Comments on: An Important Issue for the GCR Task Force: More Dollars for International Missions http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/ Southern Baptist News & Opinion Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:20:33 +0000 hourly 1 By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5439 Dr. James Willingham Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:02:40 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5439 Soon the people will wake up. But what will they awaken to? A nightmare or a visitation from on high? .-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..<a href="http://thirdgreatawakeningcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/climax-of-reformation.html" rel="nofollow">The Climax of the Reformation</a> =-. Soon the people will wake up. But what will they awaken to? A nightmare or a visitation from on high?
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.

]]> By: EK http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5422 EK Wed, 12 Aug 2009 02:21:53 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5422 I am a little bothered with two issues within this conversation. First, that CP designation or structure should become "leaner" meaning, less fluff. I am all for this but. . .currently is it not simply a reflection of our churches. Have our churches gotten leaner? I am not talking about leaner due to the economy but leaner in philosophy and practice. We talk about the death of the church growth movement yet many churches operate under the old principles-- build more building, add more staff, increase programs: spend, spend, spend and they will come. If we want our State Conventions and CP designations to be lean, it must start with the Church. There were many comments here that said that churches were having to cut back. Until we are willingly and intentionally sacrificing our facilities, paid professional staff, events, focuses, etc., I don't believe we are really cutting back. The second issue I have within this conversation is how we quickly pat ourselves on the backs. We are proud that during economic hard times, we are still giving 10% or more to CP. When did this become the standard of missional giving? We preachers talk about how we can tell where a person's heart is by looking at their checkbook. Is this not true for the church as well? So, look at the checkbook. We say we are on mission but does the money back that up? We can continue to do church they way we do and continue to watch our culture become more and more unchurched. When will we wake up? I am a little bothered with two issues within this conversation. First, that CP designation or structure should become “leaner” meaning, less fluff. I am all for this but. . .currently is it not simply a reflection of our churches. Have our churches gotten leaner? I am not talking about leaner due to the economy but leaner in philosophy and practice. We talk about the death of the church growth movement yet many churches operate under the old principles– build more building, add more staff, increase programs: spend, spend, spend and they will come. If we want our State Conventions and CP designations to be lean, it must start with the Church. There were many comments here that said that churches were having to cut back. Until we are willingly and intentionally sacrificing our facilities, paid professional staff, events, focuses, etc., I don’t believe we are really cutting back. The second issue I have within this conversation is how we quickly pat ourselves on the backs. We are proud that during economic hard times, we are still giving 10% or more to CP. When did this become the standard of missional giving? We preachers talk about how we can tell where a person’s heart is by looking at their checkbook. Is this not true for the church as well? So, look at the checkbook. We say we are on mission but does the money back that up? We can continue to do church they way we do and continue to watch our culture become more and more unchurched. When will we wake up?

]]> By: Robert Reeves http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5315 Robert Reeves Mon, 03 Aug 2009 18:29:14 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5315 Todd, I appreciate your heart and your understanding of this as a very complex issue. I am so pleased to see so many thinking and praying about how God would have us to proceed. I agree wholeheartedly that we need to be keeping the Geat Commission Task Force in our prayers as they begin their work later this month. I know that I don't have the answers myself but I am confident that God will direct if we keep our focus turned on Him. I think a couple of hinge points in the discussion are individuals' definition of missions and their perceptions about what the role of the Cooperative Program should be. I talk about this in a post on the Great Commission Kentucky blog if you or any of your readers would like to check it out at: http://www.greatcommissionkentucky.com/2009/08/what-is-your-definition-of-missions/ .-= Robert Reeves´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/GreatCommissionKentucky/~3/UdgoEAzppAQ/" rel="nofollow">What is Your Definition of Missions?</a> =-. Todd, I appreciate your heart and your understanding of this as a very complex issue. I am so pleased to see so many thinking and praying about how God would have us to proceed. I agree wholeheartedly that we need to be keeping the Geat Commission Task Force in our prayers as they begin their work later this month. I know that I don’t have the answers myself but I am confident that God will direct if we keep our focus turned on Him.

