Dwight McKissic was at our Voices pizza dinner today (wonderful time, thanks Adam) and he was a bit stirred up. Oh, he was his normal self, but wounded by battle with the Resolutions Committee. He tried to bring his resolution on the alt-right out of the trash bin and was told in front of everyone all its faults. Dwight’s motion failed(majority, but not 2/3).
We talked about making a new effort next year to tell the world clearly that racism, white supremacy, and alt-right politics have no place in SBC life.
Then we found out that we wouldn’t have to wait. A motion to resurrect Dwight’s idea failed narrowly, but leaders in the convention realized that we could not let the impression that alt-right racism was acceptable. I don’t know the details but people worked on a solution.
When we wandered back over tonight, a friend told me something was going on and to get the guys back over. Most of us are tired and were not planning to come back. The rushed over. Just before the IMB report the president announced that tonight an action would be taken.
None of us is sure exactly what the solution will be. My guess is that a resolution will be offered that unmistakably and unquestionably states the SBC’s opposition to alt-right racism, white nationalism, and racial politics.
The world is watching – anything less is a very bad message.
Let us infuriate the racists by walking in obedience to God and to his word that reveals his heart. Let us honor the Christ who died to save sinners and to unite them into one body.
Lift those ballots high brothers and sisters. Let there be no doubt where the SBC stands. Thanks to all who are there.
One of the most important things we can do.
I was watching on live stream when Steve Gaines asked for a vote to present the resolution Weds at 2:45. Then the stream froze and I missed the voting! What were the results of the vote?
Overwhelmingly approved.
Nearly unanimously. I didn’t see any votes against. On twitter I saw a few people who said they saw one. One person said he saw 4-5 and this is in a convention hall with 7200 seats, likely 4000-5000 people present
Yes!! Thank you Louis for the information. Please let us know the vote tomorrow. Just in case of another freeze.
I will stand and lift my ballot as high as possible for this resolution.
So thankful the resolution is being re-visited! However, can we also add that groups such as Black Lives Matter are equally racist and to be condemned?
Maybe when whites are enslaved for hundreds of years, systematically excluded from power, and treated as sub-humans, we can write a resolution against black racism.
Sorry Dave, but your comment is almost as disturbing as the racists on twitter complaining about the resolution. Racism, ALL RACISM is wrong. It does not matter who does it, it does not matter what the reasons, it is always wrong. The core reasons for the BLM movement taking voice are important, but how the BLM has acted since, is reprehensible. When you see minority groups on college campus DEMANDING to be segregated, DEMANDING places where “whites” cannot go, I am sorry but that is wrong, and that is a major step back. Did not Dr King say that he… Read more »
The point is that we are still a predominantly white denomination. It would be strange for us to speak out against the alt-right white supremacists and also say, “But look at those guys. They’re racists too.”
Which is why I though/think the anti-alt-right crusade is the wrong way to go. I have said before, and I will say again, I would move heaven and earth to support any motion/resolution designed to disfellowship any church that officially (or unofficially) prevents “non-whites” from being members/attending. I say drop a nuke on those racists and return their CP monies, their direct giving monies, their Lottie and Annie monies. KICK THEM OUT! In my opinion, THAT would go a whole heck of a lot farther in attacking the racist white supremacists in our convention than this alt-right crusade which runs… Read more »
Jeremy and svmuschany – Your argument leans too far in the direction of “if we can’t solve all problems, we shouldn’t solve any problems”. The alt-right movement has been growing in recent years, and this action helps disconnect the perceived connection between southern baptists and white racist movements.
Imagine if reverend Jeramiah Wright condemned racism and the BLM movement. What would you think of members whose only comment was disdain for not also condemning the alt-right (and in the same breath, emphasized all the quasi-racist ideas they agree with BLM on)?
I feel like I should begin this with a WHEREAS, but here goes. Given that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded on the support of slavery, that we have been a predominantly white denomination since our inception, that our white forebears saw fit to enslave African Americans, that our white forebears went to war to save the institution of slavery, that our white forebears saw fit to segregate society, that the historically white Southern Democrat Party–which counted many Southern Baptists among its members–opposed civil rights…. I’d say the onus is upon us to repent and speak out about it before… Read more »
I think that I have figured out exactly what has bothered me about Dave’s reply and the direction the comments took after that. I do not believe that Jeremy was implying that we should draft a resolution specifically speaking to black racism, but rather specifying that racism of all kinds is equally sinful. I believe the resolution accomplishes that while specifically focusing on the thing that is more likely evident in the SBC. To be clear, black racism is just as evil as white racism and we should not have to wait to denounce racism of any flavor until one… Read more »
Chad Dougless: I am simply going to quote Dave Miller because this expresses it better than I could.
