There Is No Other Hand

by Dave Miller on June 4, 2014 · 66 comments

One of my favorite movies is the classic musical “Fiddler on the Roof.” Earlier this year, my wife and I took a few days off in Minneapolis and went up to Chanhassen Dinner Theatre to see the Broadway version. Fiddler, if there are any who do not know the story, is a struggle of the traditionalist Tevye in a rapidly changing world, and focuses on his three daughters’ marriages.

The first daughter, Tzeitel, is matched to an old, widowed butcher, but is in love with the poor tailor Motel. At first, Tevye is outraged, but he gives the matter some thought. “On the one hand.” “On the other hand.” He goes back and forth and finally decides to give his permission for the wedding (and concocts a brilliant dream to explain the matter to his wife). Later, his second daughter, Hodel, falls in love with a political radical and informs her father they are marrying and asks for his blessing only, not his permission. Again, he goes back and forth. “On the one hand.” “On the other hand.” Finally, he decides to give his blessing (and, he asserts, his permission).

The crisis comes when his youngest daughter, Chava, elopes with a Russion boy, a Gentile. She meets Tevye on the road and begs him not to reject her. He is torn to the core and goes through his internal debate again. “On the one hand.” “On the other hand.” Just as it seems that he is going to give in to his heart and accept his daughter’s marriage, he stiffens and says,

“No. There is no other hand.” To yield on this matter was impossible, denying the core of his being, rejecting his faith and no matter how much he loved his daughter, it was something he could not do.

I am an “on the other hand” kind of guy. I believe that many of the issues over which we fight are more multi-faceted than we want to admit. A friend once asked me, “Is there any fence you won’t try to straddle?” I had observed that in the debate about “Christ-centered hermeneutics” at the last convention, I thought all three presenters had made some good points and my position fell in the middle between the extremes. “On the one hand.” “On the other hand.” The depths of the Scriptures are not nearly as easily systematized as we would often like. To my point there is usually a counterpoint. When I look on the one hand, there is usually an “other hand” that needs to be considered.

But sometimes, “there is no other hand.” On some issues, there is no middle ground. I think that truth is on the side of “middle ground” on many of the issues we discuss on blogs. But if we try to straddle the fence on certain issues, on those issues for which there is no middle, we damage the faith.

Sunday, I read a post from Patheos concerning Danny Cortez, a Southern Baptist pastor in the LA area who recently rejected “traditional” (he avoided the word “biblical”) teaching on homosexuality and was attempting to embrace what he called a third way, a middle ground teaching on homosexuality. It is hard to see what he means by a middle ground here. What he called the third way is really just acquiescence to the cultural mandate of tolerance over the biblical teaching. He chose a side and called it the middle. Homosexuals will be welcomed in his church, even those actively and unrepentantly participating in homosexual relationships. Those who hold to biblical views are leaving the church after their “conscious uncoupling” on June 8.

Al Mohler, in an article released Monday, has argued convincingly that there is no middle ground on this topic, “Third Way”. “There is no other hand.” Either one believes homosexual behavior is a sin or one does not. There are minor issues on which biblical Christians disagree, but at the root is a black and white issue – either homosexual relations are a sin or they are not. Cortez has not adopted a “Third Way”, he has abandoned the Bible as his authority and embraced cultural compromise. He is not straddling the fence, he has taken a giant leap over it. On this issue, there is no other hand.

I am going to remain a middle ground man on most issues. I do not think that is a lack of conviction or a biblical compromise, but I sincerely believe that in most of our arguments the extremes are guilty of grabbing one piece of the truth and pretending it is everything. The Bible is a book of balance and most of the time the truth is not on the edges but balancing the Bible’s multihued teachings.

Most of the time. Not always.

Sometimes, like Tevye, we have to set our feet in cement and say, “There is no other hand.” Sometimes, we have to say with Luther, “Here I stand.”

I still believe that most of the issues we argue about are not as black and white as we make them out to be. I’m a committed, uncompromising, devoted, antinomist, middle-grounder and will remain so because of my study of God’s Word. But we cannot compromise where no middle ground is possible.There are issues on which attempts at middle ground are impossible, by the very nature of them.

