As an Iowa Baptist, I can tell you that there are two Southern Baptist ministries that really make a difference in our neck of the woods. No one here cares a lick about who is elected president of the SBC, or about the NAMB restructuring or the IMB search committee. If you offered a million dollars to anyone in my church to name the president of the SBC or NAMB, no one except the three staff pastors and our DOM would have a chance to collect. If anyone in my church knows who Tom Eliff is, I would be shocked. Iowa people, with the fewest of exceptions, simply don’t care about what is going on in the SBC at large. We’re not Southern (we are nominally excluded from the inner circle) and few of them were Baptist before they joined our church.
But we care about World Changers and we care about Disaster Relief (DR). Those ministries have been remarkably successful around here. World Changers comes to Sioux City every year and Southern Baptists now have credibility with the city governments and in the community because of the work that has been done. And Iowa benefited greatly from the DR work done by Southern Baptists in the Great Floods of 1993 and 2009 that nearly wiped out parts of our state. S0uthern Baptist Disaster Relief not only made a huge difference, but it opened great ministry opportunities here. There is a DR chainsaw trailer in our church parking lot. One of my associate pastors has been on DR trips to Florida, Louisiana, Texas and all over the Midwest. Not only have we ministered to a LOT of people, but DR has been a unifying force for Southern Baptist work in Iowa.
In the last couple of years, NAMB has made changes to both of these ministries. The changes to World Changers have most definitely NOT made that ministry more effective here. And the recent changes to the Disaster Relief may have the same effect as those.
World Changers used to come in on Saturday, attend SBC churches in the region on Sunday and prepare for Monday. Monday morning they were up and at it and the work they accomplished was amazing. Now, they travel in on Monday, start on Tuesday and have no opportunity to have contact with the churches. It probably doesn’t matter in Bible Belt churches, but it really made an impression on folks when dozens of young folks showed up on Sunday morning ready to minister. Now, that blessing is gone.
From what we have been told, this was done in part to save money and make more effective use of the summer staff. For us, this has resulted in the World Changer Ministry here being a little less effective than it was, with less church involvement and less time to touch the larger community.
Now, they are changing things in DR. I hope that the changes they are making in DR will not be as damaging as the changes they made in World Changers. But there is a lot of fear out there.
I got an email today from a man who is heavily involved in DR. I know who he is, but I am not going to use his name here. His letter is hardly a hit-piece. It is balanced and fair. But I think it is best to protect his identity. He read the discussion we had last week and wrote me with his perspective on it.
A Letter from a Disaster Relief Leader
Dave,
I will give you my take on things and try and stick to the facts as I know them or have been told. I must say, however, that I am not without prejudice as some of the people that were let go in this process were people I considered friends, having worked with them in different DR situations. I will try to stay as objective as possible and give both sides as I know them.
First of all, for Disaster Relief to be involved in Church Planting is not a new idea. For a number of years now the leaders from the different states and NAMB have looked for ways in which the work of Disaster Relief could be used more effectively for Kingdom expansion and possible church planting. As the young man from ND stated in your blog, “I can’t find or think of any way that you can credibly “support an evangelistic church planting process” as a part of disaster relief.” And, “Disasters are not a place for church planting! People who have gone through the trauma of a disaster don’t need a new church, they need basics like food, shelter, possibly clothing or others supplies. They certainly need spiritual support, but the work of a chaplain in a disaster setting is completely different than the work of a pastor in a church.” I believe Jeff is both right and wrong in what he says.
