Am I Adam Lanza?

This article was originally posted at my site. Only some of my articles are posted on SBC Voices. If you would like access to all of my articles, you can follow my feed here. You can also connect with me on TwitterFacebook, and Google+.

A Teenage Adam Lanza

“Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God” (Heb. 3:12).

Search your heart oh friend

Hear this stanza

Repent of your hidden sin

Bring to Justice the Adam Lanza within

The loudest statement made by Adam Lanza on December 14, 2012  was, “Jesus is not Lord!”  Although he did not verbalize this statement, he emphatically affirmed it by murdering his mother at her home and 26 other people (6 adults and 20 young children) at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.  Then he further rebelled against his Creator and Sustainer by taking his own life.  

Search your heart oh friend

Hear this stanza

Repent of your hidden sin

Bring to Justice the Adam Lanza within

This rebellion against the rule and reign of Christ is taking place all around us as men, women, and children unashamedly sin against their Creator.  The question is whether or not you and I have the same rebellious heart (although we may express our rebellion differently), that led Adam Lanza to commit this horrid act of rebellion against God and His Word.  

Search your heart oh friend

Hear this stanza

Repent of your hidden sin

Bring to Justice the Adam Lanza within

The sad reality is that every time you and I sin, we rebel against the Lordship of Christ.  The answer for such rebellion is that we must continually repent and affirm the gospel, pursuing holiness with all our might while pleading the blood of the King of kings and Lord of lords alone!  In other words, we must continually bring the Adam Lanza within to Justice (God) by trusting in Christ, forever reminding ourselves that our sins have been judged in Christ.  Therefore, although we are guilty of emphatically proclaiming “Jesus is not Lord,” on the cross God treated Christ as if He was the rebel so that the rebellious could go free!  How will you respond?  Will you bring to Justice the Adam Lanza within?

Search your heart oh friend

Hear this stanza

Repent of your hidden sin. . .

This article was originally posted at my site. Only some of my articles are posted on SBC Voices. If you would like access to all of my articles, you can follow my feed here. You can also connect with me on TwitterFacebook, and Google+.


  1. Frank L. says

    As we bring to justice the Adam Lanza within, I hope we will understand that no act, however heinous, condemns one to eternal damnation.

    I’m a bit uncomfortable pronouncing eternal judgement on Adam Lanza as horrible as his act is.

    I think as Jared points out, we are all subject to same condemnation for our sin as Adam Lanza will be for his sin. It probably is not popular to say, but I feel a great sense of sadness not only for those that were murdered, but for the murderer.

    How troubled his soul must have been.

    Having worked with several parents of mentally ill children, I know it is a very hard road for all — and, in my cases at least, it never works out very well.

    How I hope and pray for the healing of all the lives that were touched by this tragedy.

    • says

      “I hope we will understand that no act, however heinous, condemns one to eternal damnation.”


      Every act of sin, however innocuous, condemns one to eternal damnation… Apart from Christ, we are condemned already.

      “…we are all subject to same condemnation for our sin…”

      That’s something worth a wee bit of careful speculation. I would not want to go into the “levels of Hell” idea, but there are indications in the New Testament for degrees of punishment on the unrighteous just as there are degrees of reward on the righteous. Ie, Jesus speaks of the one who does not know his master’s will receiving a light beating versus the one who knows (and doesn’t do it) receiving a severe beating (Luke 12:47-48). We cannot draw too much from that, but it offers a strong enough hint that we should be careful about saying that God’s wrath is the same against every sinner.

      • Frank L. says

        Chris, I am operating under the assumption that there is only one unpardonable sin.

        I am just not comfortable “spiritualizing” this tragedy beyond acknowledging we live in a terribly twisted world. But, I don’t want to “speculate even a wee bit” as to what the shooter’s relationship is or was with God.

        I’m not altogether sure what Jared is getting at exactly, but I think this post is going to be subject to a very circuitous path to understanding.

        I’ve probably said too much already. I’m going to exile myself from this thread.

        • says

          “I am operating under the assumption that there is only one unpardonable sin.”

          Ahh, I see and agree – even a mass shooting of this sort is not an unpardonable sin and does not ensure the person would never be saved.

          That said, being a firm believer in “you will know them by their fruit,” the fruit of Adam Lanza gives us a pretty clear picture of his soul at the time that he took his own life.

        • says

          Frank, I appreciate the interaction.

          I didn’t argue anything about the spiritual destination of Lanza. My purpose was to argue that what he did was evil, yet what we do is evil as well. We all must run to Christ for salvation.

  2. William Thornton says

    I am with Frank and find myself thinking that there is something tawdry about using this kid’s name and photo to make a point.

    • cb scott says

      I must confess that I was a little cowardly and did not comment on this when I first read it. I wanted to address it as have William Thornton and Frank L. However, I did not due to my tendency to hit things like this really hard with critical comments.

      Something I do notice here, is that Frank L. and William Thornton are older and have years of ministry experience dealing with the brokenness of the human soul and the factors that seem to worsen its conduct from time to time. Therefore, they see this from a different perspective than does the younger author of this post.

      I too think there is a lack of understanding on your part here Jared Moore and I think you should pull this post, because there is, as William Thornton stated, something a little cheap about it right now. Maybe it is just too early. I don’t know, but I think you should pull this one.

      • says

        CB, I appreciate your comments. I, however, disagree. Dave is free to pull the post if he thinks it’s as you and Thornton describe.

        I haven’t been in ministry (12 years) as long as you two or Dave. I never will be either unless all of you go to be with the Lord and I continue to minister here. You’ll always be able to say, “I think if you had been in ministry as long as I have, you wouldn’t write this or that.” The problem is that this is a “to the man” logical fallacy. It would be more helpful to me if you dealt specifically with what you disagree with in the article. Saying, “You’re too young to know better” doesn’t help me because I’ll always be younger than you and there’s not a thing I can do about it. However, if I’ve written an ungodly, wicked, unkind, etc. post, then point it out and help me. Saying, “I don’t know, but I think you should pull this one” is arbitrary and doesn’t help me at all.

        Virtually the entire world agrees that what Lanza did was evil. We are evil as well. We all need Jesus. That was the point of this article. I don’t understand how it’s cheap. Tell me what about the article was cheap? Lanza isn’t the only one who rebelled against Christ, we do as well. We must run to Christ for salvation.

        • cb scott says

          Jared Moore,

          I will make this comment and then let it go.

          Your logic is flawed about the age thing. My point is that as one has a greater and varied degree of experiences in ministry, he sees more of the evil of the human soul as it is manifested due to several factors.

          You will, if you continue in ministry to more people, begin to understand, from a different perspective, just how lostness affects each individual differently. Of course lostness is common to all people, but our individual experiences drives the outcome of our depravity.

