Dear SBC President Dr. Steve Gaines,
We want to begin by saying thank you. We had a great convention in Phoenix, and we believe that is due in part to your leadership. You set the tone for the convention with your emphasis on prayer. You also exhibited wise pastoral leadership from the podium. We realize that the resolution condemning alt-right white supremacy would not have happened without your support. So thank you.
We are also excited about the emphasis of this next year on evangelism. We share your concerns regarding our declining baptism numbers. Southern Baptists are a people who love God. It’s time we demonstrate that through prayer and evangelism. As you have said, “If you love someone, you talk to them and you talk about them.”
In light of this need to focus on evangelism, we are hopeful that the evangelism taskforce you appointed at the convention will bring forward helpful ideas about how we can more effectively reach our nation and our neighbors with the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. We believe that you have chosen an excellent group of men who will serve our convention well this next year as you brainstorm together about evangelism. Each person on the taskforce brings to it a wealth of knowledge and experience.
We did, however, notice that only two of the people chosen to serve on this taskforce are non-Anglo. This is at a time when approximately 20% of SBC churches are majority non-Anglo and 50% of NAMB church plants are ethnic minorities. The 2015 Executive Committee report on the SBC’s progress on racial reconciliation noted the great strides that have been made, but it also called on our leaders to make an even more concerted effort to include more minorities on future convention boards and committees. This kind of broad representation is especially needed with regard to evangelism. As the complexion of America continues to darken, we must increase our effectiveness at reaching people who look different than we do.
There are other voices we feel were left out as well. The announced taskforce does not include any women. It also does not include any smaller church pastors or laypeople who are not denominational employees. We believe that Southern Baptists are at our best when we hear from a diversity of people who represent the diversity of the SBC.
With this in mind, we ask that you would broaden representation on the newly created taskforce by adding members from these other viewpoints. We commit ourselves to pray for you in this endeavor and for the work of the taskforce as it moves forward. Again, we are thankful for your leadership and trust that God will guide you in this matter.
Respectfully,
Voices for a New Baptist Future
Totally agree…and totally expect no action to be taken even though you asked very nicely.
When the fiasco over the anti “alt-right” resolution spilled over into the secular media, I anticipated that we were only seeing the beginning of the assault on the SBC. Clearly I was correct. If you think the Gospel is only effective when the person sharing the Gospel with you also looks like you, you don’t understand the Gospel and you deny it’s power. We ought to be a lot more concerned with the Gospel getting to those in need rather than counting noses or holding up a skin pigment chart next to potential missionaries to see if they “look like… Read more »
“If you think the Gospel is only effective when the person sharing the Gospel with you also looks like you, you don’t understand the Gospel and you deny it’s power.”
Who said that? What are you talking about? Basically nothing that you said in your comment is true or accurate or describes the intentions of anyone here.
“Holding up a skin pigment chart” next to missionaries?
This is sad.
That’s not the point… As a cross-cultural missionary, I am absolutely FLOORED at the lack of understanding that while the gospel message is the same, it is heard differently and presented in different ways for each people group, addressing the heart issues in their culture. Where are the Asians? Where are the Muslim-background-believers? Only two non-anglo men? And what about addressing needs that women have in sharing with women? I’m sorry, but I don’t believe a group of men will have the understanding to determine how women can better reach out in personal witnessing to their friends and families… In… Read more »
I am really struggling to know how God wants us to think of race when it comes to making appointments, nominations, presence… with the SBC leadership. Is it something we make more of than God does?
Does God in His elective power do so with concern to the ethnic makeup of His most favorite creation? I don’t think so. If He did then North America would only see 7.6% of those elect.
I pray we can come to the point where we don’t see color of skin. May it begin in my generation.
