I love seminary. I’m a non-traditional student: I have a full-time secular job and take one class per semester, usually via the internet (curse you internet fees!). Because of my work and life situation, I can get my education while serving in my church, spending time with my family, and earning a living, all without going into debt. Times are changing and educational opportunities are expansive. I told you, I love seminary.
Every once in a while I’ll read an article or hear someone talk about what seminary didn’t teach them. The methods and reasons for writing such articles are varied. Some people are bitter that their educational experiences didn’t prepare them for a church split, a staff member’s infidelity, or the pressures that pastoral ministry puts on their family. Others are self-righteous, seeking to show that they have “succeeded” in the ministry without using Greek or Hebrew in their sermon preparation, following their homiletics’ professor’s guidance, or studying up on Church history. Still others are just trying to be helpful, to tear down false impressions of seminary education, or reminding people that there’s much more to learn than what an M.Div. can teach you.
Some of these articles have been helpful. Others have not. But I’ve yet to read the type of article that highlights the things that they couldn’t or wouldn’t have learned were it not for seminary. So I’ve decided to write one:
1. I couldn’t have received training from some of the best and brightest Southern Baptist leaders of today. I’ve studied theology under Bruce Ware, Stephen Wellum, and Russell Moore. I know that I could read Grudem’s or someone else’s systematic theology, but to be able to interact with the minds behind the books is a unique experience that lets me ask the questions the books don’t always answer. Although more and more educational content is being made available via the internet and iTunes U, it still doesn’t compare to being able to meet with a professor one-on-one to discuss something he’s written volumes on.
2. I couldn’t have studied the Biblical languages. Whereas I’ve learned that throughout Church history there have been plenty of people who were self-taught linguists, my own personal history has taught me that I will never be one. I’ve completed my Greek requirement, but Hebrew still looms in my future. With all the responsibilities I have between work, home, and church, I doubt I would have ever studied Greek apart from seminary, and what I’ve learned has been very valuable for how I approach a text of Scripture, even if I’m not doing my devotional time each day in the Greek New Testament.
3. I wouldn’t have interacted this much with other pastors and Bible teachers. Even in my internet classes I’ve gotten exposed to other Christians from different walks of life. My current ministry context is predominantly among Whites and Hispanics, and among that group very few are pastors. At seminary I’ve been able to meet church leaders who work with African-American, Chinese, Korean, and other groups. Their experiences and perspectives challenge me to acknowledge my own cultural biases and blind spots when it comes to studying the Scriptures and living out my faith.
4. I wouldn’t have read such a diversity of books. I like to read, but I don’t like to read everything. When your time (and finances) is limited, you have to pick carefully what you will spend hours looking at. Thus I would normally not spend much time with histories, early Church writings, Greek grammars, or surveys of Christian ethics. But when I’m taking a class, I don’t have that option. I have to read the required course materials, and by and large I’m spending time with authors, ideas, and subjects that I would normally pass over in favor of those I’m more familiar with.
5. I wouldn’t have written research papers. Honestly, who does this just for fun? But being required to write a thorough book review or a defense of some theological point sharpens the mind and challenges us to conduct more than just surface-level research, to communicate our findings clearly, and to write convincingly.
6. I wouldn’t have had access to such a great theological library. Even though I am not located on campus and can’t peruse the volumes on the shelves, I have been able to do so for the few on-campus classes I’ve been able to attend. The digital library at Southern is certainly growing as well. As a young guy with a small library of his own, it’s nice to be able to look at commentaries that I just can’t afford right now.
7. I wouldn’t have treasured my free time as much. Granted, I’m far from perfect on this, but those breaks between classes really highlight the necessity of spending a lot of time with my family. Some things just have to be done: I work each day, mow the front and back yard once a week, preach once in a while, and do homework almost every day. Sometimes it’s tempting to sit back on my electronic device or zone out on the television when I have a few minutes of down time, but when I have to “budget” my time as I do, I want to make sure that I’m spending time with my kids before they go to bed and with my wife before we do. I used to play video games and watch a lot more television before I started seminary classes, and I hate to think how I would spend my time if I wasn’t forced to manage it.
