This prayer has made the rounds and just about every blog has weighed in. Here’s your chance. Is this a light and funny moment in which, as Pastor Nelms said, he obeyed the biblical injunction to “in everything give thanks?”
Or was this a sacrilege against Christ? Did this Baptist (I’m not sure if he is Southern Baptist – no evidence that he is) pastor seem more intent on seeking God or on entertaining the crowds? Is it appropriate to give thanks for your “smoking hot wife?” And is saying, “In Jesus’ name, boogety-boogety-boogety” an appropriate close?
I love humor. I love a good joke. But I found this tasteless and profane. It is not my desire to judge Joe Nelms or question his faith or his motives, but for me this was way out of bounds.
What say you?
(Not sure why, but ads appear when I run this player. I just don’t know how to get rid of that.)
Dave,
I agree with you….this looks like just an attempt to entertain the crowd, instead of truly being a prayer to God. And, it was way over the line. It was very inappropriate.
However, the redneck in me liked it, and it was funny. I mean, c’mon, you have to laugh at something like this….
No doubt that it was funny. And I’m one of those guys that likes to use a lot of humor in sermons (though some think it is inappropriate).
But I never tell jokes about God, about Christ, etc. And I am very reluctant to use humor in prayer – though I guess I’ve done it a couple of times around the dinner table.
I’m not trying to be Joe Nelms’ judge and jury. I just felt like this crossed a line – for me at least.
One does not have to laugh at something like this…
Chris,
I did. But, at the same time, I thought it was waaay over the line.
David
In prayers, we must remember to ask ourselves: “To whom are we praying?” This is particularly true in public prayers. It is then that we have to remind ourselves that the crowd should not be the audience.
I am a 73 old stuffy curmudgeon and I loved it. And I haven’t been appointed to anybody’s Pastoral Prayer Approval Commission, so I’ll consciously avoid judging the prayers of other.
Besides, he wasn’t talking to me. Guess we’d have to ask God if He liked it.
Bob,
Except he was talking to you. You and all others in the audience. He admits this in his follow-up comments: http://hamptonroads.com/2011/07/pastor-defends-invocation-says-he-didnt-want-give-cookiecutter-prayer
“But it’s the same prayer week in and week out and I’m not sure anybody is even listening to it anymore. So I said, I want to get somebody’s attention, so that’s been our desire every time we’ve been up there, to try to make an impact on the fans and give them something they’ll remember and maybe they’ll go home on a Friday night or a Saturday night and say, “Maybe I ought to get up and go to church in the morning.’’”
His prayer was for human ears, not for God. It wasn’t even a form of corporate prayer. At best, what he did was a misguided, poor, unhelpful attempt at evangelism. But it was not prayer to God.
Disgusting, revolting, pitiful.
Am I going to have change my moniker so as to avoid confusion?
I love humor as much as the next guy, that is, when in the proper context, but this one was over the line in my opinion.
Blasphemous. Shameful.
Another thought . . . all those brands that the pastor mentioned in the prayer ? Maybe he was doing that in order to collect some money from those companies to give to the missions?
Now THAT would make cents.
Let’s see . . . hundreds (thousands) of drunken race fans cheered.
Must have been a godly prayer . . . NOT!
If the goal of his prayer was to get applause, then it was successful. But, was God clapping? I don’t think so.
I might just do a shout out about my “smokin’ hot wife” during my pastoral prayer this coming Sunday. (However, I don’t think that I will get to the Amen before she bolts out of her seat and slaps me silly!)
good for her !!!!!
Dave, you know how I feel since I posted about it. #prayerfail
I also love it when Frank and I agree.
I too, thought it i poor taste. If one loves his spouse, and I do mine, there are appropriate times, places, and ways in which to do so. Likewise, prayer is talking to the Sovereign of the Universe, not to the “man upstairs,” or to the “good buddy.” That having been said, this is a reminder of how all of us speak and what we communicate when we do so.
Just recently found your website and I love it. I’m an SBC pastor and have enjoyed reading your articles and comments. I feel the need to weigh in on this one. I must ask, is this the sort of prayer that Moses would recite? Or David? Or Solomon? Or Nehemiah? Would we hear it from the lips of Paul? Or Peter? How about Jesus himself? Jesus gave us a good example of public prayer with what we call today “The Lord’s Prayer” and this bears no resemblance to what we heard from the lips of this pastor. Granted, I think he meant well, and I am not judging the man. I am judging the prayer, and I must say this was in the poorest taste. I see no example of irreverent prayer in God’s word. Prayer is not made to please people or entertain people – it is made to commune with God, to praise him and appeal to him. It seems this pastor wanted to appear clever and humorous, and while I have no problem with including some of that in preaching and teaching, I do not believe it is appropriate in this context. The prayer simply disgusted me. It seems in many ways we are simply losing a reverent attitude towards the Lord God Almighty. He sought the applause and laughter of men, and received exactly what he was after.
