Dear Dr. Mohler,
I am writing to you in this medium, because the likelihood of you meeting with me face-to-face is quite low. Moreover, your public remarks require my public response.
Sir, you said during the 2016 election cycle, to support then candidate, Donald J. Trump, would cause evangelicals to lose moral credibility. You also said if you were to support him, you would owe President Bill Clinton an apology, given your judgement of his character. Now, you are endeavoring to be president of the SBC, and suddenly, you announced not only your support for Trump, in 2020, but that you would vote Republican for the foreseeable future. Given your position, as well as the position you endeavor to hold, you did not have to voice support for any candidate or party, in 2020. Further, I think it would have been wise for you not to do this.
- You owe Clinton an apology. Not to give him one speaks of lack of integrity on your part.
- Given your influence among Southern Baptists and white evangelicals, as a whole, you have inextricably tied the evangelical movement to the Republican Party, for better or for worse, and,
- Your book, “Conviction to Lead” no longer has a place in my library. It wreaks of hypocrisy and ecclesiastical opportunism.
It grieves me to say you have, in my estimation, lost all moral credibility. You no longer have a prophetic voice. Now, you simply blend in with popular, politicized evangelical thought. Rather than being an apologist for the Gospel, you have become an apologist for political conservatism. Your assertion that a vote for Trump or a Republican candidate is THE expression of a Biblical world view is myopic and tribalistic.
You once had my high respect, though we disagreed on some secondary and tertiary issues. As a Louisville pastor for 21 years with affiliation within the Louisville Regional Baptist Association, Kentucky Baptist Convention, and some involvement in the SBC, I am deeply disappointed. I feel like ripping your chapter out of the book, “Removing the Stain of Racism from the Southern Baptist Convention.” It is all meaningless chatter, empty rhetoric to me now.
There was a time I was working toward stronger involvement within the SBC, through the Cooperative Program. Due, in part, to your recent remarks, I am placing this on hold. As an African-American of evangelical theology, I lack confidence in your leadership in the area of Biblical justice.
I pray the Holy Spirit convict you in this area. I say all of this with every ounce of love and respect I can muster as your brother in Christ.
Sincerely,
Rev. Joel A. Bowman, Sr.
Founder & Senior Pastor
Temple of Faith Baptist Church
Louisville, Kentucky
To all concerned: As has been indicated in this comments section, I am an SBC pastor, and my church is a member church. For those who would call this a “vicious” letter, I say you have a right to your opinion. Further, I would say, there are a number of things Jesus did that were probably seen as vicious, such as when he chased the money changers out . That was not vicious, but necessary. If only we were as aggressive defending the cause of the Gospel and Scripture as we are defending our ideological idols and tribes.
We had a discussion last night and realized this post would raise hackles. But we are SBC Voices. This represents a valid opinion among Southern Baptists, especially minority Baptists. Many of them are deeply hurt by this action.
I realize this is a strong opinion. Honestly, while I agree with some of it I do not agree with it in total.
But would it be better for me to suppress this opinion and refuse to let it be aired or post it so that Southern Baptists can realize what is happening in the minority community? Those voices should be heard.
To me, the question is whether Mohler shifted his views out of conviction, or in a desire to seek power in the SBC – running for president in a strongly majority pro-Trump convention.
Of course, the Mohler loyalists believe that he acted out of principle, and we’d all like to believe that. Others, not enamored with what appears to be a convenient political shift, question his motives. Certainly, the author here seems to lean to the second group.
That is where I am not fully in alignment with him. He seems to have settled on the less noble reasons. I have doubts and suspicions, but I am not ready to join him in making final evaluations. I’m surprised, a bit disappointed, but not quite convinced of the author’s view. I am not sure he is right, and I’m certainly not sure he’s wrong. I just do not know.
Has it ever occurred to anyone to pick up the phone and ask him, or is blog open letters the means by which people communicate with one another?
People only tend to raise this issue when they disagree. Pastor Bowman addressed this in his piece.
I can say that after Dr. Mohler announced his candidacy, I sent him a list of questions. They were certainly not softball questions – they were tough questions that people were asking. But I sent him a list of questions and received NO RESPONSE at all from him. Not a word.
He did not say he would answer. He did not say he would not. He did not respond in ANY way to our request for answers.
So, yes, an open letter seems to me to be the best way. I am not sure that attempting to communicate with Dr. Mohler would have worked.
In my experience, it does not.
If you truly believe that “minority Baptists” should be heard on this issue, why not voices like Virgil Walker who takes a different position of Pastor Bowman? Shouldn’t THOSE voices be heard too?
Is someone suppressing or silencing Mr. Walker? Is he being censored?
The simple answer is until he insulted Voices dishonestly today on Twitter, I had never heard of him. He has not submitted a post to us. If he submitted a post that was reasonably written, free of the kind of dishonest insult he employed today, and assuming he is a Southern Baptist, I would consider running it. I have no idea who he is. My initial impression of him was not favorable. But if he is a Southern Baptist with a viewpoint stated fairly, fine.
But Tom, I hope you understand that on this blog we seek a variety of viewpoints and “conforms to Tom Buck’s rigid views” is not one of our rubrics.