I think a couple of hinge points in the discussion are individuals’ definition of missions and their perceptions about what the role of the Cooperative Program should be. I talk about this in a post on the Great Commission Kentucky blog if you or any of your readers would like to check it out at: http://www.greatcommissionkentucky.com/2009/08/what-is-your-definition-of-missions/
.-= Robert Reeves´s last blog ..What is Your Definition of Missions? =-.

]]> By: Sallie http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5277 Sallie Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:15:16 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5277 Money is one reason I don't agree with IMB and NAMB being joined together under one roof. They have different issues to deal with. I think in both cases more money is needed but we will have a serious problem of both entities being short-changed if we no longer separate their functions. Sallie .-= Sallie´s last blog ..<a href="http://www.mikeandsallie.com/sallie/index.blog?entry_id=1375299" rel="nofollow">Military kids with autism need your help!!</a> =-. Money is one reason I don’t agree with IMB and NAMB being joined together under one roof. They have different issues to deal with. I think in both cases more money is needed but we will have a serious problem of both entities being short-changed if we no longer separate their functions.

Sallie
.-= Sallie´s last blog ..Military kids with autism need your help!! =-.

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5269 Dr. James Willingham Tue, 28 Jul 2009 15:20:30 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5269 I am afraid the Christians will not have much of a choice about not living like the world as it is likely being forced upon them by those determined to take advantage of the need of no workers and who will get rid of the excess pop. by what ever means necessary. What we are bsically doing is giving up our necessary involvement in the world (we are "in the world" but "not of it") and letting the others run it - a disaster for all concerned. Although even believers can and do make messes, too. There is a complexity to our situation in this life which requires us to be as subtle (wise) as a serpent and at the same time as harmless as doves. No easy task. .-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..<a href="http://thirdgreatawakeningcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/climax-of-reformation.html" rel="nofollow">The Climax of the Reformation</a> =-. I am afraid the Christians will not have much of a choice about not living like the world as it is likely being forced upon them by those determined to take advantage of the need of no workers and who will get rid of the excess pop. by what ever means necessary. What we are bsically doing is giving up our necessary involvement in the world (we are “in the world” but “not of it”) and letting the others run it – a disaster for all concerned. Although even believers can and do make messes, too. There is a complexity to our situation in this life which requires us to be as subtle (wise) as a serpent and at the same time as harmless as doves. No easy task.
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.

]]> By: Mark Lamprecht http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5268 Mark Lamprecht Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:01:25 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5268 Rick, what you said does make sense. I wonder just how wide spread that may be though. Dr. Willingham, while that too is true to an extent Christians also have to stop living like the world i.e. above their means. How much "stuff" do we need that we can't afford? It's ridiculous. .-= Mark Lamprecht´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/hereiblog/XMYK/~3/TyHGOGwK2dc/" rel="nofollow">Book Review: Religion Saves By Mark Driscoll</a> =-. Rick, what you said does make sense. I wonder just how wide spread that may be though.

Dr. Willingham, while that too is true to an extent Christians also have to stop living like the world i.e. above their means. How much “stuff” do we need that we can’t afford? It’s ridiculous.
.-= Mark Lamprecht´s last blog ..Book Review: Religion Saves By Mark Driscoll =-.

]]> By: Todd Benkert http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5267 Todd Benkert Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:33:02 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5267 The overall amount of giving is a side issue for me at this point. More important to me at this point is how much of the overall pie is spent on international missions. As far as the amount is concerned, I believe there would be a renewed commitment to CP, even by megachurches, if a more significan percentage of CP dollars were spent on international missions efforts. The overall amount of giving is a side issue for me at this point. More important to me at this point is how much of the overall pie is spent on international missions. As far as the amount is concerned, I believe there would be a renewed commitment to CP, even by megachurches, if a more significan percentage of CP dollars were spent on international missions efforts.