I dunno, I think I like this better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZnDt2wEFjk
But, when I hear obvious outrage at a prayer like this where all sides seem to agree, and look at the reasons given (all of which are valid):
“I must ask, is this the sort of prayer that Moses would recite? Or David? Or Solomon? Or Nehemiah? Would we hear it from the lips of Paul? Or Peter? How about Jesus himself?”
“If one loves his spouse, and I do mine, there are appropriate times, places, and ways in which to do so. Likewise, prayer is talking to the Sovereign of the Universe, not to the “man upstairs,” or to the “good buddy.” ”
“Disgusting, revolting, pitiful.”
I think of the intramural debates we often have that not only cross these same lines, but in some cases, leap miles beyond and are completely lacking in humility, contain personal insults, etc., and yet that seems to be accepted as normal (calls to keep things civil excluded of course).
I don’t get the seeming hypocrisy. When the world sees our reaction to a prayer like this as universal condemnation because it is “un-Christlike”, what do they think when the very next minute, we go and tolerate the same behavior in “our side” in arguments with fellow Christians (or worse, in arguments with unbelievers)? Maybe I’m hyper-sensitive to this now because I am involved in a church plant where we are intentional about reaching the lost, not transplants. Seriously – I know people who don’t know the difference between Jonah and Noah, and they are the ones we are trying to reach with the gospel.
I’m not saying I would ever pray like Pastor Joe, but I always contextualize prayer based on the people who are listening to me. I don’t want to sound all “high and lofty” when the people I am praying with don’t know the difference between Jonah and Noah. If I want them to pray along with me, I need to be aware of who they are and what they understand.
The people in that NASCAR crowd did not know the difference between Noah and Jonah. Two questions:
1. Why even pray at an event like that?
2. What kind of prayer would you have prayed if you were asked?
I have some ideas of my own, but I’d like to hear your thoughts.
Just askin’,
Jeff.
I appreciate you asking and providing another perspective Jeff. While I have never prayed at a NASCAR event, I was recently blessed to offer the invocation and benediction at our local annual Fallen Police Officer’s memorial (filling in for our Chaplain who was out on a search and rescue). Maybe this sounds redundant, but I prayed about praying. I took it so serious I wrote a couple of things down I thought I should cover in the closing prayer. I’m not normally one for having prayer notes, but it was a rare and special opportunity the Lord had blessed me to be a part of.
I work in our local jail ministry, but primarily with inmates. However, I naturally get to interact with deputies. Many of them are unchurched, but wonderful men and even godly men whose crazy schedules keep them out of church. Following Pastor Joe’s example, should I have prayed for their sirens to be loud, their engines to be high performance, their aim to be true, their glocks not to jam and their kevlar vests to deflect the bad guys bullets? I’m not trying to be facetious, and perhaps you misunderstood my mention of Jonah and such.
My prayers are not lofty recitations of thees, thous and thys. I’m pretty laid back and pray in a conversational way. However, I make sure to be reverent. I’m not going for a laugh when I pray. I’m standing in the presence of the Lord Almighty. I don’t act the way Pastor Joe did around my boss at my other job, why in the world would I act like that when praying publicly?
Should we pray at events like this? Is there any opportunity for prayer that we should not take is the more appropriate question. Don’t pray boring prayers like everybody else, pray as the Holy Spirit leads you. To finish my story of praying at the memorial, when the time for the closing prayer had come, the lights were dimmed so low, I could not effectively see my notes. I took it where the Spirit led me.
In closing, I’m not questioning Pastor Joe’s ability as a pastor or relationship with the Lord. I just think this was a single instance of an irreverent prayer.
If even the wrath of man gives God praise, because if it didn’t he would restrain it [Psalm 76:10], then surely even Pastor Nelm’s prayer gave the Lord God Almighty praise too.
Let’s just all ask our heavenly Father to bless us that everything we say and do will give him glory and honour and ask him to mercifully keep us from saying and doing things that will lead our brethren to sin.
Seems like he forgot that when he offers up worship or prayer, it is supposed to be to an audience of One.