In 1845, when the American Baptist Home Mission Society, refused the nomination of James Reeve (a slaveholder) the seeds were planted for the birth of a new denomination. By May 1845 white delegates from the deep South gathered (293 in all) together and formed a new mission society—The Southern Baptist Convention. Yes, our beloved denomination was founded because our forefathers wanted to own slaves. Al Mohler is even more pointed when he says:
In fact, the SBC was not only founded by slaveholders; it was founded by men who held to an ideology of racial superiority and who bathed that ideology in scandalous theological argument. (Williams & Jones, 3)
We Southern Baptists have a racist past. We cannot get around this fact. In 1995, on the 150th anniversary of the founding of the SBC, the messengers overwhelmingly approved a resolution condemning racism and apologizing for our past. So is that the end of the story? We asked for forgiveness—now is it up to our African American brothers to grant this forgiveness and bury the past in the past? Shouldn’t we just move on at this point and work towards the future?
Certainly it takes two parties to live in full reconciliation. Unless someone asks for forgiveness and the other person grants that forgiveness you cannot live in reconciliation. But this issue is a bit less black and white (pardon the pun). None of those presently living can truly apologize for the sins of our ancestors past. Nor can another group of people accept that apology. Reconciliation will be a bit more complex than simply passing a resolution and burying our past in the past.
But I want to make an argument today that for the glory of God we should not even want to bury our past in the past. And I want to use the words of a former slave ship captain to make this point.
John Newton was haunted by his past. Nothing he could do could remove the stain of racism that was on his life. Even though he passionately fought to end the slave trade in Europe, Newton was still haunted by the screams which came from the slave ships he captained. On one particular occasion Newton was asked in a letter about how folks could have happiness in heaven when we are fully aware of our sins in the past. This is Newton’s response (and keep in mind that his own involvement with slavery is likely on his mind):
I think those are the sweetest moments in this life, when we have the clearest sense of our own sins, provided the sense of our acceptance in the Beloved is proportionally clear, and we feel the consolations of his love, notwithstanding all our transgressions. When we arrive in glory, unbelief and fear will cease forever: our nearness to God, and communion with him, will be unspeakably beyond what we can now conceive. Therefore the remembrance of our sins will be no abatement of our bliss, but rather the contrary. (Read entire letter here)
When the gospel redeems (and is still further redeeming) an issue in our past we do not want to bury it. We tend to want to bury sins which aren’t yet fully repented of or perhaps those sins which still carry the burden of shame. We want to bury what isn’t yet healed. But our racist past is a stain which Christ is in the process of removing. And every time we see racial reconciliation taking place it is fitting for the glory of God for us to be brutally honest about our past. No need to gloss over it and pretend like our ancestors were not engaging in “scandalous theological argument”. The light of Christ shines bright against our darkened past.
We don’t get sick of hearing about our racist past because we are confident in the provision of Christ. We don’t encourage folks to move on because we see our own sinfulness as a door way to savoring Christ even more. We encourage the light to shine upon our racist hearts (yes, racism for folks of any color of skin). We welcome the “clearest sense of our own sins” because we know it will only further glorify the God who can redeem and rescue such wicked hearts. We don’t tire of fighting for racial reconciliation because we love seeing the work of Jesus.
I’ve still much learning to do in this area, but I’m thankful that no matter how deep things like racism have settled into areas of my heart I know that Christ is always deeper and always sweeter. Even though we might be shocked at what we find in our hearts—he never is. And once He has captivated our hearts they belong to him. In that we can rejoice no matter what is dug up from our past. This and this alone is the foundation of our union with one another.