In the immediate aftermath of a Disaster the emphasis is on the physical, emotional and spiritual needs of those affected by the Disaster as Jeff stated. However, all Southern Baptist Disaster Relief are encouraged to share the gospel, both through their actions in caring for the people but also in the sharing of their faith as God opens doors. We have to be careful to avoid “cramming it down their throats” or appearing that our helping them is in any way dependent on how they respond to us or what we say. For example, if a chainsaw unit goes to a home to remove trees, the first thing they try and do is to introduce themselves to the homeowner, tell who they are and what they will be doing for them. They may pray with them at that time, after the work is done or both. However, during the time the team is working on the property, many times the family will come outside, if able, and members of the team will visit with them. Some times during these conversations they will have the opportunity to share more of why they are there and this can lead to deeper spiritual conversations. A lot of what they do is to allow the affected person to share their story and begin to process it. The same sort of thing happens in feeding line, water purification unit, child care units or any other type of unit.
As crews make contact with people and have opportunity to minister to them, they are to report back at the end of the day about their contacts and make our contact slips for later follow-up. It is with this later follow up, that the Church Planting can be brought into the process. If the affected people live in an area where there are other SBC churches, the information is suppose to be shared with them for later follow-up. What has happened in recent years is that we have had major disasters in areas in which there is not SBC church and the DR leadership in consultation with other departments at NAMB have been looking for ways to more effectively follow up with people in these areas with an eye to planting churches building on what the DR volunteers have done previously.
Last year DR volunteers made over 75,000 ministry contactS and presented the gospel over 25,000 times and with the exception of Haiti most of the DR events were not huge in nature compared to many years. They have been trying to emphasis the need to follow-up after the event either through a local church or bringing in people to follow-up and possibly start some type of Bible Study ultimately leading to a new church.
The changes that have taken place since Dr Ezell came to the leadership is where there has been some disconnect and cause for questioning and wondering what will be the future of DR in relation to NAMB. One must first of all realize that NAMB does not control Disaster Relief or own any units (with perhaps the exception of a few shower units and Incident Command units) that respond to disasters. Many disasters are handled on a local level unless the scope of the disaster exceeds the affected states ability to respond. At that point in the past what they have done is contact NAMB and have them contact other states and ask them to activate their units. At that time NAMB begins to coordinate the multi-state response at the request and in coordination with the affected state. At this time NAMB usually activates its DOC (Disaster Operation Center) to help coordinate and track responding units as well as gather data on the response. NAMB may also assist the state by sending in and IC (Incident Command Team) to help coordinate things on the ground.
For a number of years the main leaders at NAMB to assist in this effort have been Mickey Caison, Terry Henderson, Bruce Poss, Karl Regan and an administrative assistant. If it is a very large event, they may pull people from other section of the building to assist in the effort. The last few years, Mickey Caison has been a team leader over the volunteer mission’s area which includes other organizations which deal with volunteer missions as well as DR. Terry Henderson served as the off-site coordinator which means that he spent a lot of time away from home in large disasters. He came out of a Fire Department career before coming to NAMB and did a lot to assist DR in changing over from the way we had always done things to helping DR adjust to the new reality of more government involvement is DR. He also served as a liaison with many governmental agencies as well as relating to State DR Directors. He is probably THE most well known person in other DR agencies for the SBC. Bruce Poss was brought on a few years ago to oversee things at NAMB and coordinate things on that end. Karl Regan has served in the DR area for years assisting in activating the units. He is the one that many times called the different unit coordinators and assisted them in getting the units to the right place at the right time. He is also the one who would always pray with you on the phone whenever he talked to you. They say the one problem with Karl was that you had to make him go home during a disaster because he did not want to leave the office.
In late Oct. or early Nov., Dr Ezell met with a group of State DR directors known as the Coordinating Council. From what I have been told, they were told at that meeting that they would be no substantial changes in DR. Within two or three days after this meeting, they received word that Terry Henderson and Karl Regan were being told to retire and being let go respectively. While Terry was in the age range of the buyout (he did not want to retire), he was told there was no place for him in the new structure. Karl was being let go because there was also no place for him, as they had to cut back. These two men combined or separate were two VERY key leaders in DR at NAMB. At a later meeting, Mickey Caison said it was his decision to let them go. Let’s just say there were a lot of state DR Directors that were very upset and it could have ended in DR forming its own entity and cutting NAMB out completely.
