– Ronnie Floyd (chairperson), pastor, FBC Springdale, Ark.
– Johnny Hunt, pastor, FBC, Woodstock, Ga., SBC president
– Jim Richards, executive director, Southern Baptists of Texas Convention
– Frank Page, pastor, FBC, Taylors, S.C.
– David Dockery, president, Union University
– Simon Tsoi, first vice chairman, International Mission Board
– Donna Gaines, Bellevue Baptist Church, Cordova, Tenn.
– Al Gilbert, pastor, Calvary Baptist Church, Winston-Salem, N.C.
– J.D. Greear, pastor, Summit Church, Durham, N.C.
– Tom Biles, director of missions, Tampa Bay Association, Executive Committee member
– Danny Akin, president, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
– R. Albert Mohler Jr., president, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
– John Drummond, St. Andrews Baptist Church, Panama City, Fla.
– Harry Lewis, North American Mission Board
– Mike Orr, pastor, FBC, Chipley, Fla.
– Roger Spradlin, pastor, Valley Baptist Church, Bakersfield, Calif., Executive Committee member
– Robert White, executive director, Georgia Baptist Convention
– Ken Whitten, pastor, Idlewild Baptist Church, Tampa, Fla.
– Ted Traylor, Olive Baptist Church, Pensacola, Fla.
{ 52 comments }
A lot of very godly, humble men on this task force. For that I am very grateful.
But, is there a reason that there is only one person west of Texas on this Task Force? Do the Southeast states have special insight? Why are we so regional?
Only one woman as well, Matt. I don’t get into quotas on this type of thing because you need to have the best people on it, but I wonder how much ethnic diversity is represented (I don’t know everyone, so there may be more than Simon Tsoi, who is obvious). It seems that in a nation where we will be majority-minority populations by 2040 or so, you would want to have differing perspectives and insights into how to reach different groups.
While I do agree we need to have the best people on board, I also feel there should probably be more than one woman on the task force if for nothing more than propriety sake. We live in a day and age full of church scandals that are sexual in nature. It is better to be safe than to open yourself up to questions and innuendo.
I’m sure somewhere in the SBC we could find “at least” one other qualified woman capable of working with this task force.
.-= Sallie´s last blog ..My Thoughts on Tuesday at the SBC Annual Meeting =-.
I’ll volunteer gladly…. I’m a Pastors Wife (oops, from the Southeast, Low Country of SC to be exact) …an unknown…but I’m ready and willing.
Hey guys, lets be supportive…so many postives with this Convention and the Resurgence.
…Still Proud to be a Southern Baptist…
Lets lift them in Prayer and get on board!
.-= Amy Waddell´s last blog ..Frances Morrow by Eleece Parker =-.
Why so many Floridians?
Why none of these young leaders that we are doing this for?
What are the agendas behind the GCR? I hope everyone truly wants a more missions-driven, Christ-focused denomination.
Perhaps Johnny Hunt’s personal networking is at play here… By that I mean that these appear to be people that Johnny knows and trust. I’m not sure about the others on the list but I believe that three of the pastors from North West Florida have hosted conferences by Johnny in their churches in the last few years.
I guess this might be a good lesson on the importance of networking… Johnny has been building his network for a very long time.
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
Greg,
I agree that his personal network is at play here and that can be helpful. My question is this: how can the GCR be productively accomplished when 95% of its task force is from one region of the entire population?
There is no way they can get a fully accurate read on the state of the SBC when 95% of the reps are from one corner region of the entire US.
Note to all: I am not trying to be negative… I am just having a hard time seeing how such a regional task force can get an accurate read of where we are and where we need to go. If this was a task force for just the South East it would be Dream Team!!
I am from Tampa and I am surprised at the number of Floridians in the GCR task force. Perhaps someone from Iowa, Washington (Seattle Area), Northern California, Las Vegas, and/or New England would bring a fresher perspective.
I forgot to add that the places listed in my previous comment represent the less historically baptist/Southern Baptist areas as well as the most challenging places to conduct evangelism and church planting. Someone from one of those underrepresented regions would provide a much needed voice in the SBC to their most pressing needs.
No only that, Matt. The people are all “known”. As happy as I am for this to move forward, it’s very often the same small group. Even the speakers for next are mega-church well known pastors. Our convention is not made up of just popular mega-church pastors. Just the opposite, in fact.
.-= Mark Lamprecht´s last blog ..Free Bibleworks8 Software? =-.
I’m a woman from a small church in Pennsylvania! If the committee wants to diversify, I’m available!
