Comments on: Dealing With Legalism http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/ Connecting Southern Baptist: 516 Blogs + 246 Twitter Accounts Sat, 13 Mar 2010 22:02:05 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-7313 Dr. James Willingham Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:15:40 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-7313 The Two best reasons for doing any thing in Christan living are; 1) A desire to glorify the Lord Jesus christ. 2) Gratitude. That idea of gratitude was what God used to reach our son and call him to the ministry of the word. Just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill (If there is any such thing as a run-of-the-mill sermon)Sunday morning sermon on Gratitude, text, I Th.5:18, in Aug., 1994 reached his heart and the rest, as they say, is history. As to legalism, it can be as destructive as antinomianism. Arminians can be just as ungodly as antinomians. I know of fundamentalists who are as bad as any licentious devil that ever walked. The Christian way is one of carefulness, of balance, of a desire to please God. Some people who have a problem with drinking should not drink, and those who have freedom on the matter ought to be careful lest they leave a bad example. I think we should return to the true elments of communion, but we must also be sure to discourage that type of indulgence which leads to more and more ungodliness. Gratitude to God and the desire to glorify Him are the reasons that should control our conduct - not the opinions or the rules of others. The Two best reasons for doing any thing in Christan living are; 1) A desire to glorify the Lord Jesus christ. 2) Gratitude. That idea of gratitude was what God used to reach our son and call him to the ministry of the word. Just an ordinary, run-of-the-mill (If there is any such thing as a run-of-the-mill sermon)Sunday morning sermon on Gratitude, text, I Th.5:18, in Aug., 1994 reached his heart and the rest, as they say, is history. As to legalism, it can be as destructive as antinomianism. Arminians can be just as ungodly as antinomians. I know of fundamentalists who are as bad as any licentious devil that ever walked. The Christian way is one of carefulness, of balance, of a desire to please God. Some people who have a problem with drinking should not drink, and those who have freedom on the matter ought to be careful lest they leave a bad example. I think we should return to the true elments of communion, but we must also be sure to discourage that type of indulgence which leads to more and more ungodliness. Gratitude to God and the desire to glorify Him are the reasons that should control our conduct – not the opinions or the rules of others.

]]> By: RolandBorlan http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-7309 RolandBorlan Thu, 17 Dec 2009 01:39:23 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-7309 This topic was dealing with legalism. I have been in two churches where both pastors were really shallow in their faith. Each Sunday I left church feeling that no matter how hard I tried, I never measured up. No matter how sincere I was in the word, sharing my faith, giving, attending and so on, it was never enough. It was like there was an invisible bar that was raised. You never knew where the mark was, just that you never made it. The pastor could never tell you how to grow in the faith, just that you never measured up. That is legalism. Before it was over both churches were barely able to pay the light bill. None of the new believers stayed. More mature believers left until there was barely enough to hold Sunday School. As the SBC sometimes we preach salvation by grace, but demand it by works. I'm sorry, but I've never been able to earn my salvation. I won't get in by the "skin of my teeth" but by the blood of Jesus. I now understand Grace and that it means God isn't mad at me if I make a mistake. I confess my sin, He forgives me and I go on. I now realize that it's about my relationship with Jesus, not just the rules. I don't obey the rules in order to earn my relationship with Christ, I obey the rules BECAUSE OF my relationship with Christ. And I don't feel in bondage anymore, instead I am free. This topic was dealing with legalism. I have been in two churches where both pastors were really shallow in their faith. Each Sunday I left church feeling that no matter how hard I tried, I never measured up. No matter how sincere I was in the word, sharing my faith, giving, attending and so on, it was never enough. It was like there was an invisible bar that was raised. You never knew where the mark was, just that you never made it. The pastor could never tell you how to grow in the faith, just that you never measured up. That is legalism. Before it was over both churches were barely able to pay the light bill. None of the new believers stayed. More mature believers left until there was barely enough to hold Sunday School.