What was explained for the future of DR is the following. NAMB wants to see DR be done more on a regional basis. What that means is that when Texas has a large hurricane, they would not call NAMB if they needed help. What they would do instead is call Louisiana, Oklahoma, Arkansas or other states in the region and basically leave NAMB out of it. Part of this is based on finances. In the past, when NAMB has been called into to assist in a Disaster and has to bring in an Incident Command team, NAMB has picked up the tab for that. In long term and large scale disasters that can be very costly. For the most part NAMB DR is able to do this through undesignated gifts that are given to the DR and not NAMB’s regular funds. This has proved difficult to do in some instances if there have been no gifts given and the disaster does not get much play in the media. My question for the future is if the states will be able to cover this expense when they are being asked to cut back and make sacrifices already in their budgets to allow more funding to go to different locations?
The sadness for me is not only the loss of these two very vital and key men (that I both love and appreciate) at NAMB but also for many years DR functioned within each convention as a separate entity unto itself. Over the last 6-8 years, both because of necessity and a lot of hard work, that was beginning to change to become one organization made up of many parts that could work both independently and cooperatively as the needs dictate. Going to the regionalization idea is not a bad idea unless it breaks up the unity and the coordination that was developed in the last few years. Regionalization is fine for regional events, but will the coordination and expertise be there when there is a catastrophic, multi-regional event like a Katrina or a 9/11? This month FEMA is having a test event to simulate earth quake along the Mississippi River. If we lose this ability to coordinate things at the national level, we will be woefully inadequate when it comes to responding in a coordinated way to an event of this sort.
I love DR. I love the people I have had the opportunity to serve and serve with in many disaster situations. I have appreciated and learned much from our leaders and trainers as well as the people I have served with. I love being able to go into a disaster and say, “Please allow me to help you” and do it in Jesus’ name. I would hate to see any of that diminished because we are no longer able to coordinate and work together well.
I appreciate this man’s balanced and honest perspective. Thank you for sharing this with us.
The Question
Disaster Relief is an incredibly effective Southern Baptist program. I have a question.
If it ain’t broke, why are we trying to fix it?
I hope that the Disaster Relief ministry will grow and thrive in the days ahead. What a shame it would be if we did anything to damage this ministry.
C’mon, DR folks. Weigh in here!
We all know my disdain for the current leadership for NAMB and my predictions of what could happen in the next ten years.
My question is this: Where can I sign up? How do they do volunteers? Is this a career path in the SBC or is this almost entirely volunteers?
I have no interest in pursuing outdated outreach methods within my church but I am very interested in being able to assist or help out.
I don’t have money to give, but I have my time and that, to me, is far more precious.
First place of DR recruiting is usually your association. If not there, then your state should have a key DR person who will know who to contact.
Most associations around here (AR) have ‘specialties:’ some have cooking/feeding units, some have chainsaw units to cut trees off of houses. It works like this: if your association doesn’t do what you’d like to do, you’re welcome to travel to another association to help them out. My association currently does “tarps” and they’re one of the few tarp-groups. Basically the AM realized that after tornadoes, we Arkansas Baptists had people cutting trees off of houses and pulling them out, and we were feeding people, but after the chainsaw folks went down the street, you had houses with holes in the roof. So, he suggested we gather and train people to put tarps over the holes.
So that’s what our DR people do now.
Gotcha.
My experience is in coordination and technology in my roles at both my current job for the DOTD and my previous jobs working for churches.
Is there a DR team that acts at the liasion between teams?
I have no idea—probably the state DR coordinator does that, but I’m honestly not sure.
Thanks for your help. I’m going to contact a friend of mine at our state offices.
It’s obvious from passed comments that DR is a favorite of some including Dave Miller. If money must be saved to correct our shortfall, then a much fairer question would be from where should that money be taken ?
How about church planting where dozens of SBC churches already exist?
