Dear Pastor,
Let me first clarify that this letter is for Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) pastors in general. I am well aware that what you are about to read does not include all pastors – at least not in totality. I also write this from the perspective of having been a pastor myself and therefore include myself as an addressee.
I look around the SBC and see, hear, and read about how the SBC is in decline. Resolutions come out saying regenerate membership must be our focus. Conferences are convened that decry the faults of various theological models of soteriology. Mission boards legislate instead of enable. This list could certainly be added to. What is really so remarkable about the question of SBC decline is not the decline itself, but rather the simple answer that is so obvious no one will talk about with any seriousness openly in the SBC. The cause of the decline of the SBC is – YOU!
If the last sentence made you squirm then I have been successful in setting a table for more discussion. If you are unphased, then you probably ought to be asking yourself why you are in even in the ministry. But that is another open letter for another time.
That being said, why are you, the pastor, the cause of the decline of the SBC? Simply stated, you have failed to preach the full gospel message. And because of the failure you have led the churches of the SBC into spiritual paralysis. Observe the three following illustrations of how our physical world is paralleled in the spiritual world enabled by a lack of the gospel. These are not intended to be exhaustive but should stimulate you to further personal introspection.
1. Abortion has become very prevalent in our society. With a new upcoming presidential administration, expanded abortion has been heralded as the first issue to be approved. By not clearly stating and preaching the gospel, you the pastor, have contributed to the deaths of millions of babies and children. Your congregations have not had their conscience pricked with repentance. The societal culture of death has numbed the church. In effect, spiritually, your church has become an abortion mill that kills unwanted and undesirable growth for the sake of convenience. Jesus could be speaking to us all when He says, “Woe to that man by whom the offense comes.” (Matthew 18:7b)
2. Homosexuality seeks to prey on the young of our society in order to reproduce it’s abomination. And yes, this is mirrored spiritually in your church as well. You should be familiar with Paul’s Holy Spirit inspired words from Romans 1. Many of you have given lip service to this passage but fail to see it happening among your own congregation. You allow yourself to be “worshiped” in God’s place. By not faithfully preaching Christ crucified you make a living off the flock instead. As a result your church gives unnatural affection to itself in such a way that parallels homosexual perversion instead of giving the love that should rightly be given to Jesus Christ alone. They are not a picture of the unblemished Bride the Bridegroom is preparing.
3. Wealth is the next illustration. You, the pastor, want bigger and better things for your church. Jesus said He would build the church (Matthew 18:18). He also said, “I go to prepare a place for you.” (John 14:2) by not consistently instilling an eschatological hope derived from preaching of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, you have destroyed hope for an eternal existence with our Lord and Savior therefore necessitating a survival mentality in your congregation. They can only look to what they have now and as such they seek better programs and more fund-raisers. Programs and fund-raisers do not instill hope – only the desire for more programs and fund-raisers.
Pastor, I pray you receive these words as a challenge to preach the gospel. If you already TRULY do so then be encouraged by what I have written to continue even more boldly. Now is not the time to back down. Do not let the fear of man keep you from this holy and God-ordained task. Hollywood, the IRS, church government, the workplace, and the home should never sway you from gospel preaching.
If you have found offense at what you have just read I apologize for your emotion but not for my words. You must lead your church by proclaiming diligently that which has been given to you.
“Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ…to God, alone wise, be glory through Jesus Christ forever. Amen.” (Romans 16:25, 27)
Excellent article, but you need to add need to return to preaching God’s Sovereignty in Salvation, Lordship, Repentance, and Faith in stead of a free gift, or decisional regeneration.
Dr. Paul W. Foltz
Thank you, Dr. Foltz. One of the underlying reasons for my letter is to point out the “you need to add” menality. I will contend that if a true reversal of the decline of the SBC is to be mounted then its pastors must reverse themselves and preach simply the gospel. All the “you need to add” items should take care of themselves once the base is reestablished.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..This is what we’re up against.
Dear Bro. Scott ,
All the items I mentioned are part of the Gospel, to leave any one of them out, is NOT to preach The Gospel of The Grace of God.
