My heart has been breaking over the scenes that have come out of Houston and the surrounding areas in Southeast Texas from Hurricane Harvey. I’ve kept up with friends there on social media and have prayed as flood waters have risen around their neighborhoods. I praise God for the thousands of rescuers, volunteers, and regular citizens who are helping their neighbors. And, I am incredibly grateful for those who responded quickly to people in need and didn’t pontificate over whether or not Hurricane Harvey was God’s judgment on Texas.
I remember standing in front of a crowd of tired, hot, utterly discouraged people in Port-Au-Prince, Haiti in late January, 2010. The massive earthquake hit two weeks before leaving hundreds of thousands dead, wounded, and displaced. I watched with horror on television as bodies were pulled out of the rubble, and through tears, felt that I needed to go. An opportunity arose for me to go with a medical relief team, and after making the journey across the mountains from the Dominican Republic, we made our way to the main part of the Port-Au-Prince where approximately 600,000 people lived in a tent city under bed sheets and hastily stretched tarps to protect themselves from the sun. The whole nation was afraid to go back into buildings until they were proven structurally sound again. Too many had died.
The crowd surrounding us that day was several hundred strong. We were giving away medical supplies and water in the midst of the rubble and I was walking the lines and praying for people. We began talking to the people about Jesus and the gospel with an interpreter in Creole and from the crowd, a man shouts out, “Did God do this to us because of our sins? Did God destroy our country because of the sins of Haiti?” The crowd grew silent and I looked at hundreds of eyes staring at me waiting for the answer.
My mind could have gone to some of the remarks I’d heard in America about this earthquake being God’s judgment because of the sins of the people. But, instead I thought of a story from the gospels where Jesus faced a similar question in Luke 13:
Luke 13:1-5 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.”
When I thought of Jesus, I told them that we are all sinners and that we all need to repent. I told them that when these things happen because creation groans because of sin (Romans 8:18-25), we are to wait upon the Lord for salvation. I told them that the message from God through these things is that life is very short, that death waits for all of us, that we are all guilty of sin, and that unless we repent and turn to Christ, we too will all perish. I told them that the message for America through this earthquake was the same as the message for Haiti. Repent and turn to Christ alone for salvation! The crowd was very serious, asked me many questions, and they were very somber. We explained the gospel and called upon the crowd to turn to Jesus. A large number from that crowd did. Altogether, we saw over 300 people cry out to Jesus for salvation that week.
I had to work through these things several years before as a young pastor in Montgomery, Alabama when Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast. I am from New Orleans and grew up near the Gulf Coast and my hometown was devastated. I was reeling emotionally and knew I had to help people. My family and friends were there. While many Christians were supportive, I immediately began to hear Christians in Alabama and other parts of the country that were unaffected say that Katrina flooded New Orleans because it was such a sinful city. Lots of pronouncements were made that this hurricane was God’s judgment on sin. I didn’t know how to respond to that, so I just told people that I didn’t know the mind of God on these things and yes, He can do what He deems just, but as for me, I was going to help people because God commands us to do that. The people pronouncing sure judgment on the sins of others tended to get quiet at that point.
The massive response from Southern Baptists in Alabama and across America as well as from other Christians during Katrina demonstrated that no matter what anyone thought about the cause of the disaster (if they thought about that at all), they were motivated by love to help those in need. The response was incredible. That is how it should be. Many of those being critical of New Orleans during and after Katrina, who blamed the people stranded on the roofs and overpasses for not evacuating, who turned their nose up against those suffering, who blasted the opposing political party, who sat around complaining about what they saw – those people often did little to help and ended up having hard hearts. The ones proclaiming God’s judgment on New Orleans and the Gulf Coast for its sins, seemed to feel justified in doing little to help, as though they didn’t want to get in the way of God. I didn’t have much time for that perspective, nor did the thousands of volunteers who flooded down to that area to help. I think we chose the better way.
