Is it possibly a sign of our partisan ways that one of the most divisive things in the SBC today is the Sinner’s Prayer?
I attended a men’s breakfast this morning where a nationally known sports figure was the featured speaker. Around 800 men (well, there were a few women who crashed the testosterone party!) ate a hearty meal then listened to this man share his life story and make a gospel presentation. All in all, I would say it was a biblically grounded message – I don’t think even some of the angriest of the discernment bloggers would have found too much to quarrel with in his testimony and his presentation of the gospel. I might have tweaked a word here or there, but it was solid.
Then, he wrapped up his message by saying that “you are saved by praying this little prayer, if you mean it with all your heart.” That is where a lot of people would have recoiled in horror. That is when the accusations and recriminations usually come in!
- You guys preach “salvation by Sinner’s Prayer.”
- You guys don’t preach a biblical gospel. There’s nothing in the Bible about praying a Sinner’s Prayer.
I’m convinced that fighting about this is manifestly silly and that our differences on the issues are overblown. But in typical modern Baptist fashion, we magnify our differences, coalesce around those with whom we agree, demonize and anathematize those who disagree, and settle into our camps certain God is on our side and that “they” are in the wrong. It gets to be like one of those talk show arguments where everyone is talking at the same time and no one is listening.
I would offer the following observations.
1. The Sinner’s Prayer has been abused – without question.
I’ve seen it. I’ve cringed in meetings as someone on stage has asked everyone to “say this prayer out loud.” Then afterward, he tells everyone that if they really meant it they’d been saved. I’ve heard the Sinner’s Prayer used without adequate gospel explanation and yes, I’ve seen it presented as a means of salvation. To deny that this tool has been abused is to deny reality.
Those who have called us to account concerning the use of the Sinner’s prayer have performed a service to the church, giving us a corrective to these abuses. Instead of giving knee-jerk defenses of the Sinner’s Prayer we should look at the way it is used and make sure it is being done properly.
2. The Sinner’s Prayer is a tool to accomplish a biblical purpose.
Salvation does not come by praying a prayer. It comes by repentance and faith. It comes when a man or women is broken and turns to God in faith. That is what must take place and it is not simply rhetoric. We must never give people the idea that reciting a prayer is somehow a saving act, or that going forward is, or that getting baptized or taking communion or doing good works or anything else is. Salvation comes by the grace of God to those who feel the weight of their sin’s guilt, call to God in repentance and place their faith in Christ.
But how do they do that? Well, it is a prayer, isn’t it? We express our repentance and faith in a prayer. So, if an evangelist gives a person a little help in wording that prayer it isn’t an act of evil, is it? It would seem that it is a good thing to help people find the words to express the repentance and faith that is welling up in their hearts. Of course, no prayer can create what does not actually exist.
We have a tendency to confuse means with ends. God called us to publicly profess our faith in Christ and 150 or so years ago (closer to 200 now?) they came up with the idea of having an altar call and asking people to “come forward” to express their repentance and faith. At first, it was just a way to express faith but at some point it became confused with the very act of faith itself. When I pastored in a Southern town I would ask people when or how they got saved and they often responded, “I went forward when I was 9 years old” or something similar. They spoke of when they went forward as if it was the same as getting saved. I believe that most of them knew the difference but it was something I addressed in my sermons – that we are not saved by going to church, going forward, getting baptized, joining the church or anything else. We are saved by grace through faith.
If kept within that theological context and used carefully, the Sinner’s Prayer is not inherently evil or dangerous, but a tool to use to help repentant sinners express their genuine faith.
3. Sinner’s Prayer opposition has overheated and blown a gasket at times.
There has been some pretty strong rhetoric directed against the Sinner’s Prayer. Perhaps the most powerful is the one attribute to Leonard Ravenhill.
The Sinner’s Prayer has sent more people to hell than all the taverns in America.
Maybe I should avoid remarking on the irony of that comment, for risk of opening another can of worms I’ll regret, but the same people that fight over the Sinner’s Prayer often fight and divide over alcohol – and stand on different sides in Ravenhill’s equation. Never mind. Let’s keep Pandora’s box closed!
Is there truth in Ravenhill’s statement? Of course, there is! When people are told that they are saved by simply reciting a prayer (please don’t say it never happens – I’ve seen it myself too often to listen to denials) they are given a false hope and may be tempted to believe they are saved before they have been converted.
Is Ravenhill’s statement a tad overcharged? I would say so. Of course, neither taverns nor the Sinner’s Prayer send people to hell. Our sin and our refusal to trust Christ for salvation is what condemns. Ravenhill (assuming he did make that statement) was guilty of some intense rhetorical hyperbole. Another well-known conference speaker says, “Declare War on the Sinner’s Prayer.”
