Editor: I’d give Bart an introduction, but you pretty much all know who he is, right?
While we await a Supreme Court decision that could possibly re-define marriage in American jurisprudence, would you entertain with an open mind an argument from me to the effect that the marriage debate, while very important, is not the most important question that the homosexual movement has placed before us as Christians? Rather, the most important question that the homosexual movement has raised for Christians is the question of whether reparative therapy (a.k.a. conversion therapy, ex-gay ministry, etc.) is a valid hope and a realistic goal for those who approach the problem of homosexuality from a Christian viewpoint.
The future outlook for reparative therapy has never been so bleak as it is now in the United States. The American Psychiatric Association, as early as 1998, formally opined: “The American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as ‘reparative’ or ‘conversion’ therapy, which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder, or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/ her homosexual orientation.” Of course, psychiatry is hardly a science, and the APA is easily blown hither and yon by the trade winds of liberal academia and the trends of the day. Nevertheless, the pliability of the APA proves the point rather than disproving it—the momentum of cultural opinion sets aside reparative therapy as not only impractical but also injurious.
If the opinion of a cadre of vociferously lost people doesn’t seem to you to be a cause for concern for the future of reparative therapy, maybe the recent turn-about of Alan Chambers will. Chambers is the head of Exodus International, which has heretofore been one of the largest proponents of reparative therapy. Last summer, Chambers repudiated reparative therapy, saying that it “sets the person seeking therapy up for failure by giving him or her unrealistic expectations.” Even among those who hold fast to the unambiguous Christian message—that sex between two men or two women is an abomination before God—support for reparative therapy is flagging. Make no mistake: Chamber is not questioning a particular approach to reparative therapy; he’s stating that it is not possible to help anyone move from being a homosexual to being a former-homosexual.
I’d like to suggest to you that we Christians cannot abandon reparative therapy. Here are a few reasons why:
1. The concept of “ex-gay” is explicitly scriptural. “Such were some of you.” That’s what Paul declared in 1 Corinthians 6:11. The Bible does not merely suggest that it is possible for someone to be “ex-gay,” God tells us in the Bible about specific people for whom it actually happened. Now, for those who have abandoned the Bible as God’s normative truth for us, this will not be a very persuasive argument. But if you receive the Bible as God’s inerrant word, to abandon the concept of reparative therapy is going to cost you a lot more than the loss of some subpoint of your overall view of homosexuality; you’re going to have to change your view of the nature of scripture in order to come to the conclusion that being formerly gay is an “unrealistic expectation.”
2. The concept of being “ex-gay” is central to the gospel. It is given in parallel with the hope of being “ex-fornicator” or “ex-drunkard” or “ex-unrighteous.” All of these conversions rest equally in the hope of the washing, sanctification, and justification that inhere to the gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s why this topic is so important, not because homosexuality is so important, but because this really isn’t even about homosexuality, but about whether being “born again” is or is not more powerful than being “born that way,” in whatever condition it may be that you have been born. I think it is no accident that those who disparage this approach to the problem of homosexuality will refer to it as “conversion therapy”—what’s really on trial here is conversion itself. Does the gospel really make someone a “new creation,” or is it not really quite so powerful as all that? If it isn’t, then we need to shutter our churches.
3. What if the power of the gospel over other sins were measured in the same manner that reparative therapy has been measured? It seems to me that, in the case of reparative therapy, success has been correlated with the permanent and complete disappearance of temptation—no, more than that, with the reflexive possession of a vigorous heterosexual libido. Do we expect that in any other area of the Christian life? Do we declare ex-hothead therapy to be a failure until we have a large host of people who can never be provoked, no matter what? Do we declare ex-drunkard therapy to be a failure until we can consistently see people rolling off of our therapy production line who never feel the temptation to drink again? Have we considered the fact that quite a bit of counseling time goes into the sometimes-difficult task of cultivating a vigorous heterosexual libido…in heterosexuals?! It seems to me that, in every other case, we consider the power of the gospel to be successful when someone successfully resists temptation, not even looking for a time when that person will not be tempted at all.
