Here is a link to Lifeway’s Southern Baptist Compensation Study. Their work is impressive! You can sort the records based on church membership, average attendance, church’s budget, education level of staff, years of experience, age, state, staff position, etc. This resource will help pastor search committees and churches better discern what they should pay their pastors and other staff members. You can even enter your own church’s information, and it will automatically create a custom report for you. So, if your church has enough money to negotiate what you pay your pastor or staff, this resource will help you discern their average pay; however, if your church has a limited supply of money, it will help you discern whether or not your pastor should be full time or biovocational.
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Now, if only we had a compensation study of the seminaries and other entities.
In Georgia the average package for churches with budgets ranging from $150k to $400k is mid-60s. I found it interesting that moving from a church in the lower category (150-200k) to upper in that range (300-400k) showed a relatively small increase.
William, I assume that’s because the churches in the 300-400k range spend their extra money on extra staff?
Jared,
You’re probably right.
This is a helpful tool. There is an association of church business administrators that also produces one of these that includes other denominations.
But it is only a tool.
The number of churches from reporting categories is VERY important.
The SBC study would be most helpful if it had all 44,000 churches. I believe that the ones who report are often the churches that are most sophisticated, and they often pay the most. This means the data could be skewed on the high side.
As in most things, there are 2 extremes – treating a pastor like a slave or treating him like a king. Those are to be avoided.
Also, it is important, I believe, to have a guage (an informal one) on what the people in your congregation make. If the pastor is way over or way under, that could be a problem.
And finally, although I am a firm believer in “it’s nobody’s business” what a pastor is paid – EXCEPT for the members of the congregation (because it’s their money), another good rule to go by is if the salary were published in the local newspaper, what would the community think?
We obviously can’t be beholden to what others think, but if there is any sense of embarrassment in publishing the number (because it’s too low) or the initial reaction is to keep it quiet because it’s too high, then something may be wrong.
To give you an example, we have people in our congregation who are medical residents at the local teaching hospital, District Attorneys, Public Defenders and other groups. All of these people spent years in school, excelled at some level, and are in very responsible positions.
We often interview people coming right out of seminary with much lower qualifications than these other groups, and I am astounded, at times, by the sense of expectation about salaries.
This is an important issue that requires active lay involvement and openness, and knowledgeable decision making.
Surveys like this are extremely helpful.
Louis, I think a pastor should be supported largely based on the size of his family or cost of living. Thus, a pastor with more experience and education yet with a smaller family, should be paid less than a pastor with less experience and education, but with a larger family. This is what the Scripture seems to infer, instead of based on education, experience, etc. I’ve been in ministry for 11 years now, I have a B.A. in biblical studies, and an M.A.R. in Biblical Studies from Liberty and an M.Div. from SBTS; and I’m working on a ThM from SBTS. Am I paid what I’m worth on paper based on a secular examination? No; but, who cares? My church pays me enough to feed my family. My wife stays home with our 2 children. They faithfully provide for us in the community in which we live. They even allow me to work some on the side if need be so that my family is provided for. This is thoroughly biblical.
Second, I don’t think church members need to know what the pastor makes “because it’s their money.” Biblically, once they give, it’s the church’s money; and the church as a whole decides what to do with it. It’s a very Western idolatrous idea that we’ll withhold our money if we disagree with how it’s being used. I give because God loves a cheerful giver, not because I agree with everything the body decides; and I’m the pastor! We’re Baptists (congregational); thus, the entire local body decides what to pay the pastor; and his salary is accountable to the body, not to any individuals.
It’s not only their money, Jared, it’s their church and you are their pastor. I don’t buy your presumption that because a member expects to know where the church’s money is being spent, they will withold it.
You offer a rather ridiculous line of reasoning that the “entire” church decides what to pay the pastor but no individual may expect to know what that amount is.
But I acknowledge that with your position of non-transparency and non-openness, you would make a good candidate for a megachurch pastor.
William, I’m fine with everyone knowing, just not because it’s the money of individuals. It’s the church’s money.
Where did I say that an individual shouldn’t know where the money is going? I never said that. I’m just against the notion that they deserve to know because “it’s their money.” Technically, it’s the entire church’s money, and the entire church decides what to do with it. Thus, the various salaries are accountable to the church, not to individuals. Every member has a right to know where the money is going; however, the money is accountable to the body, not to individuals.
Our church has struck a middle ground on the privacy debate. We notify the church when we vote the budget what our staff salary/benefits will be. We do not publish these figures, but we announce them. When we publish our monthly reports, we do not publish those figures – just a general staff compensation line item. Any church member who wishes can come to the church office and be shown a list of compensation categories.