I agree that one good reason to not avoid the reality of our racist past is that remembering our past sins reminds us of God’s great glory. Another reason is that racism is not just a past issue. There is still racism in our hearts and in our churches. Have we come a long ways? Yes, praise God! Do we have a long ways to go? I think so. We should be thankful for how far the Lord has brought us, but not satisfied. Here is a blog post where I wrote about two relatively recent cases of racism in… Read more »
There was a news story about one month ago where a Black Pastor and a deep rooted southern white have been working together for a number of years to bring the reconciliation to the south over what your article is talking about. I don’t remember the names of the two men or the article itself. I wish I did. I’m hoping someone here does. This story goes to the core of what you’re relating. At the time the white southern met the black minister, the politics was circulating that the whites should resent the blacks for all their advancements they… Read more »
One big difference, Newton was talking about his own sins. These are not our sins, but sins of our ancestors. No Southern Baptist living today has ever owned slaves. The SBC of today has repeatedly spoken against slavery and racism. The Democratic Party was the party of slavery. Yet no one seems to be demanding they continually repent of having supported slavery in the past. Must the SBC repent of racism and slavery every year from now to eternity? How many times must we repent of the same sin? The sin of our ancestors? By the way, in 1845 Southern… Read more »
David, you bring up some very valid points. It is true that no one alive today owned slaves in the past. It is true that as a convention we have publicly repented of racism. And it is true that there can be too much focus on past sins. These good points need to balanced with the truth that there is STILL racism in some of our churches and in some of our hearts. I think the most prevalent manifestation of racism in our churches today probably takes two forms, one a more severe expression of the same basic attitude: 1.… Read more »
David, I think you confuse repent with oppose. It may be that there are those among us in the Anglo majority who have never held racially prejudiced views or have repented of such. There is also likely the case that there are those within the Anglo majority who have not. That being said, I believe it is incumbent upon us as members of the SBC, not only because of our racist history, but also because we need to speak prophetically to ourselves and our culture, to oppose racism whenever and wherever it rears its ugly head. We should do such… Read more »
Scott, thank you. Racism is a sin issue. It’s amazing that everyone who opposes further resolution regarding race are more than supportive to continue promoting and voting for resolutions on other matters of sin. We must be consistently and vocally condemning sin and celebrating the gospel that heals. From race to abortion to homosexuality.
This is how I have “grown” on this issue. If the SBC is going to continually and ever increasingly focus on the issue of the terrible, hateful and indefensible historic racial superiority origins of the SBC in 1845 then the SBC should completely disavow, denounce , vilify and brand the SBC founders and the SBC in a manner such as America has done the KKK and other racist groups. Change the name and disavow any link to the SBC founders and their founding beliefs, it has been proposed before . I am a firm believer in studying history and historical… Read more »
We are the Southern Baptist Convention, and the only reason we are so named is directly related to the support for slavery. Unless and until we are no longer known as the Southern Baptist Convention, our name will always refer to our racist past. A while back I posted a question about why we wouldn’t actually change our name, and it seemed the biggest objection was the cost and legalities of officially changing the entity name. That unless there is a great movement to do so, coupled with a huge influx of cash, we’re stuck with it. Therefore, the only… Read more »
How in the world will children of African Americans ever forget if it is brought up over and over at every turn? We will spend so time and effort acknowledging the past that may be where the effort goes. Why not just go to the local Bible believing black church and merge with them to eliminate any stigma of SBC racial superiority past. The minority cannot be racially prejudiced so why not? The fellowship and unity in belief would erase any conflicts that might arise. Let the existing black church maintain its leadership position with former SBC members as loyal… Read more »
“Why not just go to the local Bible believing black church and merge with them to eliminate any stigma of SBC racial superiority past.”
Sounds like a great idea. Let me know how it goes.
“The minority cannot be racially prejudiced so why not?”
I never said they could not. Many of them are. But whites have not historically been the ones devalued in our society.
Please refer back to my last paragraph. Aggressively pursuing those relationships is the only thing that will erase the stigma. Pretending there’s not one will not.
Ellen, you are now in moderation. We have a zero tolerance policy here when it comes to racist comments.
