This is the SBC Plodder at his curmudgeonly best! (He used that term, I just stole it!)
Young, male, restless conservative SBC seminarians: SNIVELING WIMPS
The irreverent phrase that not-so-gently stepped on the little twinkies of our young, single, male seminarians was, “SNIVELING WIMPS.” How impolite, and impolitic of Plodder to call the few, the called, the proud, the chest thumping, set-the-world-on-fire young male Southern Baptist seminarians ‘sniveling wimps’. Why do that?
Here’s why: You can’t get these guys to go overseas and serve the Lord in some of the more difficult places where the Gospel is needed the most…but you can get girls to do it. In 2012 fully two-thirds of Journeymen were FEMALES, not males, making that program the most inappropriately named program in the entire SBC.
The IMB, best I can tell, stopped reporting gender statistics for this program.
The ‘sniveling wimps’ article was, I think, my most viewed piece, mainly because Danny Akin tweeted it. He agreed with me on this if not on a lot of stuff.
Here’s a recent comment I received. I’ve tweaked it a bit. The commenter was and is anonymous.
I’m a girl about to start my journeyman term. And let’s just say out of the 30 or 40 single people being trained (a figure that includes journey people, apprentice, and career appointments) there are five single guys
….it is WAY harder for girls to go overseas single than guys…and WAY harder for single girls to come back from overseas…still single.
The places in the world that need the gospel NEED male witnesses. Desperately….and so many things single women can’t do in so many other cultures, especially in some parts of the world where the need for the Gospel is greatest.
The excuse of the single males is that there are other things to consider…those men…clearly don’t follow Jesus in a way that puts trust or faith in Him.
Hey, single guys! Yeah, you Biblical He-Manhood and Subservient-Womanhood types. Here a bit of womanhood that should make you ashamed of yourself. You want patriarchy? Try being a real male and being open to serving in places as hard as this girl. Even if you do, you will have it easier than her because of the male-dominated cultures in these places. Nobody cares how well you conjugate greek verbs and how glorously expound the scriptures. Evidently, you haven’t expounded The Great Commission sufficiently for you to believe it yourself.
So, what’s Plodder’s personal mission for David Platt? There are two parts to it.
1. Lend your voice to addressing the issue of young males wimping out of Journeyman service. These guys think you walk on water, Mr. Radical. Give ’em both barrels on this and see what happens.
2. You must be aware by now that some among these hundreds of single girls who answer God’s call and serve in difficult places have not been adequately taken care of. What I mean here is that in my limited exposure to a number of ‘Journeygirls’, several were plopped overseas in a foreign culture and after a short while were isolated, left to live alone, with a support structure and system in place that some judge to be inadequate. This is risky, and irresponsible. The IMB is dodging bullets here. This is also unacceptable. One of the presumptions Southern Baptists have about our wonderful International Board is that we have vast resources and are diligent about taking care of our people. I believe that to be true in general. I’m pointing out a crack in the airframe here. It can be easily fixed.
I have confidence in you to lead in such a way that these are addressed. You are in my prayers.
As for my SBC colleagues who are young, male, restless, sniveling wimps…step up, brethren. We can’t all be megapastors superstars and seminary profs.
[And, if the anonymous Journeygirl would email me at sbcplodder@gmail.com, my wife and I would consider it a honor to pray for you as you go.]
Plodder has got the hammer and the nails here. Needed words. It’s not just in the overseas work either. More and more I am the only man in meetings dealing with poverty, low income issues, and service to the poor.
It’s apparently a lot easier to grow and beard and talk about serving Jesus than it is to do hard things.
Plod on William. I hope people are listening.
I can’t improve on this. I tried. I can’t. Thank you. Can a 60 year old be a Journeyman?
Good observation William, but Id contend this has to be addressed in the cultures of our local churches. Think about where the majority of the worlds 5.5 billion live. Those folks are the sort that we have allowed our American media to tell us are the “wrong people.” We talk about our “passion” for reaching them over there, but in large part call them “the enemy” over here. The result is that our evangelism efforts are targeted toward the “right people” here while we pay others to reach the “wrong people” over there. The culture of many of our churches… Read more »
I agree with most of the sentiments expressed in William’s post and identify with Joel’s solution.