Jon, many of us have considered (and even believed at an earlier time) that the ideal is to be “colorblind” like you’ve described here. But after considering that idea, we’ve rejected it as a well-meaning but misguided approach to racial reconciliation. As Derwin Grey said in the 2016 pastors’ conference: we shouldn’t strive to be color blind but color blessed. More here from Todd Benkert, from 2012: https://sbcvoices.com/a-color-blind-denomination/ In short, “colorblindness” leads us to things like this task force, where most the participants are white, most of us never think another thing about it, and our minority brothers and sisters… Read more »
“Jon, many of us have considered (and even believed at an earlier time) that the ideal is to be “colorblind” like you’ve described here. But after considering that idea, we’ve rejected it as a well-meaning but misguided approach to racial reconciliation.” Brent, you do realize my friend that you and your group “considering and rejecting” something is not necessarily the be all and end all? I truly am not being a jerk here – but your post comes across as having thought yourself and your cohorts to have arrived at the full stature of the measure of Christ and hoping… Read more »
Dave, I had no part in the OP but think a little pressure on leaders is healthy. I see no need for a calculator every time a BR committee is formed and maybe Gaines’ idea of a gathering of the best mega guys and seminary experts is the best route on this. The VFNBF sees a lack of divert. I see the same top-down stuff we’ve always had. If we want to generate some new thinking from the grassroots on the SBC’s future maybe we ought to put Dave Miller in charge. I’d bet I could write the evang TF… Read more »
William,
I agree with and have no issue with the open letter.
I’m addressing specific comments made above about another peice of the puzzle so to speak that was brought into the discussion.
“I’d bet I could write the evang TF report today and get 80% of it right.”
Probably could…lol!
“think a little pressure on leaders is healthy. ”
Me too. I think Gaines put together a task force of friends and colleagues and needed to be nudged a little to think outside his box.
Honestly, pastors and spiritual leaders need healthy and constructive nudging from time to time – whether we’re Prez of the SBC or pastor of FBC middle of nowhereville. It’s a good thing.
Brent, I see the idea of being colored blessed… not bad but not best. I would think that most, if not all people of color would desire to have and hope to have a place in the SBC leadership because of what they offer, not because of their color. Scripture clearly speaks of man’s giftedness (from God of course) and we are to use our giftedness to further His kingdom. Never, as far as I can discover has God put a man in a position of leadership because of his color. Some might want to make the case of God… Read more »
From the BP story on it, cursory examination: 9 seminary people, 1 state convention exec, 7 megachurch, 1 near megachurch. No females.
Everyone is for prayer and evangelism, Gaines’ emphases. I’m sure the 18 members will talk to some women, minorities, and some of the 45k non-mega pastors and craft a very nice top-down evangelism plan for us all…complete with statistics, charts, findings, values, and action plans.
The Proportional Composition of a Representative Ten Person Southern Baptist Convention Leadership Group: 1. GENDER Five Men Five Women 2. ETHNICITY Two Ethnic Minorities Eight Caucasians 3. CHURCH SIZE Four Megachurch Members (1000+) Two Larger Size Church Members (500-1000) Two Average Size Church Members (300-500) Two Smaller Size Church Members (0-300) 4. THEOLOGICAL WING Two Calvinists or Amyraldists Eight Traditionalists or Arminians 5. CLERGY-LAITY STATUS Six Ministers Four Laypersons 6. AGE Two 30-40 Two 40-50 Two 50-60 Two 60-70 Two 70+ Many people say this cannot be done. I believe it can. If we are going to seek balance on… Read more »
You trivialize the matter. Why not provide a defense of the composition?
He has allowed the calvinism issue to define what being a Southern Baptist is and is not
C’mon, Rick.
Please, just once, deal with the issue, instead of trying to troll it toward your anti-Calvinist crusade. You really need to get over your obsession.
Please?
I agree
Why only four laypersons, Rick?