I have generally come down on the side of the “racial reconciliation” folks (not that most people here are anti-racial reconciliation, but you know what I mean) in these discussions. But it does seem like it’s being overdone a bit. I didn’t found the SBC, I didn’t own slaves (nor my ancestors, as far as I know). I don’t practice or approve of racism. I call it out when I see it. What more do people want? Sure, if something comes up, let’s react. If we find out one of our churches is practicing racism, let’s act. If something happens… Read more »
Bill, I think I understand what you’re saying, and I agree with some of it. When you say “I fell like we are there”, I personally feel this is a half-truth. Are we “there” in terms of having already publicly confessed as a convention that it was wrong to support slavery and other forms of racism in the past? Yes. Thank God! I don’t think we need to keep doing that. Are we there in terms of any obvious KKK style ugly racism being widely condemned and unacceptable among the SBC churches and members? Yes, at I think so. But… Read more »
As a comment here: What is the demographic makeup of these predominantly “rural” communities you have a problem with? Since I work in one, let me tell you. I and my congregation would welcome and invite for participation with Christian fellowship and partnership of anyone, yellow, brown, black, or white. Yet in many of the communities you are seemingly concerned about, the ratio of majority white to about anyone of a minority persuasion is about 99.9% to .01%. In my neck of the woods (taking data from the Census Bureau as well as our state convention) there is not a… Read more »
Rob Ayers wrote: **** beginning of quote from Rob ****** As a comment here: What is the demographic makeup of these predominantly “rural” communities you have a problem with? Since I work in one, let me tell you. I and my congregation would welcome and invite for participation with Christian fellowship and partnership of anyone, yellow, brown, black, or white. Yet in many of the communities you are seemingly concerned about, the ratio of majority white to about anyone of a minority persuasion is about 99.9% to .01%. In my neck of the woods (taking data from the Census Bureau… Read more »
Rob Ayers, good point, this is not an atypical stereotypical broad based assumption that was made about “rural” churches. As MSNBC/CNN has taught me, this has become a “dog whistle” description that implies rural means backward, clannish, latent racist, non inviting etc. etc. instead of accepting reality and the demographics of the country. I travel quite a bit and when we go out west, Idaho, Mt., Wy., N. Dakota and S. Dakota I do not see many minorities , the vast majority of people including tourist are white. So if a church in many places in Nebraska has any minority… Read more »
Mark, I grieve with you in the fact that you have had to fight the fight of truth and it has cost you and your family. I on the other hand have not fought your fight (though I have fought other fights that hurt my family as result). Godspeed to you. I would be interested in your counties demographic makeup. In my experience, wide open country seems to attract mainly white farmers with a leaven of people of color. Most people of color seem to congregate mainly in small towns and cities. Your designation of “rural” then may include these… Read more »
*** quote from Rob Ayers*** I would be interested in your counties demographic makeup. In my experience, wide open country seems to attract mainly white farmers with a leaven of people of color. Most people of color seem to congregate mainly in small towns and cities. Your designation of “rural” then may include these small town churches. My definition are the countryside “truly rural” church. For example, a Google map satellite look at my church will find a corn field on one side and a soybean field in another. ***end quote (see rest of his comment above*** Thanks for your… Read more »
I might point out Mark that church segregation is a wide spread problem – both urban and rural churches often share that distinction. Racism is a problem with all people – not just the majority ethnicity that is found wherever one lives. If the goal is “zero” sin (as racism here is the example) then that my friend is a worthy goal, something that we should all strive for and fight for, but in the end this side of heaven is a fantasy. I can pine and strive for a time that sexual sin will not be found among God’s… Read more »
Bill Mac: Do you say this because you(a white man) are tired of hearing it? It should never be forgotten and the one who speaks of how bad he/she was before Christ is simply remembering what Christ has done for them. Something that should never be forgotten but yet people do forget. That is when the spiritual problems begin. We have not spoken of race like this for the history of the Convention. It has been denied to the total devastation of the Black community. We were not just mean, we were inhuman and horrible in those days, adding to… Read more »
Please don’t throw my skin color at me as if you are somehow an oppressed minority. White or not, I’m unlikely to forget slavery or racism in this country. But I’m not responsible for it and I can’t undo it. What I’ve determined to do is simply not be racist. I’m far more interested in what people are doing about race relations than what they are saying about it. Spend your time talking if that’s what you like.
“White or not, I’m unlikely to forget slavery or racism in this country. But I’m not responsible for it and I can’t undo it. What I’ve determined to do is simply not be racist.”
^^^ Yes.
I’d add for me that I have also determined to teach those under my shepherding to not be racist.
Bill: Wow! Just Wow!
This bothers me more than “throwing a statement” at you, which is exactly what I was doing. Our whiteness gives us special privileges and that has always bothered me. It is not in the past. Not by a long shot. I see it everyday and I have seen it for over 50 years. I am tired that it is happening not that we still talk about it and fight it.
We are responsible for now are we not?
Here is a article on the 16 most segregated cities. It’s pretty sobering especially since it’s 2017.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/16-most-segregated-cities-in-america/ss-AAozfco?ocid=spartandhp
Debbie,
Be careful, lest this happen to you.
http://babylonbee.com/news/social-justice-warrior-dislocates-shoulder-trying-pat-self-back/
At least I am trying to make a difference in the area of injustices and inhuman treatment Tarheel. I feel the same way about refugees. Anyone who is not given the right to be a human being in our country.
