Can a “Moral” Government Produce a “Moral” Society?

This article was originally posted at my site. Only some of my articles are posted on SBC Voices. If you would like access to all of my articles, you can follow my feed here. You can also connect with me on TwitterFacebook, and Google+.

I recently read Carl F. H. Henry’s book The Uneasy Conscience of Modern Fundamentalism. Here are a few thoughts concerning applying Henry’s points to my life and ministry.

I appreciated Henry’s emphasis on the all-encompassing reality of Christ’s reign in the life of the believer.  I also appreciated his emphasis on Jesus being the answer for all that is wrong with the world.  Sin is the disease and Christ is the cure.  Every so-called answer other than Christ is a mere Band-Aid on a bleeding artery.  Only Jesus can save the man from his drugs, regenerate him, save his soul from hell, and provide him the Holy Spirit to compel him to go and sin no more.

I did not learn anything new in this work, but Henry did reveal inconsistencies in my life and ministry.  With the past Presidential election and the current emphasis on the economy in the media, it is tempting to think, even as an evangelical Christian, that we need more jobs and this can be sustained by a mere “moral” government or “moral” society.  Apart from the rule and reign of the Triune God, is there any sustainable morality?  No.  Also, will a good economy sustain man either physically or eternally?  No.  Is the chief end of man economic?  No.  I knew these answers prior to reading this book, but ashamedly, these realities were in the back of my mind instead of the front.  The truth of the all-encompassing reign of Christ will affect my ministry in how I present applying the moral commands in Scripture concerning loving one’s neighbor.  The world’s evils must be met with the gospel, not only because Christ died for the world, but because He is the only answer for the sin disease.  Sustainable good is only wrought through the Good Lord who laid down His life for evil sinners.  This reality should compel me to not only proclaim Him, but to meet the evils of the world with the justice of God’s wrath and the redemption of His Son.  There is no sustainable justice apart from God, and there is no sustainable good apart from Christ.

This article was originally posted at my site. Only some of my articles are posted on SBC Voices. If you would like access to all of my articles, you can follow my feed here. You can also connect with me on TwitterFacebook, and Google+.


    • says

      We must love God and our neighbors by holding the government accountable for sustainable justice, while realizing that only redemption through Christ brings sustainable justice. Government cannot raise men, women, and children from the dead. However, they must seek to protect their citizens.

        • says


          I’m just thinking out loud here. What comes to mind as a legitimate way for government to have a role in justice (sustainable? Not sure what is meant by that. Ultimate?) is applying verses such as these:

          “You shall not have in your bag two kinds of weights, a large and a small.” (Deuteronomy 25:13 ESV)

          Of course all the OT laws flow out of the moral law in the 10 commandments. In this case, we see specifics about not stealing by fixing the scale in a transaction.

          Modern day: The government agencies regulating gas pumps to make sure if it says you are paying for a gallon of gas, that’s what you are getting.

          But I still need to know about sustainable justice. I’ve not read the book.

        • says

          William, We apply this reality by preaching the gospel always, and by seeking to love my neighbor today. Sustainable justice will not take place until Christ rules and reigns. No government can bring it about because they cannot raise men, women, and children from the dead. Only the gospel can. However, if we love our neighbors, we’ll elect officials who protect them, and we’ll speak out against those who don’t.

          • says

            I agree with you. We have wasted a generation trying to make government into our kind of Christianity, an utter failure.

            …but I assume you vote and desire certain governmental policies and laws. If God is in the overall concept of government, the devil is usually in the details. I’m just asking how you address the specifics. You mentioned government protecting our neighbors but that was all.

            Is this not a subject that Henry addressed with some specifics?

          • Jared Moore says

            William, Henry discussed this some. He wrote this book back in the 1940’s. His main concern was that Evangelicals should be involved in loving their neighbors today while realizing Christ is the only answer for the sin disease. In the 1940’s, and even today, Fundamentalists were anti-everything in the public square: politics, academics, etc. Henry rejected the social gospel while still arguing Evangelicals should be involved in society, loving their neighbors today. Jesus will set all things right one day, but until He comes, we must preach the gospel while pursuing social transformation.