Pastor Bowman express HIS views. They are not your views, which you made clear when you called me the worst kind of racist today. Just because his views are not your views does not mean his views are wrong and it does not mean we should not publish them.
I believe that the SBC will benefit from MoRE than Tom Buck’s opinions being published, so we will continue to post viewpoints you do not agree with.
Dave, once again you twist what happened to suit your narrative. I actually said “IF you’re accusing me of being bothered by this article because it was written by a black man (minorities), THEN you’re a racist of the worst kind.” I said this because you accused me of not wanting to read Or agree with Bowman’s article BECAUSE he was a minority. I consider THAT racist. But you conveniently leave that out of your comment here to make yourself look better. I then said I should not have called you a racist… even though you did me.. .but that you were a “race baiter.” I stand by that. And just look at how you use my name in your comment to attack me. You are blind to your own hypocrisy. Show me an article from a minority on your blog that gives a view that isn’t in lockstep with the current race narrative in the SBC.
Tom, your version here has almost no relationship to actual facts – it is fantasy worthy of “May the Fourth.” I am tired of responding to you and I am moving on to people who want to edify the Body.
Dave, I thought this site was SBC Voices? Why do we have an independent Pastor writing such a letter being posted by this website? No offense, if you not in the SBC, we should not have to listen to such a vicious letter. This letter needs to be remove quickly.
Apparently you didn’t read the letter. Reverend Bowman is an SBC pastor.
Thanks Ryan I misunderstood his comment about getting involved in SBC. I gladly receive his comments as a fellow SBCer! Have a great day!
Weather he and his church is an official member church of the SBC is in question. According to reports of CP giving and LM giving his church has given zero since 2005. I think that would not constitute a member church. However I have no problem with his article being posted, just not sure he nor his church is offical SBC…Maybe the reports are wrong?
They are affiliated with association and state convention. As I understand it, their state convention affiliation is tenuous. That is what was injured by the Mohler flip-flop.
Permit me to say something here. We have NO hard and fast rule that contributors must be SBC. Posts must be of interest to our convention. That is our call.
In general, we are by SBs for SBs. Our contributors are all S B C. But we have in the past and will again take submissions from outside the fold.
Excellent letter. With tough questions that need to be answered.
Still waiting for a rescinding of the endorsement or an apology to former President Clinton.
Based on Dr. Mohler’s previous remarks either one or the other is due.
Is this SBC Voices or Babylon Bee? So hard to tell these days.
So, any opinion not agreeing with yours is ridiculous? I usually delete comments that refuse to engage, but simply insult. Either add to the conversation or don’t. Comments like this are unnecessary, intellectually lazy and unChristlike.
Taking the points in order:
1: Absolutely. Mohler said it, he should make good on this.
2: Disagree. This has already been the case for a long time. Mohler is simply falling in line.
3: Never read it.
Bill Mac, the SBC in her annual meetings have felt less political(at least to me) in recent years, except for the Pence appearance, about 3 yrs ago. Under JD Greear, it really seemed politically neutral or unaligned. The recent Mohler confession of viewing the Republican platform as reflective of a “Christian worldview,” & his public pronouncement of his switch to not voting for Donald Trump in ‘’16 to voting for him in ‘20…gives the feeling that partisan politics has returned full force to the SBC.
Please intercedes and be peace one another with love and truth in the name of Jesus Christ ” The Prince of Peace “. At this point, I am worthy to intercede among you all the faithful church leaders and Christian leaders. Biblically and historically, God chose and used some of the kings, priests, prophets, and some ordinary peoples to lead, to rules and to rebuild political corruption, civil & social corruption, and religious corruption.
Today, as we have read Rev. Joel addresses an article to Dr. Mohler on May 4, 2020, I encourage you to read an article that Dr. Dave Miller’s articles Part I on April 18, 2020, Part II on April 21, 2020, and Part III on April 29, 2020, he wrote.
By Dr. Dave Miller – Quotes: I genuinely believe that the 2020 political season has the power to divide us as Southern Baptists if we let it if we act the way we did in 2016. I haven’t changed my convictions, but I don’t think it is about convictions. It is about the way we interact with one another, the way we honor or fail to honor one another, the way we disagree. I am trying to do better this time around. I hope you will as well.
Glory to God Almighty on the highest heaven, peace on earth, and goodwill to all peoples.
Sincerely, an Evangelist & Missionary, Zam Joseph.
What has changed since the election of Donald J. Trump? The list is long and worthy of observation. At the top of that list is the preeminent issue of abortion. Christians can legitimately say that hatred in any form (ethnic hatred, abortion) is a worthy litmus test for both secular and sacred leadership. (being Republican or Democrat is not)
Also, Donald Trump has made a “public” profession, “I am a Christian”. If we are to believe that profession, (how many dismissed Saul?) he now needs spiritual leadership and discipleship. Paula White (among other seed-faith Genies) is allowed into his inner circle. How scary is that? NOW THEN–I just listed 3 post election changes Al Mohler has calculated as have you and I.
Now more than ever President Trump needs the prayers and good will of all people who value life and eschew immorality at the level of abortive services up until physical birth. He needs theologians who can balance orthodoxy with robust orthopraxy, especially in our Post-Christian society. Endorsing Donald Trump or Republicans is not to be equated with endemic racism unless one bought into the system.
