Comments on: Eschatology In the SBC http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/ Southern Baptist News & Opinion Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:29:18 +0000 hourly 1 By: GL http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8167 GL Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:57:52 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8167 I have to laugh a little at your statement. Actually your statement is dogmatic in its position which is no position. If one takes a position on a given subject, in this case eschatology, then they are outside truth because truth cannot be knows as it seems you have posited. If a person holds firmly to any eschatological position, or doctrine of salvation, or creation account, or this or that then they are, should we say wrong because truth cannot be known definitively? We just believe all of them (all positions on any given doctrine) and it will "PAN OUT" in the end. Interesting! The truth of the matter is this: Whatever position anyone takes it is their dogma. It is their doctrine and that is dogma. It is a position. GL I have to laugh a little at your statement. Actually your statement is dogmatic in its position which is no position. If one takes a position on a given subject, in this case eschatology, then they are outside truth because truth cannot be knows as it seems you have posited. If a person holds firmly to any eschatological position, or doctrine of salvation, or creation account, or this or that then they are, should we say wrong because truth cannot be known definitively? We just believe all of them (all positions on any given doctrine) and it will “PAN OUT” in the end. Interesting!

The truth of the matter is this: Whatever position anyone takes it is their dogma. It is their doctrine and that is dogma. It is a position.

GL

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8164 Matt Svoboda Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:20:12 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8164 And like I said- if you are going to hold to your logic(which is flawed) at least be fair and hold everyone to the same accountability. And like I said- if you are going to hold to your logic(which is flawed) at least be fair and hold everyone to the same accountability.

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8163 Matt Svoboda Fri, 19 Mar 2010 03:19:32 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8163 GL, Its not hiding. When churches ask 0 theological questions(which is most) it is not deceitful to not tell them where you stand on every issue. Your logic is flawed, badly. GL,

Its not hiding. When churches ask 0 theological questions(which is most) it is not deceitful to not tell them where you stand on every issue. Your logic is flawed, badly.

]]> By: GL http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8160 GL Fri, 19 Mar 2010 02:31:47 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8160 It is WRONG for any ministerial candidate to not reveal what they believe to church that is looking for a pastor. It is deception (a secret lie) it is sin. If they accept you after you have revealed what you believe then all is well. If our seminaries and colleges are not instructing all students to be open on their convictions when applying for a position then they are not worth the money spent on them to train for ministry. There is no compromise in this area. It is deceit and deceit is a sin. God blesses honesty and yes even if that person is a Calvinist or Arminian or Amillennial or Pre-Millennial. Yes, we are all going to be held accountable for what we think, say and hide. GL It is WRONG for any ministerial candidate to not reveal what they believe to church that is looking for a pastor. It is deception (a secret lie) it is sin. If they accept you after you have revealed what you believe then all is well. If our seminaries and colleges are not instructing all students to be open on their convictions when applying for a position then they are not worth the money spent on them to train for ministry. There is no compromise in this area. It is deceit and deceit is a sin.
God blesses honesty and yes even if that person is a Calvinist or Arminian or Amillennial or Pre-Millennial. Yes, we are all going to be held accountable for what we think, say and hide.

GL

]]> By: Matt2239 http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8156 Matt2239 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:25:23 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8156 "John Darby invented it." What a weak argument. This has been rebutted so many times that John Darby doesn't even believe he existed. “John Darby invented it.” What a weak argument. This has been rebutted so many times that John Darby doesn’t even believe he existed.

]]> By: Matt2239 http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8155 Matt2239 Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:20:17 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8155 You can google any perspective you want and line up people who will say "amen" to your point of view. Truth is not established by voting or googling. Setting up a straw man and blowing him over may only serve to identify who is the wolf. Using words like "all Christian theology before 1830" makes the giant assumption that somewhere "all" historical events, attitudes and persuasions are represented. To over generalize to make a point makes one's argument pointless in my humble opinion. You can google any perspective you want and line up people who will say “amen” to your point of view. Truth is not established by voting or googling. Setting up a straw man and blowing him over may only serve to identify who is the wolf. Using words like “all Christian theology before 1830″ makes the giant assumption that somewhere “all” historical events, attitudes and persuasions are represented. To over generalize to make a point makes one’s argument pointless in my humble opinion.

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8154 Matt Svoboda Thu, 18 Mar 2010 03:46:17 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8154 Calvinists arent necessarily playing "hide and seek" as you accuse them of(with over-generalization of course). Most churches barely ask any theological questions(a majority of churches dont as any) so when theology isnt discussed at all why would the pastor-to-be say, "Oh yeah, Im a calvinist." When most people hear the word "calvinist" they have about 100 wrong thoughts run through their mind. Or maybe when I interview for a position I should just say: "Hi, my name is Matt Svoboda, I am a Calvinistic, Evangelical, Missional, Continuationist, Amillennial, Baptist, complementarian, I dont believe tongues is a 'private prayer language,' I believe Scripture is inerrant, inspired, infallible, sufficient, and authoritative,.....etc" I could just go on and on and on about every detail of what I believe. Fact is the arminian/calvinism issue is a third tier issue. Therefore, it is unreasonable to expect every calvinist OR arminian to come out and say where they stand. Why not do that with every issue? Complementarianism is just as divisive... Dont hold a double standard. When a church never asks or says where they stand- why do you expect Calvinist to have full disclosure, but not arminians... Those dang arminians are so deceitful!!! Calvinists arent necessarily playing “hide and seek” as you accuse them of(with over-generalization of course).

