I dropped my daughter off at school this morning and I was overjoyed to see the kids around the flagpole. I was saddened that this year I couldn’t join them. What a great event, a great stride for Christians having prayer in public school, which is 100% legal if you do it right.
There is great opportunity for Christian activity on public school campus if it’s done correctly. Items like the Equal Access Act give Christian students a right to have Christian clubs if the school allows any other clubs. It opens the door for great opportunity. We need Christian students who will stand up for their faith. Those students need adults who will stand with them.
I am not saying that every pastor needs to go to a high school campus and try to start an organization, because you can’t. What I am advocating and encouraging is for adults to support, pray for, pray with, equip and encourage Christian students who attend secular, public schools. If you home school your kids, and that is right for you, that’s great. Don’t change, but know there are things you can do. Open your home to Christian students, public, private, Christian and home schooled for Bible Study. Encourage those students to be on mission, where ever they are. Pray for the students and encourage them.
Our students have a great mission field before them. If we stand behind them and help them stand together, they can do amazing things.
Dan,
I am at a crossroad with SYATP. I’ve encouraged it every year since it began. My crossroad with SYATP is that it appears to be a dead work that many, if not even most participants are doing with a damning effect on the unconverted. Isn’t there a reason we are to pray in the secret (home, church house, place of prayer) place? I wonder if the eternal effect of SYATP will produce more damned than saved. I wonder how many of those who show up every year for SYATP actually show up to pray with their church family? Are they devoted to prayer or are they unknowingly being used by the enemy to draw people in with their godless piety? Were those students praying with their church last night (if their church even still has prayer meetings)?
disclaimer to my rant: I realize that what I’ve said does not fit properly on all who gathered yesterday on their school campuses. God takes great delight in the prayers of his people. May that have happened everywhere. May God awaken our nation and churches as his people seek his face. May God radically rescue the United States of America as his faithful humble themselves and cry out to him in repentance.
Paul, I think in cases there is lots of validity to what you ranted about. I think there are pros and cons. In my opinion, best case scenario is a school that has a Christian club or group with a constant Christian presence. In that way, syatp is often less “showy” and has more opportunity to create dialogue that is productive and can have some great fruit.
Agreed.
Paul, we come to this crossroads often. If we train our children to be good little boys and girls, are we subtly teaching them to rely on fleshly works? By enforcing laws are we denying grace and the gospel?
I guess I understand where you are coming from, but I don’t really see the threat that you see.
Dave, The treat I see is mostly in the disconnect of most who attend a SYATP type event but rarely if ever gather with their church to pray. Yet many churches will brag about how many of their teens were bold enough to ‘pray’ at their school. I see that disconnect as a serious threat. (And, I do see a gathering of seriously devoted young people as a good thing among disciples.)
Why the greater concern for me? Does it bring delight to the Lord that many (not all) of those students would later that same day cheat on a test, gossip about a teacher, worship the god they have carved out for themselves, bow down to all their other gods throughout the day, dishonor their parents, and/or defile the temple of the Lord with the fulfillment of sexual lusting and godless behavior. That’s more the treat I see. Do we as pastors somehow give approval to those who care less about pleasing God and more about the dead works of the flesh by promoting this without calling these same students out to count the cost of being a disciple of Christ. Showing up early one day a year is cheap discipleship. Praying is a dead work if its not flowing from grace and the gospel. (Luke 18:9-15)
To the point of Dan’s post, I appreciate that there are genuine followers of Christ who seriously want their peers to repent and be rescued from their certain doom. There is a grand mission field here. We must not abandon such a mission field, we must consider the weightiness of the gospel duty here. I see events such as SYATP may be a serious threat to the unconverted, as much to the (potentially) blind participants, if those participating don’t take this seriously. (I lay this charge against my local church first. It is sobering. I want the church’s joy to be in the LORD, not how many people showed up for a publicity event promoted by free donuts and pizza for lunch.)
I appreciate Dan’s thoughts in his post. The Kingdom of the Lord is at hand! May students rise up and speak the gospel!
An ‘outward’ show of faith is here compared to ‘a strong Christian presence’ but I am wondering if this is something that needs rethinking . . .
especially when the hearts and minds of our school children are involved.
If I am wrong, please let me know what you think.
I am concerned for the teaching of a more integral Christianity to our young where their interactions with one another in the community show forth the fruit of the Holy Spirit to others as witness.