Amen to that. And I am glad you noted that 20 of the last 28 years in the United State have been served by a Republican president and we are no closer to ending abortion. The main reason for this is probably because the Republican party is not as much against it as you might like to believe but will certainly take your vote by telling you that they are.
Like the War on Drugs, the War on Abortion has been a failure because it fails to address the basic problem: Demand. You attempt to do that by preaching abstinence but it doesn’t work. If the time and effort made at ending abortion were channeled to pleading for adoption of unwanted babies with smart television ads, you might actually accomplish what you seek by offering an alternative. But you will never do it by telling people they cannot have an abortion because you do not approve of it.
All research shows that homosexuals are not great abusers of children. In fact, it is heterosexuals that abuse kids by a far higher majority. This is another issue where the SBC should let God do the judging rather than deciding they are uniquely qualified to act on his behalf. Just once I would like to see the SBC picket a Red Lobster because of the abominations which take take place in those restaurants. In fact, many are headed there after the services themselves.
Dr. Foltz,
I agree with your sentiment. In no way should your “additions” be lessened in importance. In fact, it seems like you are merely fleshing out “the simple gospel message”.
Russ,
I too think the abominations happening in a Red Lobster should be addressed. When I order a steak it should be cooked right the first time so I can eat my lobster tail with the steak while both are hot. thanks for pointing that out.
Now…
Back to Dr. Foltz…
What I hope that you are comprehending from my post is that too often pastors tack on at then end of a message/sermon “now if you will only believe in Jesus” and expect the congregation to understand the implications of the gospel when the entire message/sermon dealt with absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ and His mission. I think you and I are agreeing to that.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..This is what we’re up against.
E. Scott Hart. You are my kind of guy! In some ways anyway.
Very nicely done and right on target. The Gospel has been ignored for too long.
Mark
johnMarks last blog post..John 3:16 Conference 60 minute Q&A
Preach and live “God’s Sovereignty in Salvation, Lordship, Repentance, and Faith.” Dr. Foltz is absolutely right. In my fellowship, the attack on Calvinism was greater than the truth. The John 3:16 Conference was the same. Mr. Hart, your letter is on target. We have a Bible that can be used to preach from without any additions. Pastors really need to use it. Christians need discipleship from God’s Word. Preaching “you need to do this, or you should not do this” is not necessary when the Bible is preached. God’s people have ears to hear the message, and they have the Holy Spirit to tell them what and what not to do. More Bible and less sermon would seem to miraculously overcome sinfulness among the congregations. The Doctrines of Grace are on every page because the Lord of Grace is written about in every page. (“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. ” John 5:39) Out eschatology is found in the cross and His resurrection.
Thank you for such a good site.
Agreed! Wonderful and accurate challenge!!!!!!!!!
Tim Gs last blog post..Reaching the younger generation – ASAP!
A split is slowly taking place in the evangelical church today. It has been over the past 20yrs. Some point to the emergent church movement. Some blame it on church becoming too legalistic; too religious. Ultimately, the root cause is nothing new; People are not interested in the God of the Bible. The seeker is more interested in living their best life now and finding a purpose that will bring them happiness. The Jesus of love and tolerance they like; The Jesus who speaks of hell and God’s wrath, they reject. The church of today is primarily focused on the seeker. They will do whatever it takes to get them into church (distorting what Paul said in I Cor. 9: 19-23). Once they are in the church, the approach is to be ‘sensitive’ to where they are; to their felt needs. So, the messages (er.. ‘Experiences’) are easy.. topical… ‘How To…’ feel-good, morality lessons (do this/don’t do that).
At the most, what you get in church on a Sunday are the effects of the Gospel -vs- the Gospel itself. The seeker hears that they need Jesus in their life (but not why).
Johns last blog post..Contending for the Truth
It seems to me that the problem with abortion is not demand but sin. Sin can only be dealt with with the Gospel, because it is God’s power to salvation for all who believe.
Yes, Red Lobster certainly needs to be picketed. The way my children put down those biscuits, they never seem to keep my basket full. More Biscuits!! Please!!
ABClay
Just tacking something on the end of a message on just believe on Jesus, won’t convict, or lead one to embrace Christ as Lord and Saviour.
THE SINNER IS DEAD, UNLESS THE HOLY SPIRIT AWAKENS HIM, THERE IS NO HOPE.