Platt as IMB president can lend his voice but that’s about it.
Joel I tend to agree it lies with the church. This is symptomatic of other issues. The denomination cannot fix many or even most problems except those either created by or directly related to the entities. The church is the field upon which we learn our values, roles, job etc. We spend too much time looking to the denomination to fix the issues. The denomination is too abstract for that. Tarheel is correct Platt can speak to the issue but that is about all. The local church is where it’s at. When the local church steps up and assumes responsibility… Read more »
D.L., definitely the best comment in the stream so far IMHO. It is about the local church. The SBC has a systemic problem of not encouraging young men to serve and lead at the local level, …which spills over to missions regionally and beyond. Sure, many churches have their little pretend services every six months to try to keep the kids interested. But, that is not discipleship, nor is it really an attempt to train young men. It is kind of like waiting to baptize a bunch of folks in the lake for publicity sake (just silliness). I would not… Read more »
Chris
You are welcome. Local, local, local is where it’s at
SBC Plodder gets to the heart of the issue with this statement…”We can’t all be megapastors superstars and seminary profs.” The reason that it won’t be dealt with in most local churches is because too many pastors have bought into this “ministry celebrity” mindset also. Think about it, who are the “heroes” in the SBC? We are proud that we have so many representatives at the latest theological society. Yet, still over 6,000 UPGs. While the number of mega-churches in this country is growing, they still only represent one-half of one percent of all churches in the U.S. And while… Read more »
Randy
I think we are at the beginnings stages of seeing pastors become less celebrity oriented, at least I would like to think that.
Question – is the “Celebrity” really anything new? I see lots of people bemoaning it today – it seems to be a popular whipping boy – but doesn’t the idea go right back? What were Paul and Peter is not “celebrities”? What was Charles Spurgeon, or Martin Luther, or John Calvin, Edwards, The Wesley’s, and so many others during their time and obviously beyond? I do tend to agree with whoever it was that said – it’s probably a good idea –that those we might look at as our heroes be people who are already dead and can’t mess up… Read more »
Of course I’m not implying that pastors seminary professors/presidents, Entity heads etc. are Apostles please don’t read that into my comments about Peter and Paul – I’m only saying that it could be argued that they were “celebrities” – of course depending on how one defines the word/phrase.
Don’t see too many celebrities being crucified up-side-down or be-headed because of their testimony for Christ.
That’s because we live in America – and that they may come. Agree?
In all honesty my issue is not with the celebrity pastor, but with the person who makes them a celebrity.
That’s a really interesting sounding perspective, DL.
I’m just not sure what it means.
Bawahahaha!
Celebs can’t be celebs without a fan base. If we stop celeb adoration there will be no more celebs……or something like that
The “celebrity culture” thing is neither new, nor does it necessarily involve actual celebrity. When I was in seminary decades ago, I belonged to a large church with a significant seminary student contingent. Preschool and children’s ministries were begging for help, while some seminary students were complaining about not having opportunities to serve (i.e., unable to get more “respectable” positions like working with youth or adults).
David
Good insight.
This isn’t new to me. In my experience (small church far outside the bible belt), women are doing most of the kingdom work. I’m a relay center coordinator for Operation Christmas Child. This is collection week, so I get to meet a lot of the folks from neighboring churches. Mostly women.
Maybe we need more uber-macho, chest thumping, MMA watching, “let’s all be manly men” conferences.
Lol….
My friend sent my a link to this article. Interesting take. I found serving as a journeyman to be one of the most exciting periods of life. I would definitely encourage other young guys to consider going. By the same token the IMB sends about 8 single females for every male in the region I went to, so I spent a large portion of my time babysitting grown women who culturally were not allowed to travel around the community without males. This was definitely NOT something I signed up for. When I or other males on the team were not… Read more »
Was that post title written by Mark Driscoll?
Nope. I think I know all the cuss words but exercise sufficient self control not to use them.
I don’t mind a provocative topic title occasionally and think the young theologs will benefit from being tweaked from time to time. Shoot, I’d write a whole ‘sniveling wimp’ book but don’t have the $200k it takes to get one on the NYT best seller list these days
That’s a bit of a cheap shot, Driscoll’s cussing days are several years in the past and he has apologized for them numerous times. But this echoes his macho-type language.
