Comments on: FBC, Decatur: A Test Case For The SBC

By: Dr. James Willingham

Dr. James Willingham — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 00:59:40 +0000

The real issue of FBC Decatur is what does she believe – not that she is a woman. After all, all the Baptists of Ga., so to speak, come from Kiokee whose founding pastor, Daniel Marshall, had a wife who was an eldress back in NC at the Sandy Creek Church, Martha Stearns Marshall. When Daniel was arrested f0r preaching, she went to exhorting the officiers of the law, one of whom would be converted as a resul, Samuel Cartledge and serve in the Baptist ministry (mostly in SC) for over 50 yrs. The whole thing is God’s laughter at His children being silly. Whoever desires the office of bishop desires a good work, Isn’t the gender for the one desiring it open to anyone just as in the salvation passages? A large church in MO. was founded originally by a woman, but the Baptists told her that it wouold never be acknowledged. She peached theBible as inerrant and she preached Soverign Grace. An Independent Soverign Grace Baptist Preacher told me he preached a revival for her in her church. She was the mother of a friend of mine, a Godly woman, who studied Pink’s Sovereignty of God and became convinced of it. What most people do not know is that the old Sovereign Gace believers were the leading liberal lights of their day, and they knew their Bibles perhaps better than we do. Evey body was awfully worried about them pesky Baptists infecting their neighborhoods and churches. that is why they arrested and hauled them off to jail. And infect they did. 255 Congregational Churches became Baptists. A friend of mine preached in one in NY back in the 50s/60s? And so many denominations now practice believers immersion. Was it Lottie Moon, who said, “I have never been ordained, but I was foreordained.” Amazing! We are such fraidy cats and fearful of gender confusion. Hmmn!
.-= Dr. James Willingham´s last blog ..The Climax of the Reformation =-.

By: Matt Svoboda

Matt Svoboda — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:08:56 +0000

Mike,

It is funny that you start of ripping the post a little, but then you say you agree at the end…

Also, I am sorry if you don’t see a difference between a pastor and a ‘director.’ I know of some churches that men are directors because they are not qualified for the ministry, but are qualified to help get people to volunteer and provide some oversight to children. IMO, it is a legalistic view of complementarianism to say that women can’t be over children. I am not uncomfortable with a woman Childrens Pastor, at all. Why? Because the Bible says to not let a woman teach or have authority over a man. Children do not fall under this category. Comps aren’t about being strict in a theological system, rather they are all about being biblical.

By: Mike Little

Mike Little — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 03:04:44 +0000

“Egalitarianism usually, not always, is one step closer to deeper forms of liberalism. ”

This argument is growing tiresome. Most egaltarians that I know would consider themselves conservative… not because of a particular issue, but because of their approach to the Bible.

I can make more of an argument from a secular standpoint than a Biblical one… just in how man and women are made. However, who am I to say that God can’t and won’t call another Deborah – a prophet – which is one of the highest of the authoritative roles in scripture?

Not to mention the fact that we might not have a church if it wasn’t for the faithful women serving selflessly.

Now… I must say that I wouldn’t be comfortable with a female Lead Pastor. I may be wrong. But I sure would work with a church that approached the issue with humility.

Oh – and PLEASE tell our SBC bretheren to call a spade a spade. IF a woman is over the Children’s ministry she is a pastor to those families. I find it humorous that if it is a male, he is a “pastor” and if it is a female, she is a “director”. If strict complementarians want to be strict, they shouldn’t have a female in that role to begin with.

Ruby, nice post. Thanks for your humility.

By: Tim Walker

Tim Walker — Fri, 15 May 2009 22:41:49 +0000

Ruby Brown,
A great testimony and thank you for sharing this.