But is the prayer itself the problem or is it the misuse and abuse? Have invitations been abused? Of course, they have. Again, I’ve witnessed it too many times. I was asked to be a counselor for an “evangelistic” crusade 15 or 20 years ago and I was assigned to be a 3rd wave guy. Some of us “primed the pump” by coming forward the first time the “evangelist” (I put that in quotes on purpose!) gave the invitation. Then, he’d stop and give a second invitation and the second group would come forward. After his third invitation, I’d go forward. We’d then wait at the front hoping others would follow us – holy peer pressure, I assume. By the end of the week I felt angry at the manipulative tactics I saw employed by this man. It was disgusting. Evil. Totally of the flesh. (No, it was not Billy Graham or any of his associates.)
I remember an evangelist in the church I grew up in. We’d sung several verses of the invitation hymn and no one had come. He basically said we weren’t leaving until some people came forward that day. A few of us went down and “rededicated” our lives on the next verse so that everyone could go home.
Are invitations abused? Indubitably. Does that mean we are morally obligated to cease and desist all invitations? No. Peter gave a pretty forceful invitation on the day of Pentecost. We just have to make sure we do it (if we do it) with integrity and in line with biblical truth. Human manipulation and salesmanship are not appropriate. We proclaim and the Spirit works the heart.
The point? Calm down. Tone down the rhetoric on both sides. Those who use the Sinner’s Prayer have not all rejected the biblical gospel and those who are critiquing it are not opponents of evangelism. There is a legitimate place for helping a repentant sinner pray properly but there is a legitimate reason to question the way many have used it.
A Modest Proposal
If I had any hope that the combatants would listen, maybe I’d be more aggressive. But this is not a place where our fight needs to be as angry as it is.
1. Tone down the rhetoric.
That’s true in about 98% of our issues. There are some extremists on this issue, of course, as is true in everything, but this is not an “us against them” thing. We’ve made it into that, but it isn’t that and shouldn’t be that.
- Both sides believe in salvation by grace through faith.
- Neither side (in the SBC) believes that reciting a prayer saves us.
Our quarrel concerns a method, not the gospel itself. We should stop acting like those who use the Sinner’s Prayer desire to offer a cheap grace or that those who criticize the Prayer are opposing evangelism and the free offer of the gospel. Carefully wording our critiques to give honor to those with whom we disagree is a good first step.
2. Listen to the other side.
We are so defensive today, so quick to play the victim and pronounce ourselves offended and injured. But much trouble could be avoided if we would simply listen to the criticisms of the other side.
- Sinner’s Prayer supporters – please listen! A very good and godly man today gave a clear gospel presentation and then capped it with a false statement. I know very well that he does not believe that salvation is by praying a prayer. He said better! But his gospel presentation was a little careless. You guys could listen and fine-tune your presentation to make sure that this mistake isn’t made. You don’t want to lead anyone astray, do you? Listen! There is wisdom in the other side.
- Sinner’s Prayer critics – please listen! The people you criticize are not enemies of the gospel. They are not desirous of gaining false converts by manipulation (most aren’t anyway). Come away from your insulated conference-going, book-reading tendencies and engage some of the folks who use the prayer on a regular basis. Realize that they love the gospel just as you do and just use a different method. Show grace. There is passion for truth in the other side.
3. Come away from isolation and insulation.
If I were the pope of the SBC, one of the things I’d fight against is all the cliques and splinter groups that are forming. Many people would rather attend their splinter group meetings than our overall gatherings at the annual SBC.
What is the result of that? We become isolated from those who disagree and insulated from one another. How many times have you Calvinists felt like the anti-Calvinist groups accurately and fairly represented your views? Do you in the various non-Calvinist camps ever feel as if the way you are represented by Calvinists is fair? Of course not. Don’t ask a Democrat to accurately describe a Republican’s views or vice versa.
We separate into our camps and we caricature the other side. Of course, since we are with “our people,” no one corrects our straw man and we begin to assume our representation of “them” in indisputably accurate. They don’t evangelize. They preach cheap grace. They don’t believe the gospel is for everyone. They try to do the work of God in the power of the flesh.
And since you have surrounded yourself with only those who agree with you, no one will ever challenge your prejudiced views or correct your misconceptions. You will get loud amens and slaps on the back from your side when you demonize the other side.
One of the healthiest things we can do is bridge those gaps, come out of our secret dens of separation and fellowship across the aisle.
4. Put it in perspective.
The Sinner’s prayer is not a gospel essential. It’s a means to an end, not the end itself. The end is proclaiming Christ crucified and calling sinners to repentance. The Sinner’s prayer is neither a biblical mandate nor inherently a tool of the enemy. It’s a method for helping repentant sinners express their faith in Christ. Can it be abused? Please stop denying that. It happens all the time. Is it inherently evil? A prayer that helps a sinner express repentance and faith is evil? You really want to argue that?
