Timing matters . . . especially when trying to pull in young mission-minded pastors. These are the guys who attend events for encouragement and learning rather than career advancement. These are guys who see the local church as the focus of God’s work, rather than denominational reform.
I’m not anti-SBC, I’m just wondering how people would choose between attending the Advance 09 or the LoveLoud SBC annual meeting.
Any thoughts?
Update: You can listen to Advance 09 on the Desiring God blog.
I chose the SBC, not for career advancement, but because the church I serve asked that I go to represent the church.
Ok, I re-read the question, and it’s not voiced anti-SBC like I thought. So, I just deleted my first response, and here it is: I’ve never been to the SBC, though I’ve made it to both Georgia and Arkansas State Conventions when I served in those states (currently in Arkansas). I have found Arkansas conventions to be capable of being encouraging, both through the sessions and through the interactions with people. I’m hoping to find the same thing in Louisville, though it remains to be seen.
I haven’t been to a paid conference since 2001 when I was a youth minister, and those are great for challenge and encouragement as well.
How to decide? Well, first of all, the church I serve asked when they called me that I represent them at conventions and association meetings. So, I’m prior committed to honor that request, since I said I would. Second, especially in this case, the two gatherings are too close in date to do both. I can’t miss a week at the beginning and at the end of June. The church would go on, but they wouldn’t really see their pastor one-half of the month, and around here, that’s a big deal. Finally, either trip would take a lot of miles, and the same number of nights in a hotel, the same amount of food. With my budget what it is, the SBC is the better option, as there is no additional $100 fee just to be there.
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I work for a Southern Baptist seminary and am a student at it as well, so I am not the best one for an objective answer, but here we go anyway:
The two really can’t be compared because they have two different functions. Advance 09 will be an edifying, fun and enriching conference I am sure. Advance 09, like most conferences, has no denominational affiliation or responsibility. Thus, what goes on is really a series of “let’s get motivated and go do this” talks. But there is no actual action taken, other than developing and cultivating relationships and networks, which is important.
The SBC annual meeting is a business meeting. There is denominational accountability and responsibility. There are a lot of factors that go into such responsibility and everything takes time to enact and change. Pastors and messengers who come would come as a matter of responsibility to their denomination and their local church. Many people also probably come to see people and continue relationships as well. But I don’t think a majority of people come for spiritual enrichment and edification, where as that would be the main reason people would go to Advance 09 (or other conferences).
I think the local church is the focal point of God’s work and I will be going to the SBC annual meeting. I think the SBC promotes the advance of the local church. I would love to go to Advance09, but I am not. I went to Gospel Coalition and I have a class this week.
Overall, I don’t think the comparison works very well because you are comparing apples and oranges.
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I will definitely be attending the SBC.
David
Never heard of Advance. And I am an SBC pastor, hence messenger. ANd its in my hometown this year. So, SBC.
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This is no contest. Even though I will actually be at the SBC I would choose to go to Advance ’09 if I could. Even without Driscoll, who I think will be the big hang-up for most people here, Advance would still win hands-down.
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I love denominational life. At the same time local church ministry comes first and I think I would be better edified at Advance. So IF I had to choose only one it would be Advance, but that is only because local church ministry comes before denominational work.
We are comparing Apples and Oranges, but if Apples is local church ministry and Oranges is denominational work then Apples always come first. The convention exists in order to serve the churches. Its not the other way around.
I think you guys bring up a real weakness of the SBC annual meeting, most of the people that show up are on some payroll that requires or encourages them to go.
I’m not judging, but it does change the spiritual dynamic.
To follow up with Garrett:
What if getting a vision for local church resurgence is the best way to serve the church (and Jesus)?
Tony,
Micah’s comment covers how I would reply. Getting a vision for local church resurgence is a great way to serve the church and Jesus. But getting a vision for local church resurgence doesn’t help fund 5,000+ foreign missionaries. If I become an SBC pastor, I put the annual meeting on my calendar first thing every year (generally speaking). If we want the convention to continue to be built on local churches, local church pastors need to be involved in the convention regularly and faithfully.
Other conferences go in a different category all together: hence I say they are apples and oranges.
Garrett Wishalls last blog post..Are your church’s ministries coherent or discombobulated?
Agreed – but it’s still a fun question.
I think the timing for Advance was intentional. The argument will be blasted from the rooftops . . . . “See, look how many young pastors, men, attended Advance 09 and how few were attending the SBC . . . SBC losing significance,dying, must be overhauled or will not survive.”