Pastor Bowman may be touting Democratic Party rhetoric and seemingly joining the majority of black America in minimizing the evil and horrific impact of abortion on the world. (check out some AME leadership beliefs)
There is nothing about Republican party morality that is worthy of unilateral support except for the fact that it stands on the right side of the fence concerning right to life for the most vulnerable among us. The Democratic party is now synonymous with unsurpassed evil. They vote and applaud this way. Does this not mean anything egregios to you? The Democratic party continues to pander (worse than outright prejudice) the black community and few complain.
No, pastor, none of these lofty ideals for sin-filled mankind are meant to be an excuse for allowing other injustice and prejudice to remain without a proper sermon. That job is ours to do and your letter fails the test. Moral credibility is earned and modeled. Let’s you and I show the good president and Al Mohler how it is done. Of a certainty, I will fail at this before you.
Brother,
Respectfully, in 2015 we had Republican majorities (at least until Jan 2019) in the House, majority of governorships, majority Supreme Court, majority of state legislatures, and all that plus the White House since Jan 2017. They haven’t done a single thing about abortion in all that time. I’m not inclined to give another four years to this intentionally divisive of a president when in the past four with Rs claiming majority more often than not taken no action.
Thank you! I’ve felt this way for a while. The Republicans trot the abortion issue out every election cycle. They never do anything about it because if they did, it would take away one of their main controlling topics. How else would they get people to the polls if abortion wasn’t an issue anymore?
I’m not trying to sound cynical, just realistic.
Can’t a brother change his mind?
Well, it seems his standard is “biblical justice”. A rephrase of “social justice” I imagine. No President Trump does not support such ideology. I do not know if he supports Mohler but Vodie Bachman would certainly disagree with this pastor. The whole idea that Mohler owes Clinton an apology is childish. When one drops the level of discourse in that way it also causes a loss of credibility. President Trump not only claims to be a Christian but has lifted up Christ from the Rose Garden on at least two separate occasions and then there is Easter and Christmas times as well. The President is not only pro-life but he backs the churches, stands for freedom, Individual rights, knows how to get the economy going, and among other things he works for free. There are many reasons to support the President. I did not vote for him in 2016 either. The President has turned out to be far different than I thought he might be. When Social Justice becomes the standard and then it is hidden or minimized as the primary or even only cause of disagreement by hyper-criticism then we also lose our credibility.
These are Al Mohler’s words, verbatim, in 2016
“If I were to support, much less endorse Donald Trump for president, I would actually have to go back and apologize to former President Bill Clinton.”
Those saying that an apology is old aren’t being childish. They are simply holding Dr. Mohler accountable for his words. Something he, correctly, does with others on a regular basis.
https://www.vox.com/2020/3/9/21151095/black-women-trump-gop-conservatism-gap-2020
President Trump has the highest approval ratings of any Republican in history. I am linking this article from Vox as they are a progressive site but there are many articles about the increased minority support for President Trump. Mohler has done something I have long advocated, he changed his mind based on the issues and results. Do not know his motive but I do not think he did this for political convenience, unless he is a total fraud. To save space I had a long series of back and forth comments with Bill Mac on Dave MIllers final theses blog . It is all about voting for Trump on the issues. Actually I think it took courage for Mohler to change his position based on issues and policies presented and acted upon by President Trump. The SBC should have never gotten involved so heavily in politics However, everyone must vote their own conscience and I can understand the Pastor’s position.
“Actually I think it took courage for Mohler to change his position”
I will ask this again (I asked on a previous post). What is courageous about this? Is he espousing an unpopular opinion? Is he going against the majority? Does he stand to lose anything by taking this new position? No on all counts. He is falling in line with the majority of the SBC. Regardless of whether he is right or wrong to do so, following the crowd is hardly courageous. If he follows through on his pledge to apologize to Bill Clinton, now that would be courageous. Keeping your word often is.
Bill Mac, the courage part is opening himself up for the flip flop, changing mind for political convenience and being up front about it. He could have just said he was going to not comment in 2020 . Most SBC members will not know or care about Mohler position one way or the other, or would they care.
BTW, thanks for your thoughtful comments on Dave Miller blog . I appreciate you sharing your views.
Steve: Should he apologize? Would that not be courageous? Owning his words?
The important thing is, does Mohler think he needs to apologize ? If he feels the apology is sincere and helpful that is up to him. To many people give an apology as a pretext to move on. However , the point is 90 percent of the SBC members do not know about Mohler and this issue and do not care.
Would I apologize, yes, like this ” I apologize to President Clinton for using my moral standards to judge his performance and ability to handle the office of the POTUS. I was unwise in making public a personal moral standard that I thought needed to be maintained. We live in a representative democracy and the majority of citizens were satisfied with the action of Clinton on issues, policy and performance then that is our system. It is clear that morality is indeed in the eye of the beholder in our current society. The voters in America set the bar on the moral conduct of their elected officials.”
“The important thing is, does Mohler think he needs to apologize?”
Ah, yes, the well-known evangelical position that a man’s word is only binding if *he* thinks it ought to be binding. Of course!
I look forward to the magisterial tome you will surely produce, applying this principle to every other area of morality and, indeed, theology.