In all seriousness, thank you for posting the names so we can begin to pray for the members of this important task force. I trust that their selection was a result of hours of prayer and seeking God’s will. Now we can support them as they take on the challenge of reform.
We’ve won a victory here, guys. No matter who is on the list, there will always be ways to second guess it. There is enough balance here to do what we voted for them to do.
It’s time now to rally behind them and lift them up in prayer for the advancement of God’s kingdom.
Matt,
It may indeed be wise to include a greater variety of people on the task force. But to say that those selected can’t represent the gospel interests of the Southwest or Northeast falls into the egalitarian trap created by generations of political democratic representation: only those like me can represent me.
It is the same thinking that infects the selection of deacons and elders — or any committee, for that matter — and which proposes that unless there is a “cross section” of the congregation, somehow the leadership is invalid.
Raising questions of proper “representation” on the GCR Task Force is injecting political categories into the very movement that, in part, decries the politicization of the Convention.
Rob,
Do you think that without the younger pastors getting involved in the GCR and such that we would have had the same outcome as we did?
The political categories cut both ways. There is always going to be some level of the “good ole boys”. I saw it at the GA Baptist Convention. What I experienced there gave me no desire to go back. This doesn’t mean the good ole boys have ill motives or are necessarily bad for the Convention.
I will say this though. If this years SBC would have been strongly led by folks with the attitude and approach of Morris Chapman my desire for the SBC would be greatly lessened.
.-= Mark Lamprecht´s last blog ..Free Bibleworks8 Software? =-.
Mark,
I agree with you that ‘good ol’ boys’ frequently protect ecclesiological turf rather than biblical fidelity. All too familiar is the scenario of a deacon board manipulating the selection process to ensure that only like minds get in.
What I was concerned with above is not whether some younger men would contribute to the Task Force — there are probably many who would — but the discussion of such things in categories of age and geography alone. That is, the notion that older dudes from the upper South can’t possibly voice the evangelical concerns of whippersnappers from the left coast is patently wordly.
There are other categories that should inform such things, such as spiritual giftedness, passion, expertise and so forth. The comment thread questioned the prevalence of the South, Floridians, and Johnny Hunt’s networking, and lamented the lack of ethnic diversity and women.
These are political, not biblical, criteria.
For an example, by the time I receive an M.Div. and start pastoring, most would probably categorize me a ‘good ol’ boy,’ but I am definitely more aligned theologically with the whippersnappers in the 20s to 30s range.
But you might be trying to confuse this tired old brain by using such phrases as “greatly lessened.”
Mike Orr, pastor, FBC, Chipley, Fla.
John Drummond, St. Andrews Baptist Church, Panama City, Fla.
These are not mega-church pastors… And I agree with your point Matt, it would have been nice to see people from all over the convention on this committee but unless you have a committee of 200 or more I don’t know how you could do this.
The truth of the matter is that the convention has grown to such a point that it is no longer possible to have representation from all parties on our committees and boards. We have so much diversity now; Southeast, Southwest, Midwest, Northeast, West coast, Mega Church, Large Church, Small Church, Calvinist, Non-Calvinist, Traditional, Contemporary… the list goes on and on.
Not to mention that only 8500+ messengers representing only a faction of our churches just meet in convention to decide the future for us all… I hope that one day we can do a much better job of inclusion of all churches in the decision making process. Hopefully one day every church in the SBC (Including our Missionaries around the world) will have their voice heard in the convention, but this may only be a dream.
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
Todd,
I want to respectfully point something out where I think you might misunderstand and give others the wrong impression.
I don’t believe those who were on board with the GCR disagree at all. However, this statement implies ever so loosely that the above comments think we’ve lost.
Again, the implication is that we who’ve offered a bit of constructive criticism aren’t sure if we’ve decided to rally behind and lift up prayer those who’ve been appointed to the task force.
Brother, I assume you don’t really mean those implications, but that’s how it comes across, IMO.
I certainly hope there is enough balance. Time will tell and I am hopeful. And I still think it’s important to get pastor speaking at the SBC who are more representative of the SBC. That is, more “smaller” and “unknown” church pastors. The heart of the SBC is not the few mega-stars.
.-= Mark Lamprecht´s last blog ..Free Bibleworks8 Software? =-.
Great Post Mark…
.-= Amy Waddell´s last blog ..Frances Morrow by Eleece Parker =-.
John Drummond is not a pastor. He is a layman.