William, How am I trivializing anything? I am not being facetious here. If you are reading my remarks as satire or sarcasm, they are not. You ask, “Why not defend the composition of the committee?” But why is that my responsibility? I may have nothing but the deepest respect for Dr. Gaines, who nominated this committee, and for Dr. Patterson, who will chair the committee, but I nevertheless have the personal conviction that our leadership groups in SBC life should look like our convention, and this one does not. That is why I shared my ideal composition, *even though* no… Read more »
Rick, Out of curiosity where do you get your 80/20 split (or as I have seen you indicate at other times 85/15)? Is this a survey of pastors or laypeople? Also, for someone who has a great deal of people on their site railing against Calvinists because they believe they deny the Priesthood of Believers, you sure do advocate a lot for a clergy based committee system. Further, why not have other factors like Dispensational vs. Premill vs. Amill; Comp vs. Egal; etc? I get that you feel that Traditionalists are presently underrepresented in leadership positions, but isn’t that just… Read more »
Doug, To satisfy your curiosity… 1. The 80/20 split over race is from the statistic cited in the original post. I believe NAMB is the source. The 80/20 split over Extensivism – Calvinism in the SBC (Extensivism is Ronnie Rogers’ term for *all* positions other than Calvinism—Arminianism, Traditionalism, etc.) is from two separate LifeWay polls—one about five years ago and one about ten years ago. Perhaps it is time to do another. The Pastor part of the poll was clearly more Calvinistic, especially younger Pastors. The laity of our convention are not nearly as Calvinistic. Some put the figure at… Read more »
How would you address the situation of the book mailing? In one sense Dwight McKissick and Rick are doing the same thing, advocating for parity in SBC jobs and appointments, out of differing motives and histories of course. Maybe both have some indirect impact on trustees who hire leaders and elected and individuals and committees who nominate trustees and other positions. One thing is dead certain, there will be no motion passed for parity, perhaps a resolution. When the next entity CEO slot comes open trustee boards, mostly traditionalists, will make these decisions. How has it happened that mostly Trad… Read more »
I’d be glad to give Traditionalists a proportional representation on all boards, agencies and task forces. There are 15 or 16 million SBs, right?
Around a thousand have signed your document.
I think you should have full proportional representation.
Dave
Good point:
“I think you should have full proportional representation.”
1000/15000000 =1/15000
Which is 1 committee or board member for every 15000 board and committee positions.
Yeah for equal proportionalism!
Rick –
So you want equal representation of some, not all and you get to define who fits the some. It seems that lay persons are either not allowed… not qualified… to great a number which in turn means more Trads get pushed out of the “Rick Equation”. Interesting.
Your colors are showing.
Yep. The “trad” statement signatory list is an objective standard by which to assign proportional representation….so let’s use it. Ricks 80/20 is simply his subjective conjecture — so it’s out. Let us once and for all put this issue to bed and accept Ricks quota demand! 1 “trad” committee/board member per 15,000 SBC committee/board positions! — Although, in” fairness” (Rick calls that you know) since there are some of the 1100 or so signatories of the Trad statement are not Southern Baptists so I’m assuming they would be discounted from the total number before assigning representation. So it representation might… Read more »
Of course since Gaines is President – that fulfills the 1/15,000 quota… So all other traditionalist who are serving on committees/boards should resign in a show of good faith… As we embrace this new quota.
Or in lieu of that Dr. Gaines could resign – and one of the other traditionalist who is currently serving someplace can remain and all of the others would need to resign.
Of course I am playing around… But hopefully this humorous use of absurdity will continue to demonstrate the unworkable absurdity of Rick’s “proportional representation quota”.
Rick, I assume the comment directed to Doug is in fact directed to me. Very common to transpose my last name for my first for some reason. It may happen to you as well since your last name can also be a first name. In reference to 1, I was referring to your Calvinist – Extensivist stat. Honestly, if it is the poll I found based on your information I am not sure that there is much clarity to be had with it. 30% said their church was Reformed or Calvinist (Strongly and somewhat agree), 30% said their church was… Read more »
I believe more females and more non Anglos being appointed/elected would be healthy for Southern Baptists. It would show that we are in touch with reality. We have plenty of gifted and equipped ladies and minorities in the body of Christ. This kind of change will be good and show discerning sensitivities to those who feel uncared for. To God be the glory.