          • says

            Does ‘pursuing social transformation’ include support for government paid health care, higher tax rates for the wealthy, a livable minimum wage, affirmative action, anti-gay discriminatory laws?

  1. Jess Alford says

    Jared Moore,

    Great Post, Very thought provoking. I do have have a little difference of opinion as I do with most everyone elses opinions. I really don’t think we can hold our Government accountable for sustainable justice.

    1. There is not enough people who love God to hold anyone accountable.
    True Christianity is in the minority.

    2. When someone gets elected to office, they are going to do what is best for the party and not the Christian.

    3. Too many politicans live immoral lives, even though they say they are Christians.

    The answer is in Christ, but the answer must be carried out through the Church. Our friends and aquaintances must come to know the Lord.

    Our Church members must come to know the Lord. I have had the honor to pastor 15 churches. The old saying is true, same problems, different faces.

    We all like to think our church is the best, it’s unique, and every one is sincere and doing their very best, I make it a point to know people in the church. Alot of people , “not a few” of them live like the world with no visible difference in life styles. Friend, this type of thing is in your church too.

    Some of you may say, how dare you say something bad about my church.
    Friend read the bible.
    This my friends is the “great failure” by the Church.

  2. says

    Jared, I don’t understand how you will apply Henry’s points to life and ministry in the areas of jobs, the economy, et al. going forward.

    • says

      Mark, We preach the gospel while laboring for our neighbors’ well-being today. The world will not be set right until Christ rules and reigns, but we cannot simply sit back and wait. We are here now. We must take the gospel to the ends of the Earth while seeking our neighbor’s well-being. One example would be in trying to help the unemployed in our neighborhood get jobs. No government or person can create a work-ethic in a sinner though. Only regeneration can. That’s what I mean by “sustainable.” In order for justice to be sustainable, hearts must change. Only the gospel can bring lasting transformation.

      • says

        I agree with this in the need for the gospel but disagree in that a work ethic is not sustainable apart from the gospel. There are many who have strong work ethics because that is what they were taught and have come to believe is right as their have developed their own value system. Many times, a strong work ethic will actually be an impediment to the Gospel because people are dependent upon their own strength and ability.

        Now, if you mean a redeemed work ethic where one works as a response to God’s grace, then I agree. I agree with much of what you are saying here, actually. I just think that the gospel and redemption sets us on a course of representing God’s way in the world even among those who reject Christ. They can still do good things and because of that, we will all benefit in life here even though life here is not the end of the story.

  3. says

    Neither justice nor morality are sustainable apart from regeneration. Furthermore, a worker doesn’t have to care for his neighbor when the government isn’t watching unless he/she is regenerated by the Holy Spirit. Governments cannot do what only Jesus Christ can. Nevertheless, we must see to it for the sake of our neighbors that the government does what it was ordained to do (Rom. 13:1-7).

    • says

      I would disagree with this statement, Jared. There are many people who are moral and engage in justice apart from regeneration. They are made in the Image of God, after all. The Biblical impetus is that these acts are not salvific, however good they may be. They are not good enough. But, that does not mean that a worker will not care for his neighbor when the government is not looking apart from Christ. He often will because He retains the Imago Dei in some fashion and perhaps has developed his virtuous faculty. There are whole societies that have been built on how one might do this apart from Christ. But, that virtue does not save. It might, however, cause a worker to be honest and deal in fairness with his neighbor.

  4. says

    I wish that “just preaching the gospel” was the answer. Of course, when Evangelicals/Fundamentalists talk about “preaching the gospel” we really mean getting people into heaven when they die by converting them to faith in Jesus so their sins can be forgiven. But, is this the gospel? Jesus preached the Gospel of the Kingdom, which involved the reign and rule of God. Of course, justification is central to this, but it is not the whole gospel. The “Good News” of Jesus involves what life looks like when He is Lord and that effects everything, even economics and justice issues and the way that government functions. Of course, I cannot expect people to live out the Christ-Life without being Christians, but I don’t really mean that on every level, do I? I mean, I expect people to tell the truth and to not kill and steal even if they are not Christians, right? So then, why cannot I, as a Christian, also promote Christ-like Kingdom values in the larger society even among people who are not Christians as ways of promoting the common good and also as a way of preparing people for the reception of the Gospel through Law/Grace perspectives just like the Jews of the Diaspora did through the Synagogues and the God-fearers of the Gentile populations?