  • Either the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground. Oh, we can realize that our interpretations are not always correct, but there is no other hand on inerrancy. Either you believe the Bible is God’s perfect Word, or you believe to one degree or another that it contains errors.
  • Either Jesus is the ONLY way to God or he is not. One must consciously repent of sin and place his faith in Christ to be saved, or there are other paths of salvation besides Christ. There is no middle ground. “Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through him.” There is no other hand.
  • Either salvation is by grace through faith alone without works, or works have a part in salvation. You can’t have salvation mostly by grace and a little bit by works. It has to be one or the other. There is no middle ground, no other hand.

Pretty much all the fundamental doctrines of the faith are like this. EIther/or. No middle ground. Either God is Trinity or not. Either Christ was God Incarnate or he was not. There is no other hand.

Most political issues are middle ground issues. Good points with biblical bases can be made on both sides of the immigration debate. Issues like taxes, healthcare, and other hot-button topics can be debated from scripture. But some issues are clear-cut, black and white, one side or the other, no middle ground issues.

  • Abortion has no middle ground. If life is sacred and begins at conception, then taking it through abortion is heinous, murderous and despicable. To enter a mother’s womb to kill her baby is a brutal, evil act. There is no other hand, for Christians. Other than certain debates over the actual health of the mother, and perhaps children of rape and incest (rare issues) there is no other hand on abortion.

And this is what makes the homosexuality issue so tough for those of us who refuse to turn our backs on or dishonestly redefine biblical teaching on the subject of homosexuality. Yes, we want to be loving and kind to homosexuals. We want to present the grace and forgiveness of Christ to them. We want to be respectful and decent toward them (which has no always been so, unfortunately) But there is no middle ground on this issue. Either homosexual activity is sinful or it is not. There is no other hand. Our culture demands that we not only tolerate but celebrate homosexuality. That is something no Christian who values his Bible can do.

Fundamentally, to accept the unrepentant homosexual into the church is to deny the gospel. That is not because we condemn homosexuality as different from other sins, but because we treat it like all sins, which separate us from God and must be cleansed by Christ. When ministers begin to compromise that truth, denying the reality of sin and no longer proclaiming repentance, they have swung the ax at the root of the gospel.  If sin can simply be ignored and excused as Danny Cortez has done, then the death of Christ becomes pointless.

Tevye refused to deny his faith, even for the sake of his daughter. For the sake of his son, Danny Cortez made a very different choice. Get used to it folks. In the next few years, pastors, churches, and denominations will be walking the path of Christian compromise that one pastor in California has decided to walk. It may be a trickle now but soon it will be a tsunami! Those who jump into the waters of cultural acceptance will be celebrated while those who hold to the gospel and to biblical truth will be increasingly treated like the gender KKK.

What will we do? Will we deny Christ and the gospel to please people and be well thought of in the world? Will we yield to the overwhelming pressure from the world or will we hold to the truth of the gospel? Will we repudiate Christ for cultural acceptance or stand with Christ even under the derision and scorn of the world?

 

{ 66 comments… read them below or add one }

1 Rick Patrick June 4, 2014 at 7:41 am

I agree with Dave Miller and Al Mohler.

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2 Greg Harvey June 4, 2014 at 9:17 am

And I agree with Rick Patrick.

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3 Adam Blosser June 4, 2014 at 9:45 am

That’s taking it too far. ;)

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4 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 10:33 am

And, I agree with Dave Miller, Al Mohler, Rick Patrick, Greg Harvey, and Adam Blosser.

David

PS. Thanks Dave….now, all I can think about is…”if i were a rich man, la de da de da de da…..” Now, I’m beginning to dance around the room, like Tevye….snapping my fingers….dancing slowly….I’m sure that you, who know me, can see this in your minds….

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5 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 12:40 pm

And I agree with Dave, Al, Rick, Greg…..OK this is getting ridiculous.

Seriously Dave great post. We have come to a point in culture where it is what it is and there is no other way to spin it.

I truly believe that we have reached the point in the history of creation that it is time to concentrate completely on the proclamation of the gospel and get as many as we can ready for the sound of the trumpet.

6 Tarheel June 4, 2014 at 7:48 am

“I agree with Al Mohler” – Rick Patrick.

;-)

Couldn’t resist.

Seriously, great article Dave. Sometimes, there is simply no other hand and it’s black and white.

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7 Greg Harvey June 4, 2014 at 7:48 am

Either God is God…or he is not.