Nothing wrong with hands-held-around-the-flagpole praying, no. I’ve joined it myself at my old school before I retired, when I had that opportunity.
An example of ‘a more integral Christianity’:
A GLIMPSE INTO THE KINGDOM:
I had always wondered about something:
Our school where I worked was the kind of place that was not ‘sought after’ by teachers coming into the system. It was known, that the children there ‘did not have good support systems’, which is a euphemism for: grandmother cares for them, maybe mom is in prison, and ‘dad’ ???, well, we won’t even go there.
So our students did not have much, or so people thought.
The strange thing is that during the times when the School System sponsored contests to raise food for the Christmas Baskets to be sent out, our school always won these contests.
The dynamic? What was ‘going on’ that this could be?
Why were our students, who had so little, more ‘giving’ than the ones in the suburban schools surrounded by the million dollar homes? Why?
I was given a glimpse into this mystery when Nancy, our guidance counselor, and I delivered a basket to the room of a very frail, bird-like woman who had ‘nothing’ this world values.
(Nancy and I were on the committee to deliver Christmas baskets.)
We found her living at the back of a building with a ‘bar’ on the front, and alleys that were terrifyingly littered with broken bottles and other ‘unmentionable cast-offs’.
She invited us to sit down and we did not decline, as we might have done.
We talked with her for a while about our school and the children who had contributed the food.
She told us that the school children who lived nearby would often bring her food and would spend some time with her.
Then, this tiny woman gave us ‘a blessing’: as she held our hands, she prayed to God to thank Him for the food and for us and for the children.
Nancy and I left. In the car, we were silent and and both of us were in tears. Then this: “I felt like I was in church there”, said Protestant Nancy. “I felt it, too” said Catholic Christiane.
I never understood what happened there exactly, but I was given a glimpse:
our students ‘understood’ brokeness and loneliness. They knew what it meant to be hungry sometimes and they lived in the ‘dark places’ where we don’t want to go. In that dark realm, the Spirit of Christ shone brighter, because He was needed more, I think.
The greater the contrast between the ‘Broken-ness’ and “Healing Love”, the more we can understand: sometimes it is the magnitude of that healing blessing that speaks to us.
“Poverty” is much more than ‘material’, it lies in whether or not we are able to reach out and care, to love as He would have us to do.
My ‘disadvantaged’ children in that school taught me something, in their giving: the ‘real poverty’ was out there in the suburbs, and it had nothing to do with ‘money’.
I am thankful for the glimpse I was given.
I am very, very thankful.
I had no idea it was approaching (bad youth minister 🙁 ).
I’ve been to SYATP once with my daughter last year. I can see how it could easily become a show for the lost, but I like to think of it as a call to believers to act and think like believers all the time.
I agree with Dan that it should be AN event that existing Christian groups on campus should be doing so that it is part of the year, not a shot in the arm show. But, we’ve got to encourage and equip our youth to start those groups.
I’m working on that part now…
Dan,
I agree with the information in post for the most part, but would like to offer an alternative to going to a “public school to start an organization.” I taught in public school and lived under their rules. Let me say that what the law says and what schools practice (that is the administration) are two different things.
Just because you have “legal” rights does not mean you can practice them in the environment of public schools without impunity. Even when a teacher (or student) stays perfectly within the guidelines, many administrators will punish them for openly practicing Christian principles.
No, they can’t “legally” or “officially” do anything about it. But, from personal experience I can tell you to “lawyer up” because you are going to need one at some point if you aggressively evangelize on many public school campuses.
When you “lawyer up” be prepared to spend a significant amount of money to “win” your case, or hope some pro bono lawyer takes pity on you.
That said, let me offer an alternative to going to the public school to promote Christian values among youth — start your own school. A pastor anywhere can start a private school that provides a Harvard quality education for a community college cost.
We are doing it in our area for less than a family pays in fast food for a month. Our kids are excelling in Christian character and attaining an academically superior (fully accredited) experience from 2 years old through high school.
And, they pray around the flagpole every day–on their own without any prompting from any adults.
Been involved on campus in Public Schools, in Christian groups, as a Youth Pastor, Substitute teacher and doing some work on state college campus over the last 10 years in 3 states. I never experienced what you are talking about Franks, but we often don’t agree.