This is NOT the “DAVE MILLER” blog. For crying out loud, William posts here more often than I do. I am, technically, the owner now, but we operate by consensus and each author is responsible for the content of his (or her) article.
THIS IS NOT THE DAVE MILLER BLOG.
“THIS IS NOT THE DAVE MILLER BLOG.”
Steve was referring to a line of comments in one of your Nailed Theses articles.
Oops.my bad
Stephen Jones, Thank you for explaining my mangled description. You hit the nail on the head. Appreciate it. I think Dave Miller is an honest broker and a very fair moderator, who puts up with a lot. I have respect for what he does. Thanks again.
Many Blacks, preachers and others, are supporting President Trump because until COVID-19 Black unemployment was at historic lows; Trump’s support and funding of historically Black colleges; prison reform; his court appointments/nominations (federal and Supreme Court); support of religious liberty; pro-life support, and general conservative direction.
You have a right to be anti-Trump. Don’t others have a right to vote for Trump?
David R. Brumbelow
Of course. But if someone says they are going to do something, especially a Christian, they should do it.
I guess the religious pious forgot that God changed his mind on important things himself on a few occasions. I can think of three times right off the bat. Moses interceded on one of those occasions.
Can you try commenting without either a blatant or implied insult against those who disagree?
By the way, pious is not an insult. It means devout, though many take it to mean insincere.
Dave,
I mean it in a self righteous manner. Remember the prayer of the self righteous? Something about, “God, I thank you that I’m not like THOSE PEOPLE”, vs. The other guy who couldn’t even look up.
Ed Chapman
Why do you feel the need to be disrespectful toward anyone who disagrees.
Dave,
Add a salutation before my name in my comment: Respectfully comma.
Seriously i mean no disrespect. Many see Trump as the enemy, as if he’s possessed by the devil.
It’s amazing at how many people don’t see their own moral failings, but can judge others.
Who is not guilty of committing adultery in their heart? Everyone is guilty of that. But Trump is held at a standard that no one else can pass. Using a Saturday night live church lady saying, Well isn’t that special?
Then to have many actually believe accusations against him without due process… bypassing criminal, going straight to civil, gets money, and a nda, and treat that as an admission of guilt?
I find that Trump is more righteous than your average Christian who refuses to look in the mirror. No disrespect to that Christian at all. Just an observation.
Respectfully,
Ed Chapman
David, the VAST majority of minority Baptists would fall on Pastor Bowman’s side. Just because you can find a minority who disagrees doesn’t negate that position.
“If God doesn’t punish America, He’ll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.”–Ruth Graham
When and why do we hold literal a comment made tongue-in cheek?
How do you know it was tongue in cheek?
Not made tongue in cheek. Here’s the source of the quote. A serious post by Dr. Mohler regarding the 2016 election.
https://albertmohler.com/2016/06/24/character-leadership-still-matter
The point is made. From Al Mohler there is no literal apology forthcoming. Only the ideology of moral comparisons that have morphed considerably over the last 4 years. From President Trump, even a figurative apology for about anything would be a great sign that humility has found a place in his persona.
There are a few sentences from that Mohler piece, just before he says he would have to apologize to Bill Clinton that are almost prophetic:
A rare instance when context makes an excerpt /more/ damaging, not less.
I happened to be listening to Dr. Mohler’s Ask Anything the night he made his statement. He explained his position in detail. He clearly was not bending his argument to the political urgency of the moment, but, apparently, has had a change in his philosophy about voting. Yes, it’s inconsistent, but, of course, we’re all inconsistent when we change our minds about something. There’s a huge difference between hypocrisy and a reasoned decision to change one’s mind. Ironically, we’re all happy when someone changes their mind to agree with us but we’re equally happy to condemn them of hypocrisy when they don’t.
Gus: Changing one’s mind is perfectly understandable, but should he not also make good on his word and apologize to President Clinton after he realized he was wrong?
And it is perfectly understandable for people to be a bit skeptical of a change of heart when a man is running for the presidency of the SBC and the SBC has gone lock stock and barrel into alliance with Trump and with a fervent pro-Trump splinter group making noises in the convention.
This letter and it’s publication on this site is very interesting.
There will always be extreme reactions to various things, particularly in the political arena.
The main thing for most SBCers to do is to remain calm, and not overreact to things like this.
2020 will be a more peaceful year for the SBC so long as entity heads and leaders in the Convention don’t vilify half of us.
And when things like this are published, we just have to recognize that’s one man’s opinion.
And that is why we published it.
Southern Baptists need to realize that other opinions exist. We published this because it was a dissenting opinion.
Yes, I was really wondering where SBC Voices stood on Trump and Mohler’s endorsement of Trump.
You needn’t worry that this opinion – being critical of Mohler’s personal endorsement, is underrepresented on this site.
After all, you have Bill Mac.
And I bet being channeled and all is kind of fun, too.
SBC Voices doesn’t take positions. Our authors do. We published Bart’s piece explaining why he was considering a vote for Trump. We have published articles that I strongly disagree with.
My goal is to post Voices. Not just mine.
