Comments on: Disagreement Concerning Women Serving As Pastors Is Sufficent Cause To Separate http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/ Southern Baptist News & Opinion Mon, 21 May 2012 12:01:37 +0000 hourly 1 By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3183 Matt Svoboda Wed, 20 May 2009 14:33:37 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3183 The only point I have made on this post is that I would not and the GBC do not have to fellowship on a denominational level. The only point I have made on this post is that I would not and the GBC do not have to fellowship on a denominational level.

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3182 Matt Svoboda Wed, 20 May 2009 14:31:52 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3182 "I wouldn’t switch either but I would cooperate with a Presbyterian and witness to the lost with him/her. How about you?" Without hesitating. "And perhaps I should clarify that when I asked you if you would worship with someone from a different secondary background than yours, I mean would you worship with them on a neutral ground?" I have done it many, many times. And I have loved it. “I wouldn’t switch either but I would cooperate with a Presbyterian and witness to the lost with him/her. How about you?”

Without hesitating.

“And perhaps I should clarify that when I asked you if you would worship with someone from a different secondary background than yours, I mean would you worship with them on a neutral ground?”

I have done it many, many times. And I have loved it.

]]> By: Cheryl Schatz http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3181 Cheryl Schatz Wed, 20 May 2009 14:01:59 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3181 And perhaps I should clarify that when I asked you if you would worship with someone from a different secondary background than yours, I mean would you worship with them on a neutral ground? Could you knowingly gather together with those who do not believe as you do on the issues of women in ministry for example, and gather with them for one Sunday in a home church and worship with them? Would you witness on the street to an unsaved person beside them as a brother in Christ together sharing the gospel? Or would you shun them because they believe differently in the secondary issues of faith and refuse to cooperate in street level missions with them? What I am asking is, is there any level of cooperation that you will freely go to that will show your togetherness in Christ without having to separate yourself from them? How uncooperative are you really? And perhaps I should clarify that when I asked you if you would worship with someone from a different secondary background than yours, I mean would you worship with them on a neutral ground? Could you knowingly gather together with those who do not believe as you do on the issues of women in ministry for example, and gather with them for one Sunday in a home church and worship with them? Would you witness on the street to an unsaved person beside them as a brother in Christ together sharing the gospel? Or would you shun them because they believe differently in the secondary issues of faith and refuse to cooperate in street level missions with them? What I am asking is, is there any level of cooperation that you will freely go to that will show your togetherness in Christ without having to separate yourself from them? How uncooperative are you really?

]]> By: Cheryl Schatz http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3179 Cheryl Schatz Wed, 20 May 2009 13:55:36 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3179 I wouldn't switch either but I would cooperate with a Presbyterian and witness to the lost with him/her. How about you? I wouldn’t switch either but I would cooperate with a Presbyterian and witness to the lost with him/her. How about you?

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3173 Matt Svoboda Wed, 20 May 2009 05:37:58 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3173 I would worship with a Presbyterian, but that doesnt mean I should switch to the PCA. I love them and united under the universal church, they are my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, but because of theological conviction we both choose to be not cooperate on a denominational level. Am I not being clear? I feel like I am repeating myself. I would worship with a Presbyterian, but that doesnt mean I should switch to the PCA. I love them and united under the universal church, they are my dear brothers and sisters in Christ, but because of theological conviction we both choose to be not cooperate on a denominational level.

Am I not being clear? I feel like I am repeating myself.

]]> By: Cheryl Schatz http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3172 Cheryl Schatz Wed, 20 May 2009 05:14:53 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3172 Matt, There is a big difference between going to a different church and a refusal to worship with a brother or sister in Christ. I can worship with a person who has a different secondary theology. If they accept me as a sister in Christ we are united. Matt, are you united too? Or would you refuse to worship with someone who believes differently in a non-foundational area? <abbr><em><abbr><em>Cheryl Schatzs last blog post..<a href="http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/05/13/paul-women-pastors-8/" rel="nofollow">Round 8 Interview with the Apostle Paul on women pastors</a></em></abbr></abbr></em> Matt,

There is a big difference between going to a different church and a refusal to worship with a brother or sister in Christ. I can worship with a person who has a different secondary theology. If they accept me as a sister in Christ we are united. Matt, are you united too? Or would you refuse to worship with someone who believes differently in a non-foundational area?