So there you have it. This isn’t a long list, and I’m sure I’m leaving something out, so please add your own thoughts about what you wouldn’t or couldn’t have done apart from seminary.
I’m in a similar situation but years behind you. I’m attending Boyce as I never went to college. However, with God changing my plans for my life I looked for options for classes while still working and serving in my church. Thankfully I can take online classes. I know I’m missing a certain element of being in the class room, but this is presently the only way I can take classes.
I hate that I even need to add that rider. I don’t feel yet like I’ve missed anything. I can take what I have learned in my classes and apply it immediately in my local church. I have years of relationships here, serve as a deacon, and teach youth. Can the church get by without me? Oh yes of course! Does it benefit the church, and me, to be together? I think so, and I certainly don’t mean this in any conceited fashion. God placed me here. When I complete seminary I have no desire to go anywhere else. I intend to stay here. The distance education is important to me to maintain that church relationship and stay under the authority of my Pastor and the accountability of fellow brothers and sisters.
Besides, with one week intensives, I can get the occasional fix of in person classes. Conference classes are also a great asset if chosen carefully. I am glad to learn from very gifted teachers and maintain my commitments to my family and my church family.
I’m at the college at Southwestern. I enjoy it as well! Man of my friends here and I are planning in going to Southern for our masters in a couple semesters. This was a really encouraging article! We are looking forward to it!
Hi Andrew, I plan on attending Southern after my undergrad. I love hearing that you sat under such Godly men. I have a question…I hear that Southern is just exploding right now. With that in mind, will I still be able to have conversations with professors and get what you got out of it if it gets much bigger in 2 years? Thanks
I think they will. Of course, when you suggest you get together at a restaurant, they’re more likely to accept. 😉
What would it be like if Paul had the Seminaries we have? I have read the Bible we say anyone can read and understand. It seems that our education process has made many to think a certain way. What if there were no Seminaries? What would the church be today? I believe in education, but I believe in the Word that anyone can read and come to the same conclusion. If we have churches and do not preach and teach expository we seldom disciple properly. To me, that is what is wrong with today’s church. Does the average Christian need to go to Seminary? We shouldn’t!
ANDREW,
in the course of your studies of Church history, if you do read the Fathers, don’t neglect the Eastern Fathers . . . the Cappodocian Fathers especially.
Eastern and Western Christianity both have their roots in Jerusalem, the first center of Christianity, and the shared wisdom of both East and West is a part of understanding the great Councils of the early Church
good luck with your studies
Thanks. On the Holy Spirit was one of my favorite books in that class. I believe it was written by Gregory of Nazianzus.
I would add, I would have never realized how much I could accomplish in a day, and how little sleep I actually need to make it. Good word.
How do you have time for seminary while coaching the Texans?
First time I’ve heard that one . . . .
Haha, that was pretty good.
In contrast, my seminary experience was not a happy one. I would start out feeling good in the morning, driving to the seminary, but as I drove and got closer I would began feeling bad. By the time I got there I often felt sick. When I left, I started feeling better and felt okay by the time I got home. However, my education experience was utterly different. I attended 10 schools, earned 5 degrees and work on number 6. One of the secrets of knowledge is research. I began a research project in Baptist history, setting out to prove the Landmark view of the church, when I was attending the fifth school on my list, Lincoln Univ,., from which I would graduate with 155 semester hours (I also would add number six, going one semester to the Univ. of Missouri, Columbia). That research project would continue for at least 6 years and has not ended to this day, though I do not take notes like I did then. Anyway it gave me 3000 notecards, written on both sides and some 6000 pages of writing. What a learning experience! And attending all of 10 schools plus teaching in three, Morehead State (from which I earned a degree), South Carolina State, and Richmond Community College (I also taught seminary extension for 2 years for the Gaston Baptist Assn.). Teaching a course like systematic theology really enlarges one’s grasp of the teachings of the word of God. And you school try teaching Isaiah and Hebrews. Wow. Also during all of this time of schools, etc., I would pastor four churches, be a social worker in Mo. and Ky. for 3 years, a professional counselor in a High school for 3 years. My most expensive degree was the M.A. in counseling from Liberty; it was also the hardest, the one my wife thought would give me a heart attack. Must quit. Got other things calling now.