Of course how many hip, young, evangelical guys who would never even think of attending a SBC and could care less about representing the interests of Cooperative Program tithing church members are there in the Raleigh-Durham area? More per capita I imagine than anywhere in the nation. Sure you will have a great turnout; a “sell-out” like a rock concert for the evangelical, reformed, hip “pastors” and their groupies — I wonder if I could sell my extra tix on StubHub?
Oh well. I’m probably just bitter that I couldn’t go.
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Intentional by who? Most of the platform speakers aren’t SBC, and I certainly aren’t involved in SBC politics. If anything, I don’t think the convention was on their radar as in ‘competition’.
This is a tough one for me. In reality, I could have easily gone to either of them thanks to the generosity of my church, and the fact that they don’t require me to attend any conventions/conferences, but allow me the privilege to choose which I want to attend. Having said that, my first response is that I believe I would prefer Advance to the SBC in terms of education and encouragement. However, I have chosen to attend the SBC because I believe, strongly, in the Southern Baptist method of cooperative missions and I desire to see it continue, but to continue in a strengthened manner.
So, I’m skipping Advance and going to Louisville, even though I would probably personally prefer the opposite option. For the good of my church, and our convention, I think it’s more helpful that I attend the SBC.
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Thanks for the response, but your blog says you’d rather be on vacation. That may be the best option for June time away from church.
Tony,
Payroll? Had nothing to do with it, bro!
I chose to go for my own well being. I took off from my secular job to go. The pastor’s conference is the draw for me. I just recently accepted a call to small rural KY church. As such, I told them I’m going, that now I would represent them as a messenger, and suggested we find others that may want to go. But since most folks actually work during the week they won’t be going.
As far as Advance: I don’t know about that, never heard of it until yesterday. But I see Driscoll is top-billing. Well, that settled it for me — ain’t going to happen. If I wanted to hear profanity-laced discussions about “church” I would watch FOX sitcoms.
SBC ain’t perfect. But I don’t have to pay to go this year.
Scotts last blog post..Blog End
You are the odd duck . . . which is why we sat together in Theology class.
Tony…I’d go to the SBC, but I can’t. Even if I weren’t a messenger I’d like to go. I’d like to go hear the various SB speakers and fellowship with SB brothers and sisters. I’d like to witness Peter Lumpkins sign his book, “Alcohol Today”. It’s rather appropriate that his first book would be presented at the very city in which he began his journey in Southern Baptist education. It would be fun to go back to Seminary Village (that is no longer “seminary”), and reminisce a bit about all the ministry dreams we had while praying around our kitchen tables and drinking coffee.
I’d also like to hear the reports of our Mission Boards and seminaries. And I’d like to load up a bus and take the Youth from our church to help them see what they are a part of. selahV
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Any other year, I think Advance would be my choice. But if you look at the preaching schedule at the Pastor’s Conference, the IX Marks sessions, B21’s forum, etc, there are some great opportunities to hear some good Bible preaching that is both “fun and enriching” as well as preparing you to serve your local church, whether on staff or not.
Will Jacksons last blog post..1 Baseball game, a swimsuit, and many diapers later…
Being in Louisville really helps too.
That is true, location does play some role in it. Just like next year with the convention in Orlando (and a presidential election) I would imagine the Annual Meeting would have high numbers. I just hope that there are the same kinds of special events like the IX Marks @ 9 to add to the overall meetings.
Will Jacksons last blog post..1 Baseball game, a swimsuit, and many diapers later…
Orlando, FL – June 15-16, 2010 (family vacation?)
Phoenix, AZ – June 14-15, 2011 (too far West)
New Orleans, LA – June 19-20, 2012 (good choice)
Nashville, TN – June 18-19, 2013 (bla – bla)
Baltimore, MD – June 10-11, 2014 (back North where it belongs)
I like seeing Baltimore on this list. I think the SBC should put an emphasis on going to the places they have held strategic cities, particularly the ones that . . . umm . . . flopped (*cough* Boston *cough*). I mean, come on, Nashville?!?!?
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I am so glad to see Kansas City, Omaha- NE, Oklahoma City, and other Midwest Cities… Oh wait, I forgot, the SBC doesn’t know the Midwest exists.
If this was a year that we would elect a new President I would choose SBC.
Matt,
The “two year term” is only tradition. Technically, the term is only for one year and usually is affirmed for a second. There is nothing that is stopping the convention from electing another president. Actually, that would be a great shake up for the SBC. Rattle the traditions!
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Blog End
I know the two term is only tradition, but let’s be honest, we are Southern Baptist. That tradition in no way will be changing this year!