4. If you believe in freedom, you will support reparative therapy. There’s a strange interplay between the language of freedom and the language of bondage in the pro-homosexual propaganda narrative. On the one hand, same-sex marriage has been cast as a question of civil rights. The present need, we are told, is for people to be free to love whom they will, to marry whom they will, and to form families with whom they will. These are all rhetorical statements that make the homosexual movement to be a movement toward freedom. On the other hand, we are told that homosexuals are not free. They are born with their sexual orientation (although scientific research does not support this claim…see the same APA page I cited above, at http://www.psychiatry.org/mental-health/people/lgbt-sexual-orientation). They didn’t choose to be gay. They can’t help it. They can’t do anything about it. And whenever a homosexual person dares to step out of line and suggest that his or her homosexual behavior has been freely chosen, that person feels the wrath of the homosexual lobby (for example, Cynthia Nixon http://entertainment.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/01/24/10226838-cynthia-nixon-im-gay-by-choice?lite). The pro-homosexual talking points are firmly moored to the postulate that there is no freedom whatsoever involved in being gay or straight.
Christians, that whole situation ought to stir the compassion in your heart. Human anatomy is clearly designed for heterosexuality. How difficult must it be to know that your body has been designed for one reality, to know that your temptations have taken you away from the design of your body, and to believe that you never had any freedom to choose in the matter than that no hope exists for you ever to experience sexuality differently? Freedom from homosexuality exemplifies better than most subjects the hopeful and grim realities of Galatians 5: That Christ set us free apart from our help, that the defense of our freedom is a task that falls to us, that recapture by earthly bondage is ever a frightening possibility, and that, by the help of the Holy Spirit, freedom is possible for us all.
In conclusion, I realize that reparative therapy is unpopular, and that to advocate for it is to invite name-calling and to provoke anger. Yet I hope that you have seen in this little article a sound, if not decisive, argument that reparative therapy is a concept intricately caught up in our understanding of the gospel and the new relationship with our sinful selves that we regularly claim that the gospel makes. That truth is worth fighting for. That hope is worth proclaiming.
You make a good case. I don’t know much about sexual orientation therapy but I think if they follow typical psychological norms of talk therapy its probably fairly abysmal. And yet, change – transformation – is exactly what we say we believe in. Add to that the many who have had quite the transformation in their lives, specifically in this area, and its undeniably needed. SO, maybe its the way they are going about it? I don’t know that’s a problem, goodness knows I’m trying to go about the job of reaching the lost for Christ in a biblical way… Read more »
Clark,
I agree with what you are saying here. Talk therapy may not be terribly effective in changing people with regard to their sexual temptations, but in my experience, its overall batting average isn’t all that stellar.
I usually cringe when I read posts by heterosexual men on reparative theory. I wonder how easy it is for heterosexual men to sit down and type out posts like this — blissfully promoting sexual orientation change as though all one need do is choose vanilla instead of chocolate ice cream — by the grace of Christ, of course. I don’t advocate reparative theory; I see no tangible evidence for its claims (especially with regard to heterosexual men who experienced an upbringing with a distant father and an over-bearing mother, and homosexual men who experienced an upbringing with a loveable… Read more »
William,
I was thinking the same thing as you while reading through this post. Thanks for your reply.