We’ve got another one going up in my community. There’s only seven SBC churches within seven miles of where it’s going to be meeting. There’s over fifty if you stretch that it twenty miles in any one direction.
In Sioux City, a city of nearly 100,000 (with the suburbs and such) we have 2, count ’em 2, SBC Churches. We are going to try to start two more this year, hopefully, but we do not have those problems, Bill.
By the way, while we are talking about those church plants. Any big Southern churches want to send some money to Iowa? A one-time gift of 100,000 would really get us going! Pocket change, right?
Well, if we can keep the Seminary grads from overplanting and competing in our suburbs, we ought to be able to get money AND people up to Iowa to help you out…
The “answer” is obvious and frankly stupid. We don’t know the size of the Problem. Or what portion of the shortfall solutions already taken will solve, Or how hard “somebody” has to try to solve some problem if it is indeed solveable – that is without everybody beating each other up in the process. And you’ve alreay said this much before. Are we just trying to keep the chatter going ?
Shortfall is one problem, growth or lak of it is another and costly item. Some go to banks but they make you do Show & Tell . Maybe we could do the Entity A, B, & C ( using the M formula). That’s where Entity A borrows from C with all loan and interest charges, and when C gets short on the payments B gets in the picture and helps out. The M formula stands for Madoff who can offer some insight to this solution if you can arrange a visit. “What a Wonderful World It Would Be ” is from a Louis Armstrong tune that your first time blogger today cb scott might remember .
Now that was funny but I’m the only one that seems to think so. Speculating on the reason might not be well received either. I can handle it.
A very helpful article to educate me about both WC and DR, two SBC ministries I’ve heard about only once before today, which is odd considering I live in Florida and we’ve been known to have a DR issue here and there (and there, and there, and over there, and…)
Everybody that has lived knows costs are inflated. Yes, I believe basically we are honest. But try this for simple math. If you buy something at .75 cents and sell it for a 1.00 dollar; and someone steals 10 of them from you, you must then sell 30 of them to again break even. So, forget “steal’ and say lose – fell in the sewer – you get the idea what loss can do to you in whatever form. If we don’t mind the store costs will eat you up.
Dave,
Thanks for posting this up. I am still holding at cautiously optimistic on the “down the road” results. DR is one of the things where our cooperation and cooperative experience has been a great strength in the past. I appreciate the inside perspective that this article provides.
I have good feelings about the regionalization plans for NAMB as I have seen regionalization work out well here in the Dakotas to this point. Hopefully, we don’t reinvent the wheel in DR and end up with a square tire.
Also Stihl the German power tool company with plants in this country routinely sends tractor trailers full of gear to be dished out to competent people making pulling private trailers in some cases not necessary not to mention the cost of pulling long distances.
15 months ago I lost my entire insides to my house from sea water damage. Lived in water for about 5 days and didn’t plan or receive anything from anybody while I lived in a hotel during repairs ( 3 mos. ) and including protecting whatever possessions from possible looters while the power was out and the police overwhelmed. My physical condition added something to my personal adventure. But I know that the DR and the Red Cross plus whatever do exist and that they can’t be everywhere; but while this time was the worst , it was the second time in 30 + years and I only saw possible looters at night and neighbors who banded together. I repeat I know they do good work I just never saw anybody -anywhere.
Dave, So my comments don’t provoke a response from you ? Why is that or is this Blog for pastors, music ministers and wannabees with no room for pew sitters that pay the freight. That’s part of the controlling attitude that’s killing the denomination.
Jack,
I can’t speak for anyone else, but three or four of your more recent comments have been completely incomprehensible to me. I don’t know what point you are getting at at this point so I figured I would just refrain from commenting.
The only one I was able to make heads or tails of was the one above about your personal experience with disaster. Was there any DR or Red Cross teams in your town or area at all during the incident you mentioned?