Great blog Plodder, I am appreciative of all the responses. I was wondering if some of you guys commenting here would share your experiences as journeymen. Maybe the testimonies would motivate some of the wimps.
While I can’t comment on the Journeyman program, I can comment on working with the urban poor. My wife and I have the joy of planting the Gospel in the neighborhood where we both grew up. When we were kids, this was a blue-collar, working class neighborhood. But, over the past 40 years, it has declined. The median family income here in half the national average, with one fourth of the families living on less that $15K a year. Our zip code is second in the county for “accidental” drug overdose deaths. Heroine is a real problem here. Because of… Read more »
God bless you, Randy (and Wife).
The question is why so many more females than males? No doubt many causes. On the micro level where one male concludes that God hasn’t called him to such, I have no response to the competent soul’s discernment of God’s will. That is a subjective trump card. All I can do is ask for a serious consideration of such a calling. On the macro level we are left to conclude that (a) God isn’t calling as many men as He is women, and/or (b) we are devaluing overseas service for males while elevating less arduous ministry stateside, and/or (c) males… Read more »
Because the SBC does not allow women to be pastors but lets them do pastoral work on the mission field?
This may be true, Chris, and contribute to the imbalance between genders in the program; however, the pastoral ministry is not as readily available to single men, so I don’t think it would account for most of the disparity.
The single men claim a need to proceed with seminary work and marriage and not delay for two years. Some SBC leaders far above my pay grade (Danny Akin, Johnny Hunt for two) look at the breakdown and view it as I do.
Question. I seems to me that women have always been dominate in missionary work. In days gone by nearly every GA at GA camp at some time or another experienced a “call” to be a missionary. this did not happen at RA camp.
In seminary back in the dark ages I knew several women who were studying to be creed missionaries, but only one or two men.
Am I on target at all? Have i spoken to the thread?
“admission by male candidates of pornography use ends or delays male applicants.”
I wonder how the question is asked of applicants and what level of pornography use is seen as a disqualifier.
Just curious what you guys think: Is going to the ethnic groups a call or command? Go, make disciples, of all the ethnos ( Nations) . I guess I see it more as a command. Of course like you say “calling” is the trump card that no one can argue against.
If he was speaking to all Christians, I suppose all Christians are commanded to go overseas.
Sounds good to me 🙂
Of course not all ethnos are overseas. 800 languages spoken in NY city alone.
Ken, you make a good point but it may have one flaw. You quote the command as “Go.” That is a participle. As such it will not support the idea that we must change geography to fulfill he Great Commission. As a participle it carries the force of “present action.” Missions don’t start overseas. Moving to another country will not fulfill the Great Commission. One needs to start making disciples where one finds oneself and keep going as far as God would lead. This emphasis in this thread of “missions” being somewhere else is a bit myopic to me. That… Read more »
William, Nicely written, as usual—albeit a bit harsher in tone. So what is our hypothesis here? That God is actually calling more young men to serve as Journeymen, but they are not answering His call, stubbornly refusing to obey, heading to Tarshish to meet up with Jonah? Or could it be that God is actually calling these young men to do other things—go to seminary, plant churches, or possibly serve various other mission agencies full time. Are they necessarily wimps? Or just called to serve in other ways? Since we all agree that God is the One who calls, maybe… Read more »
I addressed the micro/macro aspects of God’s calling in a comment above but, yes, it is my contention that God is calling more males to these areas and that they are not responding. Would we conclude that God is not calling males to areas where there is an absence of the Gospel and in which areas females cannot serve as a substitute because of severe cultural restrictions? Surely not. My view of how God calls individuals includes the influence, teaching, and preaching of individuals like Platt, yourself, and others. In suspect you do not dispute this. We both have an… Read more »
William, I think this is true not just for young men but for men who presently have a stable pulpit to stand behind weekly. I believe there is a call upon their lives to walk away from that to serve in the uttermost parts of the world. I believe that they could set the example for those younger men who we call out / call names when they don’t go. Can we really say, it is not our calling to go yet expect a younger generation of men to say it is theirs? Stepping away from the comfortable American pulpit… Read more »
Why just from behind the pulpit? Why not from behind the desk or the assembly line or the wheel? Let’s not limit God’s call.
