Many readers of SBC Voices are well aware of Pastor Les Puryear. While you may not agree with him on everything he has always shown to be a thoughtful, honest thinker. I, personally, have benefited from his blog and I am glad he has agreed to do this interview. Recently he published a 140 page study on the book of Revelation. I wanted to ask him a few questions about it and his responses are below:
Questions:
1) On your blog, you said that this book comes from you going through the Book of Revelation over a 3 year period with your church: What are the main reasons you decided to publish your notes?
Over three years of Wednesday night bible studies on Revelation I handed out 140 pages of detailed outline notes. I saw our folks had papers scattered everywhere so I decided to use lulu.com to publish the notes in a more convenient format for our folks. Someone asked if other churches might benefit from this study and so I decided to make the publication available to anyone who wanted a ready-made study on Revelation from a historic premillennial view.
2) Many people approach Revelation as a “book to be solved:” how do you resist that temptation? What benefit did this have in building up your church?
I’m not sure I resisted the temptation to “solve” Revelation. I tried to be true to the text as we went along. I’m always advising our people to “read what the Bible says, not what you want it to say.” I tried to take that approach as well. In regard to benefit of building up the church, I hope our folks now have a better understanding about what will happen and where the course of human history is moving. The main point I hope I was able to get across is the sovereignty of God in all things. I think most of our folks now have an understanding of why the church will be on the earth during the tribulation and that they should be prepared to have their faith tested and tried.
3) Did you find anything in your study that you really hadn’t seen before?
I think Mounce, Ladd, and Easley helped me understand the vision of the four horsemen in a better way. Whereas before this study, I was unsure as to the significance of the four horsemen as mentioned in chapter 6, I learned they symbolize forces of God operating in judgment throughout history. When I learned that 188 million people had perished in the 20th century alone from war, genocides, and famine, it helped me view the symbolic significance of the four horsemen in a different light. In the four horsemen, we have a preterist perspective in the judgments of God upon humankind in the past and present as well as a futurist view that judgment will continue. In the book, I have a very detailed listing of the wars, famines, and genocides and how many people were affected in the 20th century. I think most people would be surprised at the devastation and how many people actually died in this manner.
4) On your blog you offered your study for people that are wanting a study from a perspective different than Dispensationalism: why do you think Dispensationalism has become so prominent in the SBC?
I think that’s hard to say. I grew up in a SBC church in South Carolina and I never remember hearing about a “rapture” or a “great tribulation.” I became exposed to these ideas when I was in my 20′s from shopping at a Christian book store in Hickory, NC. I remember seeing a postcard with a picture of Jesus in the sky and people flying in the air. I bought some book son the subject and thus began my introduction to dispensationalism. As I read the books and sorted through the biblical proof texts, I did not agree with the conclusions the authors were coming to from the scriptures they cited. Thus, my own investigation of the topic led me to reject dispensationalism. Perhaps my experience was somewhat different from many others as I was not raised with this teaching in the churches I attended. I think the rise of dispensationalism in the SBC came from popular speakers such as David Jeremiah, John MacArthur, John Hagee, and other dispensationalists. Also, apparently dispensationalism has been a popular teaching in Western NC as well. Where that came from originally, I don’t know.
5) In your opinion, what are the most important differences between Dispensationalism and Historic Premillennialism?
The book discusses different eschatological views and their strengths and weaknesses. Dispensationalism deals with more than just eschatology so I will limit my remarks to the differences in eschatology as that is prominent in the book of Revelation. Dispensationalists are much more literal in their interpretation of apocalyptic literature. The major difference is that dispensationalists believe that Christ will “rapture” His church to be with Him in heaven prior to the Great Tribulation. Historic Premillennialists believe that the church will go through the Great Tribulation and will be protected by God from the outpouring of His wrath. Many Christians will be martyred by the Antichrist but Christians will be protected from God’s wrath upon the Antichrist and His followers. Dispensationalists believe that the second coming of Christ has two stages: 1) the pre-tribulation rapture of the church, and 2) the physical return of Christ with His people after God deals with the Antichrist and his people. Historic Premillennialists believe that the return of Christ has one stage, that is, when Christ returns to earth after the tribulation, His people who are alive will rise to meet Him in the air and come with Him as He descends from heaven to earth. Another difference is that Dispensationalists believe that the Jewish nation will be left on the earth after the church is raptured out of the earth prior to the tribulation. Historic premillennialists believe that the new Israel of the New Testament is the church and those Jewish people who come to faith in Christ are part of the NT church and not a separate entity of God’s people who has to be dealt with in a special manner.
My major concern about dispensationalism is that it teaches Christians to hope for escape from persecution. I fear that many Christians who have been taught they will not have to endure persecution as in the tribulation, may jettision their faith when they are faced with real persecution either prior to the tribulation or during the tribulation. I fear they may question the entire teachings of Christianity if they have to endure persecution when they have taught they will escape it. I prefer to prepare my people for persecution so they will not surprised when it comes and they will be equipped to endure until the end through loving faith in Christ, even in the midst of persecution.