Jeff, I wouldn’t have any way of knowing if there were any in the state would I. The post that mentions Madoff – Madoff with the Ponzi scheme who is in jail – was a spoof that was easy to understand. I don’t believe no one understood that. Finally, the “simple math” post was about how much a bad operation can cost the entire entity with an example. I’ve trailered horses about some and know a trailer full of chain saws from Iowa to Florida with a pick-up cost more than hotel fees spent on the road while pulling them. What’s so hard to understand about that. Maybe the answer is that you can’t beat a guy at his job and you fellas have no experience in many of these things but want the rest of us to cater to your positions a clergy – and the two don’t necessarily cross. Maybe that’s too deep also.
Jack,
I don’t know what burr you have in your saddle at the moment, but it is causing you to make very little sense.
I know about the Madoff thing, but if there was supposed to be something funny in the above post about it, it went past me. And while your math equation may be technically correct the analogy is coming from left field (or right field, I don’t care which) and doesn’t match up to reality at least in DR terms in my experience. Maybe you are referring to government mismanagement, but at this point I dare not guess. Most DR is carried out as a volunteer thing with people giving their own time and resources to help people in need.
Apparently you didn’t understand my question. I was asking if there were any DR people or Red Cross people who came to your area in response to the disaster you mentioned. You said you didn’t see any; is that because none were there at all or simply that they didn’t come to you personally?
Is there some competition here that I don’t know about? I have spent most of my life as a regular working guy also. Do you have a problem with pastors?
Jeff. I respect your living in an igloo type weather in N.D. which defeated Roosevelt. No I don’t have a problem with pastors just with incompetence or their believing that John Q public is going to keep you guys from making a further mockery not of the Christian religion but of the Baptist faith and the Southern Baptist faith particularly. Other people are upset also but maybe you haven’t noticed up there that attendance is off down here in the lower 48. Sorry but you asked for it. I’ve seen a few large businesses go belly up and the SBC has all the signs. Maybe not this or the next five years but after the smart money has all retired – unless – unless, there are enough church plants to finally appeal to the masses and some of those even without the SBC name attached to drag them down. Can you “dig” that ? Some necessarily in your business need to get their feelings hurt while you can still survive. Visit Medora, N.D. SW of you , it’s a great experience for a couple of days.
I see it now, you are engaging in satire. Thanks for the laughs, now that is a good one. This is comedy gold. Keep the one liners coming.
Thanks for the tip, I have seen the commercials on TV for it and I have a friend who goes to play golf there every July, so I hope to do it one of these days if I ever can find the time.
Jack,
I’d have to partake in that which Lumpkins is convinced a seminary is neck deep in to understand what you’re saying.
But I’m not making any accusations…
ill, partake in anything you want, just don’t speak it. Don’t BS a BS’er.
That was funny, Bill.
Evil, but funny!
Yes ! That was a good one Bill ! Evil but memorable for all .
Dave, The one post was addressed to you and you haven’t left the building while these guys, compadres, run interference for you. Looks like an SBC yearly meeting minus a Parlimentarian .
YOU ARE OUT OF ORDER!!!!!
There, I’ll be the parliamentarian…
On a roll, Bill.
Speaking of Parliamentarians, I want that guy from the convention to run things.
He’s not afraid to admit when he screws up.
And yes, I know he’s not SBC.
Neither is Joe and we tolerate his presence…
The parlimentarian did screw up and more than once but who has he admitted it to. People he ruled against are still at a loss. Playing “games” such as this moves nobody ahead unless you think trash talk is worth something.
I have to agree with Jack here on the whole Parliamentarian issue. I’m surprised this topic has not received more attention in the press and on blogs. I for one would rather us go to the expense of paying one who is neutral as Switzerland than be forced to accept the free services of one who messed up, quite significantly, one of the most important Southern Baptist discussions in years. Isn’t there some expression about getting what you pay for?
I nominate the woman from Ohio who had the courage to stand up on the floor of the Southern Baptist Convention and explain to everyone up on the platform that things were amiss.
I thought she was way out of line.