Back in college I took up smoking. Marlboro Red’s, various forms of clove cigarettes, and the occasional Black-N-Mild (as well as another substance of dubious legality) were my products of choice. I didn’t stay in the smoker’s world for very long, two or three years at most, but during that time I was undeniably a smoker. When I quit, I was no longer a smoke. Haven’t had a cigarette in years. On the other hand, my father-in-law has been a smoker since his pre-teen years and gives no evidence of ever giving it up. The part that always strikes me… Read more »
Chris, That was well-stated. But I’m afraid that our culture at large views reparative therapy in the narrow sense of “no longer being attracted to the same sex.” More conversation is desperately needed in that regard. My beef with reparative theory, however, pertains to the alleged origins or, rather, causes of homosexuality — notions which are not by any viable notion of consistency displayed or maintained by its test subjects. I should also state that I think people should have the freedom to reparative therapy if they so choose. In other words, any state outlawing the therapy is outlandish. I… Read more »
“’m afraid that our culture at large views reparative therapy in the narrow sense of ‘no longer being attracted to the same sex.'” I would agree that this view is problematic at best. Borrowing Bart’s verse above, when Paul says “and such were some of you,” this does not mean they never have a twinge of temptation toward the old ways. It means those temptations do not dominate and do not define. This is one reason why the recent “open letter from a lesbian in your church” is problematic – who we are cannot and should not be defined by… Read more »
Chris,
I could not agree with you more. Very well-put. God bless.
William,
I might need to be more carefully specific in what I write. I do not know that any METHOD of reparative therapy used up to this point is effective at all, nor that I am in favor of any of them.
Rather, what concerns me is the phenomenon of Christian people conceding lock, stock, and barrel that people are born homosexual and can never-ever be otherwise. That strikes me as a conclusion contrary to the teachings of the New Testament (not to mention a despondent morass of hopelessness).
Bart,
There are some situations where a man is born in a womans body, and a woman is born in a mans body. DNA tests show this.
As a result, a sex change operation is performed.
The mess that is going on now is sick, actual men and women
with bodies to back it up are going through sex change operations. There was a man on television who had a sex change operation said his biggest dream is to give birth.
People need Jesus.
Jess,
There is no such thing as a man born in a woman’s body, or the opposite. Apart from the body, humans have no sexual identity. At the heart, a man is a spirit, and their is no difference between the spirit of a man and that of a woman. As for DNA, that would either be male or female, so it could not in any way show a man to have been born in a woman’s body. Rather, it would only show that the body is either male or female.
At risk of delving into some of the less pleasant genetic abnormalities, a little lack of clarity exists for people who are born hermaphrodites – containing both (entire or partial) reproductive organs. Such cases are extremely rare, of course, and one set of traits usually dominates.
there is a sad phenomenon that is rare, thank God, where a child is born ‘intersex’ ( this used to be called by the misleading name of ‘hermaphrodite’) genetic testing can affirm if this condition is present, but some visible signs are usually apparent the really sad problem here? Some parents of intersex babies choose for their babies a gender and go ahead and ask for surgery to ‘correct’ the baby’s ‘problem’, and later, as an adult, the intersex person may regret the choice their parents made for them, and wish the parent had gone with the other choice of… Read more »
Ken Hamrick,
Sir, look up intersex people, also these are not to be confused with hermaphrodites.
William
It’s never ok for a man to lust after a woman, but it is normal for a man to be attracted to a woman. He could fiind a woman who was mutally attracted to him, get married, and they could lust after each other to their hearts content.
A man who is attracted to men can never fullfill that desire. You agree? Do you agree that it is never ok for two men or two women to come together in a monogamous sexual relationship?
Joe,
I already conceded that I disagree with same-sex relationships. Where are you going with this?
William, Of course, we all fight temptation of some sort, and we will fight with it, until the Lord Jesus gives us our new bodies. Of course, we’re all tempted by something, and we all struggle with things. Your struggle just happens to be with same sex attraction. But, are you saying that a homosexual CANNOT change? Are you saying that a gay person cannot be changed by the power of the Holy Spirit? And, like Chris said above, I understand that the temptations may never leave us this side of Heaven…but, are you saying that a homosexual cannot be… Read more »
David,
Oh, no, I’m not saying that a person *cannot* be changed by God’s power; I’m saying that so many same-sex attracted Christians *are not* changed, even after praying for such (as with me, for over 18 years) and using reparative theory techniques.
