William Thornton is the SBC Plodder.
I had a guy in one of my churches who was a sausage maker and I made a pastoral visit to him while he was hard at work. There they sat, pans and pans of blood, guts, and porcine body parts I had never seen and didn’t recognize. I don’t recall eating his sausage. I’ll have the sausage in the nice, tidy package, thank you.
Our SBC pastor/staff search process is like making sausage. It’s often ugly, some would say inherently ugly. While I could live without eating my member’s sausage, most pastors and staff cannot stay in the pastoral ministry without participating in a pastor search process that involves a group of people from a church looking for a pastor.
I will admit that my experience is more limited here than many of my colleagues. I served only three churches as pastor and those for longer than normal tenure, an average of about ten years each. Nonetheless, I offer an irreverent look at our process with the understanding that some of my brethren may supplement or correct my conclusions and recommendations.
Hey Einstein, you have to deal with the process we have, not the one you wish we had.
Most of the roughly 47,000 SBC churches are single staff with attendance averaging around 100 in worship each Lord’s Day. This means that most who pastor or aspire to pastor these churches will spend their career in average-sized, single staff churches, ones where they relate personally to every member. Those churches will likely have traditions and processes that preceded the pastor and that will succeed him as well and the pastor search system that they use is the most important of these.
Seems that many of my colleagues think that a church establishing a committee to interview pastor candidates and bring one to the church for a vote is not just unwieldy and messy but also unbiblical.
I’ll agree with two-thirds of that but would argue that there is no “biblical” search process specified in Scripture.
I met with a search committee once and was informed that they had decided to require a 90% affirmative vote on a pastor candidate. Then one guy on the committee said that they decided to add one additional percent for God the Father, one for God the Son, and one for God the Holy Spirit, making a total of 93% required to call a pastor. I appreciated the affirmation of the Trinity but thought this line of reasoning was bizarre and wondered what other odd stuff I would find. If I had gone for a vote at the church, three or four votes could have deep-sixed my chances and undone all the committee’s work.
It doesn’t matter if you think churches have ecclesiology all wrong. It doesn’t matter if you think the process is unbiblical. You could approach every search committee by informing them that they are unbiblical and see how far that gets you. You might also be prepared to never land a pastor position and to make plans to do your preaching, gratis, on any street corner to random pedestrians.
I feel your pain about the process but suggest that you spend all the time you wish deploring it but then spend double, triple the time acquiring the knowledge and skills to help you navigate the process we have. The former will profit you little; the latter will prove invaluable.
If you’re desperate, you’re toast.
You say you have bills, student loans, car payments, and a family and desperately need to land a church staff position? Why not just announce to a church committee that you’ve got to get some paychecks coming, and soon, so could they step on it and take your word for it that you would be a super pastor?
Money screws up everything in church life but probably does more harm to pastors or prospective pastors who have put themselves in a position ofhaving to move, having to get a church, having to get on someone’s payroll. Desperate people think they hear God’s voice where there is silence and make terrible decisions. When you are desperate in this way, it is understandable that you drop kick reason, prayer, wisdom and discernment into the stratosphere and hunger and thirst after anything that will remedy your present situation.
What if you had a life skill, trade, or vocation that gave you the option of having some income independent of church income? Your congregation can fire you any time they wish. Most will be gracious, patient, kind, and considerate of your financial needs and that of your family but some will sadistically fire you regardless of the consequences to you or your family. It is a very uncomfortable position in which to be where your income as a pastor is all that stands between you and abject poverty.
You aren’t helpless. There are more alternative income streams available to ministers now than ever. Some write, some easily find substitute teaching jobs, some have online businesses, some take second jobs. If you are in a desperate situation, have a plan that involves working for a living until the Lord opens the right doors.
Of course, some of the brethren have a plan that consists entirely of asking other people to give them money and some are quite successful at this. I’d bet buckets of fried chicken that any SBC minister who has been in vocational ministry for any length of time could name several colleagues who are known to fish for money from family and friends. I suggest that it is more honorable to earn your own way and not beg. Just because you are ordained it doesn’t mean that others are obligated to pay your bills. Put the financial fishing tackle away and let God handle it. You go to work.