Preaching today is anemic. We need to return to preaching on God’s Character, and Purpose
THE SINNER DOESN’T KNOW WHO GOD IS, NOR WHAT HE HAS DONE TO OFFEND HIM, NOR THE JUDGMENT THAT HE IS UNDER.
God is not at the sinner’s disposal, the sinner is at God’s to either save or damn. God didn’t have to save anybody.
JohnMark,
Thanks.
Joe,
It seems you and I are in agreement. And while calvinism (notice small ‘c’) is often derided it is not the cureall. Too many Reformed/calvinists are guilty as well, especially when it comes to picking up the banner for that soteriological position. I am a five solas and doctrines of grace espouser myself but if I do not preach the gospel then I am nothing. Point being, our allegiance should be to Jesus and His gospel rather than a convenient conference topic. It is because of the gospel that the doctrines of grace are important.
Tim G,
Thanks.
ABClay,
You have struck a good chord. The gospel message delivered consistently and purposefully (I hope that does not infringe a copyright) will expose sin.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Start with an Apology
Dr. Foltz,
Amen!
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Start with an Apology
Thank you, Brother Hart.
Brother Clay,
The Gospel is God’s power, but it must be presented under Holy Spirit anointing to reach the lost and expose sin.
It’s easy to preach mechanically, and like Samson, wist not that The Spirit had departed.
Thus it takes fervent prayer for His Anointing and convicting presence to save souls and expose sin.
today Holy Spirit conviction, is not known, is not preached, and more tragically, is not wanted.
Amen to your article. I pastored an SBC church for 15 years and preached the doctrines of grace and met resistance the entire time. Why are SBC churches declining? Let describe what I faced: 1) They rejected any preaching from the OT; 2) Craved revivalistic preaching which contained mostly funny or tear jerking stories; 3) complained about the amount of Scripture we read in worship or I included in my sermons; 4)valued the Masonic Lodge and Eastern Star over the Scriptures; 5)Considered the Mormons to be just another Christian denomination just like us; 6) supported abortion rights and complained any time I preached on pro-life; 7) the only deacon who was not a Mason was into necromancy, I kid you not. 8) the Church was dominated by the older generation and finally ran off all the young folks who did respond favorably to expository preaching and the doctrines of grace, then I left.
I fear there are hundreds of churches like that out there!
Bryans last blog post..Acts 1:8 “The Missionary Role of the Church To the State”
Bryan,
I can fully sympathize with you. The first Church I served, had Deacons who were Masons, and I didn’t know it. When I exposed the truth about the Masonic lodge They turned on me, like a pack of ravenous wolves.
I LEFT THERE. AND FOUR YEARS LATER, FOUND OUT THAT ALL FOUR WERE DEAD. Later on , I went back as an interim Pastor, before moving from South Florida.
But we are to stand for The Truth, and let the chips fall where they may.
After all, we shall be rewarded for faithfulness, nor for fantastic results.
Brother,
As a SBC pastor I remain unmoved by your challenge (“Open Letter to all Pastors…”), because I have never felt it my calling or responsibility to build the Convention – my call is to build the Kingdom of God. The Convention is merely man’s means of doing the work. It will come and go -it is the Kingdom that is eternal and is the focus of my ministry (and of most of my brothers in ministry I believe).
The Kingdom of God is ”Righteousness, joy and peace in the Holy Ghost.”
The Kingdom of God is being built by God.
We have nothing to do with it.
It is The Lord’s doing, and is marvelous in our eyes.
He uses means, and will use us, as we are submitted unto Him.
But God only accepts What He Himself does. That’s how We were saved.
HE DID IT ALL.
hi. thanks for the challenging article. i’ll just point out some pitfalls, not problems with the article, but things we need to be careful with if we address this issue.
1. sovereignty – someone mentioned we need to emphasize this more, but how do we emphasize “sovereignty” and then blame human beings for the way the world is operating? the SBC is struggling to grasp this word, even fighting over it, let’s be careful about throwing it around like we actually get it. and, speaking of sovereignty, did not God raise up Obama & the majority of anti-life liberals? did he not raise up the assyrians, or nebuchadnezzar & babylon, or rome? the book of daniel? romans? the powers that be are ordained by God.