I’m in education, so continuing education at the graduate level has been ongoing for me, both on-line and in the classroom. I’ve attended four different schools. Southwestern Seminary was a great experience, it was like a two and a half year revival for me. I learned a lot, and rarely felt that a class was impractical, or a waste of time. The one exception to that was the worship class I took.
Andrew,
Keep up the work and love of learning. I likewise did Seminary while working full-time, being a husband/dad, and also serving in church. It took me 10-years, but got it done.
There were some hiccups along the way. I started as an satellite Southern student at the center in Harrisburg, PA. Never heard of it, well that is because 43 credits to the M Div, the plug got pulled from Southern due to financial issues. So then what was I to do?
Much of the attitude I got from the Southern crowd was that if you truly have faith and are truly called you should quit your job (career in my case) and go Southern full time. Well with three kids, wife and mortgage I was not filling that love.
Well God was good and he had another path, some Baptist State Convention staff helped me get in with Bakke Graduate Universality (www.bgu.edu) in Seattle, WA. Bakke was all about adult and distant learners. And in 2011, I graduated!
To the disagreement of many at Southern at the time (the only way to truly learn was to have the Southern experience), for me I learned best by doing it while living work life and church life. Way to go, and keep on the work. Doing the classes while living life and applying what you are learning while serving in church is most commendable.
Garret Rain
Middletown, PA
Seminary at Southern changed my life. The impact of Dr. Moore, Dr. Wellum, Dr. Haykin, and Dr. York was amazing. I would have never skipped seminary. Also, I use my Greek a whole lot more than I ever imagine and the diversity of books and views really helps with discernment and working with people.
Andrew Wencel,
This is an excellent post. Thank you for writing it. Little would I add to your observations other than to emphasis again the fact that while in seminary we have opportunity to make life-time bonds with people who have committed themselves to serving Christ in His Kingdom. These relationships naturally include other students. Unique to the seminary experience, these relationships include faculty, staff, and administration also. I know of nothing that has enriched my personal journey with Christ greater than having made strong relationship bonds with other seminarians other than the Lord Jesus Himself. I thank God for my college and seminary years . . . and there were many. It was “a long, hard ride” to quote David Allan Coe, but I do not regret a minute of it.
Now, for that of which I cannot resist. There are some great seminaries out there and I have sampled a few. However, Southern Baptists have the best seminaries in the world and of the best, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary located in beautiful Wake Forest, NC is the best-of-the-best.
SEBTS is the CRIMSON TIDE of seminaries.
GO SOUTHEASTERN and ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!
I would make a TX A&M related statement, but Johnny Football has us all cringing a little bit……Seems the Heisman Trophy didn’t have much influence in the character area………
He’s a character!
LOL! That he is! But not a good one, it seems.
Now CB calling SEBTS the Crimson Tide of the seminaries is bound to make my son, a gung ho Tar Heel fan and alumni of the same not feel good. Besides, it is in the Tar Heel state and more Tar Heels go there than any other state for obvious reasons. So I would have to say, though I am no Tar Heel alumni, that it is the Tar Heel of our seminaries just like SWBTS is the Longhorn (being in the area of the Univ. of Texas) of seminaries…. But I can understand how loyalty to one’s favored school can lead a person to make such mistakes.
Which makes Paige Patterson the Mac Brown of theological education!
If SEBT is the UNC of seminaries…does that mean you dont have to go to class to graduate? Does alumni pay for rental cars and stuff?
If I was a young man, thinking about Seminary, my first choice would be Mid America Baptist Seminary in Memphis, TN. Great school….great, great school. Besides, just think about the BBQ you could eat!
Then, my second choice would be Southwestern Baptist Seminary in Ft. Worth, Texas. They sound like they’ve got some great things going on, down there. The only bad thing about this is that you’d have to live in Dallas/Ft. Worth….the horrible traffic….and the Dallas Cowboys.
My third choice would be New Orleans Baptist Seminary. I like Chuck Kelly, and some of the Profs they have their are great guys. Also, just think about the Cajun food you could eat! And, the beignet’s…I mean, BEIGNET’s!!