Grateful for a platform in SBC life that’s available for diverse voices, with diverse views, to contribute to diverse conversations, within an SBC context. Pastor Bowman is speaking for “one man,” but his message reflects the mindset of the masses who’ve been kissed by the sun. Thankful for his voice, and really thankful for SBC Voices living up to its vision-to provide a voice for all Southern Baptists, including the marginalized.
Well he shares your opinion, that’s for sure.
Btw, are you supporting Biden?
Let’s not get into candidate endorsement
That’s what the whole thing is about. Who’s endorsing whom and why, and whether that’s good.
I consider Dwight a good person, a fellow believer, and a friend.
In this forum, and with this topic, there’s nothing inappropriate in my question.
I would hope Dwight would answer that. He was forthright in saying he voted for Hillary in 2016. We all know who the Dem nominee is going to be.
Dwight, do you plan on voting for Biden?
Louis, I value you, your faith in Christ, our common ground, our being SBC brothers, and our friendship. High, high regard for you, my brother. I have to responses to your inquiry about my voting plans. 1. I honestly have not decided who I will vote for in the presidential election, or even if I will cast a vote in the presidential election. I may vote downline only. 2. I’ve also decided to keep my vote private this election, not sure about future elections yet. Thanks for asking.
*I have two responses….
I respect that for sure.
But please know, I would respect you if you decided to vote for Biden.
God bless.
will you reject Biden then if we cannot endorse?
Are you asking me? I have made it absolutely clear I would not vote for Biden.
This post is not about candidates, it is about Mohler’s position change,
Ryan:
I noticed that the Rev. Bowman is a social worker. Isn’t that what you do?
Have you ever met?
Or do social workers seem to see things in a similar light?
This is a serious question. Lots of people in the same profession see things similarly. Do you find that most social workers dislike Trump?
Btw, I checked out Bowman’s church on the web – Temple of Faith or something like that. An old white church gave him and his church a building. That was nice.
I helped found a church. We were 13 years without a building. It would have been nice to be the recipient of such generosity. The Lord had different plans for us.
This is a really good question Louis.
I would say, as a whole, most of the people who are working in my industry are not Christians at all. So they are very curious as to why, based on their experiences with Christians and Christianity, white evangelicals would fall all over themselves to support President Trump, despite his unapologetic immortality, his personal attacks on people, and his defense of white nationalists as “good people.” It’s very puzzling to them, and to me.
A lot of people in my industry do not like the President. Part of that is from a policy perspective. Some of that is based on worldview. And some of that is based on his words and actions. In large part, we are deeply concerned as advocates for what his policies could potentially do to people already living in poverty.
I hope that does a good job of answering your question. Thank you for it.
Ryan:
Thanks for taking the question as sincere, which it was. And also thanks for answering it.
Most social workers whom I know are funded by government. That’s not a slam, it’s just a fact. They see and come into contact with great human need. Their basic orientation is that more money is needed to help, and they are for the policies that would provide more money to help. So it is understandable.
Reverend Bowman’s short bio says that he has spoken at Baylor and other places re social work. In light of your observation that most of the people you run into in social work are not Christians, I wondered if Rev. Bowman was well known in that field. Had you heard of him? Is there like an organization of Christian Social Workers that you guys belong to?
I had not heard of Reverend Bowman before the letter.
To further clarify, I am not a social worker. i work for a nor for profit that is called a food bank, providing resources for food pantries. My speciality is childhood hunger and I work in both direct and indirect (advocacy) in that arena.
Social workers serve in a variety of contexts- some on full government salaries (like a child welfare worker)- others in private industry. My job has both public and private dollars connected to it. I see where government is helpful in addressing poverty issues which is why I advocate for protecting that funding for people in poverty- especially children, seniors and the disabled.
As far as a Christian Social Workers org goes- there is most likely one. I am not a member. Nor do I know anyone is who. My work, in the arena I serve, may be LESS attractive to Christians because our national affiliation is with a non-religious 501c3. There are plenty of religious social service agencies that may well draw more believers.
That’s one of the reasons why I struggle so much with this President. He makes it VERY difficult for me to defend followers of Jesus as advocates for the poor and marginalized, much less that followers of Jesus embody a strong moral ethic based on the Bible. When people elevate the President to David or say he is the best example of a Christian president ever, or gloss over his affairs, jokes about sexual assault, or his celebrating alt-right orgs as “good people” it puts me in a pretty indefensible position. I have definitely seen a hardening of hearts and a dismissiveness grow in the last 4 years.
It troubles me. I wish it troubled others more. Many of these people are my friends who I love and who I want to see follow Jesus. It makes me honestly wonder sometimes if some Christians truly care about lost people whose politics they don’t agree with (and I don’t mean you Louis, I know you do)
Ryan, there are many possible reasons why people do not support President Trump. But twice you have mentioned something that is discredited: “his defense of white nationalists as ‘good people’ ” & “his celebrating alt-right orgs as ‘good people’.” He did say there were good people on both sides of a particular issue (probably true). He also said, “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.” By the way, thank you for your service in meeting the hunger needs in your area. I have always had some kind of food ministry through the years, and did a student internship in the inner city of Kansas City running a food ministry.
Thank you for your kindness towards my work. I appreciate it very much and I am thankful for any food ministry you have done or are doing. Churches and ministries are the backbone of the emergency food network in our country, which makes the lack of believers in the industry all the more odd and off putting.