Let’s keep this in perspective folks. We aren’t arguing a gospel essential but a means to an end. And we should lighten up, honor one another, and show some restraint in our rhetoric.
This is probably the most balanced article I’ve read on this subject. Thank you.
In conversations I have had with the objections to the sinners prayer it has always been about the fact that it lends to the idea that the sinner makes a decision. The next objection I often see when this subject has come up in circles I have been in is that it promotes “decisional salvation”. More times than not this is a debate between reformed and those who are not and it is based on other doctrinal differences.
I’ve not seen that. I would wonder if that comes from the caricatures of the other side or those actually opposing the Sinner’s Prayer.
The objections I’ve seen pretty much 100% revolve around the idea that it provides a false basis of security because someone prays a prayer and thinks they’ve said the magic saving words.
Could you point to a place where an opponent of the Prayer has made that point?
Paul Washer has certainly made his opinion known along these lines of thought as of late.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9hd3pV2VxU
He takes it down to the “know them by their fruits” on an equally passionate level.
While I can understand his frustration, the job of full time Fruit Inspector can be a particularly burdensome role.
His sermon seems much like the struggle we have in trying to discover who is residing in this country as an illegal alien and who is not. How do we find them and who gets to separate them when we do?
Well written article Dave–thank you very much.
My comment was intended a little more parochially. I was thinking of SBC blog wars and discussions.
I realize that the hardcore Calvinists out there disdain anything that smacks of decisionism, but when I made my comment, that was really not what I had in mind.
Did you see that Babylon Bee about Washer just glaring at a church for 45 minutes? Or the one about him showing up at Osteen’s church by mistake and there being a bloodbath?
Obviously, the most thoroughly Reformed might raise that issue, but I do not think those types of people are found at the center of the discussions in the SBC.
Dave, Whether i am ‘thoroughly reformed’ or not, I don’t know. But salvation happens because a person chooses to repent and surrender themselves to Jesus… otherwise known or could be known as making a choice, or a decision. The difference would be for many folks that they think the decision is to have faith, while I think the decision is made because one already has faith: because they have have faith, they believe as shown by their repentance and surrender as they confess Jesus as their Lord. Thus an invitation [in church or one on one] that gives place for… Read more »
Dave Miller,
This may be the best . . . and the most risky post you have ever written.
When one is ready to repent of their sins and believe in Jesus, how else can one possibly express that faith to the Lord than through some type of prayer—whether spoken aloud or in the quietness of one’s heart? Perhaps one could simply “sing” of one’s repentance and faith—the Sinner’s Song? Perhaps draw a picture—the Sinner’s Art? Perhaps just believe it quietly and claim the propositional truth without praying to the Lord—the Sinner’s Thought? But I don’t really believe any other method is truly biblical, practical or effective. Clearly, the most obvious way to make a TRUE profession of faith… Read more »
Rick, you write, “When one is ready to repent of their sins and believe in Jesus, how else can one possibly express that faith to the Lord than through some type of prayer—whether spoken aloud or in the quietness of one’s heart? Perhaps one could simply “sing” of one’s repentance and faith—the Sinner’s Song? Perhaps draw a picture—the Sinner’s Art? Perhaps just believe it quietly and claim the propositional truth without praying to the Lord—the Sinner’s Thought?” But isn’t repentance and faith an act of the will that can or does occur without the formation of any words? Can we… Read more »
Well, I suppose a person deaf and mute that could only read and think might come to a place where in their heart they “willed” to turn from their sins and believe in Jesus. If they had no arms and could not even write that they trusted in Christ, I am not sure how anyone would know that they had repented and believed. Maybe a game of Pictionary or Charades? How do you baptize someone when you cannot decipher that they have made a profession of faith? Even still, though, would their “thought life” not constitute a genuine “prayer” to… Read more »
Robert, You said, “But isn’t repentance and faith an act of the will that can or does occur without the formation of any words? Can we repent and believe without praying? You use the terms “express that faith” in reference to praying the sinner’s prayer. Is there a difference between having the faith and expressing the faith? Or are you saying these occur simultaneously? I don’t follow your point.” Faith isn’t an act of the will but repentance is. Repentance is an act of faith. Faith is of the heart and having it brings justification. But we read that we… Read more »
Rick, Mike, I think my question and comments were confusing, but I am still confused by your answers. What I’m asking is: Are you saying the prayer/expression of faith is essential to salvation and that it does not occur until that expression? Or does salvation occur at the moment of belief? Or perhaps you are not saying either of these? Rick: Well, I suppose a person deaf and mute that could only read and think might come to a place where in their heart they “willed” to turn from their sins and believe in Jesus. Do you only suppose this… Read more »
Robert, let me as crystal clear as I can be. A person is saved when they repent and believe. These are processes of the mind, heart and soul that may or may not involve an immediate, outward, spoken prayer of profession to God or others. Okay? Now, let us talk about “professions of faith.” How else can any minister of the gospel KNOW that a person has made such an inward decision unless they tell the minister or unless the minister hears them telling God? How can you know who to baptize unless there is some form of communication OUTWARDLY… Read more »
Thanks, Rick. That helps a lot. To be clear, I am not arguing against a person praying to God and asking “God save me,” “God be merciful to me a sinner” or anything like that. Neither am I arguing against people professing their faith. How else would we begin to know they have it? But to me some of your words seemed to be conflating a seeking prayer to God and a profession of faith as being the same thing, the latter of which I see not as us being saved but as us telling others we are saved. I… Read more »
“When one is ready to repent of their sins and believe in Jesus, how else can one possibly express that faith to the Lord…?”