This looks like a great task force. The only thing that I dont like is… from what I understand….please correct me if I’m wrong… is that no true, small Church Pastors are on it. I mean, a huge percentage of the SBC is made up of Churches that have less than 200 in attendance on Sunday morning. This committee should have had more Pastors from that segment of the SBC world on it.
David
Agreed.
David,
It gives me great pleasure so say this….”I agree.”
Why is that?
.-= Amy Waddell´s last blog ..Frances Morrow by Eleece Parker =-.
Perhaps each task force member should form a six member advisory committee from which they could draw advice from a much broader segment of the SBC… I don’t think there is anything in the rules that says each member is prohibit from seeking advice is there?
Brother Omar… your last name would not start with a “D” would it? If so it is good to hear from you even if it is indirectly. And thanks for letting everyone know that John Drummond is a layman.
I can’t pass up an opportunity to agree with David because it happens so rarely.
It is true that small church pastors are largely anonymous but I think with a little effort a decent representation can be found. I’m not a fan of the mega church model but have no particular beef against any particular mega church pastor. I do reject that idea that they are somehow more qualified because they are “proven” because of the size or popularity of their church. If that were the case then we should be inviting Joel Osteen to tell us how to do things.
We all need to remember that Jonathan Edwards himself was a small, rural church pastor. I would love to have him on ANY task force!
Jesus called four stupid fishermen and made them extraordinary fishers of men. I guess He does not do that anymore….
Is stupid really the right word?
Would Jonathan Edwards been for drinking alcohol for pleasure?
David
Not sure, but Martin Luther sure would.
so would c.s. lewis, and apparently qohelet
.-= mike´s last blog ..acoustic tribute: justin king =-.
I don’t know about Jonathan Edwards’ personal conviction, but he was a Puritan, and the Puritans were moderationists.
Bill,
a “Moderationists” How dare you use that word in the SBC… You know full well that anyone who touches a drop of alcohol for pleasure, even a glass of champagne at your daughters wedding, is going straight to Hell.
Besides that John Edwards guy was not even a Southern Baptist so who cares what he thinks…
Smile, (Now that was fun!)
Greg: People are often very surprised when they learn that the Puritans were moderationists. It is interesting to note what notable Christians through the ages who would be barred from a leadership role in the SBC. Calvin, Luther, Bunyan, Lewis
Bill,
Yes, it is interesting who would be banned from Leadership in the SBC… what is also interesting is who in the SBC keeps beating the drum to ban all those who do not agree with them on alcohol and other third or forth tier issues.
In light of the passage of the GCR… that is the Great “Cooperation” Resurgence one would think that those beating the drum of separation would fall silent for… Oh, say a day or two. But according to David’s comment above I guess not.
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
well the Pharisees called these same men ignorant. So you can pick it apart if you would like.
Calvin also put people in jail for not going to Church, and had some executed for not being a part of his Church. Does that mean that we should follow his example?
Zwingli was known for using the service of prostitutes. When he was confronted with this by his Church leaders, he declared to them that he didnt seduce virgins, nor married women. And, the Church leaders told him it was ok then. Should we follow Zwingli’s example on this?
Maybe we should follow Zwingli’s moderationists view on this? lol.
The great Bible scholars of the past were great men of God in thier time and society that they lived in and grew up in….we can learn much from them. But, they were not infallible, and many times they were victims of thier circumstances, so to speak. Calvin lived in a society that beleived the state should rule the Church. Zwingli apparently lived in a society that believed having sex with prostitutes was ok. We would be against both of these things today. I believe we know better. We have years of enlightenment to build on…things which the reformers did not…coming out of the dark ages and the darkness of Catholicism.
Also, Greg Alford, your mean spirited comments are not well taken….I dont believe people are going to Hell just because they take a sip of liquor. Quit being so ridiculous.
David
David,
Sorry…. But where did I say “David believes people are going to Hell just because they take a sip of liquor”? I used a bit of sarcasm when addressing Bill in one of the above comments, but I neither addressed that comment to you or used your name. So please refrain from saying that I made a remark about you that I did not make.
Mean spirited? Me? LOL… that stands for “Laughing Out Loud”. This coming from the man who just harpooned/slandered Calvin and Zwingli without any provocation at all is somewhat humorous.
Now where is it that I have heard such slander of these two “Christian” Brothers before? O yes, now I remember it was from the Catholic apologetics that I heard such mean spirited things about the Reformers… David you sure are keeping questionable company for a Baptist. If I were you I would check my sources, and my sources, sources very carefully before I slandered one of God’s chosen.
Just because they are dead, and just because someone else said nasty things about them, does not mean that God will hold you guiltless of their slander.
