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	<title>Comments on: Denominational Reform The Odysseus Way (Why I&#8217;m Undecided About The GCR)</title>
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		<title>By: Tony Kummer</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3732</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Kummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Robert,
Thanks for stopping by and sharing the inside story. Judging from your comments, the calls for sweeping change coming from some are way too simplistic.

 I do appreciate your dialog here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,<br />
Thanks for stopping by and sharing the inside story. Judging from your comments, the calls for sweeping change coming from some are way too simplistic.</p>
<p> I do appreciate your dialog here.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Reeves</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3731</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Reeves</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 22:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1565#comment-3731</guid>
		<description>Interesting discussion. It’s exciting to see the passion that has been generated by the GCR document and the ensuing conversation about denominational entities at all levels. I think that if this GCR discussion helps us become reenergized about the mission Jesus gave us all, it will have been a tremendous blessing.

I won’t try to respond to everything but I do want to address some of the concerns that have been expressed about state conventions. I obviously can’t speak for everyone but as the communications director of the Kentucky Baptist Convention I am familiar with the KBC and can attest that you won’t meet anywhere a more hardworking or committed staff of Christians who have a strong passion for the Great Commission. These are folks who are working many hours each week in either direct ministries or in ministries that help to strengthen churches so that they can be effective in their own local ministries as well as strong supporters of SBC causes. I am aware of some on the staff who took pay cuts in leaving churches to come to work for the state convention but did so because they felt God calling them to serve here.

Discussing the division of CP resources is a completely legitimate and important process but as we do so, please keep in mind that, at least here in the KBC, we are working with fewer dollars than in the past – not more. In the 11 years that I have been with the convention, Cooperative Program giving has never matched the inflation rate and we have seen the average percentage of undesignated giving from the churches to the Cooperative Program decline from 9.3 percent in 1998 to just under 7 percent last year. At the same time, the Convention has moved to increase the percentage it sends to the SBC.

And this year, due to the downturn in the economy, the Kentucky Baptist Mission Board is working on a spendable budget that is less than the budget approved by messengers. The number of staff has also been reduced during the past 10 years and, again due to the recession, we have some positions that are going unfilled right now.

In Kentucky, CP gifts through the churches are basically divided three ways. The largest piece of the pie (just over 37 percent) goes to the SBC followed by a slightly smaller slice (36.5 percent) that goes to the Kentucky Baptist Mission Board for its work. Then the smallest piece of the pie (26.4 percent) goes to Christian education and KBC entities such as our children’s ministries, camps, foundation, etc.

In addition to supporting SBC mission causes through the CP, Kentucky churches are also supporting the International Mission Board and North American Mission Board through the special offerings. The Lottie Moon Christmas Offering from Kentucky was more than $4 million this past year and the Annie Armstrong Easter Offering was almost $2 million which effectively doubles what the SBC mission boards receive from Kentucky churches.

Every state convention, seminary, national SBC entity, church and individual Christian should always be looking for better ways to serve and to adapt to the missions and ministry needs of the times. I’m grateful to be a part of a state convention and national convention that is willing and even eager to examine itself and do just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting discussion. It’s exciting to see the passion that has been generated by the GCR document and the ensuing conversation about denominational entities at all levels. I think that if this GCR discussion helps us become reenergized about the mission Jesus gave us all, it will have been a tremendous blessing.</p>
<p>I won’t try to respond to everything but I do want to address some of the concerns that have been expressed about state conventions. I obviously can’t speak for everyone but as the communications director of the Kentucky Baptist Convention I am familiar with the KBC and can attest that you won’t meet anywhere a more hardworking or committed staff of Christians who have a strong passion for the Great Commission. These are folks who are working many hours each week in either direct ministries or in ministries that help to strengthen churches so that they can be effective in their own local ministries as well as strong supporters of SBC causes. I am aware of some on the staff who took pay cuts in leaving churches to come to work for the state convention but did so because they felt God calling them to serve here.</p>
<p>Discussing the division of CP resources is a completely legitimate and important process but as we do so, please keep in mind that, at least here in the KBC, we are working with fewer dollars than in the past – not more. In the 11 years that I have been with the convention, Cooperative Program giving has never matched the inflation rate and we have seen the average percentage of undesignated giving from the churches to the Cooperative Program decline from 9.3 percent in 1998 to just under 7 percent last year. At the same time, the Convention has moved to increase the percentage it sends to the SBC.</p>
<p>And this year, due to the downturn in the economy, the Kentucky Baptist Mission Board is working on a spendable budget that is less than the budget approved by messengers. The number of staff has also been reduced during the past 10 years and, again due to the recession, we have some positions that are going unfilled right now.</p>
<p>In Kentucky, CP gifts through the churches are basically divided three ways. The largest piece of the pie (just over 37 percent) goes to the SBC followed by a slightly smaller slice (36.5 percent) that goes to the Kentucky Baptist Mission Board for its work. Then the smallest piece of the pie (26.4 percent) goes to Christian education and KBC entities such as our children’s ministries, camps, foundation, etc.</p>
<p>In addition to supporting SBC mission causes through the CP, Kentucky churches are also supporting the International Mission Board and North American Mission Board through the special offerings. The Lottie Moon Christmas Offering from Kentucky was more than $4 million this past year and the Annie Armstrong Easter Offering was almost $2 million which effectively doubles what the SBC mission boards receive from Kentucky churches.</p>
<p>Every state convention, seminary, national SBC entity, church and individual Christian should always be looking for better ways to serve and to adapt to the missions and ministry needs of the times. I’m grateful to be a part of a state convention and national convention that is willing and even eager to examine itself and do just that.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Burus</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3714</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Burus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1565#comment-3714</guid>
		<description>Or they could disassociate with the states and force the local church to decide if they are going to send money to the state or to the national convention, knowing that each won&#039;t send money to the other.  