6) Being a Historic Premillennialist, I assume you interpret Revelation with a “futurist” approach? Is this correct or do you also hold to some principles in the preterist or idealist schools also?
I believe there are some things in Revelation that have already occurred and other things that have yet to occur. So I guess you could say that I have preterist tendencies in some places and futurist in others. However, I did not go into Revelation with any agenda other than examining the word of God.
7) Throughout your study, what did you find to be the one major theme of the book of Revelation? What are some other important, but secondary themes that you found?
I believe the main theme of Revelation is that Jesus, who is the Lord of history, will return without fail to earth to bring history to its proper conclusion. Secondary themes include the sovereignty of God in history, the wrath of God against evil, the holiness and justice of God, the limited, but vicious power of evil, and the person of Christ: slaughtered Lamb and conquering King.
8 ) How do you deal with the tension between the literalism and symbolism that many people struggle with in the book of Revelation?
Personally I don’t believe there is a great deal of tension between literalism and symbolism in this book. The book of Revelation is apocalyptic literature and, as such, the overarching characteristic of apocalyptic literature is symbolism. There are few occasions for literal interpretation in apocalyptic literature.
9)What passages in Revelation are the most difficult to explain from a Historic Premillennial perspective?
I cannot think of any passages in Revelation that do not align with the historic premillennial perspective.
10) What passages do you think most clearly point to a Historic Premillennial understanding?
A right understanding of the 144,000 symbolism and the marking of God’s people for protection during the tribulation as discussed in chapter 7.
11) If you had to summarize what God is saying to the church through the book of Revelation in one paragraph, what would you say?
I’ll give you a paraphrase of Robert Mounce to answer this question: The book of Revelation serves to inform its readers of the first century and readers of all subsequent time, that God is sovereign and His eternal plan for the human race will be carried through. During the interim, there will be hostility and opposition, but what He has decreed must come to pass. People will be faced with the crucial decision of pledging their allegiance to the beast or to the Lamb. Those who choose to wear the mark of the beast will ultimately share his fate. Those who choose the Lamb will ultimately be brought into eternal fellowship with God as the New Jerusalem. Believers are encouraged to remain faithful to the trust and wait expectantly for the return of Christ, who will forever put away all evil and usher in the eternal state of blessedness.
{ 5 comments }
The amount of time involved in a study of Revelation can scarcely be imagined. I have somewhere between 300-500 volumes in eschatology and still lack in many areas. My son is a postribulation premill. I suppose I am probably in what use to be caled the old post-mil, camp, with the proviso that it should be called crises millenialism as we all must through many tribulations enter the kingdom. The Chinese believers had a hard time due to thinking they would be raptured out, when the communists took over. The many antichrists as well as the failure of a multitude of millenial schemes and the book of Jonah and the prophecy, literal, that did not turn out as it said (which meant the prophet should have been stoned), because aother actor is involved in prophcies, namely, the intention of the one who gave the prophecy (and I do not mean the prophet). Jonah was the one who demolished my pre-trib, pre-mil scheme, and Daniel helped with the idea of the stone smiting the old image in its feet until it destroyed it and became a great mountain and filled the whole earth. It also did not help to see how many writers of the pre-trib., per-mil schemes made some big bucks and lived high on the hog. Likewise, it did not help to know that the plan to divert money from Christin missions to Israel was planned an referred to in the 19th century. Also the main Jews behind the origin of modern Israel were not the Sephardic Jews (the actual descendants of the Jews of our Lord’s day), but Askenazi (sp?) Jews, the decendants of a nation in southern Russia that were converted to Judaism in the 6-7 century A.D. There was quite a verbal tilt between the two sets during the time of the founding of Israel. Most Christians are unaware of this fact. Again, I found out how the Jews really felt toward Christian and that sort of dampened my fervor in support of that nation. This does not mean I am anti-semitic. I had a member in my second pastorate who had taken pictures of one of the smaller concentration camps for the Jews in World War II andthey gave me nightmares. On the other hand, I recognize that just like us they can do stupid – even wicked things. None of us can afford to give unqualified support to evil. We must stand for what is right, regardless of who is involved. My prayer is that we shall have a Third Great Awakening, that we shall win the whole earth and all of the Jews, too, at that time. Besdes Christias are spiritual Jews as Paul clearly shows in Roms.2 and elsewhere.
I just have one question!
How many charts are included in the book? Everyone knows that good black/white charts with 1870′s printing press size 6 fonts are the hermeneutical key to unlocking the book of revelations.
Good interview to read; thanks, Matt and Les.
Josh,
LOL! No charts. Sorry.
Les
No charts?!? Then what did you use as the backdrop on your platform as you taught?
Pastor Puryear, I find myself believing similarly as I read what you have briefly outlined here. I see the value of the preterist consideration as well as a futurist view with the observation that inasmuch as this is a revelation of Christ, John has done so with imagery that reflects the suffering of Christ in the suffering of his people throughout history as they continue to glorify God; yet that his people will be spared the judgment. It’s the gospel manifested throughout time through all manner of tribulation.
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