…baptism
That is a bit of a straw man there, Rick.
The argument is not against PRAYING, but against RECITING.
A. “Go to God and confess your sins in repentance and then put your faith in Christ.”
B. “Pray this prayer after me. Father, I admit I am a sinner….”
The danger is generally seen in the “say this after me” prayer in which the penitent repeats the words of the evangelist instead of simply expressing his heart to God.
It’s not about prayer, but about recited prayer.
For me, the issue is determining that a person is truly repentant and ready to believe. I never lead an entire congregation in a sinner’s prayer, but if I was talking to someone who expressed repentance and a desire for Christ, I would feel free to help them find words for their prayer.
IT would seem to me that the danger of confusion increases exponentially if you have a whole congregation go through the prayer or even pray it in front of the whole congregation. Get these people into personal conversations with knowledgeable believers!
That’s me. NOT saying that’s the only right way, but that’s my way.
I don’t even have a problem with the “repeat after me” type of sinner’s prayer, if it follows a clear gospel presentation and appeals for a genuine expression of heart change rather than a superficial and meaningless ritual. I firmly believe that the exact same evangelist-led Sinner’s Prayer can be prayed by two people—with the first genuinely converted by grace through faith and the second falsely professing an insincere conversion. I don’t know about any straw men, but the problem in this situation with an evangelist led “repeat after me” type of prayer, is not the Sinner’s Prayer itself, but… Read more »
*the* process itself
Thanks Dave. There was a time in my Christian life, I too believed all you had to do was “Pray the Prayer.” Of course I am not saying God won’t save a sinner praying it. That is up to the Holy Spirit convicting the person praying. But as you know 2 Corinthians 5:17 tells us when Christ saves, the person has a life change.I have seen people praying the prayer just to get me to shut up!
Jim Luders
Yep. Hope all is well on the other side of the state.
I still say that baptism is the “sinner’s prayer” (see the post I wrote with that title a couple of years ago). Throughout the book of Acts, it is the consistent initial response we see to conviction by the gospel and Spirit unto a desire to follow Jesus. Acts 2, they ask Peter what they must do and he says, “repent and be baptized.” Then they went and baptized 3000 of them. Acts 8, the Ethiopian eunuch says, “look, water! What prevents me from being baptized?” Paul and the jailer, etc. In 1 Peter 3, Peter even writes that baptism… Read more »
Amen, Brother.
It is my theory that this is why baptismal regeneration became popular so quickly, Mike. When someone came to Christ, the first thing they did was look for water to baptize him in – no classes, no vetting, no instruction. Believe and get baptized – generally in the same hour, not just the same day! So much so that people began to confuse the act of baptism with the process of salvation – much like they later did with “going forward” or “praying the sinners prayer.” The act that accompanies salvation and testifies to its reality often becomes confused with… Read more »
That would probably go back to how well we do the “teaching” that Jesus commanded after the baptizing. 🙂
To paraphrase a former prof of mine: “I’d rather risk erring on the side of thinking too much about baptism than too little.” Too often I think we go the “too little” route as we treat it as something to get tacked on later.
I understand WHY we’ve changed our process so much from the NT process, but it makes me wonder. The idea of someone being saved and then thinking about baptism for weeks, months, years, before actually going into the water was as foreign to them as fog machines and laser light shows.
I wonder if we gain or lose by all our classes and vetting processes prior to baptism.
That’s quite a rabbit trail.
It is… perhaps another blog post! 😀
Mike and Dave, I think the immediacy of baptism or the lack of it is dependent on the culture. If confessing Jesus as Lord is a risk for life or living, then those taking that risk are far more likely to be genuine. And fr 1st century Jews who were ostracized fro their synagogues and communities, confessing Jesus was a risk. And for Gentiles, taking Jesus as their ONLY Lord and thus de-lording Caesar was a risk not undertaken lightly. But in America, where for 200 years being a Christian was an accepted rite of culture, and the rejection of… Read more »
Dave, I like this line “We must never give people the idea that reciting a prayer is somehow a saving act, or that going forward is, or that getting baptized or taking communion or doing good works or anything else is. Salvation comes by the grace of God to those who feel the weight of their sin’s guilt, call to God in repentance and place their faith in Christ.” That kind of boils it down. But, I will say that we all (those that confess Christ as Lord) have recited a prayer,….maybe not like the Pastor might have liked or… Read more »
Of course I meant Christ, not “Chris”. 🙂 I write that name a lot! Might need to work on the other more 🙂
That seemed an edit worth making. I went ahead and changed that for you.