“Acting as if there is some equivalence between your suffering as a white man as a victim of racism and the experience of blacks in America is absurd, bordering on the shameful. “
Debbie, I don’t know if you are intentionally misrepresenting my statement, or just did not care to read it. I did not compare my suffering to the experience of blacks in America. Nor did I say that the situations were the same or similar. Your comment is uncharitable at best. I merely pointed out that racism of any flavor is equally evil and we should be quick to attest to that fact (which we did in the resolution) while also denouncing the more specific forms of racism we (the SBC) have been guilty of in the past and/or any forms… Read more »
Chad: I read your comments more than once. My answer remains the same.
I plan on going to my first SBC meeting next year in Dallas. But a quick question, I noticed people on Twitter saying “Head back to the Hall for an important vote” and other similar language. This was all during the time that Dr. Platt was presenting and praying for the missionaries. My question, is it normal for messengers to leave the hall before the evening activities have commenced? Thanks brother!
At any given session there are a lot of people in the hall and a lot of people outside, between the exhibit hall, eating (6000 people can’t normally eat within a 4-block radius so some travel) and all kinds of other reasons.
Nick, if you honestly stay for every part of business you’re going to have a long and miserable time. I’m not saying leave during any particular organizations reports. Whatever you’re passionate about, stick to it. Reports tend to be just that, reports. As an East Coaster, Gateway’s Report doesn’t send shivers down my spine. Just saying. Convention breaks for meals, but there’s literally hundreds of things going on, some simultaneously.
That being said, you’ll enjoy it. Didn’t go this year but I’ll be there in Dallas. Looking forward to meeting Brother McKissic!
Acting as if there is some equivalence between your suffering as a white man as a victim of racism and the experience of blacks in America is absurd, bordering on the shameful.
And learn who the alt-right is. If you are alt-right, repent. If you aren’t, you have no reason to oppose a statement that condemns white supremacist, white nationalist racists.
I agree. Why was the resolution initially rejected by the committee?
The problem is that the term alt right is so amorphous and undefined. What are the defining characteristics of someone who is in the alt right? Ask 10 people and you will probably get 5 different answers. That’s why I think this resolution ran into so much trouble.
km: You have a computer. Do a word search. There is only one definition for the Alt-right, not 5 or even 10. It amazes me how so many claim ignorance who have the resources handy to easily become educated. And sometimes I wonder how ignorant those who claim it really are.
Debbie, I believe that km’s point should be taken more seriously. Words will have a connotation and a denotation. There may be a technical definition for alt-right out somewhere, but the connotation of the term is what is likely to be thought of when people read a resolution especially if they do not know the actual definition of the term. When using specific terms like alt-right it is helpful to define the term, which I think the resolution does with appropriate context, in order to avoid confusion over exactly what is being condemned. Clarity in communication is essential to good… Read more »
Chad: Educate yourself. Learn who the Alt-right is. There is only one connotation. One definition. Learn it. The information is easy to find. Scads of it.
Debbie, Because you seem to be missing the point I am going to quote something from a different thread: “The alt-right is a significant, vocal, satanic movement, even if unknown to the majority of messengers. It’s presumed association with evangelicalism and contemporary conservative politics by many call for a response from our Convention. Especially in a season where the recent election has threatened division among Baptists and caused the world to believe evangelical Christians and Southern Baptists particularly are racists, the Convention needed to speak clearly on this issue. If southern baptists don’t know who the alt-right are, be assured… Read more »
What exactly was accomplished here other than a generally meaningless gesture that will be forgotten by everyone other than the handful of people pushing for it before the week is out? Pardon me for saying so but this smacks of the sort of virtue signaling that is all too common in our online world. People who are sympathetic to the message of the alt-right, and I am not sure many people here even grasp what that message is, are hardly going to be dissuaded by this message and I seriously doubt black Christians will suddenly find the SBC to be… Read more »
Well said Arthur.
Les: I am always trying to figure out what these type of resolutions bother you so much. You aren’t SB so it shouldn’t bother you at all. But even so, why does it bother you? Every single one seems to trigger a burr in your hide.
Guy,
I don’t think it was a “meaningless gesture” for the SBC to denounce Alt-right in America. However, I do think it would have made the SBC “meaningless” in the eyes of many onlookers had we not.
The SBC likes to pat itself on the back sometimes and this is one of those occasions. It’s awkward but it happens.
km: I ask you the same question as I did Les and Arthur. If it does nothing, and if we are just “patting ourselves on the back”, why does it bother you so much?
Arthur: If that is what you think, then it shouldn’t bother you at all that if it is passed. Unanimously. After all if it doesn’t accomplish anything, no reason to object, right?
Would it not be great if the resolutions committee could get with Dwight and work out a few solutions to the language the committee found to be problematic and present something that could garner the support of messengers while satisfying the concerns raised in committee?
Hang in there Dwight and Dave. This needs to be passed and it can only be done by action from the floor. I am glad Steve Gaines seems to be listening to the will of the messengers. Dwight, if you remember, I said the resolution would not make it out of committee. They did not want to do anything that might be interpreted negative toward President Trump. Several of his advisors such as Steve Bannon have been the darlings of the alt-right.