    One reason why we do not do this is because everything for us seems to be a zero-sum game. We have fallen for the old Platonic sacred/secular split and we do not know how to operate as Christians in a society where we are not in charge or where everything doesn’t go through the Church. So, we bring the “salvation” impulse to all of life and say that nothing matters until one is reconciled back to God through Jesus. In making the proclamation of the gospel of personal salvation the ONLY means of witness, we abandon the world that God has placed us in in all other respects. Because we cannot truly live this way, we give in to a dichotomy in our minds and our witness and we live in the world on the one hand as secular creatures becoming practical atheists while our spiritual life is pushed into the realm of church and private devotion.

    What if we brought the Christ-ethic into every area of life, not as a means of salvation for anyone but as a means of witness to who God is and what life in the Kingdom looks like? Perhaps our deeds could point to the Source of Life instead of being a means of salvation? I don’t understand why we remain so confused about this possibility. It is as though we are constantly reacting against Roman Catholicism on the one hand and the Liberal Social Gospel on the other and we are paralyzed in ever formulating a positive Evangelical way forward and combines both word and deed for the whole of life/society in a non-forceful way.

    By the way, terms like forgiveness, redemption, sin/debts, and Jubilee all have economic origins and connotations. God placed us in the world to interact with Him and one another and to steward His creation. One result of the world being given over to the Beast in Revelation 13 is that one cannot buy/sell without bowing the knee and taking the Mark. It seems that to abandon this area of concern so that we can focus on the “gospel” is to allow the Enemy to influence how we actually live our lives while we focus on how to get people to Heaven and have a quiet time.

    You might not (are probably not) suggesting any of this. I am simply making a case for a full engagement of Christian thought with Economics, Justice, and Social Issues as a result of our Justification from a conservative theological perspective. I have not really seen that become prominent, but I think it needs to.

    • says

      OK, what would “full engagement” consist of if you had like minded legislators and executives in office? This is the stated goal of some segments of evangelicalism.

      • says

        William, as Christians, we are not to coerce people to worship Christ or to believe in Christ, but we can promote the common good in every way possible. To say that people will not steal or kill unless they become Christian is just wrong. The Government cannot create the moral fabric needed for people to do the right thing, obviously, but it can promote what the “right thing” is by what it rewards and punishes. If the Government rewards graft or corruption or selfishness or cruelty or laziness, then it is establishing those actions as virtues. If the government punishes acts of kindness or neighborly concern or involvement, then it declares those actions to be vices. So, while the Government cannot change the human heart, it can definitely promote a sense of moral good or evil through what it affirms or denies. Christian involvement in government should be of the prophetic nature in that we affirm what is good and Godly and denounce what is evil or ungodly. We should not try to grasp for power through worldly alliances but we should, I think, give witness to the truth of how we were designed to live by our Creator. This is the way that we can promote the Law in a way that helps people to understand where God’s standard is and how we are to live. When people fall short of this standard, they better understand how they have fallen short of God’s righteousness and how they need a Savior.

        We need to do a better job of articulating the purpose and role of Christians in politics and government. It is not to “save America” or bring America back to God. It doesn’t work that way. But, it is to give a witness to what is true and good and beautiful lest we think that everything is up for grabs based on our whims. Since we have made everything about “Salvation” we don’t even know why we promote the “good” anymore since we agree it saves no one. Perhaps our witness is to be more holistic than that.

        • says

          Sounds great – Christians should promote the common good, virtue, and righteousness. There is wide disagreement among various Christians as to what constitutes these, which is why we can generally agree with each other on this until one gets to specifics.

    • Joe Blackmon says

      The “Good News” of Jesus involves what life looks like when He is Lord and that effects everything, even economics and justice issues and the way that government functions.

      No it isn’t. Simply asserting a thing doesn’t make it true.

      • says

        Yes it is. Have you ever read the Sermon on the Mount or any of Jesus’ teachings on the Kingdom of God? It involves all of life. I said “involves” not “consists of.” Obviously, salvation only comes through faith in Christ alone as savior and repentance from sin. Substitutionary atonement and Justification by Faith are central. But, if you don’t think that the “Good News” of Jesus affects all of life then go back and read what Jesus said about being Lord and the Kingdom and how God is reconciliing all things to Himself through Christ. Jesus takes over all things and redeems.