Most churches barely ask any theological questions(a majority of churches dont as any) so when theology isnt discussed at all why would the pastor-to-be say, “Oh yeah, Im a calvinist.” When most people hear the word “calvinist” they have about 100 wrong thoughts run through their mind.

Or maybe when I interview for a position I should just say:

“Hi, my name is Matt Svoboda, I am a Calvinistic, Evangelical, Missional, Continuationist, Amillennial, Baptist, complementarian, I dont believe tongues is a ‘private prayer language,’ I believe Scripture is inerrant, inspired, infallible, sufficient, and authoritative,…..etc”

I could just go on and on and on about every detail of what I believe. Fact is the arminian/calvinism issue is a third tier issue. Therefore, it is unreasonable to expect every calvinist OR arminian to come out and say where they stand. Why not do that with every issue? Complementarianism is just as divisive…

Dont hold a double standard. When a church never asks or says where they stand- why do you expect Calvinist to have full disclosure, but not arminians…

Those dang arminians are so deceitful!!!

]]> By: Matt Svoboda http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8153 Matt Svoboda Thu, 18 Mar 2010 03:37:38 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8153 GL, Your sweeping over-generalizations are quite vacuous. GL,

Your sweeping over-generalizations are quite vacuous.

]]> By: Dr. James Willingham http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8152 Dr. James Willingham Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:08:55 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8152 Wimps or not, it behooves every one to remember that every last one of us shall give an account to God for how we have conducted ourselves in this discussion. We must be faithful to Him and to what He has enabled us to believe. We do not believe anything that is true without His help. We also must face the fact that He has not moved us any farther, if that far, than Paul's "we know in part." We might confront another participant, but if it is not done in the spirit of love we are in serious trouble. Some Calvinists are, indeed, mean and hateful, but I know Arminians who are hateful, too. The same can be said of Conservatives and Moderates. Muc of the meanness has to do with the pathologies inherent in our fallen nature, in the madness within. God grant us a third great awakening. Wimps or not, it behooves every one to remember that every last one of us shall give an account to God for how we have conducted ourselves in this discussion. We must be faithful to Him and to what He has enabled us to believe. We do not believe anything that is true without His help. We also must face the fact that He has not moved us any farther, if that far, than Paul’s “we know in part.” We might confront another participant, but if it is not done in the spirit of love we are in serious trouble. Some Calvinists are, indeed, mean and hateful, but I know Arminians who are hateful, too. The same can be said of Conservatives and Moderates. Muc of the meanness has to do with the pathologies inherent in our fallen nature, in the madness within. God grant us a third great awakening.

]]> By: GL http://sbcvoices.com/eschatology-in-the-sbc/#comment-8147 GL Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:12:23 +0000 http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1466#comment-8147 Five point Calvinist are not wimps in presenting their view and as in the manner of the present mindset of this generation it is done in a harsh and mean spirited way. Compare the mean spirit of this generations push to cram Calvinism down the proverbial throats of everyone around them to the attitude of pre millennial dispensationalist who tend to be less Calvinistic (4 point to one point to Arminian) and do not exhibit the same carnal approach to their position. I consider myself a one pointer in a general sense, once saved always saved, and the Calvinist will categorize me as Arminian. The proponents of dispensational pre millennialism as I have experienced it was and has never been mean spirited as the now generation of reform minded believers. There is nothing wrong with believing what you believe and making it known. If you are afraid of your view then that seems to contradict conviction and normalcy for a given position. There are seasoned Calvinist and OSAS Arminians who are mature and kind and accepting but disagree in love but are not like the present carnal approach of do or die Calvinist. The passion is in Calvinism not Christ, that is sad and there is a big difference. This is a blanket statement and as always there are exceptions. As such, all who are operating in the flesh in presenting their view will not admit to it, in fact they are blind to it. Another aspect of the now Calvinist is deceit in taking a church and not revealing what they are and who they are. If one’s belief is worth having it is worth telling, but playing hide and seek is disingenuous and wrong. This is true for all in their own theology. Such a blunt approach no doubt could result in a theological mudslinging contest, but hopefully that won’t happen. Is it really possible for such strongly held beliefs, in today’s world, to not find them in conflict by their disciples, in this generation? Five point Calvinist are not wimps in presenting their view and as in the manner of the present mindset of this generation it is done in a harsh and mean spirited way. Compare the mean spirit of this generations push to cram Calvinism down the proverbial throats of everyone around them to the attitude of pre millennial dispensationalist who tend to be less Calvinistic (4 point to one point to Arminian) and do not exhibit the same carnal approach to their position. I consider myself a one pointer in a general sense, once saved always saved, and the Calvinist will categorize me as Arminian. The proponents of dispensational pre millennialism as I have experienced it was and has never been mean spirited as the now generation of reform minded believers. There is nothing wrong with believing what you believe and making it known. If you are afraid of your view then that seems to contradict conviction and normalcy for a given position. There are seasoned Calvinist and OSAS Arminians who are mature and kind and accepting but disagree in love but are not like the present carnal approach of do or die Calvinist. The passion is in Calvinism not Christ, that is sad and there is a big difference. This is a blanket statement and as always there are exceptions. As such, all who are operating in the flesh in presenting their view will not admit to it, in fact they are blind to it. Another aspect of the now Calvinist is deceit in taking a church and not revealing what they are and who they are. If one’s belief is worth having it is worth telling, but playing hide and seek is disingenuous and wrong. This is true for all in their own theology. Such a blunt approach no doubt could result in a theological mudslinging contest, but hopefully that won’t happen. Is it really possible for such strongly held beliefs, in today’s world, to not find them in conflict by their disciples, in this generation?

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