One of the best things about Southern Baptists are that, organizationally, we respond to people in need in amazing ways as an expression of love from God. Southern Baptist Disaster Relief through NAMB and through state conventions like Southern Baptists of Texas are some of the best things we do. Right now, yellow hats and feeding teams are on site in disaster areas working with the Red Cross and helping those in need because of Hurricane Harvey. Christians and other people of good will from all over are assisting, neighbor is helping neighbor, and the love of God is being shown. Mercy is triumphing in the midst of disaster. And, that is how it should be as hope, help, and order are being restored out of the chaos.
I don’t claim to know the mind of God and I am beyond reluctant to pronounce judgment on a city or region because nature groaned in their path. As I’ve volunteered in disaster after disaster, I’ve seen the pain and the loss, heard the cries, and helped wipe the tears. I’ve cried a lot of tears myself. When people are in great need and have suffered much, the response should be mercy to them, sacrificial love and service, prayer, and the call of repentance to all of us – that we would ALL turn to Christ in repentance and entrust ourselves to Him because time is short and our need is great. The judgment from these disasters is revealed more through the hardness of heart of those who refuse to help, who sit back in scorn, or who go on in indifference as though nothing happened. If judgment is poured out, it is perhaps poured out not through loss of material possessions, but on those who sit in comfort and plenty and ignore those in need right before them and do nothing to help when they can. Indifference and hardness of heart is what we should fear more than a flood, earthquake, tornado, or fire.
We should do far more suffering WITH people before we pronounce judgment on anyone, especially from afar. Thankfully, I’m not hearing much of that this time, but ignoring suffering is a form of passing judgment as well. Let’s be sure not to pass to the other side of the road when our neighbors are in a ditch crying out for help.
As so many Southern Baptists and other people of good will respond to those affected by Hurricane Harvey, let’s not just sit back and watch. Let’s not make sport of it all and criticize others for not doing what we think they should. Let’s not stare into the face of great human need and let our hearts be hardened by indifference, thus incurring God’s judgment upon ourselves resulting in a hardened heart and bitterness. Rather, let’s see this as an opportunity to receive from God, to give of our own resources, to love, and to join with others in their suffering by serving them so that Christ is exalted and people are blessed in their time of need. We’ll be blessed to.
Judgment always begins with the House of God. This is our test. How will we respond? In mercy or indifference?
You have a tender heart. Your response to that man’s question about God’s judgment was inspired. May your tragedies be few and your years in ministry many.
Alan,
Thanks for a godly voice.
It is true: we all deserve what happened to Haiti and to southeast Texas and actually, we deserve worse.
Will we cry out to the culture at large to repent to turn from their sin or face judgement? I hope so.
Or will we ‘protect’ our God from worldly criticism by not ascribing That His judgment on sin is what causes or allows these catastrophic events?
Their god is one of free love and leniency made in their own image.
Let us boldly proclaim the sin of our nation and the only remedy: the Gospel of the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ!
I think no one can call this a judgment on Texas, or a disaster anywhere a judgment on anyone. It’s nature pure and simple. If you build a home by a river, you can expect to be flooded. If you build a home in tornado alley, you better have a storm shelter. If you live by the ocean near the gulf coast you might as well expect a hurricane, or something else. Many of us have our houses under a tree. When a big limb drops on top of our house it’s not the judgment of God. I think to insinuate such a thing would be wrong. I live near the New Madrid Fault, I can expect my home to be shook one day.
We need to put feet on our prayers, reach out and lend a hand. This is what God is truly in and it’s how he works.
I don’t say this hurricane is a judgement on Texas
Neither do I say Hurricane Harvey is not a judgement from God.
Wouldn’t it be sad if God sent judgement on a people, and their pastors were busy declaring it was not God’s judgement?
It may be just as wrong to falsely declare this is not a judgement from God, as to falsely declare this is a judgement from God.
If you don’t know for sure, then say you don’t know for sure.