I am aware that he made the “not talking about neo-Nazis” statement. However, as I am sure you are aware, he came out and made that statement under pressure and after backlash over his initial statement. And he continues his association with people like Stephen Miller who is described as one of his closest advisors, and allowed Steve Bannon a seat at his table early in his administration, Any digging into these two men and their beliefs would (hopefully) cause anyone, but especially someone of committed faith, great pause, and yet they are allowed to speak into policy and have the President’s ear.
One thing that is almost universally true about the secular poverty alleviation industry is the “amateur wonk factor.” Poverty people dig in on policy. Part of it comes with the territory (we do collaborate with the government in some areas) and some of it is because we have to know and understand the character of the people who are making the rules and decisions. That’s one reason why I can NEVER support Donald Trump. There are people in his administration, that short of conversion by Jesus, are truly bad people- Miller chief among them. And I can’t use my voice to allow anyone who thinks and behaves as he does to remain in a position of influence in our country.
That’s probably more than you wanted to know Stephen. Thank you for the courteous dialogue. I would be happy to answer anymore questions if you have them.
Yes, I am a social worker by trade, and an integrationist, unlike many Southern Baptists (especially from the Reformed tradition). I cannot speak to other social workers’ opinion on Mr. Trump. However, I can state that the profession has always been unapologetic in caring for the marginalized, ethnic minorities, the poor, and the like. The social work profession did not “make” me prescribe to this. I chose to pursue a career in social work because, in many ways, it reflected the values I had previously.
Rev. Joel A. Bowman, you present a conundrum that most people face. I don’t even know where to begin on how to address the lack of discernment I see in many church congregations and church leaders. It would be so easy for me to step on toes. All I will say is that voting or the lack of it, for a particular candidate in 2020, will have either further success on the path we as a country have seen or it will lead to dire consequences. And if it lead to dire consequences, no complaints will be brooked…
The problem is not Mohler the problem is the outright hatred for the current president. That is what needs to be discussed. Why such hatred for the man currently sitting in office, who is actually do a remarkable job as POTUS. And, btw there is a HUGE difference in having unproven accusations thrown at you and receiving oral sex in the Oval Office. lying about it, and then getting caught. Is there not ?
Scott: You might not appreciate the distinction, and I don’t speak for everyone who doesn’t support DJT, but I don’t hate the president. I do hate that he IS president, but that’s a big difference.
So then do you think people should never be challenged openly?
I do not hate President Trump. I have read his tweets and watched him in action. The immorality of President Clinton does not excuse, justify, or rationalize the blatant immorality (he bragged about it in his books), the verbal cruelty and abuse, and the dishonesty of this president.
Frankly, I find your characterization of MY views offensive. Feel free to vote for Trump if you wish, or to hold a different view than I hold. But lying about MY views in a comment like this is offensive.
David also begged for forgiveness. In fact, he offered himself instead of his son. I’ve never seen Trump apologize for anything at all. In fact, he point blank passes the buck when directly asked. The buck never seems to stop near him.
My Dad always told me that who I voted for was nobody else’s business. I have been fortunate in my church experiences in that I’ve never had a pastor who ever even hinted about his political convictions or candidate preferences but always led their churches to pray for those who had been given government leadership positions, including one pastor who was originally from Australia and always prayed for the Queen.
Dr. Mohler is entited to his personal opinion on any subject but when he is speaking as a Bible teacher and as a seminary president, his opinion on matters other than the gospel and ministry is irrelevant. I care a lot about what he has to say when it comes to Southern, as well as his interpretation of the scripture. His political views are nobody else’s business.
The intensity with which some well-known Christian “leaders” seem to be doubling down on Trump support indicates to me that there must be campaign money circulating around somewhere as well as concern that there is a noticeable waning of white, Evangelical support for the President’s re-election. Mohler isn’t the only leader who has been politically active as of late.
I appreciate the space given for comments like this and I am largely in agreement. As a white SBC pastor in a minority majority city statements like Al Mohler’s only reinforce why I feel the need to minimize our connection with the SBC. When someone like Al has a daily podcast that looks to expose unbiblical worldview and then clearly contradicts his own position, it’s a stain on the SBC and churches like ours who minister in diverse cities. I understand position changes that happen over time but when someone of Al’s age and experience flip flops on a position he had just four years ago, it deserves respectful and clear chastisement.
Not sure why offering an opinion is offensive to anyone. Ignore it. Even Mohler acknowledged that he was changing on this. Not the first time. Give him credit in that his opinions and positions are out there for all to see, moreso than any other Southern Baptist.
I’d be interested to know how many SBC churches are mostly African-American and how many of those are dually affiliated. Just curious. Future growth in the SBC is non-white, seems to me.
Well, the question is how much non-white growth the SBC will see, isn’t it? If it’s seen as the religious arm of the Republican Party, that’s likely to impede its growth among a population that mostly sees the GOP as anti-black, anti-Hispanic, and pro-white.
Whether the SBC /cares/ about that is a whole ‘nother question.