The questions that I have in regards to SYATP are…
Is this in the spirit of political statement or a genuine appeal to God? Why does it have to be “at the flagpole”? Why not in the gym or hall or auditorium? Does God hear our prayers wherever we are? Do we believe that? Who are we actually appealing to here, men or the Lord?
Of course I cannot speak for all those participating in SYATP, but I can tell you that our youth are indeed earnestly appealing to God.
Frankly, in the many years I’ve been involved, as a pastor and as a public school teacher, I’ve never heard a group pray to man.
The flagpole was chosen because of the connection to national revival for which SYATP was initiated. The gym would not have this significance unless we are looking to have a revival in American athletics.
Yes, God hears our prayers where ever we are: including at the flagpole.
I gather from your questions that you think there is some major problem created by SYATP. I’ve seen it as nothing but positive in the lives of youth, and many times in the life of the schools.
Sometimes, we just need to get out among the people and pray as well as spend time in our closets.
Frank,
Never heard anyone actually pray verbal words to “man” either, but thats not at all what I am implying. More on the lines of “to whom are we trying to convey a message?” Is it the God who sees us wherever, or the people who watching us at the pole or reading about it in the news?
Why is the location important at all? Does God expect us to go to certain relevant places to appeal to him? This seems like further evidence that it leans toward man’s eyes that God’s eyes.
I dont think that there is a major problem created by SYATP. I think it is a symptom of a much greater problem of man-centeredness as opposed to God-centeredness in our thoughts and motives.
Sometimes we just need to stop thinking that we need to add stuff to our prayers in order for them to be effective. Ten truckloads of political reform couldnt do what faith in one single drop of Jesus’ blood can.
Personally, Adam if I have youth in my church that want to hold hands and pray for God to invade their hearts and campus with His glory and power, I’m going to encourage them.
If the world watches and takes note, personally, I don’t view it as a bad thing.
“”””Ten truckloads of political reform couldnt do what faith in one single drop of Jesus’ blood can.””””
So what is a “light under a basket” or a “city on a hill” if not a call for the church to be active politically — meaning active among people?
Again, I don’t understand your problem with SYATP. Speaking personally again: if I could get ten truckloads of people to go and pray at a political rally, I’d be all for it. I’d jump in the back of the truck myself (and I have).
Once again, only speaking from my personal perspective, your post seems to me like a solution in search of a problem.
If you will allow me one more personal reference: I am known by people in my community as the preacher who writes his sermons at McDonalds. This gives me many opportunities to be “political” (out in the public) and to realize exactly who it is I’m preparing the sermons for.
I fully support all the prayer-filled political activity of any and all believes who are trying to be out in the “public” (L. politicus, citizen) portraying their dual citizenship.
“So what is a “light under a basket” or a “city on a hill” if not a call for the church to be active politically — meaning active among people?”
Frank, your are essentially correct with this statement, however only in so far it is applied in light of Matthew 6:1-6. If not, it becomes a dangerous appeal toward men instead of God.
I really dont have a problem with kids praying anywhere. At the pole, at wherever. Its just when that public act of prayer begins to lean toward making a political (as in “politics and government” not “out in the public”) statement that I have a problem.
I mean, if we REALLY believe that there is a God who hears and answers prayer, and Matthew 6:1-6 is true, why would we ever WANT to organize a time for prayer for our country in an overtly public space with direct symbolic ties to that country?
To me, it seems more like an organized passive protest than an active prayer (not that the kids are not actually praying, which I believe many are).
I thought it was just more convenient to meet at the flagpole since they generally try to start it a little earlier than many students typically show up for class, and the flagpole is typically right at the parking lot (of course, for high schoolers that drive and park in student parking, this may be opposite).
Stephen, the parking lot would be more convenient.
Except for all the cars trying to park. The original concept for syatp was students praying for themselves, their families, teachers and country. That was the essence of the original prayer in school before 1962. Students asking God for His hand again on our country. It’s us coming before God around something that represents our nation and asking for His hand to be with us. Maybe syatp has gotten away from that, but I think a public gathering at a flagpole to ask for God’s power to be poured out is what our nation needs. I am actually a little grieved as a group that would say this activity is bad because maybe there is a wrong motive by some participants. If we are going there, toss out the Worship service, tear down the church building and cancel every prayer meeting.