David
Vol,
If the choice is made by B-B-Q, it must be:
1). Mid-American for Memphis B-B-Q
2). Beeson for Birmingham B-B-Q
3). Southwestern for Ft Worth B-B-Q
4). Anywhere else for B-B-Q
Dead Last). Southeastern for any North Carolina B-B-Q taste like pickled dog food.
But for the best-of-the best of seminaries, it is SEBTS hands down.
Sorry fellows. The rest are not even close. Like I stated earlier, SEBTS is the CRIMSON TIDE of seminaries. Just stay away from the B-B-Q in the Triangle and you will have a great experience in theological education.
One more thing, forget FOOTBALL. Nothing in the state except ACC PeeWee Nations. if you like sports the Mud Cats are a fair Minor League Baseball team. But just forget FOOTBALL, otherwise, you will just be depressed. It is pitiful. Just pitiful.
“Pickled dog food”….lol…ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ….what a great, descriptive way to talk about North Carolina BBQ. It does have a twang to it….dont it?
David
Blasphemy!!!!
What about MBTS and the great Kansas City BBQ? I am personally a Dry Rub myself (sauce, especially a lot of it, just ruins the meat), but I do admit that KC area has some great BBQ. Arthur Bryant’s, Gates, Jack Stack…
Great B-B-Q doesn’t need a lot of sauce, if any. If a B-B-Q joint puts their sauce on the side, they’re proud of their work. If the slather it all over the meat, they must be trying to hide something!
They have B-B-Q in Birmingham?
“. . . B-B-Q in Birmingham?”
What kind of question is that???
Robert Vaughn,
Would you by any chance be from some place like Mars, or Saturn, or maybe even some unknown Galaxy . . . or maybe even a stranger place like New York City?
Robert Vaughn, if it is a meat of any kind, there are folks in Birmingham who can barbeque it and make it melt in your mouth. Did you ever see the movie, “Fried Green Tomatoes”? Yep and that too.
CB, I don’t have any experience with Bar-B-Q in Birmingham, good or bad. But I have had trouble finding Bar-B-Q when traveling east on I-20, hence the question.
Haven’t seen the movie, but I’ve eaten the fried green tomatoes at Irondale Cafe.
I grew up in Arizona, and went to seminary at Southwestern. Isn’t Memphis barbeque pulled pork? By definition, at least out west,” that ain’t barbeque.” I don’t know who does the food service in the cafeteria at Southwestern these days, but when I was a student there in the late 80’s, the ribs and brisket they served were surprisingly almost as good as you could get down at the Stockyards.
If I had it to do all over again, after having attended three secular graduate schools as well as Southwestern, I’d probably still choose Seminary Hill in Ft. Worth. My wife and I didn’t really care much for living in Ft. Worth, or in the Metroplex for that matter. The weather was awful, we had two vehicles pelted with softball sized hail, and had a couple of too-close calls with tornadoes, it was blazing in the summer, and humid, and, well, we just didn’t care for it. But the combination of Southern Baptists caring enough about their future church leadership to provide a quality education for them without their accumulating massive debt, and the quality of instruction from the staff there was too good to pass up.
The only other possibility, in hindsight, would have been either Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Deerfield, IL or Moody Bible Institute.
Now, I’m a big fan of cooking everything, including the oink, on a hog and if it’s right, it’s bbq–
But Memphis does put out some fine ribs.
However, there are some folks from here in Arkansas that have gone over and won that little pig-cooking competition on that side of the river. So we still eat quite well over here.
