The SBC Plodder is back with his customary incisive analysis of all things SBC.
LifeWay and Baptist Press do a good job this time of the year in researching and writing about clergy salaries. BP’s story about pastor salaries not keeping pace with inflation is a good example.
According to LifeWay’s 2014 Clergy Compensation Survey, pay and pay package increases for full-time senior pastors are going up at a rate less than the rate of inflation. This means that, as a group, senior pastors are slightly losing ground in their income considering the cost of goods of services. Any senior pastor who finds a way to direct his church deacons, personnel or finance committee to the LifeWay study and/or to this Baptist Press article is doing a good thing. Church people should be informed about such things. It may or may not help, but if the pastor doesn’t take some initiative to inform key people in his church those people will likely never have the relevant facts to make good decisions.
But I was drawn to another figure given in the BP piece:
Seminary graduates receive, on average, $1,981 more in total compensation than non-seminary graduates and receive more vacation days.
Less than $2,000 for an MDiv? (I realize that the survey did not distinguish among the various seminary degrees but MDiv is the standard pastoral degree offered by all the seminaries.)
Let’s see, you leave a paying job to attend one of the seminaries where you invest somewhere around $25,000 in tuition during the three years needed to acquire an Masters of Divinity degree. During that period most students continue to work but suffer the loss of significantly more income than they would have received if they continued in their secular job not to mention expenses related to moving and traveling, etc.
At the successful completion of a seminary education the minister has a shiny new masters degree which enables him to land a larger church with higher income prospects for his pastoral career.
You bet. On average, an extra $1,981 year after year-after-year.
Impressive?
Not exactly.
Do the math. It doesn’t pay brethren. He will never recover financially from where he would have been had he not sought to acquire that MDiv. But then, at least theoretically, as a better educated pastor, he is a better pastor which is a worthy goal, finances aside.
But, considering the future of the Christian ministry in America – declining church membership numbers, reduced personal giving rates, and increasing economic marginality of average-sized and smaller SBC churches – maybe it’s time to consider that a three year MDiv and the expenses thereof might be excessive.
Is a two-year MDiv program worth considering? I think so.
It seems to me that a lot more people are opting for the shorter-term degrees (RE masters in my day, probably have a different title now). Two year programs instead of 3 or 4.
That is what I am doing. I did undergraduate work in biblical studies, etc. so I was further along the curve and felt comfortable move straight into a 2 year research program (with a few ministry courses sprinkled in). It is saving some money for my family significantly, especially since I work at the school I attend and they will pay for some classes. I cannot imagine going for a 3 year MDiv and paying out of pocket, especially in the current economic climate that churches are having to weather.
There is no reasonable way full time pastors, especially of the non-mega church type, can afford the cost, which is actually higher in many cases than what you listed, of a Master of Divinity from the larger accredited seminaries. This is not only true because of the great amount of debt incurred but as in my case, I already have a large amount of student loan debt from my previous degree and so I am afraid if the larger seminaries do not offer completely online and much more affordable degrees pastors will continue to choose the seminaries that place making a quality, Biblical education affordable and easy to access before the Southern Baptist seminaries and other entities. I would love to get a Master of Divinity from one of the SBC seminaries but it just isn’t possible so I will be choosing, according to God’s direction, a much more affordable and still solid option. Thanks for bringing light to this issue sir!
Most if not all of the SBC seminaries have M.Div. programs that are online now.
I agree with you that one should not embark on a ministry degree with school debt. I don’t know what “cheap but still solid” options you are talking about, but among the “large” seminaries the SBC ones are generally the cheapest due to the CP discount – a notable exception that I know of is Beeson which gives a very very generous scholarship to every full-time on campus student (last I heard at least) but they accept fewer students.
Beeson grad here. Aid is offered, but my student loan debt from Beeson remains substantial.
Also, the 3-year mdiv is the exception among those in my circles…4,5,6,7 years is not uncommon. I switched to the Master of Arts at SBTS, and finished in 4 years…probably could have done 3 years if I had started with that degree. For the average married student, perhaps with kids, a 3-year mdiv would be a terribly exhausting experience.
During seminary I got married, accepted a ministry position, and had our first child. Three years turned into four, and it was a huge task just to manage that.
On another note, I would bet that increased salary is not the #1 reason men go for a masters degree…rather, it is the fact that they believe they need the degree to even get a full time pastorate.
Or in some places even a bi-vo position. I have seen churches saying a M.Div is required for consideration for a bi-vo position. This may be right or wrong, but it is a reality.