2. numbers – this one is tricky. is the SBC in decline in numbers? if so, then is a church or convention in some kind of golden age when it has the most members & participants? if so, then joel osteen’s church is the most spiritual church in america, right? if we’re going to complain about decline, shouldn’t we know what constitutes decline?
3. theology – yes, i realize we are having lots of discussions about soteriology & other issues today, but the church needs to have these discussions. we’re always one generation away from being theologically illiterate. in fact, if we’re in decline, maybe we’re not having enough theological, biblically based discussions.
4. church – the SBC is NOT the church. i love the SBC, i’ve given to it, my family has served its churches, and my heart is knit to the hearts of other southern baptists, to live together & to die together. but the SBC is still not the church.
5. culture – i’m not so sure that cultural issues are litmus tests for the church. i know we like to believe that the church, & God, can transform culture, but i also believe even if the church moves out of decline or becomes more spiritual, abortion & homosexuality might not automatically disappear from culture.
Mikes last blog post..ecclesiastes and the alcohol debate?
Doug,
It is disheartening that you are unmoved by the challenge to preach the gospel. The SBC is not the end all. It exists to strengthen churches’ ability to cooperate in missions. The strength of the churches is determined by the leading of the proclaimers in their midst. Therefore, if you do not see it necessary to be moved by the challenge to preach the gospel then you admit you are part of the problem of not just the decline of the SBC but of Christianity in general across our land. I could have easily enough entitled the letter to all pastors of ANY church.
Stop mincing words about the kingdom and preach the gospel IN the kingdom.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Start with an Apology
Author; Dr. Paul W. Foltz
Dear Mike,
God is in full control, thus He is Sovereign.
He allowed sin, had He not, Adam would have never fallen.
God created man morally upright [Ecclesiastes 7;29].
Adam had a free will, but when he sinned it became enslaved to his sinful nature. Thus we do not have free will, but still bear the responsibility not to sin.
That is why Salvation is by blood and by power.
God can either save us or damn us, we are at his disposal.
God is Not at man’s disposal, to accept or reject.
If God had not chosen men to salvation, none would be saved.
Dr. Paul W. Foltz,
You said, “God is Not at man’s disposal, to accept or reject.” I don’t think the call to accept or reject God necessarily puts Him at man’s disposal, does it? And when people hear the gospel, is this not the choice laid before them? Jesus called people to follow Him who chose not to do it (i.e. the rich young ruler & others). I understand man’s will is in bondage, but isn’t this the reason the Holy Spirit empowers our testimony & convicts people of sin, righteousness, & judgment? (John 14-16)
And yes, yes, I understand the pat reformed answers about sovereignty. My point is that we throw “sovereignty” around as some kind of debate trump card, right? These hardline, 8-point Calvinists in the SBC act like the SBC is in decline because other scholars, pastors, & theologians are not also hardline Calvinists. There’s room for more than Calvinism-with-fangs in the SBC, or at least there should be.
Mikes last blog post..ecclesiastes and the alcohol debate?
MIKE,
There is no call to accept or reject Christ. There is the effectual call to the heart of the elect sinner unto salvation.
Having rejected this truth and that of the Doctrines of Grace which are the pith and marrow of The Gospel, and having substituted your own opinion and ideas above God’s revealed truth, I have nothing more to say to you, than this; May God open your poor, obstinate, self-willed heart to His Truth
before it is to late, and you drift off into total apostasy, to wh8ich there is no cure but judgment.
dr. paul w. foltz,
from where did you receive your doctorate? that one is simply out of curiosity.
you said, “I have nothing more to say to you, than this; May God open your poor, obstinate, self-willed heart to His Truth
before it is to late, and you drift off into total apostasy, to wh8ich there is no cure but judgment.” (i cut & pasted, so the grammatical mistakes were already there)
we have something in common. we both recognize that i, mike, have a poor, obstinate, self-willed heart. i agree. i need God’s mercy, no doubt. question – does that just describe me, or does it also describe you? calvinism is at its best when it recognizes the fallenness of all people & the necessity of God’s mercy through the cross. calvinism is at its worst when it has fangs & calls other christians “obstinate” & so forth, when it snickers as it talks about God judging other sinners.