          Another point is that you are not Adam Lanza. I am not Adam Lanza. There is no such thing as the “Adam Lanza within.” There is a Jared Moore within. There is an cb within. There is a Dave Miller within. Having such evil within is enough without taking on the brokenness of Adam Lanza.

          Finally and probably most importantly in my mind, I think it is a little early to use this guy as you have. That is the reason I think you should pull it down.

          I am not trying to insult you, Jared Moore. And maybe it is just me, but I just think you should pull this post down.

          • says

            I agree with CB on this one. If you’ve been in ministry for years, 2 Corinthians 5:17 should, by now, reveal to you that you are indeed a new creation. I think it says what it means and means what it says.

            You have Jared Moore within and I must say you have the Holy Spirit within. You most certainly do not have Adam Lanza within, and capitalizing on an event like this and his name to make a point is the editorial equivalent of a cheap shot. Talk about warring against the flesh, equate it to Paul’s struggles, make any of the comparisons that the Word makes, to the “works of the flesh”, but don’t accuse anyone of having an “Adam Lanza” within.

  3. Bruce H. says

    This year, the truth of a verse, Romans 3:31, jumped off the page. When I trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ I establish the law that condemns the sinner. When I got saved, when others get saved and when I lead someone to Christ, I further confirming the law that condemns the lost. I am one more witness to the truth and that is used by the prosecution against the lost. I see men differently now. I pity Adam for some reason, yet, his offense offends me at the same time.

    “Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”

    Tell me if I am wrong in how I see this verse.

    • says

      Bruce, it has some merit, but Paul’s main point is that we are justified apart from the law. In regard to our justification, it is abolished and does not speak to us. However, it informs our sanctification in our endeavor to love Christ and please the Father.

  4. says

    Jared, just stopped by to mention that you are a heretic. As Christians, we have no “Adam Lanza within.” That’s a bunch of baloney. Not only is the old us dead, we do not return to the cross for forgiveness of sins by re-“affirming the gospel.” Christ made it clear in John 13 that repentance as Christians is not the same repentance that “washed” us. What you propagate here is a New Calvinist progressive justification. It should be far from you to judge Adam L. I would instead look hard in your own backyard lest he inter heaven before you do.

    • says

      Paul, thanks for stopping by. You think I’m a heretic?

      I’m advocating progressive sanctification, not progressive justification.

      Also, where did I judge Adam Lanza? I said nothing of his eternal destination.

      • says


        You most certainly are propagating progressive justification:

        1. Our condition is not changed–so we need to continually *bring our sins to justice* by the blood: “The question is whether or not you and I have the same rebellious heart (although we may express our rebellion differently), that led Adam Lanza to commit this horrid act of rebellion against God and His Word. ”

        2. “The answer for such rebellion is that we must continually repent and affirm the gospel, pursuing holiness with all our might while pleading the blood of the King ”

        The pleading for the blood in sanctification for our sins is NOT progressive justification???

        3. If we are just as sinful as we were before we were saved–that in itself propagates a need for continued salvation. The need is the same whether we are lost or saved, hence, “the same gospel that saved you also sanctifies you.” And, “We must preach the gospel to ourselves everyday.”

        • says

          Paul, It is by the blood of Christ that we are justified and sanctified. We pursue holiness while constantly depending on the blood of Christ alone for our salvation and sanctification. We must make our calling and election sure; we must make sure we don’t have an evil, unbelieving heart. We look to Jesus the founder and perfecter of our faith.

          Paul, if I tell you what I believe, and you say, “No, you believe what I say you believe,” our conversation will go nowhere. You are not representing what I’ve written accurately; nor are you representing the numerous “New Calvinists” you call heretics accurately.

          • says


            What you say you teach is not the standard. The truth is the standard. You say plainly that progressive sanctification is by the blood of Christ. So, are not saying that the justifying blood is the source of our sanctification?

          • says

            Paul, what you say is not the standard, the truth is the standard. The justifying and sanctifying blood of Christ is the source of our sanctification. The Holy Spirit gradually conforms us to Christ.

            Are you saying that the finished work of Christ is not the source of our sanctification?

          • says


            What anybody says is the standard if it agrees with truth. So, am I saying, “that the finished work of Christ is not the source of our sanctification?” YES JARED, that’s exactly what I am saying. How is a finished work the source of what’s progressive? This was Paul’s specific beef with the Galatians. Justification is not the source of sanctification–the two are separate. This was Dr. Jay E. Adams’ specific argument against the contemporary father of New Calvinism, Dr. John Miller (Sonship Theology) in his book, “Biblical Sonship: a Biblical Evaluation.”

          • says

            Paul, I’m not saying that justification is the source of sanctification. You’re saying I’m saying this regardless what I say. Offer your position from Scripture. Tell us what the source is for sanctification.

          • says

            In chapter three of The Gospel Mystery of Sanctification, Walter Marshall wrote in 1692 – hardly a new Calvinist – the following.

            One great mystery is that the holy frame and disposition, by which our souls are furnished and enabled for immediate practice of the law, must be obtained by receiving it out of Christ’s fullness, as a thing already prepared and brought to an existence for us in Christ and treasured up in Him; and that as we are justified by a righteousness wrought out in Christ and imputed to us, so we are sanctified by such a holy frame and qualifications as are first wrought out and completed in Christ for us, and then imparted to us.

            And in chapter eight:

            True gospel faith makes us come to Christ with a thirsty appetite, that we may drink of living water, even of His sanctifying Spirit (John 7: 37, 38), and cry out earnestly to save us, not only from hell, but from sin, saying, ‘Teach me to do Your will; Your Spirit is good’ (Ps. 143:10), ‘Turn me, and I shall be turned’ (Jer. 31:18); ‘Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right Spirit within me’ (Ps. 51:10). This is the way by which the doctrine of salvation by grace necessitates us to holiness of life, by constraining us to seek for it by faith in Christ as a substantial part of that salvation which is freely given us through Christ.

          • says


            The “blood” represents Christ’s death on the cross for our justification. We were justified by it. You said that we are both justified and sanctified by His blood: “Paul, It is by the blood of Christ that we are justified and sanctified.” How can you now say that–that’s not what you are saying? But to answer your question: the new birth now powers our progressive sanctification, NOT THE OTHER.

          • says

            Paul, the blood represents Christ’s death on the cross for our justification AND sanctification. We live by faith in the Son of God (Gal. 2:20). We are ever dependent on His finished work. The list of Scripture can go on and on. I’m saying that the work of Christ is the source for both our justification and sanctification, not that our justification is the source of our sanctification.

            So, tell us what you believe is the source of our sanctification if not the work of Christ.

          • says

            The blood on the cross accomplished our justification. Period. That’s why Jesus said “It is finished.” As I recall off the top of my head, that was “teleo” .. carried out, finished, fulfilled. That marks us as set aside for service but does not prepare us for service, which is why sanctification is an ongoing process, meaning it was not finished at the cross. It’s done by the Holy Ghost via discipleship.

