I am thankful for the decision by Willy Rice not to have Ben Carson as a speaker at the 2015 Pastors’ Conference. I am also thankful for his blog post explaining his reasoning. There is much there to affirm.
He reminds us that Carson is a man who sincerely and convictionally follows his faith. I have no doubt that this is true, and I am thankful for Carson’s influential voice in the arena of national politics. We have a heritage of religious liberty in which we welcome people of all faiths and denominations to participate alongside us in our civic lives, and it is a joyful thing to have Ben Carson as a part of that process.
Pastor Rice also reminds us that Southern Baptists are “open to listening to persons from outside our denomination,” and certainly that is true. At least, I can say that it is true for myself. “Persons from outside our denomination” is a pretty broad category within which all of us, I think (hope?), make finer distinctions. There are people outside the Southern Baptist Convention whom we would welcome at our Pastors’ Conference and people outside the Southern Baptist Convention whom we would not welcome. I cannot, for example, imagine our having Pope Francis as a speaker at our Pastors’ Conference, although I am thankful for our tradition of co-belligerence with the Roman Catholic Church on many political and social issues. I would be entirely comfortable, on the other hand, with having someone from…say…Voice of the Martyrs to come and speak about Christian persecution around the world, whether that person were Southern Baptist or Assemblies of God. (NOTE: If you know a deep, dark secret about Voice of the Martyrs that I do not know, then I apologize for the errant example.) I recognize that my objections could be construed or extended by some to be an argument that none other than Southern Baptists should speak at our Pastors’ Conference. I am thankful that Pastor Rice has helped to clarify for us all that our conferences are not closed to all who are not in our SBC fellowship. His position on that question is mine as well, and his statements to that effect are helpful. I just do not think that they apply well to someone who regards Ellen White’s writings as divinely inspired.
Pastor Rice has affirmed Ronnie Floyd’s efforts toward visible unity and spiritual awakening. With Pastor Rice, I affirm these laudable goals and rejoice in the sacrificial effort that he has made, retracting this speaking invitation as he has done, to further those objectives. Rice’s actions put the good of our convention ahead of his personal feelings, and he deserves our approbation for such selflessness.
Pastor Rice has reminded us that we must not withdraw from the arena of politics. Certainly I agree. I am merely asking for us to engage in politics in a way that makes it perfectly clear that our theology drives our politics rather than our politics driving our theology. Also, social issues are neither the only items of our theology nor the most important items. If there are those in Southern Baptist life who “believe that we should avoid all political involvements,” then together with Pastor Rice, I must respectfully disagree with them as well. I have read most of what has been written on this particular subject, and I have encountered neither anyone who is making that argument nor anyone whose public activities can be construed to support that argument. I simply think that we face a very real danger of subjugating questions like “Who is God?” “Which writings are scripture?” and “What must I do to be saved?” to questions like “What is marriage?” Let us answer the question about marriage and let us answer it decisively, unwaveringly, doggedly, and resolutely. Let us not be deceived, however, into ranking it anywhere other than last in the list of four questions that I have given above.
But what would make any Christian rank that question higher? It is not that the marriage question is disputed while the others are not. They are all disputed. It is not that Southern Baptists are any more settled and united on the marriage question than we are on the others. We are as clearly complementarian as we are Trinitarian, both confessionally and anecdotally. It is simply that marriage is a current political issue while the others are not. This is my reservation about our relationship with politics—that I fear that we sometimes allow our political angst to shape our theological priorities. I feel great sympathy toward that political angst. I know that those who fall victim to this temptation are not bad people. I nevertheless believe that the mistake is a deadly one to make.
The best line of his post was this one: “…it is my sincere hope that all of us will join together to humble ourselves and cry out to God for genuine spiritual awakening.” Amen and amen. I’m with you, brother. Thank you for your laborious and conscientious work.
I’ve written this from Africa, having made it to Ziguinchor where such things are possible. I’ll not likely be present in the ensuing discussion.