David R. Brumbelow
This is what I say about what Harvey is: Weather. There is no point, in the absence of some kind of bona fide prophet, on speculating about weather being God’s judgement.
At least we’re not hearing much about this being because of global warming!
David R. Brumbelow
Did God allow Harvey?
Doesn’t He control the weather?
Couldn’t He have stopped Harvey?
On the other hand, does God work all things together for the good of His people?
And again, does the United States [or any people] deserve judgment for sin?
Could He not use the weather to bring judgment to a people?
Or to show His sovereignty and make His power known?
Does He not concern Himself with every little detail of life, for He knows even when a sparrow falls to the ground?
Colossians 1 tells us:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Is the weather part of “all things”?
Did He create Harvey?
Was it created for Him?
Did he hold it together?
If your answer to those questions is, like mine, “yes”, than the next question seems to be, “why’.
Why did God create Harvey?
Why did He hold it together?
Just some things to think about.
Mike,
1. No
2. No
3. No
God lets it rain on the just and unjust alike. I say we absolutely we do not deserve some some of the things we go through in this life. Death and accidents are all part of life, so it is with the weather. It has nothing to do with judgement. There will be a judgement when this life is over but there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ. Why do tornado’s strike and wipe away church buildings, or a Christian gets killed on their way home from church, or why do church vans wreck and kill its occupants? All this has nothing to do with the judgement of God on sinners.
Jess,
Thanks for your reply.
When a convicted murderer come to Christ or even comes to Christ than is convicted, does he deserve jail time? Of course. That is because there are temporal judgments and an eternal one.
This has always been so. Look at Genesis. God told Adam that eating from that forbidden tree: on the day you eat of it you shall die. But Adam didn’t die physically that day, but spiritually. Later God pronounces further judgments on the humans:
To the woman He said,
“I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you will bring forth children;
Yet your desire will be for your husband,
And he will rule over you.”
17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’;
Cursed is the ground because of you;
In toil you will eat of it
All the days of your life.
18 “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you;
And you will eat the plants of the field;
19 By the sweat of your face
You will eat bread,
Till you return to the ground,
Because from it you were taken;
For you are dust,
And to dust you shall return.”
Now these fall upon the “just and the unjust” alike. Being born again and justified by the blood does not keep us from experiencing these troubles, up to and including physical death. We still sin. We still earn the temporal consequences of sin though we have been saved from the eternal consequence that we still earn by our every disobedience.
And do you imagine in the new earth, that there will be such tragic events like Harvey or Katrina?
Of course not. Because they are not just “weather” but are in the hands of the One who holds all things together and works everything out to the counsel of His own will. Thus they are here with purpose.
Now if one looks at the world in a certain way, death is the worst thing that could be. But as Christians we do not fear the “worst thing” because we know there is life for us beyond that. And we know that the first death is not the worst thing, but rather that the second death is the worst thing.
And we know that loss of material things like our homes and clothes and cars and church buildings do not compare to what we deserve: that is the second death, eternal punishment, outer darkness where there is wailing and the continual gnashing of teeth.
And because we have a already a fear of the Lord, we do not fear His created things, like the weather, because we trust ourselves in His most capable hands.
To recap:
Death is brought about by sin. Death is the judgment of God on sinners. Jesus died not because of His own sin but because He took our sins.
A true believer dies physically because he is a sinner, and his death is a temporal judgment on his sin and as due to his being from Adam. Both.
And how God brings about his death, whether by car accident or drowning in Harvey’s flood waters or however does not mean that it is not a judgment of God on sin.
Now in the Book of Revelation, chapter 8, we read:
“6 And the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound them.
7 The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.
8 The second angel sounded, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea; and a third of the sea became blood, 9 and a third of the creatures which were in the sea and had life, died; and a third of the ships were destroyed.
10 The third angel sounded, and a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waters. 11 The name of the star is called Wormwood; and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.”
Here God uses ‘natural” disasters for judgment. But today, they are just “whether”?