          • says


            How can you say you don’t fuse the two together when you posited Galatians 2:20 to make your point about faith alone for sanctification? Though the text doesn’t speak of sanctification, you say that “the life I now live” speaks to sanctification while the context of the passage is clearly justification. How can this be Jared?

          • says

            Paul, my point is that the source is the same not that justification and sanctification are the same. We are progressively sanctified by pursuing holiness while possessing faith in Christ.

            Once again, no one is saying that we are sanctified by our justification. We live by faith in the Son of God. We do not look within for our sanctification, we look to Christ alone.

        • says


          “So, tell us what you believe is the source of our sanctification if not the work of Christ.”

          NOT His finished work on the cross, of course, He works in our sanctification through the Holy Spirit, but the DOES NOT = “preaching the cross to ourselves everyday” because we still need to be justified by it.

          • says

            Paul, I don’t think you can separate the Holy Spirit’s work in our hearts from the work of Christ. No one I’ve seen is arguing that we must continually be justified. You’re building up and tearing down a strawman.

            You need to be careful calling your brothers heretics. Instead, you should exercise grace in trying to understand what they’re saying before you respond. I’m not arguing what you say I’m arguing.

      • says


        Furthermore, you say in the post that Christian sin must be continually brought to justice by the blood. That’s not progressive justification? It also makes the law the present affirmation of our just standing when the Scriptures plainly say that we are justified apart from the law. Here is waht you wrote: ” In other words, we must continually bring the Adam Lanza within to Justice (God) by trusting in Christ…How will you respond? Will you bring to Justice the Adam Lanza within?” I mean, are you saying that you were not using “justice” in a justifying way? Please explain.

        • says

          Paul, I meant it exactly as Heb. 3:12 describes. We must continually trust in Christ alone for our salvation, making our calling and election sure as we live by faith in the Son of God. We are justified by His blood at the moment we first believe, and if we have been justified, we will continue believing. We must indeed confess ourselves sins while enjoying His forgiveness, not for justification but sanctification. We bring our sins to Justice (God) forever acknowledging our sins have been judged in Christ. Once again, we live by faith in the Son of God. The same blood that justifies us also sanctifies us.

          I’ve asked you repeatedly to explain your position. You do not believe Christ’s work is the source of our sanctification, so what is?

          • says


            “I’ve asked you repeatedly to explain your position. You do not believe Christ’s work is the source of our sanctification, so what is?”

            Yes I have. The new birth is the source of our sanctification, not the blood which you use to replace, “justification.” Your New Calvinist position is a continual offering of the works of Christ in sanctification by faith alone. Southern Baptists have never believed in sanctification by faith alone because the law is still a standard for our justification in sanctification.

            Key is your statement: ” We must continually trust in Christ alone for our salvation, making our calling and election sure as we live by faith in the Son of God.” That’s not how the Scriptures say we make our calling and election sure (SPEAKING OF ASSURANCE). It states that we are to ADD to our faith for that purpose–it’s not by faith in the works of Christ ALONE that we gain assurance.

            It’s not keeping our own salvation by faith alone. Our faith is already KEPT. It’s leaving the foot of the cross and aggressively perusing the fruits of righteousness.

          • says

            Paul, so what does the Apostle Paul mean when he says, “I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal. 2:20)? All I’m advocating is that Christians live by faith in the Son of God. We pursue holiness, putting on the new man, while constantly possessing faith in the Son of God.

            We are not sanctified by our works. Also, you can claim that Southern Baptists have “never” believed what I’m advocating, but I would argue that the majority believe like I do.

            We gain assurance by looking at the Holy Spirit’s fruit in our lives. This truth CANNOT be separated from living by faith in the Son of God. You cannot separate the Spirit’s work from the Son’s work. Christ’s work is the basis of both our justification and our sanctification. We pursue holiness while possessing consistent faith in Christ. We cannot separate the two. You seem to be separating the two.

          • says

            You want my position on what New Calvinism specifically teaches? Here is the concise statement from the think tank that launched New Calvinism in 1970. Graeme Goldsworthy was one of the core four of this think tank:

            After a man hears the conditions of acceptance with God and eternal life, and is made sensible of his inability to meet those conditions, the Word of God comes to him in the gospel. He hears that Christ stood in his place and kept the law of God for him. By dying on the cross, Christ satisfied all the law’s demands. The Holy Spirit gives the sinner faith to accept the righteousness of Jesus. Standing now before the law which says, “I demand a life of perfect conformity to the commandments,” the believing sinner cries in triumph, “Mine are Christ’s living, doing, and speaking, His suffering and dying; mine as much as if I had lived, done, spoken, and suffered, and died as He did . . . ” (Luther). The law is well pleased with Jesus’ doing and dying, which the sinner brings in the hand of faith. Justice is fully satisfied, and God can truly say: “This man has fulfilled the law. He is justified.”
            We say again, only those are justified who bring to God a life of perfect obedience to the law of God. This is what faith does—it brings to God the obedience of Jesus Christ. By faith the law is fulfilled and the sinner is justified.
            On the other hand, the law is dishonored by the man who presumes to bring to it his own life of obedience. The fact that he thinks the law will be satisfied with his “rotten stubble and straw” (Luther) shows what a low estimate he has of the holiness of God and what a high estimate he has of his own righteousness. Only in Jesus Christ is there an obedience with which the law is well pleased. Because faith brings only what Jesus has done, it is the highest honor that can be paid to the law (Rom. 3:31).

          • says

            Paul, this proves nothing other than Goldsworthy affirms that we are immediately justified and sanctified by faith in Christ. The Bible clearly says both. What does Goldsworthy say about progressive sanctification?

          • Faith says

            The work was already done- it is up to the individual to ask and receive. The believer then is filled with the Holy Spirit and sealed- forever. There is no continual work of Christ- this again is the same thing as the Catholics believe that there is perpetual justification (Christ working continually). The blood of Christ was shed- DONE.
            We do not have to keep looking to the cross, unless as a reminder of what He did.
            The one you should have a problem with is him:
            John Piper
            “Present justification is based on the substitutionary work of Christ alone, enjoyed in union with him through faith alone. Future justification is the open confirmation and declaration that in Christ Jesus we are perfectly blameless before God. This final judgment accords with our works. That is, the fruit of the Holy Spirit in our lives will be brought forward as the evidence and confirmation of true faith and union with Christ. Without that validating transformation, there will be no future salvation.”

          • says

            Faith, you continue to argue against what I’m NOT arguing. No one here is arguing for progressive justification or infused grace (Catholics). In your quote of Piper, he isn’t arguing that either.