Agree man
Including minorities and laypeople and small church pastors is NOT some kind of PC thing. It is a recognition that the megachurch culture is not going to appeal to everyone, nor is that the solution for everyone. We respect the megas and appreciate them, but the solution to our problems is NOT to all become clones of Johnny Hunt, Ronnie Floyd, et al. God has gifted them in ways he hasn’t gifted us. If we want to solve the SBC’s problems then it might help to hear from some people who are in the churches that represent over 95% of… Read more »
//It is a problem in the SBC that we think that the only people with something to offer are megas and professors.// Dave Miller, that would make a great quote to get some feedback on. But I will leave that to others… The very fact that we did not think about deliberately creating a more inclusive task force is a recognition of the nearsightedness of the SBC that is not serving us well. Every person appointed is a great person with much to offer. But there are others less known and more diverse in age, church size and ethnicity equally… Read more »
I’m having trouble knowing what to make of you, Mr. Calkins!
Who is “Voices for a New Baptist Future”?
As I recall, the committee does not include any Vocational Evangelists.
An Evangelist would also be a good inclusion to this Evangelism Taskforce.
But, every committee does not have to be perfectly diverse.
David R. Brumbelow
You can see the original list here: https://sbcvoices.com/voices-for-a-new-baptist-future-a-group-proposal/
David, you’re right that every committee doesn’t have to be perfectly diverse. Two caveats: (1) the more prominent the committee, the more important it is that diversity be considered and (2) the fact that committees are consistently under-diverse and rarely (never?) over-diverse illustrates that we aren’t a in place where we can ignore this and act like “well, some will be more than others and it will all even out in the end…”
David, no one here (except for Rick in his obsessive anti-Calvinism) is arguing for any kind of quota or obsessive balance.
But when the SBC forms a task force and there is not a single pastor from a church of less than 2000, when those churches make up 99% of our convention, when we almost completely ignore minorities, it shows the same kind of insensitivity to key issues that got us into trouble with the McKissic resolution.
Either we intend to include minorities or we don’t.
David B,
“But, every committee does not have to be perfectly diverse.”
Why not? It’s that kind of thinking that leaves many in our convention marginalized.
Dwight, I think it is unrealistic to expect every committee to be perfectly diverse because it trivializes the reasons for the committee to exist. You make the qualifying factor to serve on a committee race rather than relevant experience. I believe we need to have more diversity to more accurately represent views held within the SBC, but it will never truly be perfect. For instance, we would probably need to have most committees be 50-60% women and that may not be feasible due to relevant experience requirements. Race is not the only factor necessary to have diversity. Grace and peace,… Read more »
Where does the diversity end? With equal representation by race? By church size? By gender? By CP giving? The variables are so great and though not always in the discussion when leadership roles are selected and filled, small church pastors are not among the list when looking at the percentage makeup within the convention. We do seem to have many who move from one trustee board to another when their time is up for one. This, IMPO, needs to end immediately. I know some pastors who seem to pastor so they can keep doing the trustee thing. It is as… Read more »
This is going to sound like I am trolling and I certainly take the Gospel more seriously than to troll about it but where are all of these evangelists and soul winners everyone keeps talking about?
They never approach me.
I can definitely recall one in the mid 80s who was from North Carolina. There may have been others but they are as scarce as hens teeth.
There are those who feel marginalized and aren’t, And those who feel marginalized and are. But since we are family we are to care for not only how each other feels but also how each other are being treated. Therefore if we go beyond relieving and including those we have been excluding we would serve both of the above groups. And since we are family, when we serve family we serve ourselves. Now my white brothers, my fair skinned brothers, my Caucasian brothers, if you are color blind, and I believe you are, then you don’t care what color the… Read more »
Your reasoning is very lovingly accurate Brother
I guess that if you could include someone because of skin color you might have to exclude someone because of theirs.