I believe if you pray the Sinner’s Prayer and mean it, you are saved.
http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2009/09/saved-by-sinners-prayer.html
David R. Brumbelow
I think you are missing the point, David. The way the prayer is used, there is sometimes a danger that someone might pray the prayer and think that they are saved BECAUSE they prayed that prayer. OF COURSE if a man sincerely prays confessing his sin and trusting Christ he is saved. But the danger is that even though the evangelist/pastor might say, “only pray this prayer if you mean it” the person in the pew might get the wrong idea. We have to be very careful there. There is danger in the public recitation of the prayer and I… Read more »
I believe one of the few times our Lord Jesus Christ used the word justified ( 5 times ) was in reference to a Sinner being justified after praying” Lord be merciful to a me a sinner”. If it was good enough for the Lord it is good enough for me.
I find myself arguing one side because only one side is arguing their side here, but that’s a weak argument in my mind, Greg. The sinner did not receive justification because he recited a prayer, but because he humbled himself in repentance and sought God.
I don’t think that passage is soundly argued as justification for unexamined use of the Sinner’s Prayer and the “If it was good enough for Jesus it’s good enough for me” – well, I’m not sure how to respond to that.
Point not well taken!
I believe he was justified because he was chosen before the foundation of the world regenerated before he exercised faith : wait that is eisegesis not biblical accurate to the text. He who calls upon Lord shall be saved.I wasn’t calling for the ” unexamined use of the Sinner’s Prayer” i was just pointing out that certainly seems to be a sinner’s prayer. John 4:10 “Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given… Read more »
Greg,
You said:
“i just kinda of think that to ask is to pray isn’t it.”
Yes, but that isn’t the point. Neither is Calvinism, of which I am a 5 pointer.
The point isn’t whether people should or shouldn’t pray. The point is that although there is nothing wrong with the sinners prayer, maybe it has been misused.
Your examples are not about the Repeat-after-me-sinners-prayer which only goes to show that maybe such a prayer is not a Biblical model, since in the Bible people pray without such prompts and aids.
Greg, I’m pretty sure that I never made an argument based on Calvinist doctrine or argued regeneration preceding faith.
If you know me you know that I’ve developed an allergy to Calvinism discussions on this blog, so I generally stay away from them.
I was simply pointing out the utter weakness of your argument – not making any argument from Calvinism. It would be my fondest hope that we could keep Calvinism and anti-Calvinism out of this.
Greg,
But Jesus didn’t tell him to say that.
And neither did Jesus say, “repeat after me”.
The people who prayed, “Have mercy on me,” did so from their own minds and heart WITHOUT having to be told what they needed to say.
Wouldn’t you say a good Gospel presentation leaves its hearers knowing what is required of them to be right with God?
Yes? Then what is the need of the “Repeat after me sinners prayer”?
I wasn’t arguing for a 123…. repeat after me type of prayer. I am pointing out the time Jesus said time a man prayed and asked God to be merciful and he was justified.Yes a good Gospel presentation is a must. Lewis Sperry Chafer said if you get to the end of your sermon and urge men to believe and they say believe what you have failed.
Greg,
What then were you arguing for, or better yet, who were you arguing against?
No one is saying prayer isn’t a component of salvation.
Having come out of a WoF styled environment and churches, for me the misuse of the Sinners Prayer (or something very much like it) is very real. Perhaps, if some Southern Baptists were more knowledgeable about what goes on in other type churches, they would not be so quick to dismiss the danger that such prayers or recitations actually have on Christianity as a whole. I was apart of churches were the “alter call” was 2/3rds of a service that “lasted” 2 hours. The pastor, or the speaker would continually say things like “I know there at least one person… Read more »
In an altar call, which result would you rather have? A. Two TRUE professions and One FALSE profession. B. One TRUE profession and Zero FALSE professions. I would rather have A. No one aims for false professions, but it is an occupational hazard that when you call people to repentance and faith, some of them are going to do a lousy job of getting saved, which is to say that they are not really going to get saved at all. I can speak with the greatest clarity of thought of which I am capable, and sometimes people will misunderstand the… Read more »
In an altar call, which result would you rather have?
A. Two TRUE professions and One FALSE profession.
B. One TRUE profession and Zero FALSE professions.
But these aren’t all the options, and we can run this into silliness for no reason. For example, which result would you rather have?
A. Two TRUE professions and One FALSE profession.
B. Three TRUE professions and Zero FALSE professions.
I don’t see how this helps forward the conversation.