“In explaining why the committee did not report out McKissic’s resolution, Duke told reporters afterward the panel spent a number of hours considering the proposal ‘before we finally said we just didn’t see a way that we could speak to the multiple issues that were raised in that resolution in a way that we felt would be constructive.’ Duke said the committee agreed with the resolution’s point on racism, but thought it and other ‘elements [in the proposal] already had been addressed recently’ in Southern Baptist life. The committee also chose not to act on resolutions submitted regarding Genesis, pro-life… Read more »
I think a resolution regarding the so called “Alt – Right” would only be meaningful if people actually share a common understanding — or any understanding — of what the “Alt – Right” is. If the resolution defines what is “Alt – Right” is and then goes on to denounce it then the resolution would have meaning. To me the term “Alt – Right” is fuzzy. I think it has something to do with limiting immigration and shutting down illegal boarder crossings. If so, then why not report out a resolution about immigration and then argue it on its merits.… Read more »
Roger: That is not even close to what the alternate right is. I think it has been explained on this forum pretty well but it’s hard for me to believe that you all are so cut off from the world that you haven’t heard an accurate view of the alternate right. I would think one would have to live under a rock to not know who they are.
I apologize to raising the issue of the meaning of “Alt – right”. I guess I’m the only guy in any of the 50 states that does not know what the “Alt Right” is. My ignorance does not in anyway impinge on the resolution since I’m not in Phoenix. So I’m obviously not voting on the resolution — one way or the other. From what I’m gleaning Alt-Right is secret code for “white supremacy”. Why not come out and just use commonly understood lingo? Not only have I not heard an “accurate” view of “Alt – Right” I’d never even… Read more »
Roger: That is what they call themselves. And this is why it’s so important to listen and not try to say that such things don’t exist. I am not saying you have done this, but it has been done on every discussion or any resolution we have had on racism.
This resolution is simply doing what 1 John 1:9 commands all believers to do always be doing. Now instead of just one single believer a whole community of believers (SBC) is doing it, confessing their wrong.
With God, when His people own up to wrong they can start moving on to greater works. Good for SBC this day
Since coming to Princeton after graduating from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in 2014, I have tried to distance myself from anything to do with the Southern Baptist Convention. However, I believe Pastor McKissic should be commended for his courageous stand against racism in the SBC. However, lost in this discussion of the Alt-Right and the SBC is the more insidious issue of Robert Jeffress and Jerry Falwell Dr. and other Southern Baptist leaders’ unswerving loyalty to Donald Trump. Racism could be an underlying issue why so many members of the SBC voted for Trump. You guys focused on the bogyman… Read more »
Lee, My husband voted for President Trump as he is a conservative. I voted for Hillary “Clinton as I am more of a Democrat. My husband is conservative but not a racist. He would have voted for any Republican over H. Clinton and I would have voted for Bernie Sanders. Are you saying the SBC should have issued a resolution about voting for Trump is racist, betrayal of Christian values or morally wrong. To me this is what happens when earthly politics are intertwined with the Gospel message. The Moral Majority era was not good. Can a Pastor separate his… Read more »
Lee, I attended a year and a half of Business school after graduating from high school in the late 70’s. Maybe, despite all of your education, you failed to notice that the SBC isn’t addressing politics but sin and sinful actions. Now i didn’t vote for Trump or Hillary because I thought that neither had earned my vote. But supporting a sitting president isn’t insidious, nor is having loyalty to a sitting president. The fact that you used the words “could be” shows that you actually don’t know and are just throwing mud. Have you polled the SBC membership to… Read more »
The alt-right is all-wrong.
Can anyone names some names and examples of this so called “alt-right”? The far left media uses that term to describe conservatives in general. What was meant by it at the convention?
Mark, I think this portion of the resolution is the most helpful in describing exactly what the alt-right movement is without having to get into some particular nuance of what the individuals involved therein believe or who they are: “WHEREAS, Racism and white supremacy are, sadly, not extinct but present all over the world in various white supremacist movements, sometimes known as “white nationalism” or “alt-right”; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED, That the messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention, meeting in Phoenix, Arizona, June 13–14, 2017, decry every form of racism, including alt-right white supremacy, as antithetical to the Gospel… Read more »
Mark Mitchell: If you would have been at the Convention, you would know exactly who the Alt-right is as they were outside the Convention hall passing out their literature on why we should hate blacks. They were on Twitter calling Southern Baptist heroes for not presenting and passing Resolution 10 Tuesday night. It would have answered your question and some. After the passing of the resolution overwhelmingly the Alt-Right were on Twitter condemning and had some of the worst racist comments imaginable. Believe me, your question would have been more than answered. They are a racist group and they are… Read more »
are, not is.
Lee, Debbie appears to be the most open minded non racist person who comments on issues. She is most mindful and respectful of all people of all backgrounds. I too did not know the word black is now unacceptable and why and when did that happen? Also there is context and meaning , Debbie would not use it if it offended anyone
Mark, to answer you question I’d suggest reading this page, especially the section on history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right