Rick may have meant his statistical analysis as a joke, but seeing those numbers was helpful to me. I appreciate the idea behind this, but I don’t really follow this stuff. Evangelicalism is entrepreneurial. If one is not on a task force or Committee, create one. I remember Wiley Drake talking to Adrian Rogers about this. Wiley felt like he wasn’t included in anything. Adrian told him that the convention was his, too, and he should act like it. I know that won’t solve or address all of the issues here, but it does seem to me to be part… Read more »
Let me add, however, that notwithstanding my thoughts about the SBC generally, I am in full favor of inclusion, and efforts to be inclusive.
“The SBC is not a top down thing. It’s bottom up.”
That is the goal, but I’m not sure, Louis, that it is a reality.
Dave,
We agree on this point. Universe, you win!
….and I think what you think is right.
Louis, Although some people took it that way, I did not mean my statistical analysis as a joke. It is astonishingly accurate, except for the Clergy-Laity Factor pointed out by Lynn. I confess that I don’t quite know how to handle that specific factor, for if we came close to the true proportional reality, we would have *mostly* laypersons on all our leadership boards, and very, very few clergymen. Again, I don’t know of a single denomination that operates like that. Perhaps the Clergy-Laity mix could simply represent the balance of SBC Annual Meeting Messengers. Thank you for taking the… Read more »
Oh, we know you are not joking about your lust for an SBC civil war….most of us wish you were though. The fact that you compared (after having made it clear you were not joking) the validity of the “war” you and your anti cal team are waging against brothers and sisters who hold to a completely orthodox theology – one that is well is in line with the current confessional statement as well as the confessional history of Southern Baptists – with the inerrancy battles is both sickening and sad….I mean really. Those who rejected inerrancy and sufficiency of… Read more »
Honestly, since you view cals in the same light as liberals who deny scripture – why the world would you even want 2 of them on any committee at all??? If I viewed “trads” as you view cals (as false prophets/teachers/heretics) – I’d want you gone….
I mean based on what y’all believe and say about cals ….I do not blame you for wanting them out of the convention….but you should just be honest about it….stop playing both sides…You want a Cal-Less convention (or at least Cal-Less leadership)… admit it.
Hello Tarheel, 1. I do not want a civil war. I want to negotiate a fair and balanced civil peace. 2. The comparison between the Inerrancy Debate and the Soteriology Debate, for me, ends at the place where we say that both of them “were divisive issues in the SBC over which people disagreed and deserved careful consideration to resolve the conflict.” 3. I do *not* believe that the Soteriology Conflict needs to end in a denominational split, like the Inerrancy Conflict did. They are decidedly different kinds of issues. However, this does not mean that we have no concerns… Read more »
ok Rick. .
Tarheel
Maybe war is planned if things don’t go their way. As long as the Convention cedes to their requests, there is no need for war.
And to be fair, requests that they believe are reasonable and proper as well as fair
I still quite understand the negotiation aspect of this. Who is going to negotiate? Who gets to represent each side? Does C316 purport to represent all non-Calvinist SBCers? Who elected them?
I also don’t quite get how the present leadership makeup came about in an anti-congregational and anti-democratic manner. Did they force their way into their positions? Did they mis-represent themselves in some way? It seems to me that everyone who is an entity head got there through the normal and approved processes. Did I miss something?
Of course!
I appreciate your contributions to the discussions.
Exactly bill…there has been no takeover….there has been no improper action by trustee boards or by those individuals they’ve elevated to leadership positions. It’s all happened, to the extent it has (and I’m not buying that it has), according to the rules.
It’s fallacious to assume that all non cals are “traditionalists” (as defined by Patrick and Hankins) but that’s exactly what they do.
It’s certainly fallacious to assume that all non cals desire the same quota based exclusion of Cals from the convention as they do.
Rick,
If Calvinists were in only 2 % of the SBC leadership, would you be championing for their representation to increase to your 20% number? Would you join their call for equal representation or would you simply say… “Shut up and be nice”?
I think I know.