David, what do you mean by my “comments are not well taken”? You are the one who came onto this post that had nothing to do whatsoever with alcohol and tried to stir things up by saying “Would Jonathan Edwards been for drinking alcohol for pleasure?” And now you are attempting do drag Calvin and Zwingli into the mix of things and you are saying that my comments are not taken?
Please David, you’re a big boy.
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
I was asked to provide some names of small church pastors for the task force. Names were recommended of true small church pastors. I am told that there is a chance at least one small church pastor may yet be added to the task force. Time will tell.
Les
.-= Les Puryear´s last blog ..Why the IMB Cutback on Missionaries Does Not Restrict God =-.
Thanks for letting us know this.
This will be interesting to see if it plays out that way.
Are there any African Americans, any hispanic, only one woman, for the most part old guard
The more things change the more they stay the same. I am less than optimistic that anything at all will change – but we will spend more money shuttling the Big Name, Anglo pastor/professional denominational worker back and forth to this meeting or that meeting
Jim raises a good point. I’m ignorant of how these things work. Will tithes and offerings given by folks in the pew be used to finance the work of this committee?
Greg,
I learned Church history in seminary. That’s where I learned about Calvin and Zwingli. I also know that Luther liked to drink strong, green, German beer.
It’s a part of history what these men believed and how they lived. This is what was taught to me.
David
Not by Catholics either, nor by anti-Reformers.
David
David,
Ok, I guess that settles it then… if you learned it in “Seminary” who am I to question what your professors said about Calvin and Zwingli… I mean we all know that Seminary Professors and History Books are inerrant, right?
The bottom like is you have not provide any of your sources now have you? You have not provided one single credible witness now have you? What Seminary? When? What Professor? What Church History Book? And what sources did those History Books quote for the information you cited about Calvin and Zwingli.
And are you 100% sure that the “original” sources for this information is not Anti-Reformation Catholic Apologetics?
David, I really do not wish to argue with you on this… I just want you to consider that the Bible warns us not to receive any accusation against any elder (living or dead) except if there are two actual witnesses to the act. I do not know if these men have done these things or not, and with all the slanderous accusations made against the Reformers by the Catholic Apologist throughout church history I don’t think anyone can say they know what the truth concerning these accusations are.
I will agree with you, and I think it safe to say, “that Luther liked to drink strong, green, German beer.” But then Jesus drank…. “Welch’s” right?
Grace Always,
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
Greg,
First of all, you really need to read Peter Lumpkin’s book “Alcohol Today.” I mean, it’s worth the price of the book just to get the quotes from the ancients and the Bible Scholars about yayin and shekar and oinos being a generic term meaning anything from grapes fresh off the vine to grape juice to fermented wine…and the context dictates which way to use it. It’s excellently written, exegetically sound, and very informative. Of course, those who already have thier minds made up and do not want to consider other views will not want to read it.
Also, Greg, I graduated from Mid America Baptist Seminary in Memphis, TN. Dr. Tom Nettles and Dr. Reginald Barnard were two of the Profs that I had for Church History and the History of Christianity. I graduated in 1988, so I am having a hard time remembering who brought out those little tidbits about the Reformers lifestyles and beliefs. But, I can assure you that I did not pull them out of thin air. I heard it taught.
David
David,
I have not read Peter Lumpkin’s book on alcohol and I have no intention to do so… Thanks, but no thanks on “anything” written by Lumpkin… If there has ever been a man who approached the research of a subject with “extreme bias”, a preconceived outcome, and a personal agenda it is Peter Lumpkin’s. I have had read much of Peter’s opinion on the blogs over the last few years and quite honestly I find much of his reasoning Biblically, historically, and logically “unsound”.
David, I do not think saying “I heard it taught” is going to be acceptable in God’s court. We do not accept such hearsay in the court of man, so why do we think God will accept or excuses it of us? Besides David, no one that I know of is a follower of Calvin or Zwingli, who are both sinner, but the Calvinist I know of are passionate followers of Jesus Christ. So why not just drop the whole let’s bash Calvin and Zwingli for accusation (true or false) that have been made against them hundreds of years ago, and let’s stick to discussing the issues that we face in the “SBC Today”; like how do we build greater cooperation in the SBC, how do we get the next generation of leadership onboard, and how do we ensure that more of our CP dollars actually go to missions work?
These are the things we should be discussion David, not the accused sins of Calvin and Zwingli, or even the issue of “Alcohol Today”.