Can we not as His ambassadors point to these things and proclaim that the world is under judgment by its creator, and that only through Jesus can there be any peace and safety? FROM GOD. Peace and safety from God only through Jesus.
Blessing Jess.
When Jesus was asked the question, he answered it the way I quoted here. That is the basis of my post. I am not privy to extra-biblical revelation as to which natural disaster might be God’s judgment and which might be weather. So, my response is to say that every expression of “nature groaning,” of sorrow, of disaster, and of loss should call us to repentance and reconciliation to God through Christ, whether you are in the flood waters or watching it all on TV from the comfort of your home.
Amos 3:6 Is a trumpet blown in a city, and the people are not afraid? Does disaster come to a city, unless the LORD has done it?
Ever since the fall in the garden of Eden we have had bad weather. I think today we have to look at the New Testament for the answers since we are no longer under the Law but under Grace. I do believe it may be “possible” for an “individual” to become sick or suffer an untimely death by eating the Lord’s Supper unworthily. I also think disasters is nature in it’s awesomeness and nothing else. If disasters were judgment on sin there wouldn’t be a single Christian left here on earth. We wouldn’t even have the opportunity to be saved.
Do we risk sounding like functional/practical Deists when we contend that God has stepped away from his creative work and simply allows nature to take its course without aligning all things, even nature, to the good pleasure of his will?
“Who then is this, that he commands even winds and water, and they obey him?”
To be clear I am not suggesting that Harvey is judgment… might it be? Of course it could be. Might God have some other intention in his will? Certainly.
I, nor any others on this forum, simply don’t know why God in the good pleasure of his will brought this to pass… I just know that his ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than our thoughts… And some things are just above our pay grade.
We should be more concerned with honoring God and his word and doing good for our neighbor (fellow man) rather then trying to ascertain and/or pronounce assumptions about whether or not this is some type of Divine judgment.
Tarheel_Dave,
In order for Harvey to be a judgement on Texas they would have to have committed a horrible sin. I don’t know of any horrible sin Texans could have committed. All this got me to thinking, I wonder how many of the flooded counties went red during the election. This is the only possible explanation I could come up with if what you are insinuating is true. I just think it’s nature pure and simple and not the judgement of God.
Dave, that was the point of my post. I’m saying that we should not run around and say that every disaster is Divine Judgment. I’m saying that I heard that a lot when it came to New Orleans and Haiti. I heard it none at all when it came to the Alabama tornados of 2011, the Nashville floods, or Hurricane Harvey. We have a way of pronouncing judgment on “those people” and letting ourselves off the hook.
Could God use natural disasters to bring judgment? Is God in charge of all things? Of course! But, we get into quite a mess when we claim to speak for God when it comes to the suffering of others. Also, ALL of these things should be warnings to us all that life is short and we should all repent and turn to God.
I’m not saying that its just ‘weather.’
I know Alan, and I agree with you.
So if its not “just weather” and its not necessarily divine judgment, then what is it?
Mike: why so much discomfort with uncertainty? If faced by something that might be X, but might also be not-X, why not just SAY you don’t know — or stay discreetly silent? Isn’t that the advice you’d give your kids?
David Light,
You must not have read all my comments.
I am certain that God is in control of the weather. That He appoints the timing of each death. And that when the weather destroys, disrupts, and slays humans it is the judgment of God.
And that the only way to be safe from the one we all should fear more than anything else, including physical death, that being God our Creator, is to surrender ourselves to Jesus. Otherwise there is no peace nor safety for humans as long as God’s wrath remains on them.
Blessings
Jess,
I’m not a Trump fan by any stretch of the imagination… But your hypothesis doesn’t work… Because Houston most certainly went deep blue.
Also… I have made no such insinuation ( that Harvey was the judgment of God) … if you had bothered to read what I actually posted, sir.
Alan,
That is correct, these natural disasters should be warnings to both us as believers and to the nation at large. They should spur us all to repentance and thus fear of the Lord.