No one has ever asked. As long as they know we are just trying to maintain confidentiality without keeping secrets, no one really cares.
Dave, I’ve heard that Holly Miller does this at Sevier Heights in Knoxville, TN. He encouraged it to help prevent jealousy among the staff. Is this part of your reasoning as well?
Dave, to clarify, I didn’t hear it as in “hearsay.” I attended a pastoral training at his church for a semester about 8 years ago; and it was one of the questions asked by one of the other pastors.
We do it so that people in the church know that we are not trying to put something over on them with pastoral salaries while also maintaining respectful confidentiality.
Each of us on staff knows what the others on staff make.
Jared, we agree then. I may have misread you.
I have heard secrecy on salaries justified on the basis of possible staff jealousy, an absurd rationalization for witholding information from the congregation. That presumes either (a) highly immature staff, an infantilzation unwarrented and undeserved by God’s servants, (b) a staff salary structure that is unfair, unreasonable, and unjustifiable, and/or (c) a level of compensation of the senior pastor that he is afraid for the staff and church as a whole to be aware of.
It’s tough to beat the old baptist axiom – ‘trust the Lord and tell the people.’
I suppose the subject is worth its own topic and discussion.
William, what about sbc entities? Do u think their salaries should be revealed as well?
Jared, I’ve thought about the salaries of sbc entities whenever the salaries of pastors are discussed. Or whenever I hear of pastors struggling to support their families.
Sometimes the argument is made that a seminary president could get salary X with his education and qualifications. However, I’ve not heard this same argument applied to pastors. And then local and national SBC organizations need funding which helps support their salaries, which may be much more than the pastors’, I wonder why the organizations seem to be more important than the local church.
I wonder why we don’t put more emphasis on taking care of our pastors in light of how entity heads compensated?
Mark, are there any financial reports out there that include the salaries of our entity leaders and employees?
Yes. I have always argued for transparency for executive staff in denominational entities.
I have asked some of our entities for salary information and have been given the salary structure, levels though not exact figures for a given employee.
William, do you have any articles on these levels? Or, were you asked to keep them private?
Jared:
I saw your response and then the clarifications, so I think that we are in agreement.
But to flesh this out a bit more, I believe that any church or other non-profit who accepts contributions from people should be open to the people who give to support it.
I am not in favor of people withholding or individuals trying to control the church based on their giving.
But I am in favor of disclosure of every penny to the people who give the pennies. I do agree, as Dave has suggested, that there is a time to disclose. We do not discuss or debate salaries in large congregational meetings, because that is not where the decisions about salaries are made. But the salaries are open to any member.
Also, the way we handle staff is that they can find out about the salaries of other staff members (since they are members), but we would frown on it if they did.
Finally, you mentioned that a salary should be based on a person’s need (size of family/cost of living).
Do you know that is a Marxist philosophy? “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need?”
I do not believe the scripture teaches that at all.
What if a young staff member believes that he and his wife are going to have or adopt 20 children, like the Duggers? Do they have no responsiblity to determine whether their finances would allow them to do that? Or is the church a blank check to them?
So, that with the birth of each kid, they get a $20,000/year raise? When the kids hit college and grad school, are they simply supposed to forward the tuition bills to the church?
What if a guy with 6 kids applies for a job at the church, and another guy with 2 kids shows up? Do you actually believe the Bible teaches that if the church wants to hire the guy with 6 kids it must cough up a multiple of the salary of the guy with 2 kids. Or can the church decide what the job will pay, and offer it to both, and let them decide whether they can live on that pay?
I believe that the scriptural admononitions regarding pay are there to see that people are not abused. If it can afford to do so, a church should pay its employees a reasonable wage based on the area and the church’s resources. Church employees should not be mistreated.
But I think it is a stretch to suggest that a person’s needs determine what his employer must pay him.
It is better to go by a more objective standard, such as the church salary survey that is the topic of this post. That will help us guage whether we are in the ballpark on salaries.
Basing salaries based on a person’s need is much more subjective. Some people perceive their needs differently. Some guys think they need a new car, private school etc. Maybe they do. I am not going to get into defining for some other person what their legitimate needs are. What a silly conversation to have.
But I would be willing to work at determining what is an appropriate salary for a particular job, and would try to be as objective as possible.
Thanks.
Louis, Marxism? I’m arguing in the case of pastoral staff, not in the case of all humanity. Although, the Bible does argue that a man is worthy of his wages.
You said, “What if a young staff member believes that he and his wife are going to have or adopt 20 children, like the Duggers? Do they have no responsiblity to determine whether their finances would allow them to do that? Or is the church a blank check to them? So, that with the birth of each kid, they get a $20,000/year raise? When the kids hit college and grad school, are they simply supposed to forward the tuition bills to the church?”