Plus, if I understand correctly, it already is not necessary for money to go &quot;through&quot; the state.  A church could decide to send it directly to the SBC.  We could always &quot;resolve&quot; to encourage more of that.
.-= Todd Burus´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://toddongod.com/2009/06/14/sunday-devotion-a-prayer-over-joshua-10-42/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Sunday Devotion- A Prayer over Joshua 10.42&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or they could disassociate with the states and force the local church to decide if they are going to send money to the state or to the national convention, knowing that each won&#8217;t send money to the other.  </p>
<p>Plus, if I understand correctly, it already is not necessary for money to go &#8220;through&#8221; the state.  A church could decide to send it directly to the SBC.  We could always &#8220;resolve&#8221; to encourage more of that.<br />
.-= Todd Burus´s last blog ..<a href="http://toddongod.com/2009/06/14/sunday-devotion-a-prayer-over-joshua-10-42/" rel="nofollow">Sunday Devotion- A Prayer over Joshua 10.42</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Kummer</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3712</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Kummer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1565#comment-3712</guid>
		<description>It is 100% up to the states about how much CP gets passed on to Nashville and the SBC - but they can put a good deal of pressure on the states to pass more on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is 100% up to the states about how much CP gets passed on to Nashville and the SBC &#8211; but they can put a good deal of pressure on the states to pass more on.</p>
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		<title>By: Grady Bauer</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3710</link>
		<dc:creator>Grady Bauer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1565#comment-3710</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve said this before....without a plan in place...the GCR is nothing more than a tool to ease their minds...&quot;We took a stand and agreed on something we already believed.&quot;  Until there are actual cuts made, jobs lost and things reorganized I won&#039;t sign....even with caveats :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this before&#8230;.without a plan in place&#8230;the GCR is nothing more than a tool to ease their minds&#8230;&#8221;We took a stand and agreed on something we already believed.&#8221;  Until there are actual cuts made, jobs lost and things reorganized I won&#8217;t sign&#8230;.even with caveats <img src='http://sbcvoices.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Greg Alford</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3706</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Alford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:38:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1565#comment-3706</guid>
		<description>Todd,

&lt;i&gt; “Still, the statement, if adopted by the Convention as a whole would carry the weight of a resolution and give churches and church leaders an additional basis on which to make needed changes.” ,&lt;/i&gt;

You mean like the weight the Garner resolution carried? 

Resolutions are a waist of time, because they cannot be enforced as long as the various entities of the SBC can just ignore the ones they wish to ignore.

The whole convention process is a big waist of our time and God’s resources.
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://gritsgrace.blogspot.com/2009/06/decline-of-lm-and-cp-offerings-some.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Decline of LM and CP Offerings - Some Tough Questions&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Todd,</p>
<p><i> “Still, the statement, if adopted by the Convention as a whole would carry the weight of a resolution and give churches and church leaders an additional basis on which to make needed changes.” ,</i></p>
<p>You mean like the weight the Garner resolution carried? </p>
<p>Resolutions are a waist of time, because they cannot be enforced as long as the various entities of the SBC can just ignore the ones they wish to ignore.</p>
<p>The whole convention process is a big waist of our time and God’s resources.<br />
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..<a href="http://gritsgrace.blogspot.com/2009/06/decline-of-lm-and-cp-offerings-some.html" rel="nofollow">The Decline of LM and CP Offerings &#8211; Some Tough Questions</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: John Inman</title>
		<link>http://sbcvoices.com/grc-undecided/#comment-3701</link>
		<dc:creator>John Inman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 02:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sbcvoices.com/?p=1565#comment-3701</guid>
		<description>I may be wrong but I don&#039;t think there is anything the actual SBC meetings can do to change the way money flows. Wouldn&#039;t it take a complete dismantling of the CP? To me it&#039;s all about the seminaries namb and imb trying to ensure they get bigger pieces of the shrinking pie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be wrong but I don&#8217;t think there is anything the actual SBC meetings can do to change the way money flows. Wouldn&#8217;t it take a complete dismantling of the CP? To me it&#8217;s all about the seminaries namb and imb trying to ensure they get bigger pieces of the shrinking pie.</p>
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