        • Joe Blackmon says

          It most certainly does not. There is nothing in the Sermon on the Mount that would suggest or imply that the governmental redistribution of wealth that you support is valid or that it’s wrong for person A to have more money than person B. There is also nothing in the Sermon on the Mount to support the idea that the mythic “gender pay gap” that you believe is such a blight on society (a) exists and (b) should be fixed by legislation. Again, asserting that Christianity involes support for left-wing political positions is something you have the right to do. Asserting that does not prove it, however.

          • Jess Alford says

            Joe Blackmon,

            Redistribution of wealth is something that right winged extremists have come up with to keep from paying taxes.

            You only here things like this on Fox News which is not a legitimate news station.

            Joe look at the good you are doing by paying taxes.

          • says

            Joe, you said,

            “It most certainly does not. There is nothing in the Sermon on the Mount that would suggest or imply that the governmental redistribution of wealth that you support is valid or that it’s wrong for person A to have more money than person B. There is also nothing in the Sermon on the Mount to support the idea that the mythic “gender pay gap” that you believe is such a blight on society (a) exists and (b) should be fixed by legislation. Again, asserting that Christianity involes support for left-wing political positions is something you have the right to do. Asserting that does not prove it, however.”

            I have no idea what you are talking about. I have advocated none of those things. I could care less what the government does or does not do. I have not advocated a liberal political or governmental position in any way, shape, or form. I have not advocated it because I do not believe in it. I am talking about the church and the mission of the church in the world to be salt and light and to do justice, love mercy, and walk humbly with God (Micah 6:8) and to prophetically work towards a society where people love and are loved sacrificially. I have no idea what role government plays in that except to keep order and to punish evil doers according to Romans 13.

            You seem to see everything through a political/governmental lens. I do not see things that way.

        • Frank L. says


          I may be misunderstanding your position but to say that Jesus “takes over and redeems all things,” seems to need some qualifications.

          I don’t see this even happening in church, much less society.

          I’m not sure Jesus is “taking over government,” but the exact opposite seems to be the case. Jesus has abandoned the American political system as far as I see it.

          I think it may be possible to “slow” the decay as the salt of the earth, but I don’t think we can reverse it.

          It seems like a paradox to me: fight to recover the Christian foundations of our society all the while knowing we will lose this fight.

          That is a hard lesson for my petty little human mind to grasp.

          • says

            Frank, I am talking about how God is reconciling the world to Himself through Christ. I am talking about how we are to pray that God’s will be done on earth as it is in Heaven and that the Kingdom would advance. I do not see the Kingdom of God as merely a spiritual disposition or something that will happen in the Millenial reign at some distant point. It is that, but it also appears wherever Jesus is Lord. Our goal as Christians is to live in the reality that Jesus is Lord over everything. I am not talking about control or coercion. I am talking about witnessing to who Christ is spiritually and ethically and physically and every time we see the will of God being disobeyed, we step in and lay our lives down sacrificially to attempt to usher in a new reality. When we see conflict, we are to try and be peacemakers. When we see people in captivity, we are to work to set them free. When we see oppression and injustice, we should step in with the truth of God’s ways of living. This is to be modeled clearly in the church and then demonstrated in society as we have opportunity.

            I am not really talking about which way the U.S. Government or society goes. As darkness grows darker, it gives us even more opportunity to be the light. I am less concerned about life being good for us right now that I am about us giving a witness as to the reality of who Jesus is and what He does.

            If anyone thinks that I am advocating any kind of governmental solution to any problem we have, I am either communicating very poorly or am being completely misread.

  5. Frank L. says

    I agree with Jared’s premises and the defenses he has offered to objections.

    I disagree, I think, with Alan’s proposal that there are any “moral or just” people apart from relationship with God.

    There are only two types of love: true love and self-love. Only a heart captured by God can exhibit anything like true love or justice.

    I will agree with Alan that there are some people who “appear” to rise very, very high on the love and justice scale, while holding agreement with Jared that no one (no society) can truly display justice apart from redemption.

    There . . . I think I covered all my bases.

