I was shocked this week when I found evidence of an underground, black-ops effort to silence Baptist bloggers who criticize the SBC in any way.
We got our new “Yellow Book” phone book this week. For years, Southern Hills Baptist Church has been listed under “Churches: Baptist” and “Churches: Southern Baptist.” But now, this year, a few months after I become the editor of SBC Voices, this ad appears in the 2011 Yellow Book.
That’s right, folks. Powerful forces have hacked into the secure systems of Yellow Book and secretly kicked my church out of the SBC and into the African Methodist Episcopal church. I know very little about the AME, but I know that this has all the signs of a conspiracy.
Know this, I will not be silenced. I will continue to speak out when I believe it is necessary. Unfortunately, we will be renaming this site “AME Voices” and I will not be posting until I find about more about what is going on in the AME. But we will NOT be silenced!
I am warning Howell Scott, since he has been the author of some inflammatory posts, his church might be next on the BIA (Baptist Intelligence Agency) (and no, it is NOT an oxymoron) hit list!
Now, for the tough part. Crack agents here are trying to figure out who is at the bottom of this conspiracy. We believe it is either Paige Patterson or Wade Burleson. We will let you know as soon as we uncover the head of this pernicious secret organization.
Believe me, folks – we will get to the bottom of this!
I’m spreading the word, Dave! We’ll have you back in the SBC before Harold Camping can say “Oops!” You just wait and see!
Squirrel
I never thought of Harold Camping. Good thinking, Squirrel. You are hired (at double the salary I get) to head up the SBC (AME?) Voices Investigatory Services.
That’s the best hire I think you’ve made. Nothing like putting The Squirrel in charge of finding the nuts in this situation.
Just a note: a squirrel loses about half the nuts they collect because they forget where they put them. Just thought you should know.
My wife got me reading material for the bathroom as a Christmas present.
Frank L, On post #5, I’m a little thick nowadays so would you mind breaking the code here for me as I can’t get it out of my mind that you’re critizising some of perhaps my musings as bathroom material – which is fine as long as I understand. If you didn’t mean that then we can go from there .
Jack if you are so thin-skinned as to look for a fight anywhere you can find one — no place for us to in a conversation.
Quite frankly, I never read your post and wasn’t commenting on anything you said. It just so happens I recently read an insignificant fact about a squirrel.
I really do know I’m not thinned skinned. I was making sure nothing was left on the table that I didn’t understand. You said one time that you got locked up for carrying a sign against abortion, so I knew you had the mettle to not hint at something. I don’t hint or “look” for a fight either. But if one becomes inevitable I try to choose the time and place. Thank you for clearing this up for me.
I’m just not sure where to go to come back on “losing about half the nuts.”
It’s impolitic to make that about a mental hospital, and perhaps to rude to make that about seminary professors.
Maybe the SBC Pastor’s Conference? I’m just not sure, but there’s a nugget of humor in there somewhere 🙂
A little boy in a cowboy costume complete with hat ,chaps and plastic gun saddles up to the ice cream counter and orders a chocolate nut sunday. The waitress asks,’Do you want crushed nuts ?”. And the little wrangler pulls out his gun and replies,” would you like your ears blown off ?”. That’s kinda nutzy and funny and I can understand it – yes because it’s “at my level” I know.