Jesus called men to follow Him who rejected that call, including the rich young ruler, the one who wanted to bury his father first, the one who needed to hear that the Son of man had nowhere to lay his head, and others. this same Jesus died for all people. “For Christ’s love compels us, since we have reached this conclusion: if One died for all, then all died. And He died for all so that those who live should longer live for themselves, but for the One who died for them and was raised” (2 Cor. 5:14-15)
i believe in the sovereignty of God. I DO NOT believe in limited atonement, and therefore i am not a full-fledged calvinist. but, i believe the SBC has room for hardline calvinists, softer calvinists like myself, and even Bible-believing arminians. i am not sure why you are so easily offended at my seemingly milk-toast comments, but if i have offended you, i apologize. but, as long as Baptist blood flows through my veins, no outside authority is going to demand that i believe one way or another. no sir. but, i am willing to dialogue about. that is part of what the SBC needs.
please, brother, let God be the Judge. let you and me recognize our mutual sinfulness, our neediness as fallens children of adam, & our lack of omniscience. moreover, let us dialogue, not resort to theologically-sophisticated namecalling or finger-pointing.
mike
Mikes last blog post..ecclesiastes and the alcohol debate?
Gentleman,
Ya’ll are having a very interesting conversation. And while it may be an important one, it serves to underscore what I have said to pastors in my letter. Lost in the nuances of your “deep theological discussions” is the simple gospel. How can congregants hear the gospel? You would rather be right than obedient to the simple proclamtion of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
As a member of the laity by my own choice, I want to be inspired by hearing the gospel. Other congregants want to be reminded of the gospel. We want to be saturated with the gospel.
While I may hold to the solas and the doctrines of grace I would much rather hear a gospel message from an Arminian than a sermon from a Calvinist about why “calvinism is right because…” And I would rather listen to a Charismatic speaker bring the gospel than having to hear another diatribe about the “ills of calvinism”.
The borish arguments are killing the churches of the SBC.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Start with an Apology
Mike, in deference to what Brother Hart commented it’s time for us to quit our debate.
But I close with this; there are 2 calls, the General [OUTWARD] and the
Effectual [INWARD] Call.
Let’s let others go on from here. look at my blogs through one-
freegracepreacher@blogspot.com
check out my profile and look at my 4 other blogs.
e. scott hart,
i sympathize with what you are saying, but i do not fully agree with it. our churches need to emphasize the gospel again, yes, but christians need to hear the message of the whole Bible as well. some suspect that the current decline is a result of the fact that the SBC became a mile wide but an inch deep – lots of conversions, but no theological teaching or discipleship training (or little of it, not necessarily none). so, all those converts we’ve celebrated have not been given the tools to keep up the work, and now we are in decline.
that said, we need theological discussions and discipleship training. but, if we have these things, the question becomes “from whose perspective?” thus, our convention needs dialogue. our problem has been that conservatives with different theological leanings have not had much dialogue.
you may be right in calling the discussion borish. but, look at my comments again & i think you’ll realize i was fighting – i was making a plea for more dialogue and the acceptance of more theological leanings in the SBC. i never said my way is the right way, in fact look again and you’ll see the opposite.
last thing. if we get away from doing theology, we’ll soon get away from evangelism. liberalism got away, then changed the definition of the gospel, and then (and now) churches are claiming to share the gospel when in reality their so-called “gospel” says NOTHING of Jesus’ necessary, substitutionary atonement to pay for sins. i just don’t think that it’s time to quit doing theology, nor will it ever be that time.
sincerely, & humbly,
mike
Mikes last blog post..ecclesiastes and the alcohol debate?
and i forgot something
you said, “You would rather be right than obedient to the simple proclamtion of the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
brother, this is a strong accusation, but i assure you it is not so with me. i don’t want to be right more than i want to be obedient to the gospel. i want to get it right so that i may indeed be able to be obedient to the gospel. there is a huge difference.
Mikes last blog post..ecclesiastes and the alcohol debate?