I’m sorry, but a bi vocational church requiring an MDiv is absurd, but then again, I think that any church requiring an MDiv is absurd. If we would be honest, it doesn’t make a person a better or more accurate preacher than those without MDiv’s, given the resources that are available to us on the net, it doesn’t even make one more educated than other preachers who don’t have an MDiv.
I used to think that an M.Div. didn’t matter until I got one. I see how weak my ministry would have been if I would have just gone the direction in my studies that I wanted to go. Yes, you can learn on your own, but what do you learn? You might know the Bible, but you likely do not know what you don’t know and there is a good chance that your knowledge of the Bible is conditioned by a pretty narrow view. My professors at GGBTS were amazing. They sent me in 10 directions instead of 1 and helped me find the synthesis of varying views and historical movements. I learned how to think and how to let Scripture interpret Scripture and see the larger context/bigger picture of the Narrative. I could have taught the Bible without them, but I do not know that I would have known how to read the Bible or really understand what it was saying as a whole. I also would have been far more prone to fall into specific ditches theologically.
Seminary is expensive, but it is really important. You are dealing with soul care and you need a time of intense preparation, in my opinion. It isn’t about the financial payoff. It is about be competent at what you are doing with the lives of people.
I’m sorry, but all you’re buying is a credential. If it was only about the learning why didn’t you audit all the classes?
John
I agree with the heart of what you say. Some of the finest pastors I have known have little to no formal education. John Bisagno has no seminary. If one is to believe the stories he barely made it through OBU, ye he is…well he is John bisagno.
I do however have some misgivings with young pastors learning from the internet. there is a lot of junk out there. The greatest value of the M.Div. for me was the men who guided me.
I have an M.Div. However I do have mixed feelings about this post. I got my degree in 3 years from SWBTS with one child in our family. To say it was hard is an understatement. However in those days 66-69 the cost was a $50 matriculation fee and around $50 for books. the rest was paid for by the CP.
If a man goes to school because his motivation is “I need the degree to get ahead” it is less valuable. I went because I truly needed the education that came with sitting at the feet of the masters in Biblical education. My 4 years of college and 3 years of seminary were the best of my life. However I had no children in college and only 1 in seminary.
I do believe in eduction for the pastor. We need to be as well equipped as we possibility can. I well understand how some men cannot go to school. I am personally glad that SB do not require a degree to pastor. that is between the church and the man. However I have little tolerance for those who belittle education or belittle those who have degrees. My greatest disappointment is not finishing the Ph.D. I have great respect and admiration for those who have an earned terminal degree.
D.L. if I came across as belittling those who have a degree I am truly sorry. My heroes almost to a man have Dr in front of their name. I just resent when a church requires an advanced degree or when preachers act as though a person Is less qualified for not having a degree.
John
Oh no my brother, you did not come across in a negative way. I do agree with your comment. Putting any stipulation on a man that the Bible does not specify is wrong IMO. If we needed a degree to pastor Paul would have included that in his letter. I have heard some disparage eduction however and that is unfortunate.
I sometimes wish we we still had the matriculation fee. It would make it easier for men who desire to minister to attend one of the SBC seminaries. I would rather attend one of the 6, but I am making due at a baptist state school since God has provided in that way. If we can make training more accessible again in the future it would be great for future leadership.
What degree are you pursuing and what is your ministry goal?
I am pursuing a ma in religion(theology). I want to get into the pastorate, but I know going to a Baptist state school instead of one of the seminaries could make that an uphill battle.
Colton
I think you might be pleasantly surprised. I sense that churches are more open to options that a few years ago. An MA on theology is very credible.
D.L Payton,
I should hope so! I know in some corners of the convention an MDiv from one of the “Big 6” works as a union card of sorts. I live in a pioneer state so I’m hoping it wont hurt my chances.
Colton
I have been a DOM in Montana for 21 years. Your M.A. would be most welcome here.
No data to go on here…just mulling this over out loud:
I wonder how much that figure is skewed by music ministry? Music guys are often toward the top end of the church’s pay scale. Seminary degrees are far less prevalent among music pastors.
Here’s another set of questions to ask of these data:
1. What percentage of SBC pastors have a seminary degree?
2. What percentage of SBC pastors without a seminary degree can’t land a job at a church at any salary?
I’ve never known of a church that jiggled around with the pastor’s salary based upon what degrees he held. I’ve known of a lot of churches that expected their pastor to hold a certain degree. Maybe someone without a seminary degree convinces them to take a chance on him. Will they lower the salary because of his missing degree? Again, no church I know does that. So, IF HE GETS THE JOB, then he’s going to make the same salary as his predecessors and his successors. But how hard is it for him to get that job without the degree? That’s the question.