O.K. it’s Story Time. First- AME Churches were/are very active in Civil Rights. Read that about six times and then know they know the correct God and that is our common denominator. There is an AME on a back road that I take that changes their marquee often enough that I always look. Today they were cooking in their kitchen and the sign outside didn’t say anything about AME ONLY. I’m hungry. I know the food is going to be good. I’m driving my old, but nice ’78 Ford, Jacked-up, pick-up , with dual loud mufflers , with my NRA sticker, USA Terrorist Hunting Permit sticker, VA Terrorist HUNTING PERMIT sticker, NY TERRORIST HUNTING PERMIT sticker, PA TERRORIST HUNTING PERMIT sticker, an AIR LINE PILOTS ASSN sticker, there’s a nice handgun in the truck and while I’m clean and presentable – I’m white ( w/ white hair) and I say red-neck in most ways. I must have driven back and forth passed this church at least 3 times. I told myself that I didn’t have a hair on my head if I didn’t GO IN – and just park. I did. Nobody in the parking lot to either “welcome me ” or pull their own gun , knife, razor and run me out. So I got out, locked the truck because of any children and the firearm inside. It gets better and worse and better. There was a lady cooking at an old cast iron, big gas stove with huge pieces of chicken frying. I “yes mam’ed” her and told her I didn’t eat much. She gave me the biggest piece on the stove. I got the rest and sat close by at a round table which was empty – waved to the guy sitting at a small table by the exit who was collecting the money. I thought about joking him by telling him I was a fast runner but got rid of that idea. I big guy came over sat down didn’t want to shake although I was eating and started to ask probing questions like where I went to church. I told him at that great, big, huge and new Baptist church up the road that owed a lot of money. He didn’t think that was funny. He must have been the local trouble maker as shortly a couple other guys came over sat down and rescued me. I eat, finish , pay, thank the lady cooking and now there are lots of children playing in the parking lot and in front of my truck. I stepped up on the foot rest of jacked up truck looked around and decided to not tell somebody else’s children what to do – like move – so I backed up and put my hitch into a nice Chrysler grill that I never saw. Everybody must have been watching me as the doors on the church opened like a fire drill. I saw the first big guy at the table and went to him and told him the story and that I didn’t pull out forward because of the children. He told the right people and got me “off the hook”. I met the lady that was driving that car and explained that I was insured but I’d rather pay her the cash and I didn’t need a written estimate etc. She wasn’t fast about it and I saw her at the church later and said I was glad I hadn’t overlooked a child playing behind my truck. I’m waiting for another sign at that church that advertises “lunch”. I’m going in but not in a red necked truck. I see the pastor of that church at another lunch counter now and then . Dave , you’ve been thrown a lemon, but there’s a good chance you can make a lot of lemonade. Don’t pass up the chance to try. She sent me every estimate and I paid her with a “bank check” – fast. AME folks have paid the price, don’t have a chip on their shoulder somehow and cook really good chicken !
On the upside, you may have some folks coming in looking for an AME who instead hear the Gospel proclaimed with saving power.
All in the Providence of God.
It could happen. 🙂
Well, there was that one secret meeting…..but I thought I heard the word Anglo Saxon. 🙂
So, you were in on it!
Well if you call being on my hands and knees with a cup in hand listening at the door involved. 🙂
Be glad you weren’t placed under “Cult”. 🙂
I’m trying to decide how to respond to this – funny, mean, vindictive.
I think I’ll just say – that was funny!
🙂 Funny is right. I can’t hardly spell the word vindictive. I had to copy the spelling from you. 🙂
Of course I am just joking. When the yellow pages makes a mistake, they don’t mess around do they. 🙂
Dave:
You may have a legal remedy here, but I don’t know. Surely you should get some of the church’s money back.
I read a case in law school where a business had the slogan “Get it in Gear”, but when the yellow pages ad came out it said, “Get it in rear”.
I think that business won some money.
Results in your area may differ.
Check with a local lawyer.
Louis, Do you think it is that serious Louis or are you actually joking ?
I guess Louis is looking that answer up. So I’ll say that this appears to be a simple mistake. But as this progresses it will become more evident that more of the general public is aware of AME churches and their history than some that are in the church business and that’s not admirable. That might be like someone on the Harley motorcycle business not ever having heard of a Yamaha or knowing the state of affairs in the industry; or maybe a professional pilot who has never heard of Com-Air or knows what a DC 9-80 is and the state of affairs. But it’s not a requirement but an opportunity to meet and perhaps bridge a gap. Like at JFK one day I walked over to a Russian airliner and after a security person talked to me went up and spoke with the pilots. That’s what I meant by making lemonade out of this situation. If that would offend someone then speak out. Life’s Good if you don’t let it pass you.
