I can remember when I was in elementary school and Rosanne Barr sang the National Anthem irreverently. I remember my principal Mr. Wood saying that “when Rosanne comes on TV, I turn the channel.” I want you to listen to the “boos” from the crowd as she butchers our National Anthem:
Now, I want you to listen to the cheers from the crowd as this Christian pastor irreverently prays to the only God who exists:
If it is wrong to butcher the United States National Anthem because it tramples underfoot the men and women who have bled and died to validate that anthem; then, how much moreso is it a wicked thing for a Christian to say an irreverent prayer to God, to trample underfoot the blood of Christ that makes his prayer possible (Heb. 10:19-22)?
I’m amazed at Christians defending a man who is trying to get people to laugh during a prayer in which he is praying to God Almighty. Jesus for example condemns those that pray long prayers to impress their hearers (Luke 20:47; Matt. 6:7). What’s the difference in praying to impress your hearers with humor? The Creator of heaven and earth is serious about the attitude of His people as they approach Him in worship. Prayer is an act of worship (Ecclesiastes 5:2). It is NO laughing matter. Christ even began the Lord’s prayer with “Father, hallowed be your name (Luke 11:2).”
So, I have a question for Christians that are defending the NASCAR Prayer: Why is it wicked to irreverently sing the National Anthem, but it isn’t wicked to irreverently pray to the Creator of all things? Is it not worse to trample our only Savior and God underfoot than to trample men and women underfoot?
Congratulations Joe Nelms (Pastor that prayed at the NASCAR event above), you just taught millions of people to approach God irreverently (James 3:1). Satan couldn’t have done it any better himself. But hey, at least you’re famous now…
What are your thoughts?
Chris Roberts (63)
Dave Miller (61)
Bob Hadley (48)
Debbie Kaufman (45)
dr. james willingham (44)
Les (30)
cb scott (29)
Rick Patrick (27)
Bill Mac (26)
Christiane (26)
Jared,
I thank God for my smoking hot wife all the time… What’s the issue?
I told my wife I was gonna thank God for her “smokin’ hotness” at church, and she said that if I did she’d beat me in front of the congregation.
I could not agree more. Great post.
Jared,
I wholeheartedly see your point on this matter. I’m just wondering about one possible caveat to your argument: do we know the honest intention of this man’s heart? Is it feasible that perhaps he was sincerely joyful (albeit appearing carnal at times), while the crowd just caught an emotional “buzz” from his prayers?
Again, I’m totally opposed to mocking God and I shutter at those disrespecting the Holy One of Heaven. I just how applicable Matt. 7:1 is in this particular scenario. There certainly appears to be great fleshly influence in this prayer, but I’m not sure I could say with total certainty that this pastor’s intent was to impress people. We always say that man’s chief end is to glorify God and ENJOY Him forever – and perhaps he initially intended to convey to this crowd that they could enjoy God even at a NASCAR event.
Just some thoughts for consideration. I look forward to examining this issue, gentlemen.
Ed, you make some good points. Here’s a quote by Nelms about the prayer:
“I wouldn’t apologize for doing it. I would do the prayer again because of what it’s done. Some of the emails that I have gotten from people have said they’ll be at church on Sunday, not necessarily at our church, I’m talking about people from Arizona and Utah and Washington and all of these different places that say they’ll be at church because of that. That’s amazing to me that I had that kind of impact, that the Lord used just a little humor to show folks that Christ can be fun, too.”
“Is it not worse to trample our only Savior and God underfoot than to trample men and women underfoot.”
You must look to Our Lord Christ for your answer, in one of the great teachings of the Holy Gospels:
41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “
Maybe it’s time to forgive Pastor Nelms . . . bring him out from under bus and bandage him up and take a really good look at our own selves and how we have failed to give thanks to Our good God for all His Gifts.
There is something about us humans that wants to point the finger at another, as a way of avoiding our own failures. It’s human nature. But it is not the way ‘of Christ’.
If Pastor Nelms has offended YOU, you must forgive him.
If Pastor Nelms has offended God, God will work in him to help him understand this and to amend his life. (My own thought is that Pastor Nelms had no evil intent . . . but that he did not see anything wrong in what he did.)
I just can’t move past the fact that you were in ELEMENTARY school when the Roseanne thing happened. Young whippersnapper, that’s what you are!
David T, you’re right. I try to learn from those that have come before, and those wise men who are around me. The average age of the deacons at my church is 70+. They’re a wise group of godly men. I hope to continue learning from men like them.
Brother Jared,
I agree that this prayer was completely out of line under any circumstances.
I have no doubt that Jesus has a sense of humor. He is the author of all things. But never once during that ‘prayer’ did I get the idea that Nelms was approaching the throne of God.
I understand the comparison to Roseanne Barr. These are all symptoms of a people who love themselves and not the Creator God.
God will not be mocked.
What the Pastor did was not a prayer but a poor comedic stand-up routine.
Knowing and proclaiming that at His Right Hand are pleasures forevermore and that Joy is a fruit of the Spirit is a far cry from the mockery that he made of awesome privilege of communicating with the God of Creation.
Where in all of Sacred Scripture is prayer ever portrayed as an opportunity to get a few laughs? Are those people now going to be in church becauseof this man’s jocularity and the ” fun ” Jesus instead of by the leading of the Holy Spirit and the conviction of sin? Will they seek out churches for their humor instead of their orthodoxy?
I doubt this prayer will lead to another Great Awakening.