My observation is that seminary degrees have saturated the SBC pastoral job market all the way down to the bottom. Even the smallest churches have a decent shot at landing someone with a seminary degree. So, having a seminary degree no longer differentiates the guy at the large church from his uneducated country bumpkin brethren at a small country church. The guy out at the country church may be a semi-retired pastor with more credentials than the guy in town. The non-seminary-degree-toting pastor doesn’t affect the numbers very much because he may very well be unemployed in ministry and may not be being counted at all.
My surmises here arise entirely out of my efforts to help young men find churches. I’m totally NOT encountering a situation where anyone—seminary degree or not—can easily just stroll into a pulpit and have a job in ministry.
If you look at the job listings at sbc.net/jobs, most of them require an M.Div as a basis for even receiving the resume.
William’s data seems counterintuitive to me, but he’s usually pretty good with those numbers.
I’m thinking of asking him to be our official treasurer here.
Not questioning William’s numbers in the least little bit. If the scenario I proposed is true, William’s numbers would still be exactly right. The question is how we ought to interpret those numbers. Do they mean that you can skip seminary and easily land a pastoral position making almost the same amount as your gullible friend who completes an MDiv?
Maybe, but I doubt it.
Maybe instead it means that, while your odds stink of getting a pastoral position without an MDiv, those few who DO manage to do so make almost just as much as their peers with MDivs.
There are things left to be desired in the LifeWay data. The BP story pointedly said that additional degrees yielded more pay but that the seminary degree meant less than $2k annually, a very modest prospect of higher pay for an MDiv compared to the investment necessary to obtain the degree.
I wonder when (or if) younger clergy will factor this into their educational goals. An MDiv as the gold standard for ministers doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense for many of the smaller churches I’ve supplied in lately.
Of course, it is always held out to the neophyte ministerial candidates that they might be the next Spurgeon, so they better get the credentials.
Dr. Bart
I tend to think you are spot on…but as you say I have no data.
There must still be openings for pastors. Every week in the Baptist Messenger here in Oklahoma there must be 40 to 60 help-wanted ads for Pastors, Youth Directors, or Music Directors.
I suppose the situation is the same in other states. Maybe it is the case that none of these jobs are “entry level” jobs for men just starting out in the ministry — whether or not they have an MDiv.
I am a layman. I audited some MDiv courses at Western Seminary’s extension campus in Silicon Valley. Western Seminary is associated with the Conservative Baptist Convention. All my profs were Dallas seminary grads.
I was working full time as a software engineer at that time. I learned quite a lot even though I was not doing the papers or taking the tests. I did get all of the books and read all the reading assignments. I did most of the homework except for the large research papers.
Looking back, I learned tons of stuff about the Bible and how to approach study of the scriptures. I did NOT take any theology courses, but I took just about all the Biblical Literature courses. Also, I took just enough Hebrew to be dangerous. In Hebrew, I actually did all the homework for the first six to eight weeks. However, I got a pink slip from IBM right in the middle of the semester when I was taking Hebrew and I had to drop out and hit the pavement. IBM decided to cancel the project I was working on. A few years later, IBM sold the entire Data Storage Business to Hitachi. The former IBM site is now has been mostly torn down and replaced with condos, a strip mall, and a big box store [Lowes or Home Depot I think]
I became an independent consultant doing embedded microcode and worked on a number of cool assignments for another ten years after leaving Big Blue.
One of my profs taught a course specifically about Daniel and Revelation which really nailed down a lot of stuff for me. About the time I took this there was a guy in Oakland, Hugh Ross who runs Family Radio [KEAR] who wrote a book saying that the world was going to end on a date certain about six months in the future.
If you want to be a better Sunday School teacher, etc. then maybe auditing MDiv classes is the way to go. And the cost, as I recall, is about 1/4 the cost of taking the course for credit.
If you already have a four year degree, I’d say you should consider auditing at a seminary provided you don’t intend to ever have a paying job at a church. I don’t know if any of the SBC seminaries allow people to audit MDiv classes or not.
I think the “problem” with the SBC schools is that they ONLY focus on vocational training. It is my understanding that they won’t even let you in unless you have a calling to the ministry.
Roger Simpson Oklahoma City OK
There are openings, for sure. There just aren’t many of them open to a guy without an MDiv in place.