It’s striking that the comments to this article — which expresses a *deep* sense of betrayal on the part of the author and, by proxy, many minority evangelicals — don’t really engage with that sense of betrayal. They don’t ask: /why/ is this the straw that broke the author’s back? Why did the author think there was currently (or that there might soon develop) any daylight between the SBC and GOP?
I, for one, would like to hear Rev Bowman’s answers — and his predictions about what’s next for minority churches within the SBC. Does he see an exodus coming? If so: sudden or gradual?
P.S. I think part of why it’s such a betrayal, although the author can speak for himself of course, is that it signals that Mohler — who /had/ been an influential voice in favor of racial reconciliation — is aligning himself with the wing of the SBC that *loathes* any discussion of racism unless it: A) is in the past tense; or B) is focused mostly on assuaging the wounded feelings of white people, and even then they’re /fiercely/ resistant to the idea that racism might really be a problem.
David Light:
I will take a stab at answer.
When it comes to anti-Trump forces in evangelicalism, there are 2 camps.
Camp 1
One is the traditional evangelical camp. Historically, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Church of God, Pentecostals, all stripes, were against immoral behavior. The big sins were immorality sexually, drinking, and gambling. Cursing is a close fourth. These positions have been around forever. For 150 years or more in the US.
Trump, thrice married, and single at times, and the owner of casinos, is the Devil incarnate. He’s been immoral sexually and he owns casinos. To make it worse, so as not to placate calls to “repentance”, Trump famously said that he didn’t need to ask for forgiveness.
Issues being to appear
But about 40 years ago, around 1980 or so, evangelicals, which previously had measured politicians by the 4 sins almost primarily, began to look more closely at political issues. Previously, they were agnostic on abortion. Saw it as a “Catholic” issue.
This came at a time when the 2 parties were starting to change. Prior to the 1980 election, both parties could count in their tribe people who were theologically and personally conservative, and people who might see issues differently. The main dividing line was the New Deal and the Great Society. That’s not the case now.
The SBC, being primarily in the South, was in many ways the religious political arm of the Democratic party. This had been the case since Jefferson, but certainly since the Civil War. And it continued with Roosevelt, and then LBJ, but you could see the fissures forming.
The big 4 sins were still there. But add to that concerns about safety internationally and the withdrawal from the Vietnam conflict, and safety at home, as the courts consistently imposed legal barriers to stiff punishment for crimes (sins) and religious expression.
Goldwater captured some in the SBC, but the Dems were still very much in control.
The culture began to change, and so the parties began to change with it. By the time Reagan came around, many traditionally conservative people, including people in the SBC, who had been loyal Democrats, began to consider voting for Republicans.
So, when Carter (an SBC layman) ran for reelection against Reagan (a divorced man who rarely attended church), Reagan was elected in a landslide.
Since that time, the Republican party has consistently offered conservative people, including people in the SBC, what they wanted.
The problem came when Trump was openly immoral. Could people who previously supported Republicans on the issues, continue to support a candidate who championed those same issues, but whose public moral life was lacking? Many say “no”. The issues do not trump personal morality.
Well, Trump doesn’t drink, so it’s Casino’s and divorce. That’s the sin? Wow.
You are aware that he has written books about how many women he has bedded…including married women.
Ed, if you’re going to shout, go somewhere else to do it. Disagreement is fine. Endless droning on and shouting is not. Put a lid on it. Thanks.
William,
I never did conform to internet etiquite. I do not consider caps as shouting. Sorry that you do. Empasis, not shouting. I don’t know how to italicize, or bold. So caps it is.
They will be deleted. Take a suggestion, Ed.
William is one of our moderators here, so when he makes such a request, it carries some authority.
And bragged about sexual assault on camera. And defrauded people with a phony university and phony charity. And openly mocked a disabled person on national TV.
I believe godly leaders, like any other citizens, should consistently hold elected officials accountable. If this blog is reflective of the SBC, which I believe it is, it seems the “exception clause” would include Republican presidents and/or other elected officials. This serves as partisan stumbling block for the SBC that has been and will continue to be a hinderance to our Kingdom work . Moreover, this tells me many within the SBC have a higher allegiance to the Republican Party, than to Biblical truth. I would say the same thing if the tables were turned toward the Democratic Party. Neither party, more or less, represents a comprehensively biblical worldview. I doubt I will comment here any further on this matter, as my time is limited, being a family man and bi-vocational pastor. May we, who endeavor to provide a prophetic voice, never give undivided, unqualified loyalty to ANY politician or party. I see at least one of you have done a search on me. I welcome any of you to do a search, as I have done my best to live a life of personal integrity and biblical fidelity. I have nothing to hide and no hidden agenda. Let brotherly love continue!
Joel:
Thanks for expressing your feelings. I wish you the best in your ministry.
Thanks, Reverend!
Amen brother. And thanks for your words and your service.
David Light:
There is a second camp that has developed in the SBC that I would say is more about concerns related to evangelism.
Camp 2
Evangelicals are very desirous of people coming to faith in Christ. It is our main concern. That’s one reason personal morality was so important in candidates, over the positions the candidates took. Evangelicals are always concerned about the idea of adopting some concern of this world and making it so primary, that it is counterproductive. With the continued polarization in the US, evangelicals are always looking to try and reach people who our outside our camp.