I think we are all smiling a little, Jack.
Dave, I hope so. Take your Bible and your phone book to the head AME honcho and have a laugh because they maybe are having the same conversation you are. Sioux City being on the Missouri depending on the age of the AME churchs might have been part of the underground railroad. That was serious stuff. The spirituals like “As We Gather At The River” sung loud and clear outside was a signal that they could get out that evening by the river route. This stuff is as interesting to me as Jewish kids squirrled away to a Catholic Orphanage. We have homes here with double walls that people can fit inbetween and not be discovered- part of the railroad. Everybody knows who they want to call and your phone number is right there – and name = and address. Take a chance.
As a Black Historian, I can tell you there is every reason to be proud of being listed under AME’s designated and disguished cognomen. Of course, being Baptist, I can understand you preference for being listed under that term. In any case, I wrote a prospectus for a doctoral dissertation at Columbia Univ., NYC, in the Summer of ’71, and a major point of it was to show the superior exemplification of the Christian Faith that was produced among the Black folks in the days of slavery. Unfortunately, I was not able to return to complete that doctorate…though I did do my Doctor of Ministry project at SEBTS on Christian Love and Race Relations. More recently, Eric Metaxas’ biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer revealed that the African Americans made such an impression on that German Lutheran Martyr that he took the spirit of their adherence to the Bible and their Negro Spirituals (which ranks as some of the great music of the world) back to German. Their spirit of faithfulness and creativity in the worship of Christ inspired Bonhoeffer in his labors in the Confessional Church that he established and in his faithfulness during his incarceration and execution….If most people knew what I know about the history of Black folks that would be moved beyond words. While I, too, am a Baptist by conviction, and know my denomination to have been severely wanting in the area of race relations, I am still comforted by the fact that most Blacks are Baptists. And the church I attend has a number of Black folks in its membership. This morning three Black people who have been attending for some time joined our church along with six other people. Praise God for Black folks or African Americans as some prefer that term.
Dr Willingham – Good information. I’ve only visited, bought books, some just pictures and lived a varied lifestyle; but I have gone over and re-lived each book and experience with my son so that no one can mislead him. I might have educated him too well but I’m comforted to know he’s on the correct side of these issues and that’s worth a lot – something like Christianity and being on the correct side in that regard.
Dave,
As a member of an AME church, perhaps you were born a poor black child. Your unusual interest in phone books makes this connection even clearer, as the link below explains:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOTDn2A7hcY
Rick Patrick, I always wondered if the real deal will show up but you lose me with ” your unusual interest in phone books ” which by the way has kept this conversation alive a few days now. Good video but now tell us the real truth about AME churchs and what the rest of us don’t know.
Jack, I am not AME. I was suggesting (playfully) that Dave was a member of this predominantly African American denomination. That, along with the phone book issue, simply reminded me of Steve Martin’s classic scene in “The Jerk.”
This thing couldn’t come at a worse time! There were rumors (which I started) that I was in line to become the next president of the IMB.
I’m qualified – I went on a mission trip last year.
Now, with this dirty trick that was played on me and my church, I probably have no chance of being nominated.
DRAT!
Hey! You could actually be the right fit for what both sides of this issue want. You are a minister(for those who think a minister should be Prez) and you went on a mission trip(For those who believe a missionary fits the bill). Both are satisfied. Who could ask for anything more?
Uh…yeah.
Why would this hurt your nomination for IMB President? It shows your ability to work with other faiths, like Southern Baptists, given your willingness to be here with us at SBCVoices.
Since I now consistently hang up on the Yellow Page sales people when they call, we’ll probably be listed under something that’s actually bad next yellow pages around here.
By the way, to prove the conspiracy, remember that in some parts of the country, the SBC Yellow Pages are the “Real” Yellow Pages.