They should talk this out with the church they’re serving. If a pastor is young when he starts at a church, he could potentially have several children over the years. His expenses would increase. If the church cannot provide, then he’ll need to work some outside the church; or, he may need to move on to another ministry.
You said, “But I think it is a stretch to suggest that a person’s needs determine what his employer must pay him.”
Pastors are expected to faithfully provide for their families. Many churches expect their pastors to only work at their church. Thus, they should compensate them as a result. You can compare a pastor’s salary to the surrounding community, but what job is comparable? What other job in the community is on call 24/7? What other job is surrounded by sickness, death, joy, etc. in the likeness of a pastor?
Finally, pastoral staff are different because we’re involved in work in which only God gives the increase. How can you pay a pastor based on his “skill” when this skill doesn’t always translate to growth? God alone gives the increase; thus, it’s impossible to argue that you’re paying a pastor based on his “skill.” Now, he may be more skilled with the Scriptures; but, this varies from individual to individual. There are many PhD and D.Min. grads that I wouldn’t want in my pulpit; while there are many pastors that don’t have any degrees or much experience that I would allow in my pulpit. The person who is the most faithful to the Word and handles the Word and doctrine unto God’s glory, should be paid more; not the pastor who has the most degrees or the most experience.
The Bible tells us that faithful pastors are worthy of double honor (wages); especially those who labor in the Word and doctrine (1 Tim. 5:17). For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves his wages.” (1 Tim. 5:18)
What church do you know that says, “Let’s give our pastor double wages since he rules faithfully and labors in the Word and doctrine faithfully”? Today, it’s all about degrees and experience. Ask the young guys on here that are trying to get their foot in the door of ministry; and they’ll agree. Churches won’t even give them a phone call or an interview because they don’t have experience or degrees.
Hmmm, the pastor as a uniquely beleaguered employee. I knew it was coming. I suggest you not try this on laypeople who regularly are assigned on call duty (health care folks, technicians, etc).
A given church may certainly give consideration to the family size and other needs of their pastor and staff but market forces are the main determinant of compensation levels. If you are in a church of a decent size and budget, there will be a long line of clergy with resumes in hand if you resign. Large supply of qualified candidates for such churches. But maybe you can get Obama, or Frank Page to repeal the law of supply and demand.
The average package levels are appropriate.
William, you seem to be looking for a fight that isn’t here. I’ve read your articles dealing with this subject; and I agree with them. I’m not arguing that pastors are “uniquely beleaguered employees,” I’m arguing that it’s not sufficient to merely compare them to another vocation. You’re assuming we disagree on this before you read my comments.
Health-care professionals!? I’ve never been paid like a health-care professional; but, I think this is one of the best comparisons concerning the demand that is on a pastor. Hospice workers for example get 6-weeks vacation. I don’t know any pastor that gets this much; and we’re often surrounded by sickness and death on a weekly basis.
I’ve often heard churches argue that a pastor should make what a local teacher makes in the public school system; but, I’ve never heard them argue that a pastor should get as much time off as a public school teacher.
If pastors are viewed as employees, then churches should be consistent. Find a job that mimics as closely as possible what a pastor does, then pay accordingly, give vacations accordingly, pay for retirement accordingly, etc. Churches largely however do not do this.
Once again, I believe my church faithfully provides for me and my family.
I agree. Good analysis.
Jared, sorry if my laconic reply seems combative. I don’t mean for it to be…more smilie faces maybe?
Forgive me for saying it but no pastor deals with dying and death like hospice workers. No pastor has the regular on-call hours like many technicians that I know. But thank you for NOT saying that preaching a 30 minute sermon is like working an eight hour day.
Please, few vocations are compensated for the work that they do but rather for the level and scarcity of their skills, experience, and training. A lot of people can do what we do. A ton of people want our jobs if we were to quit. We get paid mainly based on market factors. Sorry, that’s just the truth.
…but I’m certainly agreeable to considering you me and all the brethren as being special, as being called by God Almighty to this work…I just understand that it doesn’t translate into pay and benefits.
I’ve served three churches in about 30 years. All have been fair, reasonable, and amenable to discussions of financial matters, but I do wish I could get another 30k or so for my vast experience, wide-ranging pastoral skills, wonderful personality, and unparalleled wisdom…
BTW, do you see a compensation package of $60-70k or so as being inadequate?
William, I agree that we don’t deal with dying and death the same way hospice workers do; but, I assume we’re more intimately involved with families than hospice workers are… months and years after the death of individuals. I minister to hurting people on a weekly basis in some form or fashion. It can take the wind out of you if you care for the people intimately; and I do. Christ is our refuge even now; the Lord gives and takes away.