Going no where. I didn’t see where you had said that. Just clarifying. If I were laying a trap, you would still be able to see the ACME box over on the side.
🙂 Hahaha … okay.
William, It seems to me that my point #3 makes several of the key points that you’ve made in your comment. A person is successfully “ex-gay” to the degree that he has put homosexual behavior behind him. Just as a person with an explosive temper can be considered to be changed by the gospel even if he is not 100% beyond provocation, the person who could still be tempted to fall homosexually but who does not do so is, I believe, a success story. I do not believe that a person’s sexuality is set in concrete, but neither do I… Read more »
Bart, Thank you for responding. I’m curious: you state: “I do not believe that a person’s sexuality is set in concrete, but neither do I believe that one puts it on or takes it off like yesterday’s T-shirt.” Would that include your own sexual orientation toward women? That question is relevant, I think, for all heterosexual men. This concept is why I usually cringe when reading about reparative therapy. I think what put me off most about your post was your take on the 1 Corinthians 6:9 passage with direct reference to reparative therapy, the “ex-gay” notion, and change. I… Read more »
William, I do believe that my own sexuality has changed over time. I have never experienced sexual attraction toward men, but as an adolescent—really until my college years—I think I could safely describe myself as comparatively (to what seemed to me to be a hyper-sexuality in the population at large) a-sexual. My own sexuality matured in college and then changed significantly when I married (we were both virgins). With changing circumstances, the onward march of age and development, etc., I’d say that the sexual part of my life and personality have, in fact, changed quite a bit over the course… Read more »
William,
I should also mention that I am open to the idea that people are born with greater or lesser inclination toward homosexuality. Of course, I believe that we are ALL born sinners, and that our sinfulness comes in bewildering variety.
Victory over sinful behavior comes long before victory over temptation. Victory over temptation can come in degrees rather than a binary move from “on” to “off.” And yet, I do not believe that ANY temptation must necessarily exist in our lives as an unmoving, unmoveable constant.
I’ve not had time to wade into this today, but having observed it, I have (so far) found this to be one of the more instructive discussions of this topic I’ve seen. Thanks Bart, and others.
Bart Barber,
You are exactly right.
Thanks for your very well written, biblical article.
David R. Brumbelow
A born again experience is the answer. I smoked for 20 years, I drank alchol for 15 years and a large part of that was moonshine. I had to have my alchol. A lot of sin I was involved in, I will not mention. I suppose I was the most selfish man on earth, with a heart full of hate. I did not trust anyone because they may have been like me. I didn’t want anyone to attend church including my family. When my wife would go to church I didn’t know she would have the church pray for me.… Read more »
jess,
You drank moonshine? Where are you from?
David
David,
Head up to the Tallahatchie region in Mississippi. Smoke still rises from the stills in that neck of the woods.
Chris,
Where my Dad is from…Wayne Co. TN…stills were still going last I knew….my Uncle used to be seen with some jugs…
David
volfan007,
I’m from the mountains of Eastern Ky.
Jess,
That explains the moonshine comment.
🙂
David
Bart,
I agree with everything you said in this post. Amen and amen.
David
Since our culture has become enamored with “being honest with how we feel” and acting on those feelings, most people are searching for that elusive dream of God to take away the feelings of being tempted to sin. I don’t know how we got there really, but I hear it over and over again. I thought the post did a good job of pointing to the fact that lack of temptation to sin is not a good metric for defining victory over sin, but a couple of the comments have made me wonder if that message was as plain as… Read more »
One of my biggest concerns in this debate is when professing Christians continue to find all or part of their identity in their sin.
I agree entirely, Mark.