Very well stated
Bart, this is excellent. I too felt like Rice responded some to objections that were not being made. I did not support Carson’s invitation, yet agreed with everything he wrote in his blog. Regardless, I celebrate his decision not to have Dr. Carson, and appreciate the courage it took to make that decision.
I’ve read the articles here and on a few other sites about Dr. Ben Carson and the opposition to his invitation to the Pastor’s Conference as well as the gratitude for his withdrawal. It seems like most readers of this blog were in agreement in their opposition of his invitation as well as their agreement with his withdrawal, no small feat for a group of Southern Baptists! I hate to be out of step with so many of you in my reply, but I think he would have made a great speaker for the event. Further, even though the Baptist 21 article was gentle in tone, the perception in the greater evangelical world and even the world at large made us look petty and trivial. I think Dr. Carson would make a great President should he choose to run. I also think he has a great message for our country and convention. I love the fact that he is not an establishment candidate and is more of a citizen-politician. I do have trouble with Seventh Day Adventist theology but I do not think it eliminates him from speaking to a Pastor’s Conference in the way I think Romney’s theology did. My son actually met Dr. Carson a few weeks while he was speaking in a church pastored by a former SBC President (and current CEO of the SBC). My son remarked that Dr. Carson was one of the most humble and unassuming men he had ever met. Personally, I would love to see more examples like that in the pulpit of a Pastors Conference, be they Southern Baptist or not.
So when he said in Easter that Christians, Muslims and Jews all worship the same God you’re OK with that?
Hi Jeff, I do not think Dr. Carson was accurate when he said that. I’m not here to make a defense for him but could he have meant it in the “we’re all created in His image” kind of way? I don’t know.
Do you ever listen to people you do not agree with 100%? If so, what forums are valid forums to listen to people with whom you are not 100% in agreement? Again, I think the way this was handled was poor.
I can’t get over two facts in dealing with this issue. One, a committee of Baptists, headed by Elijah Craig, met with the colonial legislators of Virginia and made an agreement that in exchange for their religious freedom, the Baptist ministers would return to their communities and encourage their young men to enlist in the Patriots’ Cause (let that be understood to mean, “engage in a Civil War against a duly constituted monarch with some representative government). The result of the agreement is seen in Craig’s case or so it would seem, namely, that one whole regiment of the Virginia Militia in the American Revolution bore the last name of Craig (I copied every one of them from a volume of the DAR in the Arkansas State Library in Little Rock, while on a visit to my father in the eighties).
And then we have Dr. George W. Truett had Woodrow Wilson speaking at the First Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas, a nice bit for the Democrats. Truett would be appointed a representative of the President for one of the charitable efforts in Europe during the War.
While we are wrangling over what to do, the folks bent on tearing this nation to pieces or making a dictatorship out of it are hard at work. I do prefer days of fasting and prayer for a Third Great Awakening, but we also need to acquaint ourselves with all of the candidates and do our due diligence in the political realm. We also need to organize, agitate, march, etc., if we are to see our views return to the fore in America. The issue of America as a Christian Nation is a case in point. We are not, I repeat not, a Christian Nation in the sense of having a state church. However, we are Christian in the sense in that our nations founding and laws were derived from a high regard for the Bible (that is why it did have mercy involved and hope for the future). In fact, according to two professors who surveyed the field, the Bible by double digits (34%) was the major contributor to the founding documents over political philosophers like John Locke and Montesquieu (6-9%, depending on who and when). You all should look at George Washington’s letter to the Baptists of Virginia concerning the Constitution: “If I could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the Constitution framed in the convention where I had the honor to preside might possible endanger the religious rights of any ecclesiastical society, certainly I would never have placed my signature to it.” He also wrote of his zeal to establish barriers against spiritual tyranny and every species of religious persecution. Washington was likewise well aware of the Baptists support for the Revolution: “While I recollect with satisfaction that the religious society of which you are members have been throughout American, uniformly and almost unanimously (I know of only 4-5 ministers that opposed the Revolution, JDW), the firm friends to civil liberty, and the persevering promoters of our glorious revolution, I cannot hesitate to believe that they will be faithful supporters of a free yet efficient General Government.” More could be said, such as Thomas Jefferson attending church during his presidency, a Baptist church that was meeting in the capital building while their meeting house was being built, but this seems sufficient.