          • Faith says

            See Jared I know the “double speak” with the SBC now- because what you said in many of your posts is opposite of what your original post is stating- this is why we have commented on it. Its that “you better be sure because if you don’t”……
            I have seen it over and over all through my life- in Fundamental Baptist as well as in the Reformed- it pretty much choked any joy I had as a Christian out. Thankfully the gentle and convicting hand of the Holy Spirit corrected me and told me I was free. I am just a little ole’ housewife- nothing much to give except my love to Christ. When I sin- He convicts or uses others to convict (but usually the others that convict have a love for me as well and want to see me closer to the Lord)- there is no condemnation but to repent and move on. Here is the difference- I WANT to serve Christ, I DESIRE to serve Christ. This is turn moves me to listen and grow – sanctification. Sometimes we listen and then other times we don’t. When we don’t and keep in our sin we will not receive the rewards in heaven waiting for us.

          • says

            Faith, I have said nothing in my comments that contradicts what I said in the original post. It’s both/and, not either/or. We are positionally justified and sanctified by the blood of Christ, AND we are progressively sanctified by the Holy Spirit’s work in our lives in light of the blood of Christ as we pursue holiness while exercising faith in the Son of God alone.

          • says


            Ok, ya, I misrepresented Piper. So, now that that’s out of the way, let’s try this question again:
            “Let’s have agreement on one thing: you will right here reject the assertion that we will stand in a future judgement that will determine our just standing. Right? “

          • says

            Paul, you’re misrepresenting Piper. That’s not what he’s saying. So, your question is not tied to Piper. So, yes, Piper and I both deny that. Piper is saying that if there is no union with Christ, there are no validating works (progressive sanctification). If there is no progressive sanctification, it’s because there’s no justification. Once again, you’re misrepresenting Piper.

            Paul, if you refuse to be gracious in trying to understand those you interact with, then you’re lacking fruit of the Spirit.

        • says


          1. What did Paul mean in Galatians 2:20? A word for justification appears 6 times between verses 15 and 21. 3:1-3 makes it clear that the context is works salvation by attempting to earn justification through a work that is finished. Verse 3 means literally, “are you reaching your end (glorification) by effort.” This coincides with Romans 8:29, 30. Paul’s argument is that they are trying to work towards a goal that is already finished. When we were unsaved, we were in the flesh and under the law–now we are dead to the law and the life we live in the flesh is sustained by Christ because the flesh involves law. Our justified state is by faith alone, and we are dead to the law. But you make this apply to sanctification as well. “Sanctification” is a biblical word and appears nowhere in this text, but “justification” does no less than 6 times. The crux of Paul’s point is verse 21: “I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.”

          So then, if sanctification is in these verses, then we cannot make an effort to keep the law in sanctification. We are also dead to the law in sanctification in the same way we are in justification. Therefore, we are dead in sanctification in the same way we are in justification, and Christ must keep the law for us in sanctification. And granted–that is the New Calvinist doctrine.

          2. “We are not sanctified by our works.” Yes we are. Paul said that God’s will was our sanctification, and then described it as “abstaining” from…. Our enabled efforts in sanctification by all means does sanctify us (a setting apart from the world), and our end judgement will be for rewards, not to judge “the ground of our justification.”

          3. “Christ’s work is the basis of both our justification and our sanctification. We pursue holiness while possessing consistent faith in Christ. We cannot separate the two. You seem to be separating the two.”

          Yes, absolutely, I am separating the two. As can be seen by your above statement, if the two are fused together, I must maintain my justification in the same way that is was saved. This makes faith a work for the purpose of keeping our salvation. This is why JC Ryle stated the following: “But the plain truth is, that men will persist in confounding two things that differ–that is, justification and sanctification….What God has divided let us not mingle and confuse.”

        • says

          YOU GO GIRL. Dead on. We will NOT stand in the judgement that Piper speaks of. Also, if justification and sanctification are fused together, you are right again–WE ARE NOT FREE from the law.

        • says


          Let’s have agreement on one thing: you will right here reject Piper’s assertion that we will stand in a future judgement that will determine our just standing. Right? You disagree with that don’t you?

      • says

        “Paul, I don’t think you can separate the Holy Spirit’s work in our hearts from the work of Christ. No one I’ve seen is arguing that we must continually be justified. You’re building up and tearing down a strawman.”

        Jared, you said that OUR sins needed to be sought out and justified by Christ in the present through the blood. That’s what you You said. Words mean things.

        • says

          Paul, where did I say that our sins must be sought out and justified? I didn’t you say it; you won’t find it. I said that our sins must be brought to Justice (God), not justified. There’s a difference. Once again, you need to take the time to actually understand what people are arguing before you throw around words like “heretic.”

    • says


      Walter Marshall does not share the exact same beliefs as New Calvinists? BALONEY! He is one of their main sources. Walter Marshall also held to the idea that Christ’s obedience while he was on Earth was imputed to our sanctification so that the law would be satisfied until our glorification. This is known as the “Passive” obedience of Christ for our justification and His “active” obedience for our sanctification. Even mainline Calvinists regard this as heresy.

  5. says

    Jared, I understand what you are doing using Adam Lanza as an analogy for us as sinners and that we are no less a sinner than he. It reminds me of Jesus saying, “Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem? No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.”
    (Luke 13:4-5 ESV)

    I don’t read you as literally claiming we have an Adam Lanza within ourselves. I’m not sure why anyone would think you were writing literally on that point.

    I also understand, I think, what some of our most seasoned brothers are saying about the timing of using Lanza as an example. Using Lanza as an example may never be acceptable for some though I don’t think that has been argued here so far.

    What I have learned from my 71 yr. old mentor is to be more sensitive to brothers and sisters around us that may be weaker or simply hurting. As we learn to recognize how to speak to the hurting and/or offended we will understanding how to be affirming even while speaking to their sin and calling for repentance. (These are some of my personal convictions lately, but they may not speak to you in exactly the same way.)

    Finally, there is something about lumping believers and unbelievers together when calling for repentance while pointing to the gospel that bugs me. Believers and unbelievers are not on the same plain spiritually. As a believer, I have no qualms being reminded daily of the gospel.

    However, some of us Reformed minded folks have a tendency to look so much at our sin that we are robbed of the joy found in Christ. I know how wicked my thoughts can be; they are one inch from being turned into actions except by God’s grace. I also know that my Adam Lanza has been redeemed and renewed. I don’t walk around under the cloud of the old Adam, but under the freedom in Christ in whom I am no longer condemned.

    Sorry for the long comment. I supposed some of my carbonation got shaken and I popped the top a little. :)

  6. Dave Miller says

    I don’t really take issue with what Jared said, though it is an emotionally-charged atmosphere in which to make such a comparison.

    But, I might make the following comparison.

    If I understand it right, we all likely have cancer cells roaming hither and yon in our bodies. Cancer is in all of us.