I would still choose SEBTS even if it is the UNC of our seminaries. First, it has changed from when I attended. Second, one of the faculty members is a fellow student from long ago, Dr. Maurice Robinson, one of the most brilliant scholars I ever met. He taught himself to read Greek and passed the Advanced Standing with an “A” and got credit for first year Greek. The Dean then opposed him getting the credit, but Maurice appealed to the faculty policies committee and they reversed the dean, pointing out that the catalog did not call for a student to have had Greek. Next year that requirement was in there. The whole deal sort of reminds me of John Brown of Haddington who taught himself to read Greek, and he was accused of witchcraft. Don’t remember the details of how he outwitted that charge, but he did. I took the Advanced Standing in Church History, passed it with an A and got 4 hrs. credit in first year church history, but had the good fortune to never say I had never had Church History (My knowledge came from 6 years of research in church history, and the fact that the professor asked a few general questions in church history which I answered and then he zeroed in on his specialty in which he wrote articles published in the Church History Journal, “The Albigensians of Southern France in the 12th century.” And, since, he followed the lead of Stephen Runciman of Cambridge University (author of the Medieval Manichee), I had the professor. he had never studied Zoe Oldenburg, a female Russian author living in France who had done research on the scene, so to speak (better sources). Anyway the professor wound up asking me questions so he could learn what was the newest and latest in the field. I would later write a paper for that professor on the subject, “Aristotle’s Unmoved Mover and the Augustinian Concept of God,” pointing out that the latter had not imported the former’s view into Christian Theology. but that his views on God’s immutability came directly from the Bible. The year before at the Univ. of South Carolina, I had written a similar paper on “Aristotle’s Unmoved Mover and John Calvin’s Concept of God,” pointing out likewise that Calvin did not get his immutability of God from Aristotle but from the Bible. Research really has its advantages. A Black professor, one of the really great ones, Lorenzo J. Greene, encouraged me to start a research project which I did in the Spring of ’63, I continued until ’69 and wrote a thesis out of it for the M.A. at Morehead State. Later I wrote other papers out of it like, “The Genius of Orthodoxy: Eldresses,” explaining how Sandy Creek could have eldresses in the 1700s in a period when they would not have questioned the Bible as the word of God, basing it on the superior intellectualisms of the word of God to enable and empower orthodox believers to be balanced, flexible, creative, constant, and magnetic. Remember, folks, if the Book is inspired by Omniscience, then it must reflect a depth of profundity of wisdom commensurate with such a source, and it does. That is why I am a qualified complementarian and an egalitarian as to the nature of the local church, congregational in church government, with the government being with the body, not the ministers. As Jesus said in Mt.18, take it to the church, the congregation, the ekklesia, not the ministers.
I also loved my time in seminary at SWBTS. I’d agree with David W. about NOBTS & Mid-America. I also enjoyed my time at ETBU.
While at college or seminary, make all the friends you can among the students. You will run into them again throughout the rest of your ministry. You will be surprised at those who make it, those who endure to the end, and those who fall by the wayside.
Get to know your professors and learn from them (you don’t always have to agree with them). You will enjoy those relationships the rest of your life. Enjoy the lectures; I usually enjoyed it most when the professor got off the subject and would tell of his personal views or ministry.
College and seminary are great times in the life of a minister.
David R. Brumbelow
If I were going to go to seminary I would definitely attend either Southwestern or Mid America. You can’t get any better faculty than at Southwestern, but I also like Mid America because although they are SBC affiliated they are ran independently.
Mid-America is as Southern Baptist as it can be made short of being on the
Cooperative Program gravy train. All the profs are active members of an SBC church, witness regularly, and the school’s support comes from SBC churches and individuals.
I join David Brumbelow’s remarks and wonder how much we are losing as many ministers eschew resident seminary work to do mostly online.
“I join David Brumbelow’s remarks and wonder how much we are losing as many ministers eschew resident seminary work to do mostly online.”
I share the same sentiment as you guys, William Thornton and David R. Brumbelow.
That’s interesting, because being someone who ran out of funding before he was able to finish in residence at a seminary, I wonder how much we lose because people eschew getting any training at all, since they can’t fund the resident work.
A good project for an adventurous Southern Baptist blogger would be to examine the situation at our six seminaries relative to their accepting student loans as tuition: how many students receive such loans, what amounts, and what percentages, if any, of seminary revenue comes from loans.
Another good project would be to examine tuition increases relative to inflation. Is a seminary degree more expensive in real dollars than it was a generation ago? How much more?
SEBTS says they do not accept such loans but I haven’t looked into it.
I’m loving seminary right now, sitting in the class room waiting for the seminar to begin.
At MBTS–which is the school to go to if we’re judging by BBQ… 😀
I also love Southwestern because of their commitment to evangelism.
Read about their work in Cuba and Latin America:
http://bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=40772
David R. Brumbelow