As the SBC sometimes we preach salvation by grace, but demand it by works. I’m sorry, but I’ve never been able to earn my salvation. I won’t get in by the “skin of my teeth” but by the blood of Jesus. I now understand Grace and that it means God isn’t mad at me if I make a mistake. I confess my sin, He forgives me and I go on. I now realize that it’s about my relationship with Jesus, not just the rules. I don’t obey the rules in order to earn my relationship with Christ, I obey the rules BECAUSE OF my relationship with Christ. And I don’t feel in bondage anymore, instead I am free.

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-5013 Dr. James Willingham Sat, 18 Jul 2009 15:16:10 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-5013 One of the problems our modern eaters and drinkers have that before the twentieth century people did not have is what is called subliminal seduction along with foods designed to destroy the body. Subliminal seduction techniques such as an empy whiskey glass with some ice cubes in it was one of the best selling ads one whiskey company ever had. What was in the ice cubes had to be seen under a microscope practically, the floating wild figures that man sees in his dts.(delirium tremens). Many of the ads that sell fast foods have subliminal sexual things in them, which the unconscious mind sees and wants as the reason for the food. And then the foods have high fructose corn syrup in them (see the ingredients on cereal boxes, if the syrup is one of the first three ingredients listed, then that food is fattening. There is also the death wish to be found in ads for products like tobacco along with the cancer causing chemicals used in the tobacco products. But there we also have chemical cancer causing agents in our water, air we breathe, etc. I remember hearing one fellow railing about gluttony, when the ones responsible for him being where he was, did not know all of the factors behind their overweight conditions.(the subliminal seduction techniquues, etc., by etc., am think of the tremendous stress such people were under such as preachers endure, stress that must be equivalent to many situations productive to PSTD.). Such things must be addressed, if we are going to deal in a meaningful way with the problems facing our people in the churches. And then there is the fact that we are facing the almost certain collapse of our economy and society due to unemployment as there will be no jobs in sufficient numbers to sustain a return to prosperity, except for a miraculous intervention. Nafta exported the jobs that were available and automation, robotics, and computerization did away with the reason for the rest. We are facing almost certain ruin, short of a miraculous intervention. There is more, but I desist. Go help us all. .-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..<a href="http://thirdgreatawakeningcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/climax-of-reformation.html" rel="nofollow">The Climax of the Reformation</a> =-. One of the problems our modern eaters and drinkers have that before the twentieth century people did not have is what is called subliminal seduction along with foods designed to destroy the body.
Subliminal seduction techniques such as an empy whiskey glass with some ice cubes in it was one of the best selling ads one whiskey company ever had. What was in the ice cubes had to be seen under a microscope practically, the floating wild figures that man sees in his dts.(delirium tremens). Many of the ads that sell fast foods have subliminal sexual things in them, which the unconscious mind sees and wants as the reason for the food. And then the foods have high fructose corn syrup in them (see the ingredients on cereal boxes, if the syrup is one of the first three ingredients listed, then that food is fattening. There is also the death wish to be found in ads for products like tobacco along with the cancer causing chemicals used in the tobacco products. But there we also have chemical cancer causing agents in our water, air we breathe, etc. I remember hearing one fellow railing about gluttony, when the ones responsible for him being where he was, did not know all of the factors behind their overweight conditions.(the subliminal seduction techniquues, etc., by etc., am think of the tremendous stress such people were under such as preachers endure, stress that must be equivalent to many situations productive to PSTD.). Such things must be addressed, if we are going to deal in a meaningful way with the problems facing our people in the churches. And then there is the fact that we are facing the almost certain collapse of our economy and society due to unemployment as there will be no jobs in sufficient numbers to sustain a return to prosperity, except for a miraculous intervention. Nafta exported the jobs that were available and automation, robotics, and computerization did away with the reason for the rest. We are facing almost certain ruin, short of a miraculous intervention. There is more, but I desist. Go help us all.
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-5010 Matt Svoboda Sat, 18 Jul 2009 14:27:14 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-5010 Debbie, I am also a continuationist (kind of) that believes the gifts are still being used today. God, IMHO, has not "ceased" using the miraculous gifts just because everyone from the apostolic age is dead. God can and does give them to whoever he wants. My point is that according to the Bible, a private prayer language isn't a gift to give because it isn't found in the Bible... except the fact that the Corinthians were misusing tongues, speaking in tongues without interpretation(which is exactly what a PPL does), and Paul corrected them saying that it wasn't proper and of God. Debbie,

I am also a continuationist (kind of) that believes the gifts are still being used today. God, IMHO, has not “ceased” using the miraculous gifts just because everyone from the apostolic age is dead. God can and does give them to whoever he wants. My point is that according to the Bible, a private prayer language isn’t a gift to give because it isn’t found in the Bible… except the fact that the Corinthians were misusing tongues, speaking in tongues without interpretation(which is exactly what a PPL does), and Paul corrected them saying that it wasn’t proper and of God.