    I have a large crater on my right cheek right now – the result of a skin cancer I had removed a couple of weeks ago. It is not life-threatening, but it is an ugly mark on my otherwise stunningly handsome face.

    I also have a close friend whose wife is in the final stages of cancer – this will almost certainly be her last Christmas.

    So, in one sense, we all have the makings of cancer. And, until a couple of weeks ago (hopefully) I had a cancer. My friend’s wife also has cancer.

    So, in one sense, it is all the same disease – cancer. But in another, it is very different.

    I have the same sin and guilt that resides in all of mankind. But that same sin nature does not express itself the same in each of us.

    So, the answer to the question of your title could be both a yes and a no.

    • says

      Amen Dave. There’s a sense where the answer is “Yes,” and a sense where it is “No.” I am not who I once was, but I am not who I need to be.

  7. Truth Unites... and Divides says

    Jared, your post is fine. It’s instructive for those who have ears to hear.

    Much thanks.

  8. Christiane says


    “And I live, now not I;
    but Christ liveth in me.
    And that I live now in the flesh: I live in the faith of the Son of God,
    Who loved me,
    and delivered Himself for me.”
    (Galatians 2:20)

    The journey we are on brings us to die with Christ and to rise with Him. This is the Christian process of transformation, but such a strange transformation and painful.

    At this journey’s end, we will ‘no longer’ be who we were before we followed Him . . .

    “Christ lives within us,
    a Seed that must be sown,
    we are born in the pattern of God’s love,
    we die to rise with The Lord”

  9. Bruce H. says


    Your post has brought a good comparison of our sin, even one, against the Holiness of God. I think we would do better comparing the sins of this monster to our sins against our Holy God. It wouldn’t have the same affect comparing those in history who have done similar at this point. We need the freshness of the offense to be able to sense the horror of our sins in order to properly evaluate them and repent. God is infinitely more offended by our sin than we were when we found out about Adam Lanza.

  10. Faith says

    First of all, before bringing out Adam Lanza as a whipping boy one needs to get the facts straight. This man was mentally ill- he had Aspergers and personality disorders from early on in his childhood. He was not given the proper care early on by his parents and dealt with. So to bring him out as a poster child for our own sin is a little premature and not kosher.

    Secondly, we are NOT Lanza’s within; we are REDEEMED within as those who trusted in Christ for our salvation. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit and we are to focus on His righteousness and whatsoever is “true, noble, just, pure, lovely, GOOD REPORT” think on these things.

    Philippians 3:13-14
    12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

    15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,[b] let us be of the same mind.

    We are to look to the righteousness of God and walk – not always look at sin. This is one of the reasons I left the church and became a “none” because of the oppressive burdens the pastors are putting upon the congregation on the constant focus of sin and the bondage we are still under, instead of focusing on the power of the Holy Spirit to change us in sanctification.

    • says

      Faith, thanks for commenting.

      We are not fully glorified yet. Yes, we are positionally justified and sanctified, but not metaphysically sanctified. We must pursue holiness while always depending on the finished work of Christ alone for our salvation and sanctification. The Spirit is at work in us conforming us to the image of Christ. God’s special grace through the blood of Christ is the beginning and end of our salvation.

      Also, if I understand you correctly, that you’re not part of a local body of believers, then you’re sinning against God. We cannot forsake the assembling together with other believers. We are also told to use our gifts to build up other believers which also implies we need to benefit from the gifts of other believers. If God gifts pastors to preach, then you and I need these gifts to build us up. There’s numerous Scripture that speaks of the united body of Christ. We do not have the option to “leave the church” as you say you have done.

      • Faith says

        There you go – looking at the speck in my eye. I left because of the abuse and false teaching that is so rampant in the American church, which is also what the Bible teaches us to do. I left because of Calvinism, Arminianism and any other….ism that crosses my path. I left because of the programs, conferences, marketing strategies and celebratism of pastors. I left because of the abuse of the flock and the fraud that the leaders of the church won’t deal with. I left because the church left Christ. By the way, we are the Bride of Christ, not the church building or the pastor. I regularly get together with other Christians to have Bible study and we are in the process of finding a church, so it would not benefit you to judge.

        • says

          Faith, the Word of God will judge you. When you tell me that you’ve “left the church,” then expect me to give you Scripture. There’s no doubt that churches are not what they should be, but neither are you nor I. You affirm an “ism” already, even if it’s unnamed. Furthermore, pastors, just like every other believer, are given to the church for its edification. Find a body of believers, and help build them up by using your spiritual gifts there. If you only join a mature church, you will never help an immature church become mature.

          • Faith says

            The problem is Jared the pastors are not realizing they are just like any other believer – a servant. I have only met one humble pastor who would never engage in the kind of rhetoric I see today- he definitely was and is a servant. It is interesting that you say that the Word of God will judge me for not going to a “particular” church of your interpretation- where may I pray that this is said in Scripture? Can not church be in a home or any building? You have stated that I have left church- what gives you that judgment of me and my family? These are the same statements given by the Catholic Church or cults when someone leaves- you are in judgment by God or you in danger of hell. There is no love or compassion in your response; there is no care. You and others do not look at what is going on in the church that is of a grievous nature to God- the abuse and neglect. Many of the well known pastors today are involved with themselves and their own names- books, conferences, theological dissertations, and 4000 + church attendance. Before looking at little ole’ me- start by looking at the Freemasonry that has flooded the SBC and the false doctrine of Calvinism.

          • says

            Faith, you said you left the church, then I merely repeated what you said. Furthermore, you’re not arguing against anything I’m arguing. You’re arguing against pastors who have hurt you in the past, and you’re stereotyping me based on them. This conversation has become unfruitful.

      • dean says

        Jared, I believe when most people hear sanctification they assume progressive sanctification is what is meant. Certainly that sanctification flows from the work of Christ but is not complete it is progressive. I have red that justification is Christ for us and sanctification is Christ in us. Could you elaborate on positional sanctification? In my mind it is difficult to distinguish between justification and positional sanctification. They both have to do with our standing in Christ before God.

        • says

          Dean, at the moment we first believe we are positionally justified and sanctified (set apart from sin) and made new creatures in Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit. In our Christian lives, the Holy Spirit through faith in the Son of God progressively sets us apart (sanctifies) from sin and this wicked world. The just live by faith in the Son of God.

    • Bruce H. says


      I agree with Jared. If you refuse to function within the body of believers, with the excuse you have given, you are imbalanced. The “longsuffering” with many different kinds and types of born again believers helps in the conforming to Christ process. Also, you must exercise your gift within the body in love. One part of the body cannot say to another, “I don’t need you.” That is what you are saying. You need to keep looking for a church. The God that saved you is more than able to guide you the right direction.