    • says

      Frank, I do not dispute that there is not one who is righteous, no not one. I agree with what you are saying. I am simply saying that there are many people who are honest and caring and act justly toward their fellow man apart from faith in Christ. There is a sense of morality that exists and the Bible does not deny that. It is not salvific, of course and does not deal with the sin problem. But, its existence makes life better here. In judging a just society, that must be taken into account, I think. As Christians, we must do a better job of explaining where truth and justice comes from. We gave away too much to the Enlightenment when our goal seemed to be how to have our best possible life now so we gave into a Civil Religion. I think that there is a way to do this from a conservative Evangelical perspective that does not give away the store, so to speak.

      • Jess Alford says

        Alan Cross,

        I totally agree with you brother. I have known some very good people that was not Christians. They would even reach out to their neighbor
        and lend a helping hand. They would even teach their children the importance of living a good moral life.

        • Frank L. says

          Jess, you said, “”I have known some very good people””

          I’m surprised because normally you are a very black and white, the Bible says it so that’s the way it is.

          The Bible, Jesus in fact, chastised a man who was as you describe for believing that anybody but God was good. That man kept all the commandments from his youth and Jesus even commended him for it–save one commandment. The first commandment.

          I am not willing to use the adjective “good” to apply to any person in any meaningful way. In fact, when I do speak of a “good man” as you describe, I always add, according to the world’s standards.

          You and Alan seem to imply that even though the Bible says “no not one,” there are exceptions. I say, imply, because I don’t think you mean to directly deny the Scripture.

          I still think Jared has the more biblically defensible argument in regard to “goodness, virtue, justice, etc.” and the need for a redemptive heart.

          I conclude with saying that I would probably fit the description of the person in your post (with some abstentions and not a few objections), but I know that I am not truly good apart from any good Christ imbues to me.

          I am certainly not “good enough” to be the foundation for any true or meaningful social reform — though I’d wish it were the case.

          Man’s heart is deceitfully wicked and I just would not trust anybody to be truly good apart from Christ.

          That opens the can of worms of those who truly are not good, yet claim to be Christ’s.

          • Jess Alford says

            Frank L.

            Sir, everything you are saying is true. I will not disagree with you on it. The fact about the matter is there is people that is morally good apart from Christ. Frank, it’s nature to love one’s children,
            apart from Christ. Even animals will protect their young. There are parents who want the best for their children through love and plain old common sense.

            Why shucks, Calvinists believe there is something special about a man that is going to be called.

  6. Jared Moore says

    Alan and Jess, my concern is that apart from regeneration in Christ, justice, morality, etc. cannot be sustained. They are not multi-generational. Eventually, a child will ask “Why?” And, “Because I said so” won’t cut it. I know “good” unbelievers, but they’re borrowing from the Christian worldview in order to practice their morality. They’re on borrowed capital. Only Christ can produce a correct ordering of the two greatest commandments in an individual. A human who denies God but claims to love his neighbor, doesn’t really love his neighbor (I think you’ve agreed with this reality above).

    • says

      There is something about what Jared is saying and what Alan is saying that is so close. I can’t put my finger on it, but when they comment to each other they come across as if at odds.

  7. says

    There’s a difference between civil justice and divine justice. Christians are not to desire divine justice for sinners, but yet, we are to do our part to uphold civil justice. A year or so ago, Gov. Barbour of Misissippi (?) made the news for his many pardons for murderers. In an interview, he said that he pardoned them on the Christian principle of forgiveness and that Christianity believes in giving people a second chance. I think this was a confused and inappropriate application to civil justice of what should be limited to interpersonal relationships. God does want individuals to forgive those who sin against them; but the civil government is His minister for justice and He will hold them accountable for maintaining civil justice—not bearing the sword in vain (see Gen. 9 for the civil death penalty). As one whose father was murdered long ago, I have by the grace of God forgiven those responsible; but it would be inappropriate for me to work for their release from penalty (in actuality, this never became an issue, since they were never prosecuted).

    The government cannot achieve divine justice, but that is not its mission or ministry. It should do what God intended it to do, imperfect though it may be.

  8. Randall Cofield says


    Is it possible that those who know not Christ yet seem to have a strong work ethic/outward morality/sense of justice, etc., have such because of the legacy and influence of previous godly generations?