But I appreciate what you say about setting the example. Those of us who are past the young and single stage can’t really chide them for not going if we won’t go ourselves.
I guess I mention the pulpit because that is where I stand and where William stood for decades but is now calling out those who do not go.
I agree with William but think the story or wimpification comments point to him also. The “going” is way bigger than the Journeyman program.
He can give excuses for his choices to stay stateside as can those he wants to call out for making the same choice.
ok, someone explain to me what a Journeyman is.
http://imb.org/go/serving.aspx#Journeyman
“Journeyman missionaries are recent college graduates with a passion to take the Gospel to some of the hardest, least-evangelized places on earth.
Serving for two to three years, Journeymen must be between the ages of 21-26 and have completed an undergraduate degree…”
Also, go to imbstudents.org for more info…
Anyone know: is there a particular reason why they have to be college graduates?
Great question… that crossed my mind as well. Surely, there is some sort of justification,….I’d like to here it. I’m not sure I would but that constraint on the mission.
The J program provides a good many people who later join the career IMB personnel for which a degree (and often grad work or degree also) is necessary. I’d guess it is a program considered important as a transition to overseas service without the extremely high level of investment of either party that accompanies career appointment.
You could ask the board. I’m sure they have been questioned on this before.
I received two answers years ago to this question. (1) The thinking was that the nature of the work needed a person with a college eduction. (2) Hopefully it would serve as a feeder program to career missions for which a seminary degree was needed. Mission service corp was developed for those who perhaps did not have a degree. The spark for this program was the fact that too many “career” missionaries were serving one term or less and leaving the board. There was a lot of expense getting missionaries ready for the field and it was wasted when they… Read more »
There is no doubt a real problem with the fact that our men are not headed to the mission field and it is good to call them out and even use some strong language. At the same time, like other comments above I see this as a problem much larger than the IMB. This is a problem that the church faces on its most basic local level. I would venture to say that apart from pastors, the vast majority of ministry of any sorts being done in the SBC is done by women. I do think you should be a… Read more »
As one of the 30 year old males on here I’d like to point out that the first pastor I ever had who even mentioned things like the Journeyman program was David Platt. And he conveyed William’s concerns powerfully to his congregation in Birmingham, so I feel sure he will do the same in his new role. But this highlights the bigger issue. Why was I able to grow up in SVC life, be in several major megachurches during college, and NEVER even hear about the Journeyman program? That’s not an IMB problem brothers, that’s a local church problem. Perhaps… Read more »
I am a retired IMB missionary and I currently teach missions at Mid-America Baptist Seminary. Here are some random responses to Plodder: 1. Your basic premise is correct. There are lots more female Journeymen than male. I taught at the 2007 West Africa meeting of our IMB missionaries. At that meeting I was told they had 22 female Journeymen and 2 males. 2. The Personnel Department staff people at the IMB tell me that lots of the single males are disqualified because they have recently viewed pornography (within the past 12 months). 3. I believe that lots of young men… Read more »
I think #3 may be a key issue that’s not getting adequate air time. How many young men are opting to prepare for full time missionary service as soon as possible without taking a 2 year break from academic preparation? When I’ve caught up with former male seminary classmates at the SBC annual meeting or other places, I’ve actually been very pleased with a high percentage who have been appointed as full time IMB missionaries and we’re back for various reasons or were well into the process of being appointed & getting ready to go. None of those guys (that… Read more »
That’s autocorrect on we’re for were.
Yes, number 3 makes a lot of sense. Once on the academic circuit I would not interrupt for a two year job unless I needed that two year experience to determine if I was interested in career status.
“The Personnel Department staff people at the IMB tell me that lots of the single males are disqualified because they have recently viewed pornography (within the past 12 months).” If any viewing of pornography within the past year is an automatic disqualifier, I suggest the IMB take a more nuanced approach. On one hand, I completely understand the IMB’s concern. We definitely want our Journeymen — representatives of the SBC and, more importantly, Christ — to have the highest standards of sexual purity. Also, many Journeymen may serve in situations where they are somewhat isolated from other believers. The stress,… Read more »
Agreed, Jeff.