Men,
Speaking as an SBC Pastors wife (My husband is one of the younger generation pastors who struggles to bridge the gap and find his place with the gray hairs, AND speaking as the granddaughter of one of the gray hairs so often referred to here and everywhere else in SBC life these days….I hear it all from both sides! ) You as the Pastor of an SBC church should be at the Southern Baptist Convention if at all possible. It happens once a year. Other Conferences take place all year long all over the country. Take your family, send your kids to the FUGE camps with the other preachers kids, send your wife to the Pastors Wife Luncheon SHE NEEDS THIS!!!!!!!! Your Children NEED THIS…..When are your kids going to be around other preachers kids if you don’t make it happen for them…..I’m going to go out on a limb here and say you need to make it a priority to make it happen for them………..Make it a vacation tradition…….:) Find a preacher friend and families go together.
What I see happening and hear as a major complaint sooo many times is so many of the young pastors weren’t mentored in any way by the “gray hairs”… they maybe didn’t grow up in SBC churches..their wives didn’ t grow up in SBC churches….they don’t have a loyalty to the convention in any way. They feel they aren’t being heard or that there isn’t a place for them. There is such a dividing wall between the older and younger. What in the world? Teach your wife to love the SBC, teach your kids to love the SBC, quit all the complaining, it becomes a cycle.
Whether you agree or disagree with all that goes on, this IS YOUR Convention. You should support it, love it, and graciously serve your Lord, and your members etc..by attending and educating your people. Learn all you can, roll your sleeves up and get busy (I know you are busy…I live it… ) . This is reminds me of the statement we often hear during election years. “If you don’t vote you loose your right to complain. ” Get in those associations, pray and work for the change you want to see.
I say this at home too……..I’m the cheerleader you see (and she’s
your cheerleader…and we have to find our friends online… at the SBC Pastors Wives Luncheons and the Beth Moore/Lifeway events “Just Between Us Pastors Wives Events.”
There is no other Convention or denomination I would be apart of and we are blessed even with our flaws. We have great men, with great ideas…. old and young alike but our and our churches need to hear unity from its leaders.
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ANd therein lies part of the problem. The young guys don’t want to change the tradition. So tradition stays. and the young guys complain about the traditions some more and not being able to effect change.
YOung guys can complain all they want but until they they walk the talk they will only become the same ole old guys they complain about. Ignoring it does nothing.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Blog End
haha… Scott, you must be kidding. The young guys dont want to change tradition? All young guys, including me, talk about is changing the things that need changed. Electing a president this year is not a tradition that really needs addressed right now, at all.
The young certainly want change. The young are also not ignorant and they are realistic about when some things will and will not change. If you are expecting the young guys in the SBC to try to change all traditions and die on every hill you will never see it happen. The young guys I am aware of could care less about changing the tradition of each president getting an unchallenged second year. If anything they would prefer to just give every president two years.
If anything I see a lot of young guys really speaking our and taking part in more areas than ever this last year or so. People like Matt Chandler, JD Greear, and many other young SBC pastors are walking the talk.
Matt,
Yeah, realistically, electing a different president, at least this late, is probably not possible. And that wasn’t the point of the statement.
Now realize that I’m coming from an “older” young perspective. I’m older in age than most in the young category but am still young enough that I “haven’t been around”.
And I agree there are the “personalities” that are walking the talk. I always give the credit where it is do. However, as a whole, the “young” crowd, me included, come across as a bunch of whiners sipping their espressos over a wi-fi’d blog. Then they go their super mega multi-site church, slip into anonymity and let the “old” guard do the rest. Then they slip out to the real world and start complaining about the direction of the SBC — again and some more.
Getting involved in the traditions, discovering the roots of those traditions, and preserving/discarding the appropriate traditions is better than setting up another blog, or going to another conference, or reading the latest church-help book, etc.
Truth be known, those of the old-guard that I have the pleasure of being acquainted with would love nothing more than to pass the reigns. But the young up and comings have yet to prove that can. I for one accept that challenge to take those reigns. Can I make a huge difference on my own? No. But I can in my own congregation one person at a time. I can by joining with like minded CHURCHES to cooperatively send out missionaries. I can if I stop looking to every upstart conference to do that what the SBC has done for nearly a century and half — preach, disciple, and send.
Scotts last blog post..Blog End
Scott,
I agree with 99% of what you said. I am a former intern of Dr. Hershael York and if anyone is hard on the “young” it is him. Yet, he is one of the most encouraging for the young to dig in and earn their place to take the reins.
You said that most of the “old” you know would love nothing more than to allow the young to take the reins. In my experience, this is true UNTIL the young go in a direction they dont quite like and then it comes to “have you no respect for the older generation?”
Oh what it is to be Southern Baptist… 🙂
My previous reply was in response to Matt. FYI.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Blog End
HOORAY 4 AMY! This ought to be a post, girl! You could title it, The Southern Baptist Convention–it oughta be Mandatory!