    In many ways we in this country seem to be living on the fast-dwindling capital deposited by our godly forebears.

    That is not sustainable, which seems to be Jared’s point.

    Only by consistently preaching and living the Gospel that redeems every area of our lives do we sustain godly principles within a culture where the redeemed and the damned coexist.

    In this sense, the Gospel is the only answer…

        • cb scott says

          I agree with Jared Moore that the world’s evils must be met with the gospel, not only because Christ died for the world, but because He is the only answer for the sin disease.

          I also believe there is an evil that must be met with extreme prejudice and swift execution.

          I believe the Second Amendment must be protected. If not, the First Amendment will cease to exist.

          I believe the Sanctity of Human life demands the continual presence and quick practice of Capital Punishment and that abortion is murder.

          I believe that a specific problem in American culture is the absence of real men taking their places in the home, church, and society as a whole.

          I believe that if you are an able bodied man who will not work, you should starve to death.

          I believe that if a man will not take care of his wife and children he is a godless wretch not fit to haul guts to a circus bear and should do jail time.

          I believe that a man who abuses women and children is looking to go to jail or hell in a hurry and we should speed him on his way to either.

          I believe the Bible is inerrant.

          I believe that the decrease in baptisms in the SBC is directly related to a lack of aggression in the practice of evangelism. I believe that pastors and churches who do not baptize converts are not fulfilling the Great Commission and should repent and get about sharing the gospel with lost people.

          I believe there are too many momma called and daddy sent sissy preacher boys in the ministry.

          I still believe in honoring the Flag and singing God Bless America. I still pray that our Conventional Armed Forces and all American mercenaries kill our enemies swiftly and in great multitudes so they can come back home alive rather than dead.

          I could go on and on, but the words “Neanderthal” and “Ingrate” might begin to take over the thinking of some of the minds who read this blog.

          Randall Cofield, are you sure you agree with me in more than just a few things?

          • Jess Alford says

            cb scott,

            Sir, your eloquent speech, and liberal thought patterns, and
            your flamboyant way of stating your thoughts never cease to amaze me.

          • Randall Cofield says

            cb scott,

            CHECK, CHECK
            Check, Check

            …and I agree that the SEC NATION CRIMSON TIDE are about to teach the Leaping Leprechauns a thing or two about smash-mouth FOOTBALL.

            So the next time I disagree with you, you now know it has nothing to do with reading comprehension or testosterone…

          • cb scott says

            Well then Randall Cofield,

            Let’s agree not to put each other in theological boxes.

            BTW, none of what I stated I believe has to do with testosterone. Testosterone comes and goes with age. A man’s convictions are burned into his soul and are manifested by his actions.

          • Jess Alford says

            cb scott,

            I was joking, if there is anything liberal about you, it would probably be the amount of blackberry jelly you put on your biscuit.

          • says

            “……if there is anything liberal about you, it would probably be the amount of blackberry jelly you put on your biscuit.”
            Jess Alford just won my vote for one of the wittiest statements of the day. I’m going to file it away for future use.

    • says

      I agree, Randall. I do not discount the importance or even primacy of PREACHING the gospel. My point is that simply proclaiming, demonstrating, and living out the implications of the Gospel of the Kingdom affects all of life – even our relationships with unbelievers. Because of common grace, there are people who do what is right even when the gospel has not been preached to them. But, of course, doing what is right does not save – only Jesus saves. Our goal is not go simply get people to do right as an end, but rather, it is how we give witness the reality of who God is. It is a way we witness to God’s will and character.

      • Christiane says

        there is also this thought, gleaned from TREVIN WAX’s post on the Bible’s unsung heroes:

        ” The Christian
        whose primary identity is Jesus Christ
        can cross cultures and boundaries
        on behalf of the gospel.”

        that is a powerful sentence from TREVIN . . . and a thought occurred on reading it, this, ‘does our OWN culture keep us from connecting with those from other cultures?’
        . . . if the answer if ‘Yes’, then Trevin’s quote has all the more meaning for Christian people, I think

        • cb scott says

          The biblical gospel can and will connect with any culture. This is true of even one of the hardest cultures — That of the religiously entrenched, pseudo-Christian lost.