      I have faced more hypocrites in the church than most. There is something in me that drives me to keep looking until I find a church. I wouldn’t join a perfect church because I couldn’t use my gift to minister there. Besides that, I would contaminate it myself. I want to encourage you to use the known truth you have and learn how to administer it wisely in a church. Somebody needs your gift. See if you can get past what has affected you because it will take you down.

  11. Faith says

    To clarify- I did not say I do not sin, because we will always be sinning until we reach that day we are glorified in Christ Jesus. What I did say, however, is that both Christ and the disciples were in no way stating we must always be looking at sin because we have a High Priest that would intercede for us at all times and we can come to Him with our sin.
    1 John 5:4 states “For whatever is born of God OVERCOMES the world. And is the victory that has overcome the world- our faith.” We are already overcomers and Paul stated that if we look to the Author and Finisher of our faith He will finish what He already started in us. We are to look at the positive, not the negative.

    • says

      Faith, I think you’re straining out gnats. I’m not arguing that we should focus on our sin. We should instead confess our sins, for He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:7). We should also believe what the Bible says about our position in Christ. We can know that we are saved by observing the fruit of the Spirit in our own lives, but there is also a sense where we must “keep ourselves in the love of God” (Jude 1:21). We must believe what the Bible says about us positionally (adopted sons/daughters, co-heirs with Christ, etc.), while also believing what the Bible says about us while we’re on earth. We’re not yet glorified, and we must put off the old man and put on the new. We must pursue holiness while trusting in Christ’s blood alone for our salvation.

      • Faith says

        But Jared your above words about Adam Lanza mean something or you would not have gotten this response from others.

        Search your heart oh friend

        Hear this stanza

        Repent of your hidden sin

        Bring to Justice the Adam Lanza within

        Right here you are comparing us to the unbelieving and the wicked.
        So what do you mean about Justice with a capital “J”? And what He calls us on earth is His children as also what He calls us positionally.

        • says

          Faith, see Heb. 3:12 – “Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God.” or Jude 1:21 – “keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.” or John 15:9-10 – “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.”

          • Faith says

            Thats right Jared- an unbelieving heart. These are those of unbelief- these are those who have no faith in Christ as their Victor and Redeemer.
            Those believers who sin ARE NOT in this camp or we would ALL be in this position (for even if one does right in the eyes of others his thoughts and heart would betray him before God). This verse has to do with UNBELIEF.

  12. Randall Cofield says


    I think your post is accurate and compelling. We do tend to see our own sin as less heinous than that of others. We often fail to recognize that our remaining depravity causes us to commit egregious sin and rebellion against our beneficent Creator and Redeemer. And even when we do recognize it, we tend to “classify” those sins as less offensive to holy God than those of individuals such as Adam Lanza.

    A robust doctrine of the immutable, unapproachable holiness of Almighty God is indispensable when it comes to taking seriously the necessity of progressive sanctification. Such robust doctrine is a rare commodity nowadays…

    Perhaps this lies behind some of the push-back you are receiving on this post…?

  13. Faith says

    Romans 6:15-23

    New King James Version (NKJV)

    15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

    20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    We are not enslaved to our sin anymore and we are free from the bondages of sin. The more that is focused on sin the more as Christians we will be in bondage to it. We are now to look forward to what is good and true then to be looking continually at our sin. For whatever you think, so shall you be. We are to look to Scripture and prayer and understand that the Holy Spirit is the changer. I remember many times I would look at the sin of my spouse and children and focus on what they needed to do to be right before God- I was wrong and sinful at showing them where they were at fault. The more I chided them the more they would sin and I was wondering “why do they keep doing what I know is the right thing to do”? When we focus on sin of ourselves and others the more we WILL sin because we lose the aspect that we are already FREE to do what is of righteousness because we have Christ in us. When I stopped focusing on their sins and let Christ work in myself and them, that is when it began to change. I am not saying that we do not look at our sin and repent, we do but then we move on to what is of good report, not keep dwelling on sin.
    This kind of thinking is no different then the Catholics who focus on their sin continually and do sacraments and penance to relieve them of that burden.

  14. parsonsmike says

    Sin is a heinous and terrible affront to God.
    But many of our deepest sins, though terrible wrong choices we make, are caused by the pains and deep hurts of not only those who have sinned against us but by our own sinning.

    If you have hidden sins, understand that for whatever reason you choose to make that evil choice, that sinful act can never heal the wounds of your heart. It only makes your hurt worse. Temptation is built on a lie with some sugar on top to entice.

    And although we do do deserve condemnation for each and every sin, we who are in Christ Jesus receive no condemnation. But why serve sin? Know the truth, He will set you free. Yes eventually, but yes now. Not ever completely free from sin now, but He can free you from its mastery. He is our Lord.

    Why do you do that sin? Find out, examine yourself. Invade the dark depths of your soul, Jesus already knows you for everything is naked and open to to God.

    Is it lust? Yet you need nothing for you have God. Repent that you don’t trust Him. Cry out to Him for help, for stronger faith, for reassurance. That wife you vowed to before God is also God’s gift to you. No other woman can make your life better, or you more of a man. When temptation comes to dwell on lust, turn it into a time of truth. Thank God for your wife, for the cross, for your place in His life.

    And when you stumble, get up and repeat repentance.
    By His stripes we ARE healed. Live it.

  15. Faith says

    “And when you stumble, get up and repeat repentance.
    By His stripes we ARE healed. Live it.”

    Yes! And know that you are Free! The more freedom you realize you have the more you want it. The more you will not want to lose it (assurance, NOT justification) that you are His and you will fight to keep it (assurance, NOT justification)- this is what Paul was trying to get across to those in the church, but they kept wanting to go back to the Law instead of looking to their High Priest. Also, some sins we will keep going back to until we completely relinquish them to the care of Christ. We are not to keep looking to the cross (except as a reminder of what He did for us)- we are to pick it up and carry it in sanctification. It has already been done for us, no need to keep looking at it or going to it over and over again. This is again what Catholics do and it is a mixture of justification with sanctification.
    The problem with sin – every Christian has it; so deal with between you and the Lord and be careful before calling it out. For I find out those who call it out with a loud voice end up in it themselves more times then none.

  16. scottie says

    For goodness’ sake, have some respect & compassion for the father and brother and take down the photograph!

    • Frank L. says


      You are right on. I am so saddened by the exploitative nature of this post.

      I’ve been called out for not always being as sensitive as I should be–and rightfully so. I’ve tried to really look deep in my heart and post in a way that edifies. I know I probably continue to fail.

      But, the author of this post seems to think that it is a badge of honor to incur displeasure from fellow bloggers.

      It is a very, very sad situation and so many people are using it to advance their personal agendas and get their fifteen minutes of fame. I think of Jeremiah who declared we “don’t even know how to blush anymore.”

        • Frank L. says


          What’s not fair?

          I also am not referencing this particular post only but many like it I’ve seen on the internet and other news.