Bill: I find it interesting that you accuse me of not acting and Tarheel accuses me of patting myself on the back. That is so far from the truth. I have been an activist against racism since Kindergarten. And I am now 61. But it needs to be talked about as well as acted on. Resolutions are important because we as a corporate denomination of Christians are standing against the most vile of acts and thought. It is a fact that the world is watching, putting our convention in the news around the world. It is detrimental that we keep… Read more »
I didn’t accuse you of not acting. Although I would be interested in your kindergarten racial activism. I think we may have different definitions of the word. If you are bothered by the privileges being white affords you, then give them up. Relinquish them. Nothing is stopping you. Whatever you have gotten unfairly because you are white, give it back. By all means we should keep talking if there is something that needs to be said that hasn’t been said. If anyone has a hitherto unrevealed strategy for improving race relations in this country, let’s hear it. But if the… Read more »
Maybe we should wait to talk about moving on until every trace of racism is gone from our convention. When a pastor is fired for inviting black children to VBS, when i have to delete some of the comments i have to delete from self-identified SBC members, SS teachers, and deacons, there is still a problem. Maybe we can move on when the past is in the past. Maybe we can move on when we have moved past tokenism in the appointment of trustees, committees, and task forces. Maybe we can move on when minorities are included in every aspect… Read more »
Agreed, BillMac.
Dave Miller,
I don’t think Bill is suggesting moving on – nor do I – if it means pretending racism doesn’t exist or ignoring the issue all together… But what is being suggested is that we probably should find a balance between what overdoing it and ignoring it.
I guess what I’m trying to say is… If something, even a good and biblical thing, becomes too much of a hobbyhorse Godly efforts and messages can soon become counterproductive as it can be tuned out or rebelled against.
Again, I am not suggesting ignoring the realities of the issues.
I am only cautioning that all things need to be done with appropriate conviction, gentleness and moderation.
Balance or overdoing it? I am sorry but my mouth drops at this. Dave is right in that it is still occurring within the SBC. When I see no desire to correct this or to “move on” it is something that I as a Christian cannot understand why you think it’s ok. And I am sorry but I do not believe gentleness is necessarily the answer. This needs to be aggressively stood against and fought with anger that I think should be there at the reading of Dave’s scenario. You certainly have not been passive on subjects that get your… Read more »
I’m not passive on this either.
You must not be reading what I’m saying – if you think I am.
Not walking in lockstep with the solutions you favor (for a problem we all recognize and desire remedy) does not equal a dispassionate/passivity regarding the issue being discussed.
My comment was not in response to Bill.
Racism alleged as part of pastor’s termination
http://www.bpnews.net/47325/racism-alleged-as-part-of-pastors-termination
David R. Brumbelow
There is always going to be at least a trace of racism in the church but I don’t think that means we need to continue to dwell on the racist past of the SBC. The reality is that racism is going to be around until Christ comes back to receive His bride. As the church, we do need to continue to confront it every time it rears its ugly head–just like we should continue to confront the sins of pride, lust and idolatry, etc. Having said that, I do think we should move on from talking or dwelling on our… Read more »
Lee, I find a number of things about your comment to have merit, but a few problems make me unable to agree with what you’ve said here. 1. I think your comment treats racism as something that’s MOSTLY in the past, that there’s very little present reality. I think it’s much more complex than that – with the most obvious and pressing issue we face being the way many of our minority members feel like outsiders and marginalized in convention decision-making and leadership. 2. It’s a false dichotomy to say we should stop working on macro- level items and pursue… Read more »
Brent, I am not denying that racism continues to exist. If I gave that impression, I apologize. In my original post/reply I affirmed that racism continues to be a present reality. I have seen it up close–three of my five children are adopted and two of them are black. I recognize that racism continues to be an ugly reality both in our world and in the church. It is because of its continued existence that I think that we must go beyond talking about the past as we continue to press on in doing the hard work of racial reconciliation.… Read more »
Thanks for the engagement in a productive way. There are several points that are worth addressing but I’ll limit it to this one… it seems like many think that we are accomplishing something great when we vote on a resolution Most people involved in SBC life know the limitations of a resolution, but that doesn’t mean they’re unimportant. When Dwight McKissic took the time to write and promote his original alt-right resolution, he obviously believed it was worth the time and effort. Why not take his perspective into account in your formulation of how much the resolution did or didn’t… Read more »
I agree that it is important to consider other perspectives. I don’t want to be dismissive of Dwight’s experience or the concerns he has that motivated him to author the resolution. I appreciate his passion and perspective. I am just very curious about what was actually accomplished in passing the resolution. I know that it is probably too soon to tell but do you know if Dwight (or anyone else who supported the resolution) has talked or written about the good things they think the resolution accomplished? At least in the immediate aftermath, it seems like it caused more turmoil… Read more »
Brent: “However, your question about what individual churches are doing in this area is something I’ve considered writing about and would be a worthy topic.” This would be an interesting and worthwhile topic. I look forward to it.