Another phenomenon that comes to mind for me (I guess the author of the post shouldn’t keep adding to his post in the comments, huh?): Common “wisdom” in our culture is that homosexuals can never become heterosexual. And yet, heterosexuals can become homosexual. That happens all of the time. I’ve got a friend who graduate from high school with me. She was married for 20 years, had a bunch of kids, never demonstrated any same-sex attractions in her adolescence, never expressed any same-sex inclinations in her 20s. She grew discontented with her marriage. She divorced a few years back. Now… Read more »
There is a phenomenon I have noticed in dealing with people with past sins (porn, sexual immorality, alcohol, drugs, etc). I’ve seen the same thing with people with severe marriage issues. I have not had as much personal experience with counseling homosexuals on the issue, but have read stories that seem to mimic this phenomenon. Someone is deeply enslaved in a particular sin, and is freed by the Lord, by salvation. Or, a marriage is deeply broken and is healed by repentance and God’s restorative power. Things go along well for some time until that person begins to drift away… Read more »
I agree. I made reference to Galatians 5:1 above. I think there’s an important principle there. Christ sets us free. We have to stand firm and refuse to be enslaved again. There’s enough Calvinism there for you, Dave, and enough of something else in there for me. 😉
Uh…yeah.
I think we need to draw a very clear distinction between sin, and the temptation to sin. Such as would be the case in same-sex attraction vs sexual activity. That being said, if Reparative Therapy is helpful in avoiding giving in to the temptation, then that’s a Good Thing. And, as David asked God to create him a new heart .. a clean one .. I’m guessing that only God can change the “want to’s”. What’s condemned is that activity, in 1 Corinthians 6. That passage doesn’t say anything about their having changed their behavior via an elimination of temptation.… Read more »
Bob,
You started off well enough. Temptation is not sin, and attraction is not sin. But then you went back on that and said that males need to repent of being attracted to females. Mere attraction is no sin and does not need repenting of, but ordering our activities according to God’s word is certainly what we’re called to do.
The operative word in my comment was ALL females. I must not allow lust .. not a real problem in your 70’s by the way .. for anyone but my wife. I must order my activities to minimize that .. not getting too “friendly”, etc. Not putting myself in a position to get some sort of thrill from closeness to another woman.
That was the point.
Point well taken… but being attracted to all females is no sin. One may be attracted without lusting.
Bart, great post and well said.
Bart, though I don’t share yoir precise level of certainty about this issue (probably because I don’t share your precise exegesis of 1 Corinthians) I appreciate how you have broached this subject and the conversation it has produced. Thanks for wading into this often murky swamp. William Birch, I want to affirm your willingness to be transparent with others in a way that will bring all of us to a better and more practical unserstanding of how to minister to the gay community. And I also want to affirm your faithful struggle and subsequent faithfulness to Jesus. You exhibit great… Read more »
Joel,
That is greatly appreciated — more than you realize! God bless.
By the way, William, it’s good to have you back around here!
🙂 ‘Tis good to be back. Thank you!
Bart, you wrote, “Conversions TO homosexuality are accepted as normal. Conversions FROM homosexuality are decried as impossible.” I think this is an accurate observation and says a lot about the mindset of our culture. I note in one of your follow-up comments your skepticism about the worth of the therapy itself — a view I share. But I think another eye-opener in this area is that most don’t disagree with the idea of conversion therapy or reparative therapy — its about how you’re “repaired” or what your converted from. We don’t see the same kind of cultural animus toward being… Read more »
I agree with Bart’s cultural analysis of how “conversions” to and from homosexuality are viewed, and yes, it is absolutely duplicitous. I think it also reveals the grave error, and sloppiness of the psychological disciplines on this issue. In a similar vein, you can ask 6 different mental health professionals how to accurately diagnose a condition like ADD (something so common one would think there would be a standard set of “symptoms”) and you will likely get 7 different lists of symptoms. Too often we forget how young and primitive the mental health professions are, and although I believe they… Read more »
Joel, I don’t think we are far apart, just emphasizing different things in our statements. In the sense of which you speak, I would say that it is immaterial whether we are “born this way.” As you note, the Scriptures are clear about homosexual activity is sin. But, if as you suggest, someone at NIH discovered a “gay gene” tomorrow, the Christians who continue to stand against homosexuality as sin would probably soon be locked up in the nut house or imprisoned for hate speech! I further agree that “we would be wise to hear and learn from men like… Read more »
Bart-
The transparency of your comment at 6:07pm, and especially the paragraph beginning “Could I ever have been homosexual?”, was, in the only words I can find, refreshing to my spirit.