Good observations.
Of course such would require more active and engaged approach than just looking at an answer to a question on a questionnaire and arbitrarily determining fitness to be a missionary.
True. If they want to ask that on the questionnaire, they could say:
“Approximately how many times have you viewed pornography in the past 12 months? For any answer other than “zero”, please explain what steps you have taken to address this issue.”
The personnel folks could then follow up during the interview process if the applicant is a good candidate overall.
Or he could be placed in a third world country where he can’t get good wifi.
Ha! You make a good point, though. Although the 3rd world missionaries I know have internet access, I’m sure some don’t. If they’re sent someplace where they have to take an internet sabbatical, it could be a good thing. Better to have them serving the Lord on the frontier rather than sitting at home in front of a computer.
I have met quite a few Jgirls and male Journeymen and I appreciate the service of all who choose this route in the Lord’s work. The gender disparity is nothing new and nothing that David Platt has not known and that the IMB has not attempted to address for years. Numerous sources tell me that pornography is a problem for male candidates, not surprising for twentysomething males today but an issue that I was unaware had such an impact on candidates for this program. I trust the board is addressing this with candidates and pastors and leaders are doing so… Read more »
Plodder,
I absolutely agree that females are more responsive to the call to missions. Most of our SBC seminaries have great scholarship programs for former Journeymen. As one who has taught missions in seminaries, two years experience overseas as a Journeyman makes seminary missions courses more beneficial. What the professor is saying is not just theory, but reality, to the returned Journeymen. So, I am encouraging the young men I speak with to serve as a Journeyman and then enroll in seminary.
I appreciate your approach. I think any guy who spends two years overseas has an opportunity to grow in grace, discipline, and knowledge and be better equipped to serve Christ whether vocationally or not.
Why is it a problem that the majority of j-men are female? Interesting? Yes. A problem to be solved? No. There is a strong and unfounded assumption behind this article that gender inequality among j-men reflects some deficiency among young men, as compared to commendation for the larger numbers of young women. It may be that there are good reasons young men are enlisting in smaller numbers. It may be that there are good reasons young women are enrolling in larger numbers. I will suggest one: Much of what I hear among missions minded college students has to do with… Read more »
The elephant in the room is that these young pastors face enormous pressure to have a wedding ring on their finger by the time they graduate from seminary in order to be a suitable candidate for churches to hire. therefore, these young men think, “Why should I spend two years of prime dating time in a wretched, third world country, with no or few suitable women – the women journeymen, when I could be here in America spending my free time on e-harmony of christianmingle.com finding a wife?” You can’t honestly criticize them for this perspective, because that is the… Read more »
If the guys think as you say, they aren’t worthy of that calling, not of a pastoral calling and should get their spiritual life straightened out first.
“God, I’m under stress…can’t follow you right now. Maybe later. Bye.”
You didn’t address the reality that they face from the prospective churches which want a married man. The guys may be desiring to be a Journeyman, however, they know that when they get back to the states, they will still be single and that is not a resume enhancer in looking for a church. Also, have you forgotten the thread that was on this blog where the poster said that he though it was best to get married early (I think he got married at 19) and many chimed in with agreement and their age at matrimony. The two year… Read more »
I have faith that the lord will take care of these guys. They should listen to Him.
Praise God for “Journeygirls” and the women who serve faithfully in various roles throughout the SBC. Our ladies have been at the front of local churches across America for decades promoting both home and foreign mission efforts, when their men weren’t. They outnumber men as Sunday School teachers in the SBC. They coordinate food and clothing drives. They know who the widows are and reach out tho them. They show up at church on Sunday evenings with the kids, while their men are propped up in a recliner watching football. You can find them interceding for souls in church prayer… Read more »
What a great article. Have not read all the responses so not sure what others have said. I serve as a missions pastor and an IMB trustee. I am fortunate enough to live close to the ILC and make frequent trips up there. Women do dominate the J MAn program. Around 7-1 odds, female to male. I would say that the problem lies with all of us: Church and Denomination. It seems we value men staying home and building great churches in America more than we value them being missionaries living in some obscure place in the 3rd world. I… Read more »
7 to 1 is way beyond any figure I’ve seen. I’d love to have the actual breakdown.