The new generation of evangelicals who did not come of age in the Reagan era, but afterwards, are wondering if we are holding political positions that are really not that important, and that maybe if we shifted our focus away from unnecessary, divisive issues, we will have better standing and a better opportunity to reach people.
For them supporting Trump is a huge obstacle. There is a desire to shift the public perception of evangelicals.
This is being attempted by 1) reducing the focus on some issues (abortion, school choice, prayer and religious expression in schools and in public), and 2) emphasizing new issues that are shared by other groups in the culture that are not evangelical (immigration, refugees, responding to race).
Mohler’s endorsement represents a huge retreat and a betrayal that engenders that intense anger you notice.
On the race issue in particular, the issue is not race per se. Evangelicals are not racists. You would have a hard time really finding that. Plus the history of the last 40 years (my adult life) has seen evangelical ministries being among the most racially inclusive. Think Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Christian groups on any college campus.
But because of their views on other issues – economics generally, equal treatment, a dislike and distrust of government programs (adopted from the Reagan era), a substantial number of evangelicals have always disliked addressing race through remedies that are not race neutral, but use race intentionally. Things like affirmative action, quotas, set asides etc. have generally not been favored.
It’s my belief that some in the SBC want to be on the side of using some traditionally liberal remedies or strategies to address race. I believe they thought that Mohler had shifted toward them in this project. But Mohler’s decision to endorse Trump is taken as a blow to that project.
I personally do not see Trump, his election, or his emphasis, as being around the race issue. But the push back to Trump is that he is a racist. Starting with Van Jones on the night of the election – “This is a White Lash”. That has become a major Dem talking point, and it is most effective against people who are trying to do the right thing on the issue of race. So you can see why Mohler’s decision is a major betrayal to them.
You nailed it Louis. Thanks for the summary.
I’d buy non-partisanship in the SBC if we would really be non-partisan. But from what I see, what the non-partisan crowd wants is people to agree with them or else you aren’t a true, gospel focused Christian.
Dr. Mohler is his own worse enemy. He shouldn’t have expressed his presidential choice in 2016 (or his anti-choice) and he shouldn’t have expressed it now in 2020. I don’t know Rev. Bowman’s personal selections for president in 2016 or his choice for 2020, but he is wise to not publish them because it could likely be torn apart as well.
Should Mohler apologize to Clinton? NO! Should he clarify his statement about his needing to apologize to Clinton for now coming out for Trump? YES! Again, he should have kept his personal choices, personal. So should the majority of those in powerful positions.
Many of those attacking Mohler now aren’t going to come out and give us their voting history to allow the blogs to pick their “immoral” choices apart. They aren’t going to come out and defend their choices because most of them know their choices (where Republican or Democrat) couldn’t live under the microscope they’re placing Mohler under now. Having said that, Mohler put himself in this position and has nobody to blame but himself.
I distrust govt. immensely. I’m not sure you could find 10 politicians who are morally and ethically following their stated campaign rhetoric they promised their constituents they would do if elected. This totalitarian quarantine has proven that Politicians crave power and they will blow up the Constitution of this country if the citizenry will allow them to.
Unbelievably, it seems we have and that we will continue to be Orwellian pigs heading to the slaughter. Rant Over!
True Nate, but I think you are being a little harsh. As witnessed by the blog, many are going through the same struggles Al Mohler is. So in that sense it is good for us to see.
What I don’t get is the people acting like unless Mohler comes out and apologizes to Clinton he’s a hypocrite. Uh… be careful what standard you hold others to. It just might come around and slap you in the face one day. I think I read that in Matthew 7 one day.
David Light:
I see that the author of the post actually posted a comment in between my first and second comments to you.
I did not see his comment when I wrote my piece, but you can see his thinking reflects what I have described.
These were *great* responses, yes! Thank you for putting forth… ::clacks an abacus back and forth:: roughly 8,000,000,000,000% more effort in writing them than my initial post deserved.
Thank you for your voice, Pastor Bowman.
I do not think this letter was helpful. Instead I think it’s caused further division. The author acts as though there is another viable alternative candidate but there is unfortunately not. He is asking us to either not vote or vote for someone that in no way shape or for reflects our values. We are dealing with some seriously flawed candidates and we have to come to a decision and be at peace with God with that decision and we will answer to God for it. I would beg the editors of SBCVoices to abstain from articles that have these topics. They are always decisive and unhelpful.
I for one am grateful that people can see not all evangelicals are in the Trump camp. I think it’s important.
Bro. Bowman – your letter was confrontational but (IMO) by no means “vicious.”
And thanks to SBCVoices for living up to your name and publishing this! It’s a valid voice that needs to be heard and weighed.
Alright Scott, I will bite.
In your view, what “personal skills and effective leadership qualities” do you believe that President Trump possesses that many “christian” leaders do not?
Honestly asking.
He can run a casino business into bankruptcy faster than anyone around. As Christians go, I guess that could be considered a positive trait.
Thanks, Joel. Well said. Brace yourself. It’s going to be a rough ride. Rooting for you!
If a comment assigns motives and asserts flawed mental and emotional states to writers and other commentors…best to take that elsewhere. Like the article, don’t like the article – fine.
After some internal discussion, we are closing comments. We are finding productive comments waning and strident comments seemingly taking over.