Our belief does not determine who he is or what he says about himself. It only determines our public alignment with him and with his truth claims. If Jesus is not resurrected and if the Bible is not inerrant, according to Paul we are to be the most pitied among men.

But if the Bible is true and Jesus is alive, then what we put our faith in is true and those that reject it will be confronted for their sin–confirmed by their rejection of THE Way, THE Truth, and THE Life–and told “depart from me, I never knew you.”

Never known by your Creator? Pray for them and witness to them that they will know him and he will “know” them. There is only one Truth. Truth is never plural.

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8 Jess June 4, 2014 at 8:41 am

Dave,

I’ve stood on the solid rock in the beginning, now, and even if it’s a bitter end I plan to stand. My definition of compromise has always been, #1. Hold to what you received from the beginning. #2. When compromise seems possible, revert back to #1.

I’m smart enough to know what I need to know, and dumb enough to never change. This mentality is what’s going to get me into a lot of trouble one day.

There are some issues where I choose the middle ground, but when the Bible is clear about an issue, I revert back to #1.

Dave, great post. Hang in there.

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9 dr. james willingham June 4, 2014 at 9:05 am

There are some issues which require a life or death commitment, and David you have hit the ones that count today. When one finishes going through the “on this hand” and ‘on the other hand”, there is still the requirements of true godliness that obtain for both Law and Grace.

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10 Chris Roberts June 4, 2014 at 9:32 am

It’s peculiar that you use Fiddler on the Roof to make your point. Despite how dogmatic Tevye was that “there is no other hand”, by the end of the movie, he begins to shift. We don’t see an open acceptance of his daughter and her husband, but there is a very definite crack in his resistance, enough to excite his family who saw it as welcoming her and her husband back into the family.

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11 Greg Harvey June 4, 2014 at 9:56 am

Dave fell asleep before he got to the end…

Worse is that the entire movie is about discarding commandments from God and doesn’t really address the consequences except the loss of relationship between the family members. The ones that rejected their Judaism stayed safely in Russia while the ones that insisted on staying connected to their heritage were forced to leave.

I’m not a big fan of calling what is happening in the world at large “persecution” because the shaking of fists is directed at God and not at us (at least not directly at us.) But the consequences likely will look the same. IF we hold fast to our beliefs, it is likely we will be isolated and ridiculed like the Jews were in Fiddler on the Roof. And the even more subtle message is that either the government or the mob of people will force sympathizers to choose sides and to reject those that are standing firm. I think this might be why that particular movie appealed to Dave, if I were to read between the lines.

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12 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 10:35 am

I really believe that the Church is gonna face persecution over the homosexual issue. I’m really starting to believe that we’re gonna be facing persecution, soon, from this issue.

David

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13 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 10:37 am

And, what will be the saddest part of it all….is what Dave said….we’re gonna see more Pastors, Churches, and even denominations jump ship, and cave in to peer pressure….and, waa laaa….change-o, presto, all of a sudden, homosexuality will not be a sin, anymore….to them. But, to God, it is….and, it always will be.

David

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14 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 12:53 pm

Volfan
And why would we think not. We are told by our Lord that it is going to happen. When we look around the world it is ALREADY happening. People are jailed and condemned for no reason other than their Christian faith. There is no reason to think we will escape it. I am 70 years old and it is possible that I will live to see speaking against homosexuality officially and by law “hate Speech” for which there will be a fine and/or prison.

If not in my time surely in my preacher son’s lifetime.

I say again: only the direct intervention of God bringing a Spirit led revival will save us this.

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15 dr. james willingham June 5, 2014 at 2:05 pm

You folks need to remember that prayer has been going on for over a hundred and fifty years for a Third Great Awakening. Just think what will happen, when that comes. Talk about power. In Thomas Kidd’s work on The Great Awakening, there is the story of an African American, an unbeliever at the time, who went out to disrupt one of George Whitefield’s meetings in Charleston, SC. He had just walked into the audience, when Whitefield pointed at him and quoted his text, “Israel, prepare to meet thy God.” As Dr. Kidd declares, that African American went flying backwards as thought propelled by some force, fell to the ground, and passed out. Whitefield appointed the pastor of the First Baptist Church of Charleston, Rev. Oliver Hart, to see to the man. Hart worked with the man after he regained consciousness and was converted in about two days. The comparable passage in Scripture is in John’s Gospel, where our Lord said to the cohort of soldiers, “I am,” and all 600 of them went flying backwards and fell to the ground. If that is the kind of power involved, then we are going to see some remarkable things in the Awakening designed to reach every soul on earth, beginning, hopefully, in this generation and continuing for a 1000 generations and reach quadrillions of planets in the starry heavens. In ’94 a physicist at the Univ. of Mexico set forth a theory for faster than light travel, but he was a mite late. Why? Because in ’93, Ben Rich, the head of the Skunk Works of Lockheed, which developed the stealth fighters, declared to the graduating class of UCLA, “We already have the means to go to the stars.” And that was 21 years ago. Just think. Well, rather, just pray, remembering and pleading I Chronicles 16:15 along with Daniel 2:44 and many other verses, promises and prophecies of Gospel success, the likes of which we have yet to begin to even dream.