But why would the nation-at-large fear God because of these things if we as His ambassadors declare that they are just the weather?
So as His ambassadors, how are we to declare God’s role in these natural disasters? How are we to relate the humanly horrific events on the ground to God? Does sin directly cause flooding? or tornados? or hurricanes? Nope. And neither does one place being more evil than another deserve the disaster more than another.
Is God in control of these things or not?
If so, why does He create them or allow them to happen, if not for judgment?
One major problem with those who made the claim that “Katrina flooded New Orleans because it was such a sinful city” is that New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary was flooded and closed for months, whereas the French Quarter didn’t flood a bit -in fact, I heard that there were some bars in the French Quarter that never closed and were open 24 hours a day. If the Lord wanted to inflict punishment on sinful New Orleans why didn’t he bring the flooding and devastation to Bourbon Street?
There is a real danger in taking the position of stating where and how God inflicts judgement on a location. I can remember years ago when if I remember correctly, Pat Robertson said that the reason the Los Angeles area experienced an earthquake is because of the porn industry based in the San Fernando Valley in northern L.A. However, secular commentators commented why was the Northridge area (the center of the porn film industry) not affected when other areas were? These secular commentators said, “Does God not have good aim when he wants to do punishment?” On the other hand, I can remember reading about a Baptist Church in Piedmont, AL which was hit by a tornado and there was some discussion about how could God allow this to happen – Some commentators surmised that there must have been some sin in the church and the Lord was punishing them for some unconfessed sin.
I say all of this to point out that it is foolish and arrogant to say that a natural disaster is the result of some sins that have not been confessed and repented of. The better response needs to be how can the church support those who are now suffering rather than pointing fingers at others and saying they caused it and therefore deserve the punishment they are now receiving. If you really believe they deserve to suffer, how willing will you be to provide assistance to those who are now suffering?
David,
While i agree with you that it is foolish to ascribe natural disasters to unrepentant sins since it affects many who are repentant and, as per your example,nit fails to affect many who are blatantly living in rebellion, this does not mean that it is not the judgment of God onto the world for its failure to recognize Him and to fear Him. Harvey is judgment on Houston, on Texas, on Ohio, on New York, on Casper, on everyone. This world is rebellion against its Creator, and He is there, and He is not silent.
And as His ambassadors, it behooves us to proclaim His judgment and the only remedy: the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The world should be in fear of the Mighty and Awesome and Most Powerful Holy God who is Completely Righteous in His judgments.
Or simply, we all deserve His terrible judgments. We are no more righteous in ourselves than the people of Houston and its environs. That we have escaped such a horrific blow is only due to His mercy, not due to our own place before Him.
And if the world scoffs at us for proclaiming the truth, then their blood and eternal lives are on their own heads and souls. We have a commission from God.
Mike, well said…
Thank GOD for His Mercy!
I think that after the fall God put the weather in motion. I see the awesomeness of God in all the weather patterns, Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter. I think the problem lies in the fact that people get in the way of storms, avalanches, mud slides, tidal waves, drought and tornadoes. It’s true Jesus could control the weather, he done so to prove to his disciples that he was God. It’s true that it’s once appointed unto man to die, but God didn’t say you will die on Tuesday at 1:16 pm. He just simply said you will die. When the scriptures tell us there is an appointed time to die they simply mean as with living so it is with death. Just because God does know all doesn’t mean he will extend or shorten life. I think through our superstition and imagination we make up things that are not in scripture. We certainly aren’t Deist’s for believing that Harvey is just the weather. God in in every believer and he does lead us. I think the problem is that we will not follow. Jesus told us plainly where to build our house. The question is did we build our house upon a rock? If those in Texas had built upon a rock maybe they could have avoided the flood.
Irma will soon hit the Florida coast, so it seems.
Here are a few Scriptures for your perusal:
[all from NASB]
Job 37
And He does not restrain the lightnings when His voice is heard.
“God thunders with His voice wondrously,
Doing great things which we cannot comprehend.