By: Ruby Brown

Ruby Brown — Fri, 15 May 2009 07:06:22 +0000

Dear fellow SBC commentators, as a loyal Southern Baptist for over 50 years, you truly confuse me. When I first became a Southern Baptist in the big First Baptist Church, Atlanta, GA, in 1957, and attended the First Baptist Church of Decatur, GA for a short time after my marriage in 1958-59, because my new husband wanted to attend a smaller Southern Baptist Church, I submitted to his judgment. My husband was a dyed-in-the wool Southern Baptist with a long family history of being a Southern Baptist, while I was raised in a Primative Foot-Washing Baptist Church by good Christian Parents who were very charitable to other denominations, including , but mildly disagreeing with, the big First Baptist Church in our small town of 300. However, my parents allowed their seven children to attend the big FBC church in my lovely town (I don’t want to embarrass them by naming them in this somewhat embarrassingly ironic commentary) for Vacation Bible School or to attend funerals when our “Primitive School” which had been a Southern Baptist Assembly Grounds, dismissed school for funerals of dignitaries of any denominational color, and this school still allowed Chapel, and preaching in school during chapel, and “missionary” work with students after, and they promoted Bible Study and Bible Memory Programs as well. We all prayed for each other and our country during the drastic days of WWII and we realized that it would take all Christians working together, instead of fighting each other, to fight Communism, Humanism, and all the other “Ism’s” and ‘Cism’s” that were rising their ugly head. In this somewhat crude vernacular of our honorable, but highly uneducated local citizens in book knowledge, they seemed to me to be more effective in producing good citizens, and compassionate Christians, who knew how to cooperate and show Christian love, than some of these hostile dialoguer ’s who delight themselves in being great debaters like the philosophers on Mars Hill in Athens, Greece, in the Apostolic times. Before I could become a Southern Baptist Member in FBC, Atlanta, GA, I was required to take a six-weeks training class to be a Southern Baptist, which I also submitted graciously too. It was here I first learned of the Cooperative Program of Southern Baptists, and heard the first stories of Lottie Moon and Annie Armstrong, and of their love for GOD and of the sacrificial services they preformed under the banner of Southern Baptist for the cause of missions: but this was not the first call of GOD on my life to claim me to the arena of Christian Service and even servitude for the cause of Christ. I heard this call while reading the Holy Scriptures for myself, through faithful church attendance, and by discussing the “Call of Christ” to follow HIM where ever He leads me with a younger brother as we worked in the cotton fields, much as the call came to Abraham to leave his kindred and his country to go to a land, a people, and a church where HE could use me for His glory. My husband and I have been here at the present location, been faithful servants to the LORD in a SBC church that has wondered around in the maze of religious confusion, with people wondering in and out of different churches, and different philosophies for nearly 50 years. My husband and I came to this small town, small church, whose light was kindled by the Great Commission Zeal of Southern Baptist in the 1950’s called “The Bold Mission Thrust”. We got on board with a small struggling, mission church, and never looked back. Even though the Chairman of Deacons, and Chairman of the Nominating Committee couldn’t find a spot for me, a lowly woman, to serve, GOD found a spot for me, and excluded them, the self-righteous bigots. HE allowed me to serve HIM, not in just one place, but in dozens of places, and, yes, some of them have been in teaching men, when no man was Christian Man enough to teach the mixed classes of boys and girls from Primaries up the ladder to young adults, and back down again. Also, GOD has allowed me to teach in mission groups from Sunbeams up the ladder to various offices in the Women’s Missionary Union. I say this with humility, because only GOD could do this, to take a shy little Appalachian Mountain , cotton-picking, buck-toothed, grinning country girl and light her candle. HE picked her up from the dust of poverty, and gave her a mansion on the hill, and a place to serve him in “autonomous bliss”. GOD must have a good sense of humor in the people HE chooses to do HIS bidding. Pharisees all along the way have tried to exclude me from faithful service, and some even in the the GREAT Southern Baptist Convention, have placed their legalistic limits, and others have opened Pandora’s Box of Liberalism, to lure me off the biblical trail. Some may exclude Women, and lift men to lofty positions even though they are wearing the “Emperor’s Clothes, “but JESUS calls whomsoever HE wills anyway without being a respecter of persons. HE will be the final judge of who is worthy for service and entrance into the Heavenly kingdom. My Holy Scriptures tells me that JESUS looks upon the heart and not upon outward appearance. He is the GOOD SHEPHERD and even a child can lead the sheep into the greener pastures of Christian Charity, if GOD cannot find a “man” to stand in the gap, for JESUS said that “no man can pluck us out of the Father’s hand”. My brothers, please don’t be so quick to judge every woman by such severe standards. In heaven, you might be our servants instead of the other way around. We will still need you and you will still us. Are you treating us as you would want to be treated.?
Ruby

By: Theological Unity and Women Pastors « Evangelical Village

Theological Unity and Women Pastors « Evangelical Village — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 14:00:52 +0000

[...] This does not come out of nowhere. The Georgia Baptist Convention has come out and said that they are going to disfellowship with FBC of Decatur, Georgia because they have a female pastor. My first post that I wrote really just took a look at the issue at hand and I made a few observations. You can read it here. [...]

By: Todd B.

Todd B. — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 13:48:16 +0000

Guys, the post seems pretty clear to me. Let me interpret post #47 (translation is not at all the same as agreement with its intent):

The post suggests that Mohler and Patterson are on big time agendas to exclude people:

Mohler wants to exclude women and gays.
Patterson wants to exclude Calvinists.

The sarcasm of the post is not as clear but seems to suggest that Baptists only care about excluding people and that we will not stop at women clergy.

The problem with bapticus hereticus’ assertion, if I have interpreted it correctly is two-fold. One, it assumes that the goal is exclusion rather than a desire for biblical truth. Second, it seems to equate excluding gay clergy with excluding Calvinists and women pastors. On this comment stream, we have been concerned with whether affirming women pastors should be considered (like gay clergy) as outrageously liberal or (like Calvinism) a 3d tier doctrine on which we are free to disagree and should treat each other with charity.

The strength of his post, however, is the irony it suggests that many in SBC life seem to see all disagreements as first tier and treat all those with whom they disagree with contempt.

Just my interpretation and 2 cents,
Todd