16 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 11:08 am

Vol, we have be careful to invoke persecution. Persecution is Stephen being stoned, it is that lady who faces death, giving birth while shackled in prison, it is North Korean Christians facing a firing squad.

Maybe, one day, in America it will come to that. But currently, we will face some ridicule and perhaps ostracism. We will be painted as extremists and our views will be falsely presented. And that will be sad.

But I’m reluctant to call that persecution.

Who knows, maybe one day we will be called to truly suffer for his name. I hope I will be faithful.

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17 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 1:03 pm

Dave
I agree totally with the sentiment of what you are saying about persecution. I know nothing about it, in fact less than nothing when I look at those you delineated.

However, as I said above I do not think we are far from speaking against homosexuality being legally classified as “hate Speech” with punishment attached.

Like you I pray I will be found faithful. I am not sure we can “predict” what we will do until faced with the issue. It is easy for me to say I will stand true when I am here in my cozy study drinking coffee and bloging with friends. It is another thing should I stand before the council.

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18 Louis Cook June 4, 2014 at 2:27 pm

We are already seeing the beginnings of it with businesses being told that they must participate in events that go against their beliefs, see wedding cake makers and photographers as examples. If you donated in support of Prop 8 here in CA then you are apt to being fired if you rise too high( see former CEO of Mozilla) or work for a high profile company. Why not also go after those people who are members of churches that do not deviate towards the demands of the culture?
You can look at NYC at the movement to kick churches out of paying for and using schools as meeting places.
It will get worse but that is okay. The quicker we shed the cloak of cultural Christianity that we have worn. I am a native of SC deep in the so-called Bible belt and now live in Northern CA deep in modern Soddom & Gomorrah to some. Yet both places are lost and damaged by sin. Both need the gospel not political solutions. The sins of this world know no state or national boundaries. There is no other hand or Third Way. In Christ alone is where our hope resides.

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19 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 6:51 pm

Dave,

I know that the persecution you mention is far, far worse than what any of us have experienced, but still, being mocked and ridiculed is persecution. Being marginalized and ostracized is also a form of persecution. And, Churches being fined, or treated badly in other ways by the govt., is still a form of persecution. I know that it’s not on the same level as what Believers are dealing with in other countries…especially those who are suffering physical persecution. So, I get what you’re saying….but, it’s still a form of persecution.

David

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20 rick June 5, 2014 at 7:28 am

Greg, you said, “Worse is that the entire movie is about discarding commandments from God…”

If you recall the title of the musical and the opening number, it was NOT about discarding the commandments of God. It was about discarding tradition. This was a mistake the Pharisees made in Jesus’ day and it is one many of us make today – we are unable to distinguish the commandments of God from the traditions of men.

And I need not bring up any of the recurring hot-button issues to illustrate it, but that is the first question we ought to resolve – are we seeking to obey God or men?

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21 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 11:04 am

Well, Chris, illustrations are illustrations, any of them taken too far fall apart.

First of all, I do not agree with the practice of shunning as did those Jewish folks. It was wrong to reject her and I am in no way advocating that we shun homosexuals as Tevye did. I do not share either Tevye’s faith or practice.

But he came to a point and was unwilling to go farther.

Ultimately, I think this is our modern “Caesar is Lord” moment. Either we will give in to the intolerant pressures of public opinion to celebrate homosexuality or we will stand with Scripture.

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22 Chris Roberts June 4, 2014 at 2:02 pm

Except in the end he went farther…

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23 Doug Hibbard June 4, 2014 at 5:45 pm

Yes, but in the end, Darth Vader wasn’t particularly evil, just misunderstood and immature. Every movie character changes.