]]> By: Debbie Kaufman http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-5008 Debbie Kaufman Sat, 18 Jul 2009 05:54:36 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-5008 Matt: This is where you and I would disagree. I believe it does. I believe the outer gifts are still for today. God can give them to whoever He wants. It is not for you or I to say. And it is a prayer closet which is private. .-= Debbie Kaufman´s last blog ..<a href="http://debbiekaufman.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/why-i-am-for-the-hate-crime-bill/" rel="nofollow">Why I Am For The Hate Crime Bill</a> =-. Matt: This is where you and I would disagree. I believe it does. I believe the outer gifts are still for today. God can give them to whoever He wants. It is not for you or I to say. And it is a prayer closet which is private.
.-= Debbie Kaufman´s last blog ..Why I Am For The Hate Crime Bill =-.

]]> By: G F McDowell http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-5006 G F McDowell Sat, 18 Jul 2009 03:47:29 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-5006 That argument is non sequitur. That is just like blaming gun crime on guns themselves. I think most folks around here believe that guns don't kill people, rather, people kill people. Alcohol does not kill people. People kill people. Alcohol does not destroy lives; people do. If an alcoholic father beats his children with a baseball bat, it would make just as much sense to blame his sin on Louisville Slugger as it would to blame it on Bud light. No, we need to be absolutely clear; that man is responsible for his behavior. That is where the blame must rest, on his wicked heart, and not on the tools his heart uses to have its wicked way. I think at some level, the total abstinence position is a backdoor way to remove the blame from people for their sins. That argument is non sequitur. That is just like blaming gun crime on guns themselves. I think most folks around here believe that guns don’t kill people, rather, people kill people. Alcohol does not kill people. People kill people. Alcohol does not destroy lives; people do. If an alcoholic father beats his children with a baseball bat, it would make just as much sense to blame his sin on Louisville Slugger as it would to blame it on Bud light. No, we need to be absolutely clear; that man is responsible for his behavior. That is where the blame must rest, on his wicked heart, and not on the tools his heart uses to have its wicked way. I think at some level, the total abstinence position is a backdoor way to remove the blame from people for their sins.

]]> By: G F McDowell http://sbcvoices.com/dealing-with-legalism/#comment-5005 G F McDowell Sat, 18 Jul 2009 03:21:22 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1512#comment-5005 Jerry, right up above your question, I think I pretty comprehensively explained the relationship between legalism and eternal damnation. Legalism can be good at reducing CERTAIN TYPES of sin, but also breeds sinful pride. Legalism helps impart a proud, false assurance. I believe MOST people who go to hell don't expect that that is their destination. Any time I've witnessed to people, they've stated some form of the point of view that they're pretty decent people, and that they figure that if Hell even exists, they'd probably be able to avoid it because they're not THAT bad. When we make up rules, even with the best of intentions, that do not exist in the scriptures, and place those commandments of men into our church covenants, trouble will always follow. Jerry, right up above your question, I think I pretty comprehensively explained the relationship between legalism and eternal damnation. Legalism can be good at reducing CERTAIN TYPES of sin, but also breeds sinful pride. Legalism helps impart a proud, false assurance. I believe MOST people who go to hell don’t expect that that is their destination. Any time I’ve witnessed to people, they’ve stated some form of the point of view that they’re pretty decent people, and that they figure that if Hell even exists, they’d probably be able to avoid it because they’re not THAT bad. When we make up rules, even with the best of intentions, that do not exist in the scriptures, and place those commandments of men into our church covenants, trouble will always follow.

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