          L’s if you will recognize the fact that you are a sinner before a just and righteous God, repent and believe in the biblical gospel of Christ and Christ alone, you shall be saved from the hell and eternal damnation that awaits you.

        • Joe Blackmon says

          The gospel of our Lord is the biblical gospel that CB has called you to believe. It’s the gospel men like Al Mohler, Paige Patterson, Danny Akin and Adam Harwood preach. It’s the only gospel that will save.

        • cb scott says


          The gospel is not Catholicism. Those are not synonymous concepts. There is no salvation in the sacraments. By your own admission, you are not a follower of Christ according to the biblical gospel. You are as I stated earlier, “the religiously entrenched, pseudo-Christian lost.”

          I realize that most of the guys on this blog give you a pass and get irritated at me for calling your hand on your lostness. L’s, I will not give you a pass and I do not care if I irritate anyone on this blog by never letting you forget you are not a believer and you are on your way to a devil’s hell.

          You say a lot of kind things here, L’s. You are witty and humorous at times.

          However, you also make some statements that are spawned in hell. That is due to that fact that you are lost and you are indoctrinated with Liberation Theology.

          Frankly, you are not really a strong Catholic. That is easily recognized in your theological and political liberalism. You are simply part of a large group of Americans who are the religiously entrenched, pseudo-Christian lost. Most all Catholics are in that group and the number of Baptists in that group is growing.

          Repent and believe the biblical gospel and you will be saved.

          • Joe Blackmon says

            I’ll stay with the Gospel of Our Lord.

            The gospel that CB has called you to believe is the gospel that Jesus preached and the gospel that Paul preached. It is the only gospel that will save.

        • Joe Blackmon says

          I’ll stay with the Gospel of Our Lord.

          The biblical gospel that CB has called you to believe is the gospel that Jesus preached and the gospel that Paul preached. It is the only gospel that will save.

          • Joe Blackmon says

            Hey Joe Blackmon,

            Where have you been lately?

            Are you ready for the TIDE to win number 15?


            I’ve been working a BUNCH of overtime. Finally dug myself out of that hole and I’m on vacation. I feel confident that our boys in the Crimson and White can deliver a glorious victory over the forces of evil from South Bend BUT they better bring their “A” game. We don’t need another Texas A&M style effort out of them where they take the first quarter off. I’m excited to see them play next Monday.

  9. says

    What does “sustainable” mean?
    Seems to me this is the key to whether the post’s thesis is even debatable. If it means “eternal,” there can be no disagreement among Christians. If it means “for centuries at a time” history is clear that *relatively* moral societies can exist for many centuries. Equally clear that this is a good thing to try to accomplish (Even in this fleeting life, there is no virtue in unnecessary misery and suffering. Moral societies dramatically reduce human misery).

  10. Jess Alford says

    cb scott,

    I think we have to remember that we win people through the love of Jesus Christ. We are “NOT” professional stone throwers. I think we do well to judge ourselves.

    When can a right become wrong? The answer is when we exercise our right in the wrong spirit.

    It doesn’t matter how many gifts we have as long as we have the gift of love. The Christian thing to do is exercise that love above all else. Then, we can never go wrong.

    CB you are a tough man and we need such in this world of sin. What we need most of all is that toughness seasoned with a little bit of tenderness.

    I don’t disagree with you, I admire your zeal to tell it like it is. All i’m saying is you have a special gift that needs to be used in a way that Christ would have you to use it.

    Your fellow stone thrower and professional judge wishes you a very happy new year. Don’t forget the hog jawl.

    • cb scott says

      Jess Alford,

      You have no concept of that of which you speak. L’s is lost. She is no friend to biblical Christianity. This is not the only blog she frequents. She cast false blame and spews bitter venom toward conservative Christians in many places. I have been dealing with her for years. I know her game.

      I will continue to “not give her a pass” and tell her the truth about her godlessness and dead religion.

      I am not throwing stones at her. Those of you who give her a pass and tell me to ease up on her are lobbing soft, silent death grenades at her. This pseudo peace and love garbage is worthless and only gives people a padded seat for their wagon ride to hell. So go peddle your Kumbaya song to someone else. I ain’t buyin’ any of it. And L’s certainly does not need it.