The illustration was drawn from the earlier part of Fiddler and was not intended to invoke us all to follow Teyve in place of Jesus. Just to point out that there should be times that we have no other hand.

Which is also true of Darth Vader, now that I think of it…

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24 clark June 4, 2014 at 9:43 am

“That is not because we condemn homosexuality as different from other sins, but because we treat it like all sins…” Excellent line.

Ich kann nicht anders!

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25 Dean Stewart June 4, 2014 at 10:09 am

Tevye: As Abraham said, “I am a stranger in a strange land… ”
Mendel: Moses said that.
Tevye: Ah. Well, as King David said, “I am slow of speech, and slow of tongue.”
Mendel: That was also Moses.
Tevye: For a man who was slow of tongue, he talked a lot.

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26 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 11:05 am

That is a great exchange. Just about every line in that movie/play is a gem.

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27 Louis Cook June 5, 2014 at 3:02 am

Perchik: I’m a very good teacher.

Hodel: I hear that the Rabbi who has to praise himself has a congregation of one.

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28 Robert Vaughn June 4, 2014 at 10:15 am

Good points.

On the issue of rejecting “traditional” teaching on homosexuality and ending up tolerating it in the churches, I am afraid that many churches have already set themselves up for the end result of acquiescing to the “cultural status quo” on homosexuality. If we substitute the words adulterers, adultery, and adulterous in the following sentences, perhaps you can see what I mean.

“Homosexuals will be welcomed in his church, even those actively and unrepentantly participating in homosexual relationships.”
“Either one believes homosexual behavior is a sin or one does not.”
“That is not because we condemn homosexuality as different from other sins, but because we treat it like all sins…”

How do we treat adultery? I know quite a number of churches who have members who are living together without the benefit of a marriage covenant. The churches who have acquiesced on this will eventually acquiesce on homosexuality, unless they get a strong case of conviction and repentance.

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29 Max June 4, 2014 at 11:18 am

Amen Dave! The best post on this issue I have read yet! There is no third way, middle ground, fence to walk, agree to disagree, go along to get along stand that a Christian should take here. Lot first cast his eyes on the plains of Sodom … we find him next encamped in the hills over Sodom … then sitting in the gate … and finally trapped in the culture … leaving just one step ahead of judgment. For those folks choosing to leave Pastor Cortez’s congregation over this, it might be said of them “They went out from us because they were not of us” … and they’d be right to say that!

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30 Ben Coleman June 4, 2014 at 11:58 am

Where’d Todd Benkert’s post go? It looked pretty decent.

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31 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 1:10 pm

I have more respect for the preacher who says “I will cease to talk about such things because i do not want to face ridicule, lose my job, or go to jail” than I do the one who tries to twist scripture to suit his purpose.

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32 Rick Patrick June 4, 2014 at 1:11 pm

Glad to see so many Tevye fans. Clearly, he was a Traditionalist!

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33 dr. james willingham June 4, 2014 at 2:49 pm

Don’t worry, Rick. You will find, sooner or later, that both sides make their contributions to this evil. You folks ever hear of subliminal advertisements? Ever wonder why our people are so obsessed with sex. Try subliminal sexual ads. even for pop foods and drinks, etc. A school teacher in Rockingham, NC, whose father owned the local newspaper told her students about this advertisement stuff back in 1938.

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34 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 3:20 pm

Dr. Willingham,

What in the world are you talking about?

David

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35 dr. james willingham June 4, 2014 at 5:36 pm

Volfan: Set down with a popular ad and start looking for sexual images, Take a pen and outline them. You will be flabbergasted. And by the way one of the best selling ads Seagram’s Seven ever had was of an empty wiskey glass with a few ice cubes in it. A fellow, Dr. Donald Key, (I think that was his name) in his book, The Clam Plate Orgy, took that picture of the glass and put it under a microscope and found pictures of floating images of wolves, etc., whatever a man sees in his dts. There is more, but do the research…and probably, though I have not looked yet, you will find it all on the Internet. The stuff began back in the early part of the 20th century. The government used it to recruit people to fight their wars, make them pay their taxes, etc. And Business and the advertising firms used the info. for other purposes. Key’s book was based upon a plate of clams which he found on closer examination reflected a mass of people involved in an orgy. And we wonder why our country went to Hell in a hand basket so quickly (I forgot to add the antigod, evolutionary type teachings in the schools). And there is more, much more.