I think that’s down in the old-line states, too….
Or have they renamed the phone company again and I’m behind in my joke?
Hmmmm….
Dave:
Maybe your church should seek “dual alignment” with the AME and the SBC. Then you could run for SBC President as the first Pastor of a church affiliated with an African American group.
Interesting – great idea, Louis.
Gee, I went on a mission trip 31 years ago this past last of Jan and first of February. Not even a single thought of ever getting to be head of IMB…even though I voted for the Bible every time. The folks that got the top slots could care less for the poor slobs on the bottom who might not measure up to their stick of straightness..which turns out to be just as crooked as ours when put up against our Lord’s truly straight stick of character and conduct. The Pharisees can be just as troublesome as the Sadducees, and they both get together to do the Lord in while the true believers all forsook Him and fled. I trust I am in the third group, but to flee in fear is not helpful to assurance.
Dave, Make Lemonade !
Dave, Is this the first you have been aware of the AME denomination ? Do you feel uncomfortable with you or your church being associated with a black denomination that has a rich history and worships the true God. Have you ever heard of the “Underground Railroad” before this ? I feel these questions are fair and straight forward with no hidden agenda. Lemonade
No, I am familiar with the AME. Not very, but I am familiar.
What about the other questions ?
Dave, Are these questions out of line ?
This whole conversation reminds me of how many Blacks crossed over into the white community. One slave on a plantationin Arkansas (sent their by his master and father on a plantation in Tn) was told by the oerseer to hit the road and never mention that some of his ancestry was Black. Such things did happen. I had a descendant of Sally Hemmings in one of my classes of American History that I taught at South Carolina State College from ’70-’72. I also had two students from a town in Fla. where John Trammel, the cook for Jesse W. James’ gang. He was a two gun man, and I read later the fellow who shot the sub for one of the Jesse’s in St. Joe, Mo. A real charade (there were at least 5 Jesse James and at least two of them had brothers named Frank and at least two, possibly three Jesses had gangs that robbed banks, etc., to raise money for the reviving of the Confederacy. My great grandpappy worked for that Jesse W. on a ranch in New Mexico and didn’t believe he got shot in St Joe (Wonder why? Could it have been for the the fact that he worked for him before and after the fact?). That black James Gang memer was quite a shootist and gunman, and then there was the black fellow from S. Carolina who had an Oxford education while still a slave, cause his master’s sons, thought that their slaves should be able to do what they did. And, of course, stangely, there was a black man near Orangeburg, SC., who was married to a white woman and over 200 slaves. Life was awfully contradictory back then, including white Southern Baptist who believed in the Bible as the word of God and who also believed it taught and justified slavery until God took away in judgment the finest flower of manhood of the South and put a cannon ball in the leading preacher’s grave for saying Baptists would fight in defense of slavery.
I intend no position on Right or Wrong for anyone to get unglued over. I only know that Life’s pain and suffering as well as peace and prosperity knows no boundaries and all its experiences can be shared over a handshake with Christ as the common bond. I’m exceeding my abilities here to express myself as I was almost a high school dropout but I respect your experiences and your “Real” Doctorate and Theology as someone to emulate. I never have won a popularity contest and I’m sure you see why. Good Travels. I respect Dave’s not answering my questions, but I greatly respect his not cancelling the Blog. I’ve always been bothered by what I don’t know but I’ve never, ever been bothered by asking to find the answers. And I’ve received so much help from so many different kinds of people that made me whatever I am that I don’t “appreciate”, saying it mildly, people causing others problems for rotten reasons.
I Googled “Underground Railroad ” in Iowa and was pleasantly surprised to find that the National Park Service has taken over some of the official “Stations” there and opened them to the public. Mayhaps someone from an AME in Sioux City wold be gracious enough to provide a speaking tour. I’ll lock the basement door after you all have gone down and I have thrown some pots and pans down the stairs . Now that’s funny ! Don’t straighten up to fast or you’ll hit your head(s).