In your scenario, of course, I prefer B. I prefer the option that results in the greatest number of TRUE conversions, regardless of how many false ones there might be. I want to catch the greatest number of fish possible (TRUE conversions) regardless of how many I THINK I have caught (FALSE conversions) that fall back into the water. Here’s one that might clarify matters even more. Which would you rather have? A. One TRUE profession and Ten FALSE professions. B. Zero TRUE professions and Zero FALSE professions. I would choose A. The way this helps forward the conversation is… Read more »
The thing is, whatever scenario we create and ask “Which would you rather have” everyone is always going to pick the one that looks best, with the best ratio of true professions to false professions. This doesn’t prove anything one way or another about a preacher saying a “sinner’s prayer” for someone to repeat. You asked earlier, “For all those who have problems with the “Sinner’s Prayer,” I am at a loss to figure out what the alternative might look like.” I think the problem is we are looking at what others are doing for the alternative rather than looking… Read more »
Rick, You said: “I can speak with the greatest clarity of thought of which I am capable, and sometimes people will misunderstand the message and make a false profession. Sometimes, they come down the aisle, say all the right things, get dipped in the baptistry and then we never see them again. It happens. It breaks my heart, but it happens.” I agree with you that even though one publicly presents the fullness of the Gospel, many of those who hear fail to understand, which is why the altar call should only be the start of their path to God… Read more »
I am not arguing just pointing out the scriptures that indicate that ones faith could be expressed as a “sinners prayer”.Have a great day Sunday’s coming PEACE
I can count on one hand how many times I’ve done a “repeat after me” mass prayer. I tend to talk alot toward the end of my presentation more about surrender and submission to King Jesus – calling those in attendance who desire to do so to come forward so that we can chat briefly and talk after the service – Or grab me after the service, or get with me about an appointment (or something similar) . I do this for a number reasons – one is so neither the person who comes forward nor myself feels rushed. I… Read more »
I think Tarheel’s comment is a good comment. I think it makes sense. it has been my experience that most of the people who “come forward” / “walk the aisle” / “respond to the invitation” or however you might desire to identify what it is that I do after preaching the gospel is because they have already responded to the presentation of the gospel earlier in the week and the “coming forward” is to make it known to the church (a public profession that they are now Christ followers) that they have repented of sin and have believed the biblical… Read more »
I agree with CB here and would add that if we did a better job of not just caring about a person when they first accept Christ but making a point of discipling them, we would have fewer conversations like this about the “methods” of seeing people coming to Christ- whether “sinners prayer” or “revivals” or what not. The best cure for “easy believism” and “false conversion” is robust, ongoing discipleship. I truthfully don’t think you can really say you are evangelizing if you are not also discipling. Jesus connected the two in the Great Commission. I see no reason… Read more »
absonjourney has the win here. Part of the abuse of the sinner’s prayer is that the full Gospel is often not preached. I’ve heard countless John 3:16 sermons that leave out any mention of the words “sin” or “repent” or anything like it. On the other hand, there are plenty of new professions of faith that don’t have a full understanding of the Gospel. Discipleship is the answer. It is a far more egregious error to count heads at the tent meeting, get them dunked, and then leave them to fend for themselves ideologically by completely ignoring the “disciple” part… Read more »
I don’t think I’ve seen these in this conversation yet from Romans 10: “Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved….”For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” It seems, from Romans 10 at least, that for all our talk about inward faith & repentance, that this passage seems to emphasize some kind of calling on the Lord to… Read more »
Right on Andy- I don’t think anyone should belittle verbalization of ones profession of faith – I think you rightly pointed out that confession is a byproduct of genuine faith.
Agreed. I think Andy makes a good observation on the subject of one’s receiving and surrendering to the gospel of Christ.
Andy, I hope I am not perceived as one who is belittling a verbal response, for that is not my intent. A response is expected. On the other hand, I believe it is important to distinguish between the heart belief which leads to justification and the mouth confession which leads to salvation (deliverance). I think Romans 10:10 does not mean public confession is a prerequisite for salvation. (Which I don’t think you are saying either, but this text is important to the kind of discussion we’re having.) If we examine the following verses, we find that another act of the… Read more »
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a well done sinner’s prayer that comes on the heels of a well done Gospel presentation. When that occurs, false conversions, while unfortunate, are God’s problem, not ours. That is not meant to be flippant. The problem that can occur with sinner’s prayers and altar calls is when we try to do God’s job for him. Sinner’s prayer abuse is closely tied to altar call abuse, and when we try to elevate a methodology to inviolate status. Altar calls can be fine, but they are a method, and are not employed by everyone,… Read more »
” If a sermon does not end in Christ, what good is it?”
Yep.