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36 Chris Roberts June 4, 2014 at 5:45 pm

Also, if you take rock music from the 80′s and play it backwards, you will hear satanic messages.

37 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 5:55 pm

Most of that music is already bad enough if you listen to it forward.

38 Tarheel June 4, 2014 at 5:56 pm

Chris,

Also if you take country music and play it backwards you get your….

truck back, dog back, trailer back, wife/lover back, tractor back, and then get to kick back and get undrunk.

;-)

39 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 5:58 pm

Dr. Willingham,

I’m just not able to see how your comment has anything to do with what Rick said. You wrote it as a response to Rick’s statement, and I just can’t see why you said what you did….in response to what Rick said. Please help me to understand why you said what you did….in response to Rick???

David

40 Chris Roberts June 4, 2014 at 6:07 pm

Dave,

That’s why you have to have big 80′s hair to listen to 80′s music. The hair acts as a kind of frequency modulator, making the music sound better.

41 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 6:10 pm

Chris, my guess is that enjoying that music has less to do with the siz of your hair and more to do with chemicals ingested.

42 parsonsmike June 4, 2014 at 6:13 pm

Chris,
Some say its Satanic playing it frontwards.

43 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 6:39 pm

If you play contemporary christian rock music forward, backward, sideways, or any ways you get terribly bored.

44 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 5:58 pm

That is one reason I’ve resisted using the term traditionalist as you like to. It was already a word that already had a meaning and has nothing to do with soteriology.

Come up with a better term!

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45 Tarheel June 4, 2014 at 6:09 pm

How about Poinsettiaists?

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46 Rick Patrick June 4, 2014 at 6:13 pm

Sorry. Blame it on this by Fisher Humphreys, first published in 2001 and then republished in 2009.

Yes, Traditionalist can have many meanings. We have to clarify what we mean by it. We usually are very careful to do so.

But let me remind you that Calvinist can have many meanings as well. We are constantly parsing and redefining exactly what people mean by it, and whether or not this claim or that is fair to certain types of Calvinists.

No name on either side is perfect. And we have certainly tried to develop a better term. Currently, the second and third options are worse, in my opinion—extensivism and savabilism.

Like Angelina told Brad in Mr. and Mrs. Smith when they were looking at the drapes, “You’ll get used to them.”

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47 Dave Miller June 4, 2014 at 6:15 pm

How about we call you guys the Tevyeists?

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48 Rick Patrick June 4, 2014 at 6:21 pm

We’ve been called worse.

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49 Tarheel June 4, 2014 at 6:26 pm

How about Patricians or Patrickites?

Or maybe “Hankpats” (combining Hankins and Patrick)

50 Tarheel June 4, 2014 at 6:27 pm

OK…I am having too much fun with this…let me stop. :-)

I’m just playin’ Rick.

51 Rick Patrick June 4, 2014 at 8:51 pm

All in good fun. Still, we’ve looked at dozens of options. So far, nothing at all is nearly as good as Traditionalist.

52 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 6:45 pm

How about “the correct ones” OK OK i’m just messing around! :-)

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53 Louis Cook June 4, 2014 at 2:38 pm

Both today’s post by Dave and the one yesterday, I believe, on the conversation being over reminded of a favorite clip of mine.
It is from Adrian Rogers’ Memorial Service, the part I am referencing is at about the 3:20 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84tmxMiNRhE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

It does not look like it was taken at Bellevue, perhaps someone knows where it was filmed. He is discussing his time on the SBC Peace Committee. His stance was unwavering. Interesting that he got initial applause for not compromising but the applause died out when he said that the SBC did not have to survive, he did not have to preach at Bellevue and he did not have to live.
When we have truth as we do in the Word of God we must hold onto like a sailor grabbing the mast in a storm. Whatever waves come, we stand firm in the truth.

As an aside I have one problem with one of the comments made in the clip, I’ll see if any others watch it and catch it before commenting on it.

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54 volfan007 June 4, 2014 at 3:28 pm

Louis,

I can’t imagine you having any trouble with what was said on this video. It’s great. And, it’s a wonderful tribute to one of the greatest preachers, who ever lived.