You’re not Miss America, so don’t enter any beauty contests
It’s not surprising that some of the thousands of SBC churches have a search process that involves a parade of preachers and the church picking the one they like the best. I don’t run into this so much these days as I did earlier but if you find that a church follows such a practice, be kind but say, “No, thanks.” You might win the contest but lose in the long run.
You don’t have the ‘right stuff’ so don’t act like a fighter ace.
The church that has contacted you has known problems. They’ve disclosed some of them and you’ve researched it enough to recognize that they have some hisory of being hard on a pastor and some difficult people; however, you, Red Baron, think that unlike previous pastors, you have the right stuff to handle all that and lead the church to glorious harmony and new heights. You think you are bulletproof. You, alone among the brethren, have just the right combination of irresistible personal charisma, rare pastoral skills, and overwhelming pulpit presence to be highly successful in this church.
Think again, my ministerial megalomaniacal friend. You are more likely to crash and burn. God will be with you but problem churches have ruined many a minister who ignored the signs, signals, and warnings.
Sure, some pastor is God’s man for such a task but think long and hard, pray longer and harder, before you drag your wife and kids into such a situation. The best person for one problem church I knew about was a semi-retired, crusty, curmudgeonly pastor who had grown kids and a wife that didn’t get too involved in church business. He carried around a letter of resignation in his pocket and was known to pull it out and wave it around when presented with some church nonsense. Come to think of it, I fit the profile these days – bah, humbug.
Keep pulpit committees out of your worship service.
The crack cocaine of the Southern Baptist ministry is having another church who finds you desirable, whose job is to convince you how great a pastor you would be in their church, what a good fit you would be, how riveting and compelling your sermons are…and how much more money you would make. That siren song is often represented by the search committee who shows up in your church and sits about two-thirds of the way back.
There they sit.You spot them. Synapses fire. Dopamine flows. You’re high, brother.
It is probably better for all of those involved if the old committee visit system was retired. Maybe you could put up a sign, “No soliciting” or “Pastor Search Committees Go Away,” on your sanctuary front door. Maybe not. Even if you are a pastor and are open to a church change, you can request churches not just show up unless you are very serious and pretty far along. While it is important to see and hear a prospective pastor in the environment of his normal Sunday worship service, I hear you can put your sermons online these days for anyone to listen, huh? It’s simple to put video online and make that accessible as well.
If you have a few committees show up at your place your church thinks you are unhappy, they conclude that you have already checked out or are done with them. Maybe you are but you don’t have to disrespect the only church God has given you to pastor. It’s a delicate matter but some degree of openness with church leaders about a possible change is probably appropriate in most situations.
I’m a Georgia native and was serving in South Carolina a few years back. I had a wonderful, leather-lunged church member who was attuned to committees showing up to hear me preach. Once a committee, one that eventually called me, was present. True to form, they sat about two-thirds of the way back. Sure, everyone knew who they were and I had informed a few church leaders that they would be present, just not Deacon Bombast.
After the service, when about half of the congregation was still milling around the sanctuary he hollered, “Preacher! They are from Georgia, huh?”
I had to just laugh. It was just his personality. “Yeah, Claude. Georgia.”
I guess he could have said, “Go Dawgs!” but that would have stirred up the Clemson and Carolina people.
There’s no reason today for pulpit committees to just show up and probably no compelling reason for a formal committee visit to your worship service. Maybe you could provide all the committee needs and not go through this…unless you need to feed your addiction.
“Keep pulpit committees out of your worship service.”
No kidding. I’d like to put up an “Everyone welcome, except pastor search committees” sign. I’m in a rural community that values longevity–the credibility that an urban or suburban pastor builds in a month takes six months out here.
And that odd visitor group that drops in just derails that effort. Even if I am able to defuse it, people are reminded that pastors leave, just like Bro. So-and-So who left 20 years ago, and it wasn’t the same afterwards.
(no, I am not making that up. I may be wrong on the six months thing, but I know it takes time.)
Of course, I should point out that anyone who asks, I typically refer to the web where they can watch me preach.