Sure, a mistake was made, but she acted like something nefarious was going on, not simple confusion. She cast aspersions on the character of the people on the stage and I don’t think it was right.
That is one we will never agree on.
Agreed.
There was more than one violation of Rules of Order and one against a black baptist preacher from Texas who was violated in the worst way. A way that insults Freedom and democratic processes which we should have a respect for. That meeting was an insult to our intelligence. Also bill, maybe that mouse in your pocket will give his last name since you don’t want to. Next is a “pen” name or a sheet over our heads.
Jack, you are dead wrong on that one.
You can disagree with what happened to that motion, but that was done completely within the rules and procedures that the SBC has been using for the last million and a half years. Dwight’s motion was referred to the EC for action, as it should have been.
The EC will report that action back to the convention this year in Phoenix.
You can disagree with what was done, but to say he was violated in any way is both wrong and slanderous.
Dave, It’s not slanderous. That’s your opinion. I even talked with Dwight McKissick in person about this. There to the best of my recollections was no motion to refer it anywhere. There was a motion on the floor.
Dave, “Robert’s Rules of Order” have not been around for a ” million and a half ” years. Maybe they used “Esops Fables”.
The chair automatically refers all motions to the committee. Dwight’s motion was to change the ruling of the chair and to have the convention vote on the motion now.
The convention acted. I voted with Dwight McKissic, by the way, and told him I would support his effort. Hopefully, this year at Phoenix, I will have that opportunity.
That is my point, Jack. I voted contrary to the convention, but the convention acted. All things relative to Dwight’s motion were done decently and in order.
Just because you disagree with an action taken by a deliberative body does not mean that a “violation” has taken place.
The leaders followed proper procedure. So did Dwight. The convention voted and it went contrary to the way I voted.
But just because I don’t get my way doesn’t mean that someone acted out of ill-will or an evil heart, Jack.
Calm down a little.
Dave, The Chair doesn’t “automatically” refer all motion to a committee. They even vote, or amend or whatever.
The vast majority of motions made get referred or ruled out of order. It is perfunctory. Most motions, to be voted on, require a separate vote to overrule the chair.
Facts, Jack, facts.
In my humble opinion your facts are not correct. Show me the Robert’s Rules Device that warrants what your saying. Another challenge is /has been made in this regard and OUR opinion (s) might cause others to investigate. Robert’s Rules are designed so that the minority doesn’t get shut out. But they have to be followed. Referring something to a committee has always been the parliamentary way to “dispose” of it. It’s not “disposed” yet -hardly.
If for no other reason than to appease the relative few that even care about the SBC Convention ( and who aren’t on expense accounts to go there ) for such reasons as this, handling them in a more professional manner would retain members who leave and by leaving , leave SBC to the devices of those who can “pay” for interpretations. Keeping and building membership is a main avenue to accomplishing (and paying for ) all the rest.
If you want to see a contrast in Denominational Business I would suggest observing the Catholic meeting of people from large regions of many areas and compare that to our rendition . We can and must do better to survive.
We are “resisting change” to maintain the status quo thereby keeping things from becoming worse ; but, “change” is what church plants is all about and in that is the SBC’s ticket to survival in my and a lot of peoples opinions.
Have you ever attended an SBC?
People make motions and then they are referred to committee. ONce in a while, one gets voted on (2 or 3 a year out of however many are made.)
That’s the fact, Jack.
Out of pocket this morning, but interesting discussion. Dave is both right and wrong on the parliamentarian issue at the Convention. The messenger from Ohio was most certainly right to ask for a point of order and to get clarification that what had just happened was indeed wrong according to the Rules of Order. I only wish I would have done what she did.
That being said, I do not believe the presiding Officer (Johnny Hunt) was nefarious. With all due respect, I do not believe he knows much, if anything, about parliamentary procedure. This was square on Barry McCarty (sp.?), the Chief Parliamentarian and the assistant parliamentarians. There should have been a ballot vote, but there were many who did not want to see a ballot vote for fear that the original Task Force recommendation would have been amended.