Excellent emphasis on discipleship. I stand in complete agreement with that. A quick run through sermon series titles from this weekend on various sites of churches I am familiar with, highlight what I am talking about:
Parenting (a series from the Proverbs)
Worship
Stewardship (third time this year)
Now please don’t misunderstand. I know these can all gospel saturated. I know from first hand knowledge and accounts that two of the above examples are NOT saturated with the gospel even though there are multiple times in each sermon that could be — SHOULD BE — a time to present the gospel.
As I stated in my letter, I am sorry if someone has hurt feelings but I stand by my thesis — for which I do not apologize. If someone thinks this is accusatory then do as I suggested in my letter and bring introspection to your own sermonizing.
If you think a proper understanding of theology is important — I do — then if you can unashamedly show your theology starts with the gospel message first, and hence from God, then preach on.
E. Scott Harts last blog post..Start with an Apology
Bro. Hart,
That’s the concise, proper response to Mike’s letter and sermonizing.
I join you in praying for him.
Keep up the good work.
God bless you and your family.
In His Grace,
Dr. Paul W. Foltz
Having just read your letter of condemnation toward all Southern Baptist pastors charging us with not preaching the gospel faithfully, I am thankful that the Word of God is still true.
There is therefore now NO condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
I am glad that I go to bed tonight clothed in the righteousness of Christ and free from all condemnation – even that which your judgmental letter tries to heap on me.
Dave Millers last blog post..Divorced Men CAN Serve as Pastors, Elders and Deacons
He did not condemn All Pastors in the SBC, But was stressing the need to get back to basics proclaiming the Gospel, so that God’s sheep will hear the effectual call, and come into the fold.
God has sheep, we are to preach The Word, so that they may hear and come in.
Effectual call?
Are we going to preach TULIP or Jesus? There is a difference.
Mikes last blog post..can a stalled economy help us refocus?
Mike,
I need a little help here… You say:
“i don’t want to be right more than i want to be obedient to the gospel. i want to get it right so that i may indeed be able to be obedient to the gospel.”
Then you say:
“Effectual call?
Are we going to preach TULIP or Jesus? There is a difference.
“
Mike are you questioning the doctrine of “Effectual call”? And are you saying that those who preach the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) are not preaching Jesus?
Grace Always
Greg Alfords last blog post..Calvinism in the SBC- An Open Letter to Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines
Author; Dr. Paul W. Foltz
Comment;
Mike,
The effectual call is ”Come unto Jesus” to those God gave Christ [John 17].
The Holy Spirit acts as the womb, to bring forth a new creature in Christ.
The word ”brethren” means ”womb fellows.”
i’m saying this. when i talk to one of my neighbors about Jesus, or someone at the park, or wherever, i don’t use phrases like “effectual call.” that’s not part of the gospel. it’s a theological construct to help explain some people’s perspective of how the elect respond to the gospel and get saved.
here’s the gospel i share with people. i don’t have a specific way i share Jesus every single time, but i believe i have to get these elements in every evangelistic encounter, else it’s just an encounter, not necessarily an evangelistic one.
1. sin – i make sure to explain how everyone is a sinner, & what the consequences of this will be according to the Bible.
2. God’s love – this my “but!” segway in evangelism. God, the one against whom we’ve transgressed, has done something about our sins.
3. Jesus – here’s where i explain how Jesus came, lived the perfect life we cannot, pay for our sins (which we cannot), and rose again.
4. right now – here I explain that God can save right now, and i ask if they’re willing to accept Christ and start living for Him.
that’s a nutshell. i know people on here know the gospel (of course we should never make this assumption), yet i lay it out like so as to say, here goes, no. i do not believe effectual call is part of the preaching Jesus, it is not part of the gospel. you asked if i believe it. doesn’t matter. there should be room for “free-willers” and “hardcore calvinists” in the SBC if we can agree on the message needing to be preached to the lost (among other things).
this has been my point all along. calvinism is not the gospel. it may be correct, it may be part of the story, but it’s not the messag we preach to the lost. that’s still Jesus, right? so, i think there’s room in the SBC for hard calvinists, soft calvinists (probably where i stand), and even good ‘ol free-willers.
dr. foltz, as you said earlier about me, i still need prayer. i agree. and i am everything you said above: “poor,” “obstinate,” and “self-willed.” so, like you said you’ll do, please keep praying for me, brother.