John Barry said ” If the SBC is going to continually and ever increasingly focus on the issue of the terrible, hateful and indefensible historic racial superiority origins of the SBC in 1845 then the SBC should completely disavow, denounce , vilify and brand the SBC founders and the SBC in a manner such as America has done the KKK and other racist groups. Change the name and disavow any link to the SBC founders and their founding beliefs, it has been proposed before.” I would add this provision : liquidate all assets and turn money over to individual churches… Read more »
Have any of you seen Lawrence Ware’s editorial in the NY Times entitled “Why I am Leaving the SBC?”
Yep. That last couple of lines are concerning. If someone said, “I love the church, but I love white people more” they’d be roasted. This is not an accurate vision of the way Scripture speaks of race and it’s relationship to the church. The biblical picture of reconciliation is “I love my nationality but I love the church more”. Ware has flipped that and it’s not helpful. I think Ware has some valid concerns. I’m working on a piece about moral licensing that I think addresses and even partially agrees with some of his concerns. I agree with him that… Read more »
About Lawrence Ware and his article, Why I’m Leaving the SBC. He seems to equate anyone who supports Trump as alt-right and racist. For that matter, he is probably one who equates anyone who happens to be conservative with the alt-right and racists. He condemns the SBC for any of them supporting Trump. He condemns the SBC for not agreeing that the homosexual lifestyle is right, biblical, moral. He completely justifies Black Lives Matter and implies those who don’t are racist. In contrast, many have charged, with strong evidence, Black Lives Matter with racism. He throws around “white supremacy” a… Read more »
Lawerence Ware also stated in his article that he was ordained by the Southern Baptist Convention, but we all know the SBC does not ordain people. Only local churches ordain men to the diaconate and pastorate. He claims to be a minister in an SBC church, but I’m quite positive after doing some checking that they are not in friendly cooperation with the SBC. The church he is a part of is Prospect Missionary Baptist Church in OKC. I believe Rick Patrick has done some checking on this too. This article just seems like one gigantic smear campaign to diminish… Read more »
I believe the Prospect Missionary Baptist Church is “affiliated ” with the SBC, which means what exactly? This is become common as our Nashville leaders huddle with non SBC groups and recruit high level staff executives from these groups. Now a Pastor who just summed up his case with his last statement in his article. When the New York Times or any other mainstream media site gives someone from a religious group coverage you know it is not going to be positive. I made a couple comments about enough will never be enough for people like Pastor Ware when it… Read more »
That’s the most uncharitable and misquoting of an article as I have seen in a long time.
I don’t have the time to refute, with quotes, your accusations point by point. But thanks for including the link so people can go and read the article for themselves and draw their own conclusions.
Let me at least say that there is in no way ANY approval of homosexual practice in this article. None.
Reactions like this one are most likely one really good reason why Pastor Ware is leaving the SBC. We are poorer for his departure.
Ryan,
Just read the article.
In what way is the SBC homophobic?
How is the SBC not treating LBGTQ people fairly?
Since Ware did not tell us, you tell us.
Thanks,
Ryan,
here’s what I think:
I think that the SBC stands against gay marriage and against sexual sin outside of true marriage of one man/one women and thus we stand against the desires of the LBGTQ community. We also stand against open sin and refuse to accept unrepentant sinners as members. Thus we ‘discriminate’ against them.
And I think that David’s reading of the article was correct, unless you can show how we are otherwise homophobic and mistreating those LBGTQ people.
I just read the article. I understand his frustration over the resolution debacle, and no one should be surprised that I think SBC support for Donald Trump is a stain on our witness, but I think he sounds like a man looking for a reason to leave, and casting his experiences in the most negative light possible. And honestly, I have no idea what he means when he says we have failed our LGBT community.