Cheryl Schatzs last blog post..Round 8 Interview with the Apostle Paul on women pastors

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3171 Matt Svoboda Wed, 20 May 2009 04:56:09 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3171 "I guess I just feel the hurt of those who have been forced out of fellowship as if they are not worthy to work alongside you." You seem to be missing what I am saying. This is merely a matter of biblical conviction on both sides. It does not mean one person isnt worthy, but merely that their is a theological disagreement. The same as why Baptist dont worship with Presbys. Baptist dont think Presbys arent worthy, but merely that there are theological differences, it is not a personal matter. “I guess I just feel the hurt of those who have been forced out of fellowship as if they are not worthy to work alongside you.”

You seem to be missing what I am saying. This is merely a matter of biblical conviction on both sides. It does not mean one person isnt worthy, but merely that their is a theological disagreement. The same as why Baptist dont worship with Presbys. Baptist dont think Presbys arent worthy, but merely that there are theological differences, it is not a personal matter.

]]> By: Cheryl Schatz http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3170 Cheryl Schatz Wed, 20 May 2009 02:30:54 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3170 Matt, You said: "When a church disagrees with the BFM on third tier issues we are proud to unite for missions and evangelism, but once that line is crossed and we now disagree on issues that ‘frame our understanding of the church’ it is time to “disfellowship.” " Matt, I would recommend that you stop using the term "disfellowship". I did read your article again to see what I missed and I still got the same idea from your word usage. Perhaps it would be better to pick a term that doesn't have the common meaning of shunning or putting one out of the church. But I am still confused. You think that it is "within one's right" to stop cooperating so that they will no longer "proudly unite for missions and evangelism"? I have had people remove themselves from my friendship because I refuse to turn away men from my bible studies. And if they refuse to evangelize with me because I am a bible teacher and refuse to work side by side with me in missions, what does that tell the world about Christian brotherly love? I guess I just feel the hurt of those who have been forced out of fellowship as if they are not worthy to work alongside you. If they are deserving of your brotherly love, then I have very confused about how you see it as Christ-like to refuse to work with them in ministering to the lost? We all have human weakness, but it seems to me that the more we accept one another even though we do not agree with everything each other believes, the more the world will see Jesus because of our love and acceptance and care for one another. If one has a false doctrine that distorts who Jesus is or what the gospel is, I personally try very hard to evangelize them. I do believe that there is a time when we should stop cooperating with a so-called Christian but that is when the Christian is one who calls himself a brother but who lives an unruly lifestyle in swindling, immorality, etc. But how can one who loves Jesus and is using his/her gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ deserve to be shunned or refused when they would like to work together for a city-wide evangelism campaign? I am sorry but I just don't see what you see. Perhaps if you have been the recipient of evangelism shunning, you may see things differently. Other than that, you seem like a decent and God-fearing young man. I will pray that God will soften your heart so that you will truly love and accept everyone of your true brothers and sisters in Christ because love and pushing away (non-cooperation) just don't go hand in hand. I may be wrong, but I will have to face Christ one day and give an account of my own prejudices. I desire to have as few as possible when it comes to the body of Christ. Be blessed! Cheryl <abbr><em><abbr><em>Cheryl Schatzs last blog post..<a href="http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/05/13/paul-women-pastors-8/" rel="nofollow">Round 8 Interview with the Apostle Paul on women pastors</a></em></abbr></abbr></em> Matt,

You said:
“When a church disagrees with the BFM on third tier issues we are proud to unite for missions and evangelism, but once that line is crossed and we now disagree on issues that ‘frame our understanding of the church’ it is time to “disfellowship.” ”

Matt, I would recommend that you stop using the term “disfellowship”. I did read your article again to see what I missed and I still got the same idea from your word usage. Perhaps it would be better to pick a term that doesn’t have the common meaning of shunning or putting one out of the church.

But I am still confused. You think that it is “within one’s right” to stop cooperating so that they will no longer “proudly unite for missions and evangelism”?