Ooops. I could get in real trouble for even suggesting that. But seriously, Amy, you are a cheerleader and we need that kind of voice. Our children need to be with other PKs. Wives need one another. And the vacation together is a great idea. Thanks for stepping up. selahV
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Amy,
You’ve got a good point. That’s something my wife is looking forward to in Louisville: some of the women she met in seminary will be there, plus there’s childcare, which allows both of us the freedom to get involved with a large amount of the activities going on.
And thanks for being a cheerleader for my wife. She needs it, you should meet the husband she deals with, and she can’t even get her pastor to straighten the guy out!!
Doug (very blessed husband and pastor to Ann)
Dougs last blog post..Lifeway misses a point
Would you young bucks let a “really old guy” in here? HA!
Let me say at the outset that I am really proud of most of the “young, restless, and Reformed” bloggers that I read. You guys (and gals) are really sharp. And you make me proud. I think that you should be allowed “a place at the table” and should also “earn a place at the table.” You are surely the “brain trust” upon which we will have to draw in the not-to-distant-future. And I for you thank the Lord for your zeal for personal evangelism, world missions, and church plants.
Concerning the Advance Conf. vs the SBC Annunal meeting, I have one question to pose. I was going to make a comment but I think it will better serve the discussion by asking a question. I set forth the question just after having read, “Why Johnny Can’t Preach!” I teach Speech Communication. And I have two daughters in their twenties. So I have some (?) credentials.
It seems to me that the younger generation, having been reared on the “flash and dash” of the electronics that are with us now, are drawn to the same type of thing in “church doings!” Is that so? If not, I need some corrective to my conclusions. Please help me here. I would tend to say that a majority of the younger SBC pastors might want to opt for the “flash and dash” of the Advance Conf. over against the “boring” nature of the SBC Annual meeting.
I do know the differences. I was young once too. I had “heroes of the faith” and those “stomp and snorters” (and I am not saying those who speak at the Advance Conf are this type) who influenced me. So I do not come into your domain accusing, I come as an “old timer” just asking. Will the intensity of the powerful personalities for the Advance Conference just be a bigger draw just because of what it is? Or will the actual content make the difference? Remember, there will always be Bible conferences that will “twist our crank.” But hopefully, the SBC is here to stay.
If there is a “tone” of any kind taken by anyone, it is not intended. Please forgive!
Another question to consider, or perhaps a different way to phrase the question, at least in my mind:
Do we, even us young preachers, have the stomach to make time for our responsibilities, like attending the SBC, or must everything we do be for our own encouragement and edification?
Not belittling going to things that are encouraging. Personally, though, I think we might be better to put a lot of effort into doing smaller, more local things to encourage each other. It’s great to meet a pastor from the other side of the country that has the same struggles and see him, what, every year, maybe? But is it not better to build a relationship with the pastor across town (or, here in the south, across the street!), and mutually encourage each other?
Just thinking through my fingers this morning…if you can go to both, have a blast!
If you’ll be at the SBC, I’ll see you there.
Dougs last blog post..Randoms thoughts of the week
I know you are trying to be serious and I was always the class clown but… are you serious!? Would I rather go to a business meeting than hear a line-up of my favorite, future thinking, visionary, actually making a difference, speaking my language, wearing my clothes, listening to my…..
Business meeting?! Really?
PS Went to Phoenix and Vegas… confirmed my worst fears.
This will be my first year going to the full SBC Annual Meeting. I chose to go because 1) it’s in Louisville and I briefly attended Southern Seminary, which I loved; 2) my wife’s family lives here and it’s in some way a vacation for us; 3) I am looking forward to much of the Pastor’s Conference (though not all of it – in particular J.D. Greear, Chuck Colson, Francis Chan, and David Platt); 4) being a 33-year old pastor, I am hoping to get more involved in the denomination (as I have in the local association my church is in); 5) finally, I am hoping to see old friend and make some new ones who share my philosophy of ministry and theological convictions.
What I do with they had at the SBC is more breakout sessions, debates, lectures, and seminars. It would be great to see a debate on women’s roles in ministry or on exclusivism v. inclusivism or differing views of hell or any number of theological issues that would spotlight our fine theological minds in the SBC and help us as Pastors to be prepared for arguments that come our way. It would also be great to see some more younger guys doing smaller breakout style sessions. Overall, I would like to see more events geared toward education and theological and philosophical advancement, rather than just a business meeting and pastor’s conference.
I realized after reading my above comment that I wasn’t clear who I was looking forward to hearing at the Pastor’s Conference – the names I mentioned were the one I AM looking forward to hearing.