          Is it not “your” post? That would make it “your” agenda. I don’t think that is an unfair assumption. If you think you are advancing an edifying position and not “jumping on the bandwagon” with picture included, then you certainly have that right.

          I will concede willingly that your motive may be pure and your purpose well thought out, but I still disagree with your exploitation of such a terrible, terrible tragedy.

          As I said, I’ve probably said more than I should. I find it interesting that your response to those (not just me who you often simply dismiss) who see your post as “offensive,” is for you to take offense.

          I don’t want to be offensive and I’m sorry if I implied you have ill motives. I don’t believe that at all. I believe it is at best “ill-timed” and with the photo “insensitive to the family.” That is my personal opinion. I do not want to imply you are a “bad” person with “ill-motives.”

          I’ve said my piece. You take exception. Case closed.

  17. says

    I normally enjoy popping onto SBC Voices and seeing what’s being discussed, but I find this post inappropriate. I understand the point that you are making, but invoking the name and photo (which by the way, do you have rights to that photo?) of the shooter so soon after this horrific act is in poor taste. I agree with those who think this post should be taken down. I think you could make the same point in a different way and it would be better recieved.

  18. says

    Jeremiah says, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. Who can know it?” Solomon argues that there is a “madness in men” until they die. Paul nearing the end of his ministry, says, “I am the chief of sinners.” The old man and the new are locked in a life longs struggle. Even so there might be more to the sad events in Connecticut than the meets the eye. I think I hear there were a goodly number of mass murderers this year, taking the lives of some 88 people. There are now available the means to manipulate people to get them to do things they otherwise would not. Just think about subliminal seduction techniques being used to sell automobiles and other commercial products. Think of the hidden, wild figures in a whiskey glass with two ice cubes in them. According to one source that was the best selling ad one whiskey company had back in the 60s. The figures were the wild and wierd things that a man sees in this DTs, delirium tremens. Think of electronic and magnetic instruments developed to such a sophistication that they can manipulate the deep patterns of the brain…even from a distance. How handy for developing a movement against the right to bear arms (a defense against the government primarily) and the removal of that right, disarming the American populace and then the implementation of the policies to rid the world of freedom and over population, the “useless eaters” as H.G. Wells called them.

  19. Randall Cofield says

    Perhaps looking at the photo of Adam is too like looking in the mirror. He looks just like the rest of us…”normal.” He, like us, doesn’t look like incomprehensible evil was hidden in his heart…yet…it was…

    Take care, brothers and sisters, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God…as with Adam Lanza…

    The writer of Hebrews knew full-well the victory that is ours in Christ…yet he exhorts us to “take care…lest…”

    It is offensive to some to look into the eyes of a fallen fellow traveler AND the mirror of the Word…..

    Jared, the veracity of your post is vindicated by the reaction it has elicited.

    • Truth Unites... and Divides says

      “Jared, the veracity of your post is vindicated by the reaction it has elicited.”


      That’s an affirming comment.

  20. Faith says

    LOL, yes he is!– Double speak again!

    “Future justification is the open confirmation and declaration that in Christ Jesus we are perfectly blameless before God. This final judgment accords with our works. ”
    What do you call this!?

    “Without that validating transformation, there will be no future salvation.”
    What do you call this?!

    What fruit is good enough to be counted as righteous before God, may I ask?

    • says

      Faith, Piper is saying that without the validating work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, there will be no future salvation. The Bible says the same thing numerous times. Those who are saved are new creatures in Christ. We must make our calling election sure, we must make sure we do not have a heart of unbelief, etc. If we have faith in Christ, He will transform us. If there is no transformation, there was no initial justification and there (of course) will be not future salvation. Once again, no one here is arguing for progressive justification or infused grace.

  21. Faith says

    “AND we are progressively sanctified by the Holy Spirit’s work in our lives in light of the blood of Christ as we pursue holiness while exercising faith in the Son of God alone”

    What are your guidelines for how much holiness and how much faith? If you would have just stopped with this “AND we are progressively sanctified by the Holy Spirit’s work in our lives” you would have been ok, but you moved on further to AS…….. NO!! it is final once we have put our faith and trust the first time we have been forgiven and are now sealed with the Holy Spirit EVEN if we have fallen numerous times to sin. The problem is todays pastors want to put an AS or an IF….. to it.

    • says

      Faith, so, would you say that a Christian can quit having faith in Christ? Paul says he lives by faith in the Son of God (Gal. 2:2). That’s all I’m saying as well. You can continue to build up strawmen and tear them down, but you’re not arguing against a position that anyone on this comment stream, including me, holds (based on the comments so far).

  22. Faith says

    This is my final post to say what is about the most prevalent evil of the day-
    pride. If we are to say that as long as we are living holy and righteous lives then we will be sure of our calling at judgment day and one can say they are living such holy and righteous lives- what is to know about their inner heart or thoughts?- what about the pride of even declaring such a thing!? This is why we as Christians can always say we are sure because only Christ would be able to cover even those things we do in secret (such as our thoughts). We are sure because He bought us- that’s it. Whatever the individual person did whether to come to belief or not is between Him and God. To harp though on other believers about their constant sin, instead of stating they are now free from the bondage of sin and can now follow Christ in freedom, is both counterproductive and damaging. Yes, we do need to hear that we need to come to Christ for repentance, but all too often I have been hearing condemnation instead of deliverance.

    • Randall Cofield says


      Having read all of your posts here I cannot help but conclude that you completely missed the point of the blog.

      And in the process of doing so you dismissed a massive body of Scripture that instructs believers to mortify our remaining sin.

      I pray that you will reconsider your position, for your separation of yourself from the local Body of Christ indicates that you are already on very dangerous ground.

      God bless.

  23. says

    Where are the Traditionalists? Some Traditionalists complain on SBC Voices about Calvinists not holding one another accountable when they cross the line in interacting with Traditionalists, but where are the Traditionalists in holding Paul accountable? Paul has called me a heretic. Why haven’t the Traditionalists held him accountable?

  24. Faith says

    And Randall who are you to judge that I am on dangerous ground? has not your pride in this response already condemn you? This is what I am talking about with the church today- there is absolutely no form of love for the body except but to condemn. And this is what I have seen in Jared’s post- a rush to condemn the body for being in the same light as Adam Lanza. and also we do not even have the complete facts of Adam Lanza. You are right about being with the body, but do you know my life and how God is working in my life and my families life?- no you don’t. You have no clue except but to condemn and say I am on dangerous ground. You have no love in you for me or my family, so your words mean zilch and I am not quaking in my boots over your words- I know where I stand with the Lord Jesus. It is easy to condemn the body of Christ because you have control over that- just mix in guilt and the church body will roll over. Christ says “I have not come to condemn, but to save”. Oh yes I have seen this form of condemnation over the years and all it did was hurt the body of Christ not conform it to Christ. Randall where is the word “mortify” in Scripture? Sounds a lot like the Ancient Monks who “mortified” their flesh to get closer to God. I know I can come to my Savior and ask forgiveness for sin and strive to walk closer with Him- is this what you mean? I know that I do not have to continually be looking at my sin and wallow in it, but that I can continue to pray and read His Word and try to walk His way- is this what you mean?
    As Scripture says : Philippians 4:8
    “Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.”