I have had people remove themselves from my friendship because I refuse to turn away men from my bible studies. And if they refuse to evangelize with me because I am a bible teacher and refuse to work side by side with me in missions, what does that tell the world about Christian brotherly love?

I guess I just feel the hurt of those who have been forced out of fellowship as if they are not worthy to work alongside you. If they are deserving of your brotherly love, then I have very confused about how you see it as Christ-like to refuse to work with them in ministering to the lost?

We all have human weakness, but it seems to me that the more we accept one another even though we do not agree with everything each other believes, the more the world will see Jesus because of our love and acceptance and care for one another. If one has a false doctrine that distorts who Jesus is or what the gospel is, I personally try very hard to evangelize them. I do believe that there is a time when we should stop cooperating with a so-called Christian but that is when the Christian is one who calls himself a brother but who lives an unruly lifestyle in swindling, immorality, etc. But how can one who loves Jesus and is using his/her gifts for the benefit of the body of Christ deserve to be shunned or refused when they would like to work together for a city-wide evangelism campaign? I am sorry but I just don’t see what you see. Perhaps if you have been the recipient of evangelism shunning, you may see things differently.

Other than that, you seem like a decent and God-fearing young man. I will pray that God will soften your heart so that you will truly love and accept everyone of your true brothers and sisters in Christ because love and pushing away (non-cooperation) just don’t go hand in hand. I may be wrong, but I will have to face Christ one day and give an account of my own prejudices. I desire to have as few as possible when it comes to the body of Christ.

Be blessed!
Cheryl

Cheryl Schatzs last blog post..Round 8 Interview with the Apostle Paul on women pastors

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3169 Dr. James Willingham Wed, 20 May 2009 02:27:27 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3169 Dear Matt: It would only be fair, if Decature might suggest that no one is pure in this matter as the first Baptist Eldress of Sandy Creek Church and Assn. movd to GA with her husband. I refer to Eldress Martha Stearns Marshall who, when her husband was arrested by authorities for preaching, began preaching herself and won one of the officials to Christ, a man who became a noted Baptist minister in GA & SC. I refer to Samuel Cartledge. If there was an eldress at the beginning of GA Baptists, then every church must be in disorder and unable to act on the matter. The whole thing is kind of hilarious except for the people who will be hurt by such harshness. I suggest GA Baptists need a more biblical reason for taking such action. YES, THEY CAN DO IT, BUT THAT DON'T MAKE THEIR ACTIONS RIGHT. <abbr><em><abbr><em>Dr. James Willinghams last blog post..<a href="http://thirdgreatawakeningcom.blogspot.com/2009/02/climax-of-reformation.html" rel="nofollow">The Climax of the Reformation</a></em></abbr></abbr></em> Dear Matt: It would only be fair, if Decature might suggest that no one is pure in this matter as the first Baptist Eldress of Sandy Creek Church and Assn. movd to GA with her husband. I refer to Eldress Martha Stearns Marshall who, when her husband was arrested by authorities for preaching, began preaching herself and won one of the officials to Christ, a man who became a noted Baptist minister in GA & SC. I refer to Samuel Cartledge. If there was an eldress at the beginning of GA Baptists, then every church must be in disorder and unable to act on the matter. The whole thing is kind of hilarious except for the people who will be hurt by such harshness. I suggest GA Baptists need a more biblical reason for taking such action. YES, THEY CAN DO IT, BUT THAT DON’T MAKE THEIR ACTIONS RIGHT.

Dr. James Willinghams last blog post..The Climax of the Reformation

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/disagreement-women-pastors/#comment-3168 Matt Svoboda Wed, 20 May 2009 01:55:40 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=896#comment-3168 Well, if you read the post it should be pretty clear that when I say disfellowship I merely mean that the GBC is fully within their right to stop cooperating on a denominational level with FBC, Decatur while at the same time extending Christian brotherly love. Sorry if I was not clear. Well, if you read the post it should be pretty clear that when I say disfellowship I merely mean that the GBC is fully within their right to stop cooperating on a denominational level with FBC, Decatur while at the same time extending Christian brotherly love.

Sorry if I was not clear.

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