Grace Always,
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
Greg,
Trying to discuss anything with you is like a dog chasing it’s tail. The only reason I brought Calvin and Zwingli and Luther into the discussion was because of other “old timers” were being discussed…you know, thier views on drinking alcohol and such. I wasnt bashing Calvin, nor Zwingli, nor Luther. Goodness gracious, man, get a hold on yourself.
Also, figures that you have such a closed mind about alcohol. You are convinced already. What a shame, because I’d bet that Peter’s book would change your mind. It’s very good, and it shows that the Bible condemns drinking fermented wine.
And, also, Greg, everything we do as a SBC is important…all that we do and stand on is important. It defines who we are and how we practice our faith and what kind of a witness to the world we will be.
David
David,
“Trying to discuss anything with you is like a dog chasing it’s tail.”
I could not agree more…
Your comments on Calvin and Zwingli remain for all to read… and yes it was bashing, and that is something you need to get a hold on.
My views on alcohol has actually changed over the years as I developed a much stronger respect for the Word of God than the wisdom of man… and no the Bible does not condemn the drinking of fermented wine (goodness David, there is no such thing as unfermented wine.)
I suppose that you and Peter would have us all believe the “ALL” the Bible translators to date have gotten it wrong and you and Peter are the only ones who have gotten it correct? The KJV, NAS, ASV, ESV, NKJV, NIV, NLT, NRS, RSV, GNT, The Message,
And the Holman Christian Standard (The Baptist Version)… and all the hundreds of language scholars who worked on them for years have translated the word for wine wrong all this time. Wow David! That’s a pretty arrogant position for you and Peter to take, but if that’s what you think Peter’s research proves then I guess you guys should release you own version of the Bible
I just can’t wait for the King David/Peter Version of the Bible to be released and see how it reads when you replace the word “wine” with “grape juice” throughout both the Old and New Testaments.
Here’s a little preview:
And the vine said unto them, Should I leave my “grape juice”, which cheereth God and man, (Jud.9:13) — Who knew God loved Welch’s so much?
Grace Always,
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..Hunt names 18-member GCR Task Force =-.
Hey Greg,
I almost don’t want to don’t want to step into this argument between the two of you but I could not resist at this point after your last post. I have studied some on the word “Wine” throughout the Bible as well I am a lover of Jewish traditions because much of what and how we practice our methods evolved from the Jewish faith and their traditions. A much more influential pastor and bible scholar than I once stated that after his extensive studies the anything that had to do with a grape is noted as wine in scripture. Now I know there are specific references to the word grape and to the word wine but he is saying that early writers used the word wine more often than not when referring to anything that had to do with the grape. Case in point the Lords supper, we all know that the Jews according to tradition use un-leavened bread during the Passover feast. (Matthew 26:17) According to Jewish tradition before the feast begins the head of the house searches out his house looking for yeast because it is a type or symbol of sin. When he finds yeast he troughs it out of the house for the period of the feast. Now we all know that yeast is the active ingredient that makes bread rise and that unleavened bread has no yeast. My question to you is this why would they not use yeast because it was a symbol of sin in their bread but drink fermented wine? The active ingredient for the fermentation to take place in wine is the same they consider a symbol of sin during this feast time? It is therefore my understanding this is but one of many references to the word wine when it was juice, unfermented juice of the grape.
Secondly I am sure you would agree that I am not the preacher or teacher that Jesus was even though you have never heard me preach. I am no where close in practice but I feel that Jesus had to at least meet the pastoral guidelines that Paul gives to all Pastors in 1st Timothy 3. The Greek word for wine here is “paroinos” meaning drunken. In light of this scripture, what I stated in the above paragraph and what proverbs says about rulers drinking fermented wine I do not believe Jesus ever drank fermented wine.
I hope this helps you but if not OOOO well I tried. If anyone else does not agree with this post OOO well sorry. Many of our questions will not be answered till we stand before the Lord. I, on this issue would rather not get myself in trouble for believing it was OK nor would I want to persuade others to believe that drinking wine is OK. On the other hand I love grape juice.
Kyle,
You are not butting in, and your comments are always welcome… I have no problem with anyone who holds a different opinion than I do on this issue. After all it is a third or forth tier issue and no one will be in Hell because he chose a glass of Welch’s or a glass of wine with his/her evening meals.
If we did not have those in the SBC who continue to make this issue a first tier issue, and one used to exclude other Baptist from fellowship, participation, and cooperation in the SBC I would not even be discussing it.
I respect your position and would never break fellowship with you over it.
Grace Always,
.-= Greg Alford´s last blog ..The Rise of Passionate Missionary Calvinism in the SBC =-.
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