Then they never call again. So, it’s not like it’s often there’s a committee around.
You could point them to your interactions on SBCVoices instead?
I want to be left alone, not excommunicated.
William,
Good thoughts.
Young preachers would be wise to pay attention.
David R. Brumbelow
At my graduation party, one of my seminary friends met some of the members of a church I was serving as interim pastor including a couple members of their pastor search team. In the process, they asked him if he was available for supply and said they needed someone for a particular date. My friend said he could come a different Sunday, but was unavailable on that date because he had committed to leading worship (by which he meant leading the singing) that week. Anyway, when the Sunday rolled around for him to lead, 3 senior adult men in suits accompanied by a woman came in and found seats in the back of our church. Everyone in the church knew immediately it was a search committee and were there to steal our pastor. Rumors immediately spread throughout the congregation. The pastor was oblivious because he, of course, was not looking for a church. Several members were noticably rude to them, not helping them find a seat, not willing to move their things, one of the deacons went up to them and told them point blank, “you can’t have our pastor.” Even my friend was a bit angry that the pastor might be leaving and that he had not told anyone. No one could concentrate during the service or pay attention to the sermon. Immediately after the invitation, the deacons swarmed our pastor. The search committee swarmed my friend. Only then did everyone realize that the search team was really there not for the pastor but for my friend. Everyone was confused. The search team thought (a) that my friend was preaching and (b) that he was willing to be considered as pastor of Irvington. My friend thought that he was only going to the other church to supply and that the team was there for our pastor. The church thought that our pastor was looking to leave us and they weren’t going to let him go without a fight. The pastor had recognized them as a search team but had no idea why they would be coming to hear him because he had absolutely no interest in leaving our church. Confusion all around. 🙂 My friend went to preach at the other church the next week, keeping an open mind about possibly going there to pastor. The rumor mill from switched from our pastor to him. And the three of… Read more »
…sausage-making.
I really have never thought that pastor search committees visiting the church is a good idea for a number of reasons. First, everyone and I mean everyone can spot them and because of this no one would actually act normal which defeats the purpose of the committee being there. Second, it causes undue stress on the current congregation. Third, it’s really just tacky.
Sorry about that last sentence I have a lot of women in my life, a wife and 3 daughters, so the word tacky is a daily term used describe my actions and attitudes.
You don’t have to have a pulpit committee stay out of your worship, but just ask them please not to sit together on the back row and not to tell people they are all together.
Dave, I have never understood why they always sit together.
They should also snoop first and find out the typical dress for your church.
The suits are typically a dead giveaway, although I once settled a concerned church member by hinting that the FBI might be looking into a few things about me…
(just kidding. But I thought about it.)
I’d guess that churches are more comfortable with all these roaming pulpit committees than pastors. My experience over the last 15-20 years or so is that a committee is less likely to show up unannounced than in earlier years. When they make contact, you can request that they not come until a later stage. But then if you’re desperate you probably are saying ‘Come one, come all!
About a month in to my first pastorate, I had a group of friends from the church I had previously served as an associate come to say hello and visit. When they came in, they jokingly told the folks they were a search committee come to hear me preach. For about 10 minutes I was told their was absolute panic as their search that ended with me lasted 2 1/2 years. When I came out from a Sunday school class I was teaching I spotted them and went right up to them and started hugging them, and the new church was buzzing. Before I preached I introduced them and they all started to cackle, thankfully, the new church did as well 🙂
I’ve pastored ten churches and each time the vote was 100%. I told the search committee if the vote wasn’t 100% I didn’t want to pastor the church. I told one search committee that we needed to rush this thing along because I had some folks to visit.
How come I am so bold? I have always enjoyed the freedom I have with being a bi-vocational pastor. If the search committee didn’t answer my questions to suit me, I didn’t have to accept the church.
I pastored because that is what God called me to do, where he leads me I will follow, whether it was a good position or a bad one, I went.
One of the more appealing things about bivo ministry, the absence of one’s entire income depending on it.
Churches are quirky about votes. Some always 100%, some never, some routinely ‘make it’ 100% after a divided vote.
I remember the first time I saw a church vote to make a call “unanimous.”