Might I go a step further? If the *entire* message is not not rooted in Christ and the text of Scripture – then what good is it? I hate to hear “preachers” present moralism, social/prosperity gospel trash, chase rabbits and pet agendas or whatever for thirty minutes and then tack Jesus on the end for the altar call – it really hacks me off in fact. (I do not think that is what you are suggesting Bill Mac or CB in his agreement of your statement – I just wanted to say that and here seemed like as good as… Read more »
Tarheel,
Agreed. I think Bill Mac would agree also and that was his implication and most certainly it was mine. . . . although, I might chase a few rabbits from time-to-time.
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Acts 2:21 ‘AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’ I just want to say that Dave Miller has written a very good article, here, which I agree with. Very balanced and good, Dave. Also, to be saved, we must call on the Lord….whether… Read more »
” Easy believism is when repentance is not preached. Easy Believism is not good, But, using a Sinner’s Prayer is not necessarily Easy Believism.” This is true. Well stated, Vol. BTW, on behalf of Vol, let me just give my opinion. I do not believe he has ever in his life as a Gospel Preacher and Pastor ever promoted anything near a false gospel, or abused his pastoral position when he shares the gospel of Christ with a lost person in public worship or in private conversation. Let me also state, that although I have strong disagreements with many things… Read more »
Thanks, CB. And yes, I have known a few people, who really did preach “Easy Believism,” and who acted like gunslingers trying to get another notch on their belt. They should be rebuked and exposed. I agree.
David
Thanks, CB. I guess. Sort of.
Shoot, when a compliment is that backhanded, brother, it may just be better not to say anything at all. 🙂
Sorry once again for our earlier misunderstandings and my part in any offense.
As I shared when we spoke by telephone personally a while back, I hope we can put those matters behind us.
Anyway, I wish you all the best.
Nothing backhanded about it, Rick. I was just stating what I believe and if it is taken as a compliment or not is of no consequence to me. I believe you preach the biblical gospel. I also believe you put great spin on issues regarding to SBC entities and personalities and I know you did a hatchet job on me. Rick, I believe you are such a great “Master of Spin” that if Clinton and Trump would hire you as their campaign managers, we would elect them both as POTUS, with one being president one week and the other the… Read more »
Dave, I remember reading a book a long time ago called Revival and Revivalism by Ian Murray. In it, he explains what he considers to be the differences between the First and Second “Great Awakenings”, which according to Murray, involve at the core different perspective on soteriology. I’m oversimplifying, but Murray says (as I recall) that the First Awakening emphasized biblical preaching, holiness, and that the fruits of this preaching were repentance and faith. In the Second Awakening, an emphasis developed on methodology, such as creating an environment that was conducive to conversions. For instance, whereas in the First Awakening,… Read more »
This is a serious question, not snark. What is the deal with SBC evangelists? Or at least the ones I have been exposed to? We haven’t brought in an evangelist for quite awhile. I always thought it was odd to hire an outside preacher for a week, someone we didn’t know, and tell our preacher to sit down. Anyway, their methodology was just so formulaic, I wonder if it is being taught in seminary. So often the people who come out to “revivals” are existing church people. Sad, but that’s the way it is. So when the altar call comes,… Read more »
Bill Mac, I will take a shot at an answer to your question. First, I want to state without reservation, there are many good evangelists out out there and many are Southern Baptists. I have used several. However, there are some who use some less than ethical methods. I think there are two major reasons some use these unethical methods. 1). Some are just ignorant. They are theological dwarfs. They simply do not have the theological depth to do any better. They copy what they have seen others do without any serious thought as to whether it is biblical or… Read more »
Bill Mac, what you have described is a caricature of what you believe an evangelist is. I have used several of the finest evangelist we have as SB. They feel no pressure except to present the Gospel. I hope you don’t feel you are the only one to have figured out God produces results. Finally, if I had a revival scheduled for over a year and only my church members showed up I would consider myself to have failed as a leader in this instance. Revivals are hard work when done right and I am convinced that is why they… Read more »
Here is the issue Dean, if your point of reference for the state of evangelists is limited to fairly compact circle of trusted friends, mentors, churches, ect; than you may not have an accurate view of what is going on. My experiences with “evangelists” while outside of the SBC, fall in line with and match what Bill Mac has shared here. If you use the same few evangelists and cycle them every few years, if you only use a “new” one after asking about them from fellow pastors you know and trust, than you may just not know about the… Read more »
It is not a caricature at all. This is my experience. I’m sure there are good evangelists out there. Perhaps they stay closer to the bible belt.
“Revivals are hard work when done right and I am convinced that is why they are a dying animal.” Dean, for some reason when I read this it made me reminisce about how things used to be. I came on the scene in the late 1950s, only having heard about two week revivals. When I was a kid a revival meeting spanned from Sunday to Sunday. Some churches had both morning and evening services, and all the churches near one another tried to schedule theirs so their sister churches could visit and help. We played little league baseball in the… Read more »
“Pastors don’t use evangelists any more” is a statement I started hearing 25 years or so ago.I didn’t much use them and when I did, the experience was generally less positive than using other pastors.