James,
What makes any country great is in its obedience, from the hearts of the people, to the Lord. Going back to the past is not an option. A third great awakening is not an option we can take, that lies in the hands of God alone. Political maneuvering to get ‘Christian’ laws passed will not make people Christians, or even better Christians.
Our only course of action is the one that we have always had: to preach the Word and to witness to its truth. And of course bathed with prayer. This is not God’s country anymore than Libya. We can not mistake the many blessings we have had in the past with the title: God’s Own Country.
Many blessings to you,
mike
Hello Mike: A Third Great Awakening is not only an option for us; it is promised in Holy Scripture. Ever read Jonathan Edwards’ Humble Attempt which inspired Carey and others to launch the Great Century of Missions. Edwards listed about a 100 verses that are prophecies/promises of visitations. What we fail to recognize is that we can be manipulated by cunning interpretations of the Bible. In this case, it is eschatology which has been used by folks from outside to manipulate, to distract, to divide, to deflect our efforts at prayer (after all, one will hardly pray for something, if they do not believe they have a promise for such) for such blessings. I can remember my ordaining pastor, Dr. Ernest R. Campbell, saying we could not have an awakening like they had in the 1700s, etc., but he either did not know or did not realize that the promises that were pleaded then are just as applicable now. In fact, when one considers the saying of our Lord in Mt. 24:31 to the effect that His angels will gather His elect from one end of THE heaven to the other (star travel?) plus I Chron. 16:15 about the keeping of His covenant to a thousand generations, it follows that we might be talking of undreamt possibilities, successes of the Gospel beyond our wildest imaginations. My pastor who ordained me, like his mentor, R.G. Lee, followed a certain pattern in eschatology; he was expecting a short, quick work. But the numbers of the redeemed do not bear this out, and when we consider the sources of such eschatology, we must realize that someone was trying to get Rome off the hook of being the Antichrist (not saying they are, though they did some things to deserve that the Waldensians should think so before the Reformation), and the effort was successful. Antichrist is really a spirit of substitution and rebellion (both ideas are implied in anti which preposition in the Greek can convey one idea or the other. The Moderates did not believe in substitution, and even most of our Conservatives do not realize the implications of it, e.g., the power is in the blood. Enough for now. God bless.
I live in America. I love my country. I know people who have died in service to this country, and honor them, and thank God for them. I pray for and support our troops who are defending this great country. I am a proud American, and want my children and grandchildren to live in a God-honoring, freedom-loving nation. I tend to support policy makers that share the same views.
I serve in a local, Bible preaching church. We love Jesus and point others to Him. We give to NAMB to plant churches; we give to IMB to spread the light of Christ; plus we support countless other mission opportunities.
No, Dr. Barber, my politics do not shape my theology. I take offense at such a notion. But it is because I seek to see God’s Name honored and exalted that I want to see this country that I live in have leaders that exalt and honor Him, first. I want to see policies enacted that will bless the Lord. Speak for yourself, sir, I think we need cultural warriors. We have sat silent way too long and allowed this country to sink into Sodom and Gomorrah. Where are the Jerry Falwells today, men with a spine of steel who will stand up in the public square and defend Judeau-Christian principles?
Dr. Moore can choose to preach “moral communitarianism” or whatever swill he propounds; I think it is high time the moral majority speak up!
OK, I don’t agree with every thing in Adventist teaching. I don’t agree with everything Ted Tripp (a Presbyterian) says either. I don’t see any protest over his inclusion. Dr Carson is seeking to lead this nation; he claims to love God and desires to honor Him in the realm of public policy making. Let him speak. Though we’re not adjunct professors at a seminary, I think our minds know how to filter.
If I were Brother Rice, I would not have bent to the will of a few that make up b21.