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5264 Dr. James Willingham Tue, 28 Jul 2009 03:07:03 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5264 A big part of the problem why giving is declining is that there are no jobs. E.g., the textile and furniture jobs here in NC were shipped South of the Border or overseas. Even so they did not need the workers here or where they sent the jobs. In 90-91 I wrote an evaluation of jobs in the future for the vocational director of a country school system based on materials she had secured at a conference. What the materals showed was that there would be no jobs in the future due to 3 reasons, namely, computerization, automation, and robotics. Around 2000 I read a book written by a fellow with a Ph.D. in Politial Science from UNC-CH. He cited a fictional work written in 1906 discussing treaties in the 1990s that would export jobs from America., nafta before nafta. But then I read another source where a man in a letter written in 1878 mentioned World War I & II in the next century. An soe people today want o reduce the worlds pop. by 5.5billion. Hmmm! But there is more. However, I forbear. Too much reality can b overwhelming. .-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..<a href="http://thirdgreatawakeningcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/climax-of-reformation.html" rel="nofollow">The Climax of the Reformation</a> =-. A big part of the problem why giving is declining is that there are no jobs. E.g., the textile and furniture jobs here in NC were shipped South of the Border or overseas. Even so they did not need the workers here or where they sent the jobs. In 90-91 I wrote an evaluation of jobs in the future for the vocational director of a country school system based on materials she had secured at a conference. What the materals showed was that there would be no jobs in the future due to 3 reasons, namely, computerization, automation, and robotics. Around 2000 I read a book written by a fellow with a Ph.D. in Politial Science from UNC-CH. He cited a fictional work written in 1906 discussing treaties in the 1990s that would export jobs from America., nafta before nafta. But then I read another source where a man in a letter written in 1878 mentioned World War I & II in the next century. An soe people today want o reduce the worlds pop. by 5.5billion. Hmmm! But there is more. However, I forbear. Too much reality can b overwhelming.
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.

]]> By: Rick Patrick http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5262 Rick Patrick Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:29:14 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5262 Friends, Perhaps a major part of the decline in CP giving can be attributed to the "consolidation" of Southern Baptists through membership transfers away from traditional neighborhood churches toward suburban megachurches. When John and Mary Baptist move their membership from a church giving 10% to the CP to a church giving 2% to the CP, the missionaries suffer an invisible reduction in funding even though John and Mary are still tithing as faithfully as ever. If the growing churches receiving members give less than the declining churches sending members we are certain to fall short. Friends,
Perhaps a major part of the decline in CP giving can be attributed to the “consolidation” of Southern Baptists through membership transfers away from traditional neighborhood churches toward suburban megachurches. When John and Mary Baptist move their membership from a church giving 10% to the CP to a church giving 2% to the CP, the missionaries suffer an invisible reduction in funding even though John and Mary are still tithing as faithfully as ever. If the growing churches receiving members give less than the declining churches sending members we are certain to fall short.

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/an-important-issue-for-the-gcr-task-force-more-dollars-for-international-missions/#comment-5225 Dr. James Willingham Sat, 25 Jul 2009 01:14:36 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1781#comment-5225 What will help is that our church (the one where we are members) and some other churches in the SBC are seeking right now to make up for the short fall in offerings for the IMB which has a large number of missionary volunteers ready to go to the field as regular missionaries, but are unable to do so due to the shortages. I think our pastors and elders have set a goal ofa $100,000. If our church and the others succeed then the missionaries ready to go can go. That will surely help the GCR Task Force by way of inspiraton. Maybe it will also speak to other SBC churches, too. God grant that it shall is my payer. After all, this is step toward a Thi Great Awakening. .-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..<a href="http://thirdgreatawakeningcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/climax-of-reformation.html" rel="nofollow">The Climax of the Reformation</a> =-. What will help is that our church (the one where we are members) and some other churches in the SBC are seeking right now to make up for the short fall in offerings for the IMB which has a large number of missionary volunteers ready to go to the field as regular missionaries, but are unable to do so due to the shortages. I think our pastors and elders have set a goal ofa $100,000. If our church and the others succeed then the missionaries ready to go can go. That will surely help the GCR Task Force by way of inspiraton. Maybe it will also speak to other SBC churches, too. God grant that it shall is my payer. After all, this is step toward a Thi Great Awakening.
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.

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