I will not say that others on the platform were engaged in “nefarious” activities, but if you don’t think some political wheeling and dealing and arm-twisting was going on between the Task Force members and the messenger who made the motion to strenghten the CP language, then you are mistaken. While it may not have been nefarious, shennanigans were in high order that day my friends. And Rick is exactly right — the most important debate that Southern Baptists have had or perhaps will have in a long time, and it was not handled right. Ultimately, that falls on Johnny Hunt, but he (and all Southern Baptists) were let down by the Parliamentarians and the highly charged political atmosphere. We may not agree on that, but it is preserved on video for all to see. Thanks and God bless,
Howell
I agree with that Howell. The fault falls clearly on the parliamentarian. He messed up. He has done a good job through the years, but he blew it this time.
Howell Scott, I think I agree with everything you just said and the way you said it. I like Johnny Hunt even tho when hunting he takes unfair advantage by putting his ear to the ground and listens for clues. Again , I like Johnny Hunt.
Johnny Hunt was also it appears greatly overworked and under pressure that forced him to back away. Sometimes a full year AWAY is not enough. I like Johnny Hunt.
I remember watching online during something and Barry basically opened with, “Well, I screwed that one up (I’m paraphrasing some).”
Barry admitted to messing things up, got with the others and then throughly explained what went wrong and where they had to go back to fix it.
If DR is voluntary with people taking care of their own expenses , then where is the flap. Who can possibly change anything that could hurt the DR program. That probably doesn’t make sense either – to you. Away from the Theology ( and maybe some of that also ) you guys are mostly all wet !
Jack,
You gripe about other people’s shortcomings(OK, you only think pastors are incompetent apparently), but you can’t read a simple sentence. I said MOST DR is voluntary, but since you didn’t understand that, let me explain it. That means that the bulk of the people who participate are volunteers, but it certainly doesn’t mean that they all are. The manpower is mostly volunteer but many of the supplies they use cost money and are frequently supplied by the generosity of others in times of need. Not everything needed in a disaster comes from volunteers. The whole point of our discussions with DR is that the system works well as it is and it doesn’t make sense to “fix” something that isn’t broken. If you feel differently about DR then say so plainly without a bunch of witty(to you at least) remarks that don’t make sense in the discussion at hand.
P.S. At the moment I am all dry, the all-wet moment was last night in the blizzard. 🙂
Jeff Musgrave, Thanks for the explanation about DR. The best part Of Medora, ND is the live outdoor production of Theodore Roosevelt’s life sometimes with elk and men on horseback that can really ride – well. But that is your country. Don’t take me too serious. I instigate a bit.
Jack,
No worries, it is harder to pick up online, but I figure things out eventually. I have a guy that attends our church who I imagine is probably a lot like you in person. It’s just easier to “get it” quickly talking face-to-face as opposed to an internet forum.
Just so everyone knows, If I were to by chance meet any one of you in a church setting or with church members around I would respect both your position, the place or type gathering. But here I’m free to voice an opinion in a reasonable way along with everybody else – put downs included.
The days of “Sit Down , Shut Up, You’re rocking the Boat ” left when the right to organise and Bargain as is happening in Wisconsin right now, took place. And Wisconsin will use and let others use negotiation and restraint to achieve a settlement and solution. All within the Rules. Yes, politicians slipping over the border so the cops can’t bring them in to vote is playing within the rules. They’ve done it before. These are the “people” voicing objections – intelligent people. Stay Tuned. Watch Democracy in action.
Hi Dave,
We’re still fully committed to Disaster Relief and to serving our state partners who are really the ones that make it happen. Yes, there have been some staff changes, but those who are still here serving have many, many years of experience in DR and remain committed to helping Southern Baptists serve in times of great need.
Take Care.
Mike Ebert
North American Mission Board
We sure hope so.