“For to the snow He says, ‘Fall on the earth,’
And to the downpour and the rain, ‘Be strong.’
“He seals the hand of every man,
That all men may know His work.
“Then the beast goes into its lair
And remains in its den.
“Out of the south comes the storm,
And out of the north the cold.
“From the breath of God ice is made,
And the expanse of the waters is frozen.
“Also with moisture He loads the thick cloud;
He disperses the cloud of His lightning.
“It changes direction, turning around by His guidance,
That it may do whatever He commands it
On the face of the inhabited earth.
“Whether for correction, or for His world,
Or for lovingkindness, He causes it to happen.
Psalm 135
For I know that the Lord is great
And that our Lord is above all gods.
Whatever the Lord pleases, He does,
In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps.
He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
Who makes lightnings for the rain,
Who brings forth the wind from His treasuries.
Psalm 148
Praise the Lord from the earth,
Sea monsters and all deeps;
Fire and hail, snow and clouds;
Stormy wind, fulfilling His word;
Other examples where God uses weather:
Genesis 6:5-9:19 (Earth destroyed by flood, people and animals killed)
Exodus 9:23-29 (hail and fire from heaven on Egypt)
Joshua 10:11 (hail on the Amorites, etc.)
I Samuel 7:10 (thunder disperses the Philistines)
Nahum 1:3 (judgment with whirlwind and drought)
Leviticus 26:19-20 (rainless sky, parched earth)
Deuteronomy 11:13-15 (rain as reward for obedience)
Deuteronomy 28:24 (drought punishment)
I Samuel 12:18 (thunder and rain to get people’s attention)
II Samuel 21:1 (drought and famine)
I Kings 8:35-36 (good weather reward)
I Kings 16:30-18:45 (rain withheld and given)
Hosea 13:15 (dry weather)
Amos 4:7 (rain given and withheld from certain cities)
Jonah 1:4,10-15 (man punished and redirected by sea storm)
Zechariah 14:17 (rain withheld as judgment)
Revelation 16:21 (hailstone punishment)
God has purpose for each weather occurrence.
Its not always for judgment.
But the results of each occurrence should dictate our understanding of His purpose or purposes.
Let us ray for the people of the Caribbean as well as those in the USA who will be affected by Irma.
Blessings
Tarheel_Dave,
You said that Harvey could be a judgement, you said might it be, then you said of course it could be. Brother that is insinuation. Yes I read your post.
Could did not mean, is.
My clear contention was/ is that we don’t know the mind of the one who controls the weather. We don’t know what God’s sovereign will is.
I reject deism and assert that the creator is still working in His creation according to His own pleasure.
Katrina flooded New Orleans, but it wiped out the Mississippi Gulf Coast. If it was some kind of judgment, then it seems like there was a lot of collateral damage. It would be difficult to try to figure out exactly what God’s intentions would be with natural disasters, other than the fact that they are part of the world in which we live. “For the wages of sin is death….” and that’s a far worse consequence spiritually than physically. Honestly, I don’t think that a properly interpreted context of scripture teaches that natural disasters are part of God’s judgement for collective community sins with the covenant relationship we have in Christ as the pathway to eternal life. That gets into the business of determining what level of sin, and what kind, merits a hurricane smackdown, as opposed to a tornado, or a wildfire, and determining that people, collectively, can do something about their behavior to avoid such consequences.
I have a lot of social media connections with friends in Houston. After spending more than 22 years of my life there, I know a lot of people, and I know that the storm damage didn’t discriminate when it came to saints and sinners. About half of the friends I have on social media from the Houston area suffered devastating catastrophe simply because of the elevation of their house, and how well the storm drains were working. Friends who live down on the lower Brazos, in Brazoria and Lake Jackson saw the floodwaters rise over the crown of their house. It was a consequence of where they decided to build or move, in many cases dozens of years ago.
And if natural disasters are some kind of eschatological sign, things need to be taken into consideration around the world, and not just what is happening here.