Concerning the “preaching a 30 minute sermon is like working an 8-hour day”; yeah, I’ve heard that; and I totally agree with you. I’ve also heard pastors compare preaching to giving birth. When I hear this, I always picture a pastor laying down on the stage in his suit with his legs up in the air and pushing. I was an eye-witness to my 2 children being born, and I don’t think sermon preparation or delivery is like that; though I do understand the reference (carrying the sermon, nurturing it, and then delivering it…).
Finally, concerning the 60-70k package, I think that’s a good amount. I make 20-30k less than this, and I believe my family is provided for. I think churches need a better criteria for paying their pastors. I know pastors that are expected by their churches to make less than they need, yet they are not free to work outside the church. This places undue strain on a pastor’s family.
Finally (for real this time), if we’re paid based on what we can do that few other pastors can, then I’ll never make much money. I’m just a plain jane preacher, a one-horse preacher of Christ crucified and raised from the dead. I’m nothing special. Any pastor that is faithful to the Word of God should be able to follow my ministry with little problems. I’m not a guy you would travel to hear preach; but, I’m faithful where I’m at (my goal anyways). For God’s glory alone.
As far as I know, the salaries for SBC entity heads is in the file folder right next to the “completely harmless” records of the GCRTF.
A pastor should be paid what he and the pastoral search committee and other relevant committees agree to that the pastor should be paid.
If the pastor isn’t negotiating with the church when he’s coming in, then that’s his fault. The pastor also needs to be going to bat for his staff as well during budget planning.
Bill, to be fair, if a pastor tries to “negotiate” with a church when he’s coming in, then he’s often viewed as a hireling. Pastors aren’t supposed to do it for the money (and I agree to an extent; but, if I don’t provide for my family then I’m worse than an unbeliever. Family comes first before the local church). Churches believe that “If God is “calling” a pastor to this church, then he should trust God to provide for him.” What churches don’t realize is that those who labor in the gospel should make their living from the gospel (1 Cor. 9:1-15; specifically 1 Cor. 9:14). Thus, God expects you to provide for your pastor. If you’re benefiting from his ministry, then provide for his ability to minister.
This is all well and good in a perfect world with altruistic members of the church talking with the pastor coming into the church.
But here in the real world, the pastor is going to viewed as a hireling regardless of whether or not he negotiates. And you’re right, the pastor isn’t supposed to do it for the money but the pastor also has use every opportunity to only provide for his own family but also set the stage for his tenure as the pastor of that church. If the pastor comes in and isn’t willing to fight for his compensation package, then when he wants to start working with the committees of the church, he’ll already start off at a disadvantage.
And let’s be further honest, the pastor search committee is often formed from the people viewed as the power brokers of the church or their spouses/stand ins. The pastor is probably negotiating with those whom he will have a majority of the headaches during his tenure. The pastor has to set the stage from Day 1.
I’ve seen several pastor search committees. They ranged from a group almost like you described (they wanted a pastor that would revert the church from its current 800+ attendance to its initial 150+ small country church) to a group that would make the judges on American Idol seem tame (when they discovered that the pastor wouldn’t acquiesce on their agendas, they destroyed his ministry). But every group had ties to the people/families that greased many of the cogs of the church so to speak.
Is it wrong? Probably.
However, the pastor has to negotiate in the world we live in.
Too many people subscribe to “Lord, keep him humble and we’ll keep him poor…”
The one thing I find necessary when using this website is to add nearby states into your calculation when submitting a request for average salaries (unless you are in a larger state convention). In my state (Iowa) there are not enough responses to the survey to generate a statistically accurate answer to the query so to resolve that I usually add several of the nearby states in the Midwest to round out the averages. If you are in Georgia or Texas, no worries.
Shaull did a study a few years back (while he was still at Winterset), but that was so long ago (Shaull is really old) that it isn’t much good now.
I have read several comments regarding ministerial pay packages,
benefits packages. The only reasonable conclusion I can come to, is
to rely on the average pay given to pastors in the SBC. as a starting
point along with information received through previous ministries.
I also believe that pastoral benefits (ie; vacation time, education etc.),
should be considered. I do not think vacations should be dropped, just because he’s coming from another church. If he has been FAITHFUL in the ministry all of his years,his benefits should remain intact. God’s house is God’s house. A preacher,Teacher, deacon,
Etc. is called by God NOT Man.
In saying all of this, I still remained confused in determining a pastor’s salary. If he is truly called by God, Yes, God will provide.
It is the duty of the individual pastor to ensure he takes his questions if any to the Lord and let that guide him in His decision
if that is the true will of God, or a false prophet encouraging him
for a down fall.
The Lord will prevail!!
Thanks,
Ken
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