    • says

      Just an FYI Faith. Try Colossians 3.5 and Romans 8.13. The KJV gave rise the the use of “mortify.” More recent translations use “put to death.

      • Randall Cofield says

        Thanks, Les.

        For the record:

        Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

        I think it was John Owen who said “We must be killing our sin or it will be killing us.” Something to that effect.

    • says


      It is funny that you and the other fellow are the only ones who have actually done any condemning or judging, all the while demonstrating extreme irrationality. It surprises me that others have even bothered to continue casting pearls before you. They have demonstrated great patience, showing a bit of fruit before your rot.

    • Randall Cofield says


      And Randall who are you to judge that I am on dangerous ground? has not your pride in this response already condemn you?

      Nay, Faith it is not I who judges you. Far be it from me.

      The eternal Word of God has already judged your withdrawal from the local Body of Chirst:

      He. 10:24 And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
      25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
      26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
      27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

      Will you not turn?

  25. Jarrod Kruger says


    From a pretty quick read I saw two doctrinally sound people on this whole post! And one of them was Faith!

    Thank you Faith for putting the truth up here so people that are reading have a chance to make up their mind on the sides.

    We left the building that teaches religion also, its just that most people call that church.

    And for the guy who said,” It surprises me that others have even bothered to continue casting pearls before you.”
    Thats some arrogant stuff brother, I suppose you consider that you are NOT swine!!!!!!!

  26. says

    Evidently, Paul Dohse constantly misrepresents those he interacts with. Check out this review of his book The Truth About New Calvinism:

    Some of his so-called “proof” reads like a parody. For example, the author of the review says,

    The second concerns a resolution that was offered by Tom Ascol to the Southern Baptist Convention in 2008. It urges the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention to repent of the failure among us to live up to our professed commitment to regenerate church membership. . . . p. 160. Granted, the statement would have been clearer if Ascol had inserted an “a” before regenerate church membership, i. e. a regenerate church membership. Baptist have always believed not in a sacral society but in a regenerate membership. Paul, wrongly interprets this statement to mean that church discipline regenerates. In other words he understands the word “regenerate” as a verb rather than as an adjective. Ascol was talking about the kind of church membership to which Baptist have always been committed, not to what regenerates the church membership. A man with any understanding of Baptist beliefs and of theology in general would have known this. Instead, Paul wrote, “Notice the implication that church discipline regenerates.” It is just ignorance on fire. I pointed this out to him before he went to press, but he published it anyway.

    That’s a ridiculous, unfounded interpretation of Ascol’s regenerate church membership resolution, which the SBC passed in 2008.

  27. Christiane says


    here is something worth noting:

    “Southern Baptist Disaster Relief has deployed a team of chaplains to Newtown who are trained to assist children in disasters. . . ”

    and this:

    “Bryan Finch, an SBC chaplain and the command chaplain at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy, will conduct a memorial service Wednesday for a U.S. Coast Guard member’s niece, a Sandy Hook victim.”

    I think EVERY denomination and faith community in the United States has tried to respond in some way for the people of Newtown CT, which is something that I think IS appropriate for that community of mixed faiths;
    and the SBC has also certainly been active in giving help to the grieving.

  28. says

    Dear Jared: Just wanted to let you know that what you are trying to say is what Whitefield, Moody, and Sunday, as well as some other noted ministers in church history, pointing to some felon on his way to execution for his crime, “There but for the grace of God goes (the name of the noted ministers listed as well as others).” No man is an island, so declared John Donne, Every man’s death diminishes me. And need we add every person’s sin could well be said to lie in our hearts in seed form, ready to sprout and bear fruit, if the conditions required prevail. Yes, to some degree or other, Adam Lanza is all of us. I commend you for being able to keep your head with so many missives of destruction whizzing around you.

      • Frank L. says

        Respectfully, Jared, if you had said what Dr. J said, I would not have sent any “missives of destruction” your way.

      • Truth Unites... and Divides says

        Dr. Willingham, thank you. That’s exactly what I was trying to say.

        I understood what you were trying to say upon first read. I’m rather surprised at the vehement exception that some folks took.

        • Randall Cofield says

          I’m with you on the first-read understanding, Truth.

          Not surprised at the Libertines posting here, though. This unbalanced view of our liberty in Christ is on the rise.

  29. Bill Mac says

    Jared: I think we all understood what you were trying to say. Some of us just took issue with the way you chose to say it. This young man does leave behind people who loved him and we are thinking of them. They too are grieving.

    • Frank L. says

      On another thread on the same topic it includes “jesting” and “joking.”

      I understand some do not see the problem, and maybe I’m just a tired old prude.

      I am often amazed at who agrees or disagrees with what and who. I’ve never been able to pigeon-hole anybody.

  30. says

    Perhaps I have come too late to this discussion, but for what it is worth, I would like to add my “two cents.” In my view, assuming Adam Lanza was an unbeliever, it is not true to assert that we believers are exactly as he was. In Adam, he was not able not to sin. In Christs, we are able not to sin. The same redeeming work of Christ that secured our justification also secured our sanctification. Our union with Christ means not only that Christ died for us, but also that we died with Christ to the dominion of sin. Though sin still affects every part of our being, we are no longer bound to obey it as we were bound to obey it in Adam.

    What is profoundly true is that apart from grace, we are no different from Adam Lanza. God has taken every vessel on his potter’s wheel from the same lump of sinful clay. There will never be anything for us to boast about since it is all, from start to finish, the work of God’s sovereign grace. The good news is that in Christ, we are not apart from grace.

    In regard to the idea that any “Reformed” person, ancient or modern, believed that justification is progressive in the sense that believers can become more righteous in God’s sight as we go along in the process of sanctification than we were the moment we first believed all I can say is “Hogwash.’ No reformer believes that. The very best deeds we may perform, even on our most sanctified days can never form any part of the basis of our justification before God.

    I don’t believe there is any question that believers will stand in the judgment at the last day. One may follow the Dispensationalist scheme if one likes, but there is no exegetical need to posit more than one judgment. No one I know believes believers will stand there to determine whether or not we are justified. I do believe we will at that time be openly manifiested as the sons of God.


    You are exactly right in pointing out that though the redeeming work of Christ does not continue, faith in that work must continue. True, justifying faith is persevering faith.

    And Faith,

    The Word of God in the A.V. uses the word “mortify” in Romans 8:13. It is a word that means “to put to death.”