That was a disaster. How can you vote 75-25 for something, then vote with a simple majority that you are “unanimous”?
Shenanigans like that do heavy damage to our credibility. Don’t do it. Find out the vote, and report it as it is. If you absolutely must have 100%, then go for it. I’d like better than a simple majority, but I don’t think I’d expect unanimous. There’s too often other factors involved in the “democratic” processes of Baptist churches. Somebody’s liable to vote “no” because they don’t like a committee member…
I’ve only been at this a few years, but the longer I go the more I think bi-vocational and owning or renting your own home is the way to go. Sometimes it is hard not to let job security become a greater motivation than faithfulness to God when your entire living and the place you live are tied to the church.
Jon
You make a valid point. Needing an income is a poor reason to stay with a church. There is another side to that coin however. If one is not dependent upon the church income there is temptation to jump ship simply because one got a little discouraged or was have a pity party.
D.L.
I have considered that potential problem, but at least for my own personality, being bi-vocational is better, and I think in any situation having a home that is not tied to the church is better.
Jon
I think you hit the relevant note with the words “my own personality”. It is definitely a personal choice from one’ s own distinctive point of view. I would think it has to do with ones calling. For me BiVo is not desirable as I understand what God has for me. But again one is not right and the other wrong. The question is;”what does God have for YOU?”
Re. housing, I am where you are. I want my own house.
I’d have to admit, brethren, that the thought that I had to navigate the system we have with committees, interviews, visits and all that again depresses me. But it is the system we have and I don’t know any alternative…unless I was a planter or a mega pastor, the former free because he has to generate (in a sense) the church and the latter is merely crowned king of a new megachurch.
I was voted into my current church by a 79% affirmative vote…and its been a great place to serve for the last 7 years… 🙂
Blessed to not be part of that circus. Much of what was described is not found in the scriptures. I see lots of issues in the early churches, but search committees, and much of the other stuff mentioned is absent. It kind of makes you wonder …. Why?
Where are the resources to help churches find bivo pastors in the SBC? They’re kind of a joke, unless I’ve missed something. I emailed our state bivo coordinator for help finding a pastor, and he said he’d pray for us.
Part of my point. Placement is a sensitive matter. I assume that states have an online resume service that ihas a bi-vo option and a church can get contact info for all appropriate ministers who are active on the list. DOMs and other denominational folks may not want to be bothered with placement, feel hesitant to recommend any specific individuals, etc. if your state has such a resume service and the bi-vo guy didn’t direct you to that, then he erred.
Bill, why look to the SBC or State agencies…. can’t churches look into their own congregations? What is the magic around always seeking outside the church to bring someone back into the church. Seems like the long way around the mountain to me.
My last church had half a dozen men who were called into the ministry. None would wish to return and pastor their home congregation.
I’m all for this but it’s not a significant part of this search business. Perhaps it could or should be, but it’s not.
I’m not quite sure what you mean by “none would wish to return”…where did they go?
They served other churches, the normal practice.
The head pastor from within the church is a relic of the past, seems to me. At any rate, such is highly unusual today, sub-head pastors, not so unusual.
I don’t object. It’s just not significant enough to be part of the conversation.
Ok.. thanks William. Just trying to get some context to “where they went”. I originally though they aspired within the local body, …so I was curious why they had left. Now I understand better….thx!
I’ll make this observation:
I like the idea of raising up leaders internally, and seeing the church develop its own pastors. And yet…
I know we have long, long memories as people. Personally speaking, I know that it’s also very hard to recognize that people grow up, gain in wisdom, and mature past their mistakes. I doubt, for example, that I could adequately pastor the church I went to in high school. Too many people there would remember the immature fool I was then, and would automatically class any mistake made as pastor as revealing I haven’t changed in any of the character flaws of the time.
(I have all new character flaws, after all.)
So, I can see it as a great *idea*, and think it has merit to consider, but practically speaking I think it’s a non-starter in many congregations. Add in that our process typically involves looking for someone who is already “successful” to bring to a church, and not anyone without a track record of statistics, and you really won’t see much home-growing of leadership in our traditional-mindset churches.