In 1970 I moved to Orangeburg, S.C. to teach History at South Carolina State College. It was quite an experience. Black folks of the South are closer to White folks of the South than they are to Blacks up North, and the same goes for White folks. I definitely found that I had more in common with Black folks from South than I did with White folks from up North. There are really some great Christians and great people among Blacks just as there are among Whites. The same goes for bad people. They exist in both groups. That’s where we who preach the Gospel come in. It is our task to win them to Christ with the truth, I have attended 10 schools above the secondary level, one of those schools being Lincoln University, where I had the opportunity to study under one of the great Black Historians, Dr. Lorenzo J. Greene. He is mentioned in the bibliography section for chapter 8 on slavery in colonial New England by John Hope Franklin as the authority on slavery in that area and period. I had Dr. Greene for three courses in small classes and received as did the other students personal attention. You can’t get that sometimes even in graduate school in some of the bigger state institutions. He helped me immeasurably. Later I would take an M.A. in Intellectual History from Morehead in Ky and be elected to membership in Phi Alpha Theta – the International Honor Society of Historians. I thank God for my experience with Black people, African Americans. I remember the one time I surprised Dr. Greene. I was teaching at South Carolina State, and I attended the Association for the Study of Negro Life and History (Now The African American Historians Association). Somehow or another I would up setting at one of the tables of the Executive Board for dinner (a member met me outside and invited me, saying, “There is plenty of room – not every one will make it”). Dr. Greene walked in the door right to me, and he looked shocked (I had not seen him in 4 yrs., since my days at Lincoln in Mo.). “Mr Willingham, ” he asked, what in the world are you doing here?” I could entertain you all with some interesting stories of Black Americans. I thank God for my experiences with them. I remember winning one to Christ from Nagodoces (sp?), Texas in the spring of ’59. I had a pastor from ’97-2000 who had been won by a Black Christian on an American Warship in the Gulf of Mexico. He was going to have that fellow come and speak at that church then, but he was unable to get it worked out. God grant us all a great awakening, and let us win the whole earth to Christ and every soul in it beginning with our generation and continuing for another 999 generations in order to fulfill the promises of God to Abraham of a seed as innumerable as the stars of heaven, the sand of the sea, and the dust of the earth.
Dr. Willingham, Amen & Amen to what you just said. I had to keep going back while reading not just to keep the facts straight in your story but your writing caused me flashbacks of good poor black people that helped me in much less formal ways than what you were helped but not less caring ways. That trip in a few minutes traveled 60 years. Thanks for ride. And when I owe – I pay.
Thank you Brother Wolford, but the praise goes to the Lord and to those Black Americans who have exemplified the best of the American Spirit in their response to Sovereign Grace.
Dr. Willingham, At the risk of seeming rude, You are including all those Christians that are sick, poor and uneducated – right – like me .
A trinket for David, A fellow Iowan named John L. Lewis was born in Lucas Iowa in 1880 today. I have a video tape of him as the President of the United Mine Workers of America standing up in the U.S. Capitol which was then heated by coal and loudly proclaiming to Congress who had a war on their hands, that if they, Congress, would guarantee his men and wives and children a roof over their heads, and enough food to eat then he would guarantee them all the coal they needed. It was settled then and there. I wonder what faith he was.
Answer : His immigrant parents were Welsh and 71.9 % of them were Christian.
I have no idea if this is serious, or a joke, stumbled here looking for southern baptist info. But the yellow pages placing your church under AME instead of Baptist, is a big deal to you? Nobody even uses the phone book these days. People look on the net for churches. Other than phone books being nothing but junk body bothers with, what is the issue here? You are likely the only person that noticed it.
I sort of thought I made it clear this was a joke.
Dave, A “joke” is “created” and “perpetrated”. Who would have the authority to print a “joke” in the Yellow Pages. Without that answer it becomes an ” accident ” and that’s what I believe it was and is – no more, no less.