David

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55 Louis Cook June 5, 2014 at 2:50 am

The one bit that bothers me is when one of the men says that A.R. could preach on roses(I think that is what he used) and that people would walk the aisle. He meant to compliment his ability as a speaker but in doing so he discounted the power of the gospel he preached. Other than that bit, I love the clip. Have watched it about a hundred times. I wish I had visited BBC as a boy when I used to spend summers in West TN.
It is interesting how the audience got quiet when he said that the SBC did not have to survive, etc.

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56 David Rogers June 5, 2014 at 8:58 am

That is Peter Lord, one of my dad’s best friends down through the years. If he had meant it seriously, the concern would be warranted. But the operative word in what he says is “jokingly.” In any case, thanks for posting the video. I miss him so much.

Here is the text of what I said in the same service in which that video was played:

http://loveeachstone.blogspot.com/2006/03/what-my-daddy-has-given-me.html?m=0

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57 Tarheel June 5, 2014 at 9:38 am

“the burning passion of my heart is to finish well.”. – Dr. Rogers

Mission was certainly accomplished.

What a man of unwavering conviction and fidelity to Christ and the Gospel.

Louis, I personally loved, absolutely loved that statement AR was making when the people got quiet. I think they got quiet because they realized the sheer import of the statements. AR telling that man on the “peace committee” – “we don’t have to get together, the SBC does not have to survive, I don’t have to live, but I won’t compromise on the Word of God” was exactly right and what needed to be said and I’m thankful that he was very serious and meant very word!

He was saying “Unity, our domination, pastoring, our very lives, are all irrelevant without an inerrant scripture.”.

Wow, I’m tearing up as I type this.

I’m thankful to God for His granting us faithful leaders like Dr. Rogers in my lifetime.

On a little more jovial note – I have said for years that if God’s voice is a “human sounding voice” that AR’s voice was made in the image of it. What a booming, authoratative voice he had.

I still listen to LWF regularly.

58 Tarheel June 5, 2014 at 9:39 am

*unity, our denomination…*. (not domination…lol)

59 D. L. Payton June 5, 2014 at 10:23 am

David
I am sure you do miss him. No one can miss a father like a son.

If we could have him today in the SBC I believe things would be different. Like many others I only knew your father from afar, but I took seriously every word he spoke during the CR days. His guidance was incredible as he led us through those days. It is obvious that God gave him to the convention to help us find our way back to the proper place of scripture in our convention.

60 Greg Harvey June 5, 2014 at 12:07 pm

Thanks for the comment, David. I can’t tell you how much it means to me to see the spiritual legacy of the father be taken up and carried forward by the son no matter how distinct their personalities, talents, and callings. You are an encouragement to me pretty much every time you post. So while I miss your dad and his marvelous leadership and sermons, I’m glad we have you.

61 volfan007 June 5, 2014 at 9:38 am

Louis,

My family and I went to Bellevue for 3 or 4 years while Dr. Rogers was the Pastor. He was a great man of God. I also got to hear Dr. Lee preach “Pay Day Someday” on his 90th birthday in his white suit. I think it was his 90th birthday. Well, anyway, I was a teenager then. Boy, I heard some great, great preaching in those 4 years.

David

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62 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 3:54 pm

Louis
Thanks for the link. It was good to be reminded what a great preacher and what a great man of God he was. Oh that we could have him now!

I will never forget a time years ago at the Oklahoma Bapt. Evangelism Conference. I was pastor of a small rural church, I went to the altar with several other pastors. I did not know Dr. Rogers and had never met him before or since. While paying at the altar I felt an arm slip around my shoulder and a voice began to pray that God would bless the ministry of this my brother pastor. It was Adrian Rogers.

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63 Max June 4, 2014 at 8:45 pm

My mother was a member of Bellevue after she moved to the Memphis area following my father’s death. With thousands of members in that great church, Brother Rogers still found time to visit and pray with her when she was in the hospital. He was not only a great preacher, but a pastor … not all preachers are pastors.

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64 D. L. Payton June 4, 2014 at 9:08 pm

What a great testimony to what a pastor should be.

Yes preacher does not = pastor!

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65 Louis Cook June 5, 2014 at 2:51 am

That is a great story. Thanks for sharing.

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66 Tarheel June 5, 2014 at 9:16 am

An important resolution closely related to the homosexuality issue is also being offered in Baltimore.

http://www.dennyburk.com/a-resolution-on-transgender-for-the-sbc/

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