From what exactly has he departed? His church is officially a Southern Baptist Church. Are they leaving the SBC? If so, he leaves with them. If not, and he remains a member of the church, he is still a Southern Baptist. In the NYT he claimed to renounce his Southern Baptist Convention Ordination, but the SBC does not ordain anyone. Neither does it defrock anyone. All he could do is renounce the specific church’s ordination. It’s like in “The Office” when Michael Scott shouts, “I declare bankruptcy!” Oscar has to tell him it just doesn’t work like that. That wasn’t… Read more »
Mike, Honest answer to your question. His reference was to the removal of the LGBT people who were at the SBC to engage. Not the SBC as a whole, or at least that’s how I read it. Let’s use the word homophobic correctly. It means a fear of gay people. I think many in the SBC act like they are afraid of gay people. How many sermons have you heard about gay people brainwashing children, being pedophiles, wanting to take over churches, etc. That type of fearmongering takes place more than we want to admit. Maybe I am reading him… Read more »
Ryan, Thanks for your answer. As to your questions. I have been in the SBC about 6 years all at the same church and the only SBC sermons I have heard, besides the ones preached there were on specific topics of interest and homosexuality was not one of them. So FWIW, I have heard zero sermons against gays although I have heard at least one about the wrongness of gay sex which in my opinion is for the betterment of gays. Or was on Romans 1. And as far as I can tell my church is not homophobic. That label… Read more »
This article in no way shape or form said we were homophobic and of all the things written in this article I shouldn’t be shocked that this would be what you all would focus on, but I am. When I read it what he said was that the Convention ho hummed around and ditched Dr. McKissic’s resolution (which they did) and then after a lot of push and outcry adopted a reworded version(which they did), yet immediately with no hesitation rid themselves of activists for the LGBQ. In other words compared to the horrific alt-right, the gay issue took precedence… Read more »
In my eyes the perfect church or Convention would be to have your love and commitment to the validity of scripture, yet the heart of the liberal toward some social issues, such as for refugees and minorities, which I wonder about the word minority, are they really smaller in number, or do we as the white community try and make them feel that way.
“As your fathers did, so do you.” — Acts 7:51
When the early church proclaimed the gospel to the Jews, they called them to remember the sins of their ancestors so that they would not make the similar mistake of rejecting God’s work in their time. I think it’s appropriate for us as Southern Baptists as well.
The examples Dave gives are great examples of where we should not move on. I am not exposed to those type of events, but when they go on, we should speak out. One of the other matters brought up by a commenter has to do with the racial makeup of churches. That is a really multifaceted issue. We should try to do what we can in our churches to make them welcoming to all people, but there are many factors affecting that issue. As an aside, I have wondered about whether it’s wise for churches to be founded on an… Read more »
Louis, you bring up an excellent point about different languages. I was blessed to live and serve in an intensely multilingual environment (Indonesia, the island we lived on had over 100 distinct native languages). I strongly support language based churches so that each person can worship in their heart language, the language they know best. In most cases the children of immigrants to the US will grow up fully fluent in English, and may not even be fully fluent in the language of their parents. The situation is complex for sure, but there is an important role for language based… Read more »
Thanks, Mark. I basically come down, as in most things, on the side of freedom. If a group of people want to form a language based church, there usually is a need, and that is 100% fine and right. If the group wants to keep that going after there is really no longer a language barrier (e.g. a German Lutheran church in Nebraska founded in 1900 – probably they all speak English by now), my first instinct is to affirm that desire because it’s their choice. But I do have the desire to see people of all backgrounds and from… Read more »
Let me clarify. The title of the article asks: Is it time to move on from talking about our racist past? The answer is yes. Acknowledged and repented of corporately. The SBC, as an organization, is not racist. It surely contains racists as does any organization of any size. When they are identified, they need to be called to repentance and/or shown the door. Ditto for churches that are deliberately racist. Otherwise the best thing we can do about racism is live everyday not being racist.
If we are concerned about the convention’s racist past, then should we be concerned that Southern Seminary has a college and a library named after a man who said “And I have been, and am, an ultra pro-slavery man” –James P Boyce ? To the best of my knowledge, none of the founding fathers who held slaves made statements like this. I am against hiding our history but again if our racist past is a problem, then is it OK what’s going on at Southern? There maybe other cases of Southern (or other Southern Baptist) Seminary’s honoring self described “ultra… Read more »
Philippian 3:13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. & 1 John 1:7 “If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all sin.” That says quite a lot for both an individual and for a Community. God will honor anyone who goes in His direction toward His Goals. That… Read more »
Here’s some food for thought from an african american blogger on this very topic.
https://theothoughts.com/2017/07/18/some-questions-im-asking-while-off-to-my-white-evangelical-church/
Tim B: I read this article and disagree with it. Totally.