The last ‘revival’ I attended where an evangelist preached was typical: lots of screaming, showboating, and emotional manipulation. I would never use this evangelist and he is regionally popular.
Deserves its own topic…
The last evangelist to come to our church was a student from one of the SBC seminaries, I don’t know which one. It was a disaster of such epic proportion that I can’t even write what happened. I do remember though, that as I was driving him from the airport, that I had to remind him who Pontius Pilate was.
I didn’t much use them and when I did, the experience was generally less positive than using other pastors. Yeah, I tend to be protective with the pulpit. I’ve heard enough bad or non-biblical sermons in my life that I don’t like going with unknown wildcards. We did a 5 week series of Sunday evening “revival” services this past spring. Four guys were from my association, one from another nearby church, all 5 good friends so I knew exactly what I was getting. Whether for pulpit supply or a special service, I either have to know the person or they… Read more »
Amen, Mike.
I have never been one to invite a person to do a meeting for me because he was my friend. I have never invited a person I was not familiar with to do a meeting for me. I have become close friends with some evangelist after I used them. Bob Pitman, Junior Hill, John Phillips, Danny Lanier and Don Taylor are a few men who I love dearly, some are in heaven now. When I think of my friend, Junior Hill, walking through an airport shuffling alone or driving through the night after preaching, knowing his health is poor and… Read more »
I would like to point out that no one can come to Christ unless God draws that person. I totally believe in Irresistible Grace and the drawing power of the Holy Spirit. A sinner is saved even before they take that first step to the front of the church. If there is no drawing power, there is no first step. All we can do is to invite the sinner to come forward. I am totally against a sinners prayer lead by a preacher. I think we should give an explanation to the convert of what just happened, give a little… Read more »
God has used, and continues to use Revival Meetings and evangelists. Some do not know this because they haven’t grown up in this type environment and have never used an evangelist. There are bad evangelists, just as there are bad pastors, but not all. Go to revivals and evangelism conferences in your area. Find the kind of evangelists that fit your situation. An evangelist will do things differently, but if he didn’t, then you don’t need him there in the first place. A pastor can learn from an evangelist, and your people will enjoy hearing someone different. Putting a priority… Read more »
Southwestern Seminary has revival teams who, each March, preach revivals throughout the nation.
Some of you might be interested in contacting them.
http://swbts.edu/campus-life/revive-nation/
David R. Brumbelow
I like the sinner’s prayer. When I was a young person, the sinner’s prayer articulated what at the time I could not. It guided me in what to say to a God I had no comprehension of. I just knew that I was a sinner and needed Christ as my Savior. Even if the person is not genuine in saying the prayer, they have knowledge of what they have to be willing to give up for Christ. That is something most do not forget and many later in life remember that prayer and in their desire to be saved, they… Read more »
My biggest problem with having people recite a sinner’s prayer is that there is danger in people resting in a ritual instead of focusing on the work of Christ and their personal response to the work of Christ by their saving faith. I have talked with many (usually ages 45 and older) that have said they walked an aisle and “prayed the prayer” years ago but still doubt if they are saved. They tell of nothing changing in their lives. This could be a result of either a non-regenerate situation or lack of discipleship. Only God knows. As a result… Read more »
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Also, we’re saved by repentance and faith…Acts 20:20-21. We are not saved by “living a lifestyle for Christ.” We’re saved by grace thru faith. We’re saved by surrendering our lives to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. And, the way to express that is to PRAY and ask the Lord for His great… Read more »
Sir, I did not say that we are saved by living a lifestyle for Christ. I said responding by faith isn’t always a prayer (although prayer can be involved), but it’s a lifestyle of living for Christ. Part of this lifestyle is prayer. Confession is made unto salvation. If you believe it, you will say it. You will also then live it. It’s not works that save as James points out, but its works as a result of being saved. Salvation calls for a response both verbally and in the way we live. My point is that it may be… Read more »
Yes, I agree, Robbie. We need to preach repentance and faith to people. And, just saying a prayer doesn’t save anyone. I agree. But, a person does express repentance and faith to God thru prayer. Romans 10:9-10 and other passages are very clear on this. We must CALL on the name of the Lord to be saved. I mean, we don’t just wake up, one morning, and say, “Hey, something happened to me. I just got saved. Wow!” No, we must make a conscious choice, and ASK God for His great gift of salvation. We must turn to Him, with… Read more »
It is hilarious to me that an article written encouraging us to look at the big picture, is torn apart by nitpickers who missed the whole point. Especially amusing is that the ones who claim more “discernment ” are the ones who miss the point the most.
https://www.facebook.com/sermonindex/videos/10154939671969199/