William Birch-
When you have a moment, could you email me? webmaster [at] martyduren [dot] com
Those who are appreciative of Bart’s post and the interchange following might be interested in Wesley Hill’s humble and thought provoking book, “Washed and Waiting.” (My review here: http://bit.ly/108Teq4)
Marty,
Just so you’re aware: I emailed you. God bless!
I was a smoker for 11 years. I started quitting in year 6. I threw out 100’s of half full/empty Marlboro soft packs during that time. Then, one day it hit me and I just quit. Never picked them up again even though I could enjoy one right now. The desires diminished quickly. On a couple of occasions I had a nightmare that I started up again. If the homosexual desires to quit, he can. In some cases, he just has to keep quitting until he does. If we are discipling him/her we need to prepare for longsuffering and perseverance.… Read more »
No, reparative therapy has had a very poor success rate. It seems that Christians often suffer and deal with problems persisting through life, and that our prayers are not always answered in the way we wish. I don’t entirely understand it all. Only that ‘bad stuff’ is the raw material for success and that GOd’s weakness is made perfect in our strength. I know that God’s promises are all realized if not in this life, then in the life to come.
Excellent post and comments. I’ve seldom (if ever) seen this issue dealt with as openly and honestly. One very necessary thing could be added to this discussion. With all the talk of “reparative therapy,” I couldn’t help thinking: Isn’t the local Church supposed to be a Reparative Therapy Center for all forms of sinful behavior? Where else can we as redeemed sinners go to and find those who will love us unconditionally, pray for us fervently, fellowship with us unreservedly, exhort us consistently, and humbly hold us to a godly standard of accountability? We as pastors and Churches have ceded… Read more »
Good word.
Amen.
Well, Randall, what we find is that Christians continue to suffer and face temptations and trials throughout life. If the Wisdom literature suggests anything, it’s that actions and rewards are not necessarily linked and that all kinds of things happen in a world where God is sovereign and has his own purposes. It is true that some people are transformed in more radical ways at certain times. But this is not inevitable, neither is it the rule. It is probably more the exception. What we find is that life remains very much a struggle and this life an exile, if… Read more »
Jon, I understand what you’re saying, BUT…..God does transform us at the new birth. He makes us new….a new creation. And, our desires after that are for Him, and to please Him. Yes, as long as we live on this sinful planet, and live in these fallen bodies, we will be tempted….we will struggle with our flesh….and we will fail God, at times….no doubt about it. I agree with you….we will never reach a state of being, where we’re above temptation…in this life on Earth….of course, one day, we will be finally and forever set free from sin. But, that’s… Read more »
David, I agree with much of what you write here; but I also think that the one issue that is not necessarily being addressed with this line of reasoning is that you willingly chose your drug-taking and women-chasing, whereas we did not choose to be attracted to the same sex (nor did you choose being attracted to the opposite sex — a concept that even Dr. Al Mohler addressed and agreed to a year ago). No matter your regeneration and identity in Christ, you are still a heterosexual, regenerated man, and I, for example, am still a homosexual, regenerated man.… Read more »
William, I understand what you’re saying. BUT…lol….all of us are attracted to sinful things….that’s the sin nature that we were all born with…I was attracted to sexual sins, drinking liquor, smoking dope, and being a people pleaser, and a host of other things that I’m ashamed of….I mean, we can all say that we were born with an attraction to _______. We’re all sinners. Our sins just ooze out of us in different ways. So, we can all CHOOSE to NOT do those sinful things, anymore. And, I’m sure that you’d agree with that; right? With God’s help, we can… Read more »
David,
Again, I think you’re missing the point. Yes, I can choose not to act on my attraction to men. But I cannot choose whether or not I am actually attracted to men.