but i still stand on my belief that the SBC has room for different theological beliefs. oh, and Greg, to answer you question, i think many who adhere to the doctrines of grace (and please, just say calvinism if that’s what you mean) preach Jesus and are very evangelistic. in fact, some of my hard calvinist friends have helped me with evangelism as much as anybody. but, that doesn’t mean the “doctrines of grace” are the gospel. calvinism is a theological construct, one that is honorable for taking into account some difficult passages that many would just brush aside, but still a systematic, theological construct.
anyone else wanting to call me obstinate, step up and fire away. 10 years ago i was lost, smoking pot, and didn’t have a clue what the doctrines of grace even were, so call me “poor” and “self-willed” as well, but get in line behind dr. foltz (where is your doctorate from again?).
Mikes last blog post..can a stalled economy help us refocus?
Mike,
You will get no argument from me… Preach Jesus and trust God for the results my brother… My prayer is that the long war against Calvinism in the SBC will end and we can indeed live in peace within the Convention.
I was saved an Arminian and did not know that I had became a Calvinist until someone pointed it out to me by accusing me of belonging to a Cult… which I soon discovered at my “inquisition” that they understood that Calvinism was a Cult. When I ask where in the world they (my Deacon Board) got such an idea they told me that the Director of Missions (DOM) of our local association informed them about Calvinism after seeing a copy of Calvin’s Institutes on the shelves of my study. What’s Funny is that at that time I had not even read anything by Calvin… I had just purchased my copy of the Institutes and had no idea that I was supposed to read that cursed work in a dark closet by candle light.
Have you ever noticed how Calvinist are called “Hard”, “Hyper”, “Aggressive”… yet the Arminians are called “good ‘ol free-willers”. I really do not know how many “good ‘ol free-willers” in the SBC have ever been attacked and put out of their pulpits by “Hard, Hyper, or Aggressive Calvinist”, but the number of Calvinist that have been attacked and put out of their pulpits by “good ‘ol free-willers” in the SBC is without doubt substantial.
With that… Preach Jesus My Brother, Preach Jesus!
Grace Always,
Greg Alfords last blog post..Calvinism in the SBC- An Open Letter to Johnny Hunt and Jerry Vines
greg,
thanks for the clarification of where you’re comin’ from. i’ve heard “hard calvinism” as a non-judgmental way of meaning you accept all 5 points, and “soft” as a designation meaning you accept 3 or 4. i’ll do well to keep in mind that my terminology might be heard differently from people in different circles than mine.
yeah, i think there’s room for both views. thanks for hearing that part of my (over)lengthy comment. i was blessed to pastor a small church in missouri with mature lay-people who stood on both sides. the same people who could have lively discussions (lively, but rarely heated) over this were also able to sit down, worship together, eat together, work together, and even evangelize togther. that was also eye-opening.
yeah, i agree with the post, that ministers need to own some of the blame for decline. and, like yourself, i think the answer is preaching the gospel, building our theology from there, and continuing to dialogue about which matters are central and which have room for multiple positions, like the order of salvation.
thanks for your response, i appreciate it.
mike
Mikes last blog post..can a stalled economy help us refocus?
Brother Mike,
Neither do i discuss the Doctrines of Grace with sinners. They need only hear THAT THEY’RE LOST, UNDER GOD’S WRATH, THAT CHRIST DIED FOR SINNERS, AND THEIR ONLY HOPE IS TO SUE FOR MERCY, ON THE BASIS, CHRIST DIED FOR SINNERS.
TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION MY DD IS FROM GOSPEL BAPTIST
MISSIONS, KNOXVILLE, TN, SIGNED BY WILLIAM L HARVEY PHD PRESIDENT/FOUNDER. It is a honorary doctorate Given for 40 years of service.
Greg Alford,
Your presentation of Calvinists as innocent victims under attack by anti-calvinist forces just does not match up with reality. For the record, I believe in the sovereignty of God in salvation, though I am not crazy about the tag calvinist because I believe there is much weak doctrine that parades under that umbrella today.
SBC calvinists sometimes make their own problems by being overly-aggressive, dismissive and condescending to those who have not seen the light and seeming more interesting is growing calvinism than in growing the church.