Jon, I would *favor* 20% Cal leadership in the SBC if they only had 2%. That’s exactly what I wrote and exactly what I believe. SBC leadership should *look like* the SBC. That’s the principle behind all of this. Now, would I go to the effort to “champion” such a cause, as you have said? Probably not. I don’t see a lot of Feminists “championing” Second Amendment rights. I don’t see a lot of racial minorities “championing” reverse discrimination. See what I mean? I think the Calvinists, if they were under-represented in that way, would themselves push for more representation.… Read more »
Yeah right.
Rick…
Your answer is what I expected. Basically, the fight only has a value to you when you see yourself on the outside. It’s not really about fighting for fairness in the SBC.
Thanks for the clarity.
A task-force is named to study and make recommendations to help Southern Baptist reach the lost and before the task-force has its first meeting the makeup of the task-force is dissected, reported on, and criticized.
This gives me a check in my spirit.
The OP was respectful and made quite reasonable points. In the past presidents have appointed these blue ribbon task forces, listened to feedback, and added people but I don’t know if this is possible on this one.
The SBC is long past the time when leaders could whistle past evaluation and criticism. The messengers voted to allow Gaines to appoint the group but didn’t know the makeup until he announced.
The best course would be to add people and explain why the mega/seminary dominated composition.
William, I agree the OP is respectful and reasonable. I would expect nothing less from VFNSBF.
I’m struggling with the idea that increasing baptisms alone should not be the goal when naming this task-force but certain optics have to be considered.
Here’s the thing, Dean. The goal of this, as I understand it, is not just to “up the numbers” but to figure out what is wrong with the SBC, why Baptisms are sagging and dragging, and fix it. Right? If you are going to figure that out then it is wise to have a representative sampling of TYPES of churches, because fixing statistical problems at a mega and at my church in Iowa are likely two different animals. And reaching minorities may necessitate a different approach. If we have a monolithic task force, our fear is that there will not… Read more »
Dave, I’m not surprised you have been wrong. One of my life’s greatest joys is pointing out when you are wrong. ? To me, the letter seems to focus on diversity for the optics more than increasing baptisms. (That is the check on my spirit.) Would adding one more minority, one woman, and two bivocational pastors produce different recommendations? I’m not convinced but I embrace minorities, I have been bivo, and my wife and mother are/were women so I offer no resistance to the notion. By the way, most seminarians I know attend smaller churches so there could be small… Read more »
Dean, thanks for the feedback. This isn’t about diversity just for the sake of diversity but diversity for the sake of having other voices at the table who bring varying perspectives that will only benefit the final report. I am hopeful that we’ll get good recommendations either way, but I do think the report can only be helped by additional perspectives.
Bottom line…our leaders forgot…to forget the marginalized further marginalizes them…and may actually reflect some passive racism in our SBC leadership.
“May actually reflect some passive racism…” This statement right there is a majority of the problem in making inroads for this issue. And what exactly is “passive racism” anyway? I suspect that the real issue for marginalized groups is the fact that leadership knows of no one from those groups. For the Mega-Church Pastor who rose to the top, he has left the small church crowd far behind. In fact he may believe (as Andy Stanley has suggested in comments that he has walked back after getting criticism) that the small church is ill equipped to met the needs of… Read more »
By passive racism I mean not thinking about how some action or inaction on our part might actually marginalize someone who does not deserve to be marginalized UNTIL it is brought to our attention. But then it is really too late to ‘do the right thing’. All you can do is damage control. It is kind of like making a decision that affects your wife as much as it does you (like buying a new car or what cruise to sign up for) without asking for her input. There is no way to ‘make it right’. But you can at… Read more »
Dean, It seems you are thinking of direct results of board and committees decisions. But what if it is the perception of the lost that we as a people are not hindered by the earthly strife that is involved in race and gender and power/money and are on us there love of Christ that overcomes human obstacles that stagnant must of our American culture? Of course that is an indirect benefit that could bring us more baptisms and never could be directly proven. But then your goal is not really dependent on what we do. It is dependent on what… Read more »
Anyone know ifBellevue actually built their prayer chapel? I know he was all over that when he went there
Was just curious
Thanks