Roger, I love hearing your story! The MDiv ROI seems to me to be a mute point for a man aspiring to Pastor, if a man cannot demonstrate his qualifications as a man of God. I would almost bet a nickel that you will find a few MDiv programs that are done in excellence, and others that are probably not worth the paper on which the certificate is generated.
The more I listen to these types of conversations, the more I realize that our congregation is just not that interested in the certificate, but are more interested in the qualifications. I guess all that I am trying to say is that an MDiv can be, in some small part, helpful toward trying to determine if a man is able to divide the Word accurately, along with the other 90% of the qualifications. Some guys are really good at getting the MDiv, but not so good at dividing the Word accurately.
If it is purely a money decision to obtain an MDiv, I would recommend only finding one that is conducted in excellence, and not be so concerned about the cost. The cost of an MDiv, IMHO, is irrelevant.
I made a HUGE mistake in my previous post. The guy at KEAR in Oakland in the 1990s time frame was Harold Camping — NOT Hugh Ross.
Camping predicted the end of the world several times. Unless I am in a large space warp where time is shifted back from real time then I believe that the world has not yet ended. Therefore, Camping was wrong on each of his doomsday predictions.
I owe a huge apology to Hugh Ross who is one of the key Christian Apologists of our time.
Roger OKC
1. For the man who wants some good ministry training, who’s is willing to accept that there may be churches who will not consider him because of it, the Master of Arts is a good option. If there are any specific classes that the person feels are missing, they can simply take those extra classes that aren’t required for their degree…instead of taking 40 more hours for the mdiv.
A M.A. at an SBC seminary, with SBC profs in class, will be very beneficial for ministry training. You just have to look at the classes offered and select the right degree based on that…not on the name of the degree.
2. Bart, I am the music guy at my church, and I make significantly less than the 2 other full-time pastors…I feel well cared for, however, and have no complaints…(of course, the Obamacare health insurance subsidy helps a lot????. )
You’re analyzing this from the minister’s perspective and I would not argue your conclusions.
But what about the church’s perspective. My data less opinion is that for the average and smaller SBC church (or up to 80 percent or so of all SBC churches) seminary degrees are generic and that the more arduous and expensive MDiv is not viewed as having greater value to the church (in fact, they may prefer a guy who has had no Greek and Hebrew so that they will not have to endure his incessant, “…the Greek says here…” references. But I digress…).
My primary point is In agreement with yours: The M.A., in many smaller churches, is likely seen as little different from the mdiv…and is much less consuming of resources.
further, when the difference is explained to my church members, they all (so far) agree with me that I made the right choice to take the smaller degree, especially since doing so allowed me to finish before our first child was born. (of course, I’m just the music/youth guy).
Earning a seminary degree, like going into ministry in the first place, yields a Return On Investment that will not pay sufficient dividends in this life. Our reward for sacrificial service—and the sacrificial preparation that precedes it—will only truly be received in heaven.
The one measly exception, of course, is the worldly favor of the Housing Allowance income exclusion, our small foretaste of the day when our streets are paved with gold and our doors are made of pearl.
Obviously an elitist comment…just look…Rick has the best tonsorial, best sartorial, and best dentition in the SBC. Easy for him to say.
Rick:
God must have super large oysters in heaven. Otherwise, how could those pearly gates be there?
Altogether now: “My God is so big, so strong and so mighty, there’s nothing my God cannot do.” 🙂
…For you – for you!
Gentlemen, the MDIV is currently the standard degree for preparing for the pastoral ministry. The M.A. will soon be the standard for the pastoral ministry. Those wishing to pursue a PHD or DMIN will have to take around 36 hours of leveling courses or pursue the MDIV from the start. I suspect pretty soon you will see those 36 hours of leveling courses offered in some sort of degree so those who have a M.A. and want to do doctoral work will be able to obtain a second masters as they prepare for doctoral work.
One concern about the M.A., as it becomes the standard degree the seminaries will take a blow financially. Students will be taking 36 hours as opposed to 90 hours. This financial blow can only be avoided if almost 3 times as many students pursue the M.A. than would have pursued the MDIV if the M.A. were not offered. Further complicating the financial situation for our seminaries is most M.A.’s are now taken online. The convention’s FTE funding offers no funding to the seminaries for the online students.
Bart,
Do most of the SBC seminaries have an effective online strategy, or at least heading that direction? One that could replace actually having to be at the local seminary site?
I’m not that familiar with how the SBC considers the online approach. Dean’