I don’t doubt that anti-calvinists have done some bad things, but your presentation of the situation is slanted and, I think, unfair.
Dave Millers last blog post..Divorced Men CAN Serve as Pastors, Elders and Deacons
Brother Miller,
When did the Holy Ghost put you in charge. Your assessment of Brother Alford is biased and unfounded.
Although I do not agree with Greg on everything, I have found him to be a man of upmost integrity, with a love and compassion for the lost and for his fellow believers.
He stands up for what he believes, and since when is that being overaggressive/
You owe him an apology for your personal attack.
@ Paul,
How many people have great truthful things to say but are tuned out by those who need to hear it because of their presentation?
As a Calvinist myself, I must admit that I am guilty of being too loud at times. I must be careful in the future not to come across to others as you have come across to me in this thread.
Thanks,
CC
The best thing a church can do is preach the Gospel of God, not the gospel of John Calvin. Since they’re the opposite, the choice should be easy to the one who ‘believes’ the Word (God) is Sovereign (the truth).
It hard to believe that God was Sovereign to Mr. Calvin when in his opinion (judgment) of the Word at John 6:29, he says, “First, it is plain enough that Christ does not speak with strict accuracy, when he calls faith a work, just as Paul makes a comparison between the law of faith and the law of works,” (See Calvin’s opinion of the inspired Word of truth by Paul at Romans 3:27.)
Unlike Pilate, Mr. Calvin saw fault in the Word (Christ), and reformed (corrected) it/him to fit a faith of his own (that faith ‘is not’ a work to be accounted as merited by a man and rewarded). (See Abraham at Gal 3:6/James 2:23 and Heb 11:6)
Anyway, Calvinism isn’t called the “reformed” faith for nothing. I for one refuse to have my faith (the Word of God) reformed (corrected) by any man.
As for a decline of membership or attendance in our churches, it seems that Christians today are in hiding, and ‘people in general’ simply don’t want to go to church. More signs of the times….?
But pastor, you’re right, just preach the gospel of God to all the people you can, as if they’re all your children and you love them and want them all to have eternal life with you and the Lord, and I’ll bet you’ll be called a faithful servant.
Jeannie, I don’t know where you got your information from, but it is WRONG.
There is no conflict between The Doctrines of Grace and the Gospel.
I have never read anything by Calvin. But I see the Doctrines of grace in The Scriptures. The Sinner is spiritually Dead [Eph. 2;1]. A dead man can do nothing. The Holy Spirit quickens those given to Christ [John 17] so they can hear, believe, and receive Christ.
Brother David,
I simply shared my very “personal” experience…
It was not my intent to demonize non-Calvinist in anyway, I have many non-Calvinist friends in the SBC (those who believe somewhere between 1 and 4 point of Calvinism). I was simply trying to draw attention to truth that many Calvinist Pastors have quietly been suffering an unjust and ongoing persecution in the SBC at the hands of those who are aggressive and belligerent Anti-Calvinist.
Brother David, it has broken my heart to see what has been done to some of the most humble, gracious, and kind men of God in the SBC; all because they dared to believe what they found in the Scriptures and what their forefathers believed. Yes, I know there have been Jerks among us Calvinist and I really have no sympathy for them when they have gotten the boot, but for every Calvinist Jerk that lost his pulpit, I know a dozen who were not Jerks and did not deserve to be treated with such hostility and disrespect.
Grace Always,
Greg Alfords last blog post..Voddie Baucham on The SBC and Calvinism
Do you believe Calvin practiced doctrines of Grace? If so, you haven’t studied his life. As the sovereign of Geneva, his grace was cruel. Whereas Christ died for the ungodly, Calvin burned them instead.
No Calvinist should complain that he’s not well received in other churches, be they Southern Baptist or whatever. WHAT are they doing in our churches anyway? We don’t want their doctrines and they don’t want ours. As far as our churches go, Calvinists need to mind their own business, like the other Christian cults do.
2 Pet 2:1-3 explains Calvinists in our churches….
Thanks for all the comments and passionate discussion. This thread is getting too long for me to moderate at present, so I’m closing comments on this post.
I’m sure these issues will come around again, probably soon.