Actually, Satan could have done it a lot better. Sorry, Jared, that was a really cheap shot at the pastor. How would you like it if I said Satan couldn’t have stirred up strife among believers better than you have here (or, than I did between calvinists and non-calvinists last week)?
That said, the pastor made at least three mistakes:
1. He appears to have decided that he was talking to the crowd, not God. No, he didn’t directly address the fans and, yes, he did directly address God; nonetheless, the language and thrust were to the crowd.
2. It appears that the business here is the entertainment business. We’re not in that bidness.
3. He put an image in everyone’s mind of his wife’s sexuality and sensuality. That is to objectify the woman for the entire audience (and us by extension). Sure, commonly done, perhaps to be expected in America but not proper. She should be the object of his sexual ardor, privately.
No one may have noticed nor remember, but I’ve made the same three mistakes.
William, it wouldn’t bother me in the least if you said that. It would make me question my motives, but if I did not violate Scripture, we would simply disagree.
I don’t think it was a cheap shot at the pastor. I think it’s an accurate statement. All Christians are either involved in the crushing of the Serpent’s head or he is bruising our heels (Gen. 3:15). I think in this instance, this pastor allowed Satan to bruise his heel. Thus, he was involved in the work of the Devil. Every time a Christian sins, he’s involved in Satan’s work, period. I cannot reduce sin to mere “mistakes.” The Bible knows no such definition.
Finally, I’m sure I’ve made the same mistakes (SINS) as well; but, what does this have to do with this man’s error? The Bible tells us not to let many of us be teachers due to stricter judgment (James 3:1). We are held to a higher standard. I’m thinking about the millions of people that this Christian pastor influenced. I especially think about the children and teenagers that have heard this prayer, and now approach God irreverently as a direct result.
Jared,
You said: “Satan couldn’t have done it any better himself. ”
Then you said: “I think it’s an accurate statement.”
Question: Are you so in touch with Satan as to know the limits of his ability?
William, Satan is a subtle deceiver. I think Nelms’ subtly encouraged his hearers to approach God irreverently in prayer, not counting the cost Christ paid to make prayer possible.
I’ll turn your question around on you… Are you so in touch with Satan to know the limits of his ability? I’m arguing Satan couldn’t do it better, you’re arguing that he could have. You’re condemning your own argument in order to prove a point… a point that is pointless.
Could we focus on what the article says?
Whoa bro, I did focus on what the article says. I quoted your exact words, “Satan couldn’t have done any better” which seemed to be to be your summation of the entire matter. Not only that, I offered my evaluation of the whole matter.
You could have said that your statement was an descriptive expression and not meant to be taken literally and then have proceeded to explained why. Instead, defended it as “an accurate statement.”
Your statement. Your assertion. If you don’t want your words to be taken seriously, then say so.
I ask again: How do you know that Satan couldn’t do any better than poor Joe Nelms? The word “better” makes you say that Nelms’ prayer was beyond anything that Satan himself could have offered. It’s untruea cheap shot.
[And say, Jason, is this some kind of Calvinist thing?
]
William, you win. You’re quibbling over a small point that I think is no point at all. I’m not going to engage any further.
Come on, Jared, this isn’t a small point. It was YOUR MAIN point. Are you withdrawing it, modifying it, or just running from your own words?
Hey, I’m OK if you just want to vent without discussion. Say so.
Jared,
I meant to say this earlier, but my brain is like a steel seive these days. I personally think that Nelms would do well to read “Knowing God” by J.I. Packer. Perhaps I’ll send him a copy.
BTW, I didn’t see a cheap shot either. Truth is truth.
Chief, I think that could be very beneficial for pastor Nelms. That’s a great idea.
Jared,
Lots of good points.
I’ve heard it said that whatever it takes to attract someone to church is what it will take to keep them. If there actually are people who went to church because of that goofy “prayer”, what kind of nonsense will it take to keep them attending?
It is extremely important that Christian people realize that ‘evil’ is NOT an abstraction . . . the ‘ancient enemy’ is EVIL personified, and is the author of all evil in this world.
We have ‘the’ prayer taught to us by Our Lord: ‘deliver us from evil’ and His meaning is ‘deliver us from the snares of the evil one’, all of us, our Christian family and the whole world.
If you isolate behavior and call it ‘sin’ or ‘evil’ without understanding that satan is the ‘author’ of it,
you may be more vulnerable by not recognizing what Christ taught us:
your enemy is satan, not Westboro, or any heretic, or ‘liberals’ . . . your enemy is the ancient one, and he wears many disguises, and he is the one that the whole Church cries for God to protect us from.
Do not be distracted.
I’m just guessing, and I really don’t know the man, but he seems like a pretty entertaining type of a fellow. I would guess that the kind of attitude he demonstrated in his prayer probably pervades his church.
Just guessing.
And I’m not saying that’s a good thing.
I took the statement that Satan himself could not do any better as hyperbole, not a technical statement that truly attempted to define the limits of Satan’s abilities. It seems to me that Satan’s ability to do wrong is limited only by God’s restriction. In that sense, we are only as familiar with what Satan can or can’t do as we are with how much evil God has planned to allow. To try to defend the statement as “accurate” or “inaccurate” is so much quibbling, because it does not refer to any objectively measurable value. It is a rhetorical device and as such it succeeds because it clearly communicates how the author feels and gets an emotional reaction from his readers.
Comments on this entry are closed.