William,
Yes, I do understand what you’re saying. And, I do understand that that’s a struggle you’ll live with. I do get it. And, all the rest of us, out here, also struggle with some kind of temptations, too.
David
Okay, I’m with you. I hope I wasn’t reading “past” you.
No problem, William. God bless you, my Brother.
David
I feel like I’ve slipped into an alternate reality. Who would have thought, given our history at Voices, that this particular topic would engender an amazingly civil and helpful conversation?
The pressing question is this: If someone were to come in to our church and articulate his struggle and situation like William has, what response would he get?
We would discover who the “true” Christians are. We think that everyone in the church, with the exception of a few, are Christian. Unfortunately, the true percentages are in the teens.
On what basis would you argue that less than 20% of church members in our churches have been truly born again?
That is an average, Dave. It has been said that only 20% in the church tithe. Tithing doesn’t prove a person’s salvation but it is a window to the heart. If your church has a higher average of saved people it wouldn’t set the pace either. I just know I have taught in several churches in the South and experienced an emptiness in people over the 33 years I have been saved. It is not about stats, it is about a true concern about saved people’s salvation. I was one who thought they were saved at 6 years old. Now,… Read more »
The Pharisees must have had amazing hearts…tithing their spice rack and all. I kid, I kid. I’m just trying to make the point that tithing may not be the best indicator. Why do they tithe? Is it to get a blessing from God? Is it legalism?
Show me how someone cares for orphans and widows. Show me what someone does when they mess up, or when tragedy strikes. That will be a better barometer of their heart condition than tithing.
Mike, First, the indicator is fruit. We can know about other’s fruit because of the fruit we produce. Tithing was just a sample. Even tithers may not be saved. When I read Matthew 25:31ff I see the elect and those who did allot of the same things the elect did thinking they were saved (Care Groups, etc.). It looks like it was about 50/50 in those verses but I do not see that in most churches I have been in. It is not judging on my part, just an observation that I believe to be accurate. I really hope I… Read more »
I’ll give public testimony of God’s grace to me through my Southern Baptist church back home. After the very public exposure of my sin last year, the whole church knowing the homosexual nature of what I did, they — the majority of them, at least — embraced me, prayed for me, and sought to restore me. My first Sunday home, our pastor, during the closing prayer — fully knowing all that I had done, and all that was going on in my life — prayed, “God, I am the chief of sinners in this place; and then he broke down… Read more »
A+
Agreed.
Yep.
May God’s grace continue with you. I pray that God’s grace continue with your church. Amen.
Thanks for sharing that update. Its good to hear about a church and pastor responding well. Many churches wouldn’t have.
William:
I hope you don’t think this question is out of line. I’m curious about your move to Anglicanism. That would not necessarily bother me per se. But given your testimony here, and where Anglicanism is right now in this country, I have a fear that from your new church you will find affirmation that you absolutely do not need, and not find accountability that you do need. Does that make sense?
I am just a little leery of someone struggling with what you are struggling with finding help for that struggle within the Episcopal church.
Bill, I understand completely. I don’t know how much consolation this will bring you, but, I’ve received affirmation to just “accept the way I am” even from members in my Southern Baptist church back home last year and still did not concede. I engaged in homosexuality for nine years prior to receiving Christ as Lord and Savior (1986-1995). When I turned my back on that “lifestyle,” for lack of a better word, I intended to do so for the rest of my days. Nothing has changed. I’ve been studying Anglicanism for nearly three years now (three years this May). My… Read more »
William,
Fair enough. I know there are still some good solid Episcopalian churches in this country and I hope you find (have found) one.
Thank you, Bill. When I was looking for an Episcopal church, I found one with a female pastor who believes she has lived past lives. Oh, God, deliver us! I found a relatively conservative congregation whose pastor used to be a Southern Baptist. I considered that as a sign of Providence, hahaha.