It is hard for me to see how so much credibility is given to Lawrence Ware’s opinion in The New York Times and is causing such as a basis for a discussion over racism and the SBC. Here are some facts that are not given much prominence in this blog post. 1. Lawrence Ware self identifies as a liberal – he is also a member of the Progressive National Baptist Convention which he himself describes as a “liberal black Baptist organization founded in 1961 by Martin Luther King, Jr. 2. Ware is grieved that Brandan Robertson leader of Faith in… Read more »
David, excellent points. When the New York Times gives you space you know you are dinging conservatives, religion or traditional American values. If a noted black person decided to join the SBC would the NYT run a story on it?
Wouldn’t it be nice if racism were a light switch we could just turn off — remove the switch so it could not be turned back on? Hopefully we all could say yes to this but know that such is not the case. From my perspective, racism is not as prevalent now as it was when i was a kid. To that I am grateful. I no longer hear the words which are clearly racist used among church going people in the 60’s. For me, the last time I a racial slur was stated was in the late 80’s…from an… Read more »
Rick Patrick,
Lawrence Ware reminds me of Jimmy Carter. Carter has “left” the SBC several times. Each time the liberal media gives him big publicity.
This is done, apparently, in an attempt to make the conservatives and the SBC Conservative Resurgence look bad. But to sum it up, the problem is that Carter is liberal and the SBC is conservative.
Yet, last I heard, Carter is still a member of a SBC church, which makes him still a Southern Baptist.
David R. Brumbelow
One of the first things that popped into my mind when thinking about this post, is the conversation between Talkative and Faithful in Pilgrim’s Progress (one of the books I would make sure I had with me on a desert island). Talking is fine, but what are we doing? For the vast majority of us, what we are doing is simply living day by day, not being racist. Some of us have the opportunity to be deliberately inclusive of all races in various situations. I think it’s a good strategy. Talking and doing are not mutually exclusive, but I think… Read more »
I re-read Ware’s NYT article. I could not find the name of his church in it. It appears that his work is in the philosophy department of Oklahoma State. In addition to the other mistakes about ordination etc. in the article, Ware lists 5 unnamed African American pastor friends who are also leaving the SBC, and he quotes their thinking. This is why hearsay is not allowed in court. Maybe he has 5 such friends. Maybe he doesn’t. Who knows? I went to check on whether his church is listed in the SBC website church search, but because I don’t… Read more »
You guys keep commenting as to why we shouldn’t still talk about this(and we should keep talking and voting see Dave Miller’s post as to why) and I will keep shaking my head thinking we still have a long way to go even in 2017.
Brent said, “Most people involved in SBC life know the limitations of a resolution, but that doesn’t mean they’re unimportant.” My guess is that most highly involved people in SBC life know the limitations but that most secular reporters and almost all SBCers at large do not. Merely mishandling a resolution, even when taking the right stance and arriving at the proper ending with near unanimity, turns a positive into a negative. The SBC, seems to me, is a net loser over the alt-right resolution. It will never happen but we would be better off by having the executive committee… Read more »
More about Lawrence Ware “leaving” the Southern Baptist Convention:
http://www.bpnews.net/49279/ny-times-oped-spurs-discussion-of-race-and-the-sbc
Apparently, like Jimmy Carter, he did not really leave the SBC after all. For, he is still a member of a SBC church.
David R. Brumbelow
…and another view: “Why I’m staying in the SBC”
http://www.bpnews.net/49280/why-im-staying-in-the-southern-baptist-convention
This is an outastanding article. It’s all really good – but In my view the most compelling part begins with these words and continues to the end of the article: “Once upon a time, I knew nothing about the Southern Baptist Convention except that it was founded in 1845 by white men who didn’t want much to do with anyone who looked like me. That’s all I knew, and it was enough for me to stay away. In my mind, no good could come from being a part of such an organization. But then, one by one and person by… Read more »
*fellow SBCers near him showed the love of Christ….
David B: If true that should make us rejoice should it not. He could be an asset in changing things concerning race issues from the inside. If he left, we would be poorer for it.