That is too bad, and actually backwards from what the Apostle Paul prescribes to Timothy, Titus, and those early churches. I’m not so sure that our culture has improved upon the process laid out by Paul in such a way that would merit change to his instruction. I don’t think it was just a recommendation to the churches, but our current culture seems to treat it that way.
Frankly, the greater testimony to Christ’s work in your life for the church, Doug, is that God has changed the aforementioned “rascal” into something new. It is the consistent, mature, life devoted to Christ, currently portrayed, that qualifies you to aspire and serve the body now. Your current life is your qualification.
One of the largest issues with the Single Pastor plucked out of another congregation is that the current congregation doesn’t know the guy. Two sermons and a resume is little, or no qualification to Pastor,….anyone can come up with that combination and make a good splash.
I’ve hesitated to respond, but here goes. I know that Southern Baptist doctrine says elders=pastors, and although I agree that there is a large overlap, I don’t think the two terms are necessarily synonymous. I see elder as a position and pastor as a spiritual gift. I am an elder in my church. I am as pastoral as I can be, just as any Christian can be pastoral. I and two deacons are on a preaching rotation while we are without a pastor. I’m a decent preacher. But I don’t consider myself a pastor. Yes, I realize I may be in doctrinal hot water here, but that’s how I feel. I do my best. I see my role as providing encouragement and accountability to the pastor, and of course some continuity while we are without a pastor, but not as pastor myself. I just don’t feel called to it. I am happy to preach, and just as happy not to. You may say then that I shouldn’t be an elder and perhaps you’re right. I’ve often felt that way myself. But in a tiny church, far below the SBC average, I have felt that I need to be in this position. But I want to work with someone who is called to preach, who cannot live without it. That isn’t me, and as far as I know, no one else in our congregation.
Bill Mac, thank you for this comment. It is refreshing to see men step up to do things that seem uncomfortable, or out of the norm. One of the biggest fallacies about preaching, teaching, pastoring, etc. is one thing that you said…”But I want to work with someone who is called to preach, who cannot live without it.” I’ve heard that line used over and over again, and its just not a wise phrase relative to our responsibility in the body of Christ. Aspiring to lead, pastor, or doing the work of preaching and teaching, should not be measured by something you can or cannot live without. That is simply a straw man argument for a lot of Pastors. It is not a good litmus test,…because emotions are not what sets the course for doing the work of ministry.
Pastoring as an Elder, Leading, Preaching, and Teaching is hard work….and good work, whether you earn a wage from the body, or from other work in the community. Churches need men that aspire, and recognize how hard work gets done in the church. Aspiring is more about training up men over time,…not some feeling in the moment. We need men that aspire with the Long View.
“don’t enter any beauty contests”
I was once called by a deacon/chairman of a search committee to provide a reference for a young pastoral candidate. I knew the young man well – he was passionate for Christ, with an evangelistic heart and a love for the Church. But, he had a “problem” … his left eye moved uncontrollably, a handicap since birth. The deacon advised me that the young man had preached a great sermon in his “trial” at their church. The committee was impressed with his handling of the Scripture and his boldness in the pulpit. I confirmed that he was indeed a preacher, with excellent character before man and God. “But” the deacon said “he has that eye.” I wasn’t sure how he wanted me to reply, so I preached him a sermon about not looking on the outward appearance. Search committees are OK I guess, but they should at least populate them with spiritual folks, who look beyond the physical.
Sad story that leaves us shaking our head #38:
I know of a church that was trying to pick between 2 Youth Pastors…the Search Committee had narrowed it down to these 2….and, they finally decided to pick the one over the other based on……are you ready to hear this? Because, the one they picked’s wife was “just more cool” than the other one!!!!
Good grief…smh
David
volfan….cool is “in” baby!
Cool.
David 🙂
Well, I am pleased to see that the Driscoll hair-do has fallen out of favor. Now, I don’t look at the outward appearance you know … but I could never understand that spiky thing.
Oh, its quite simple…just a little hair gel or hair wax, or egg whites if you’re old school…not difficult at all! 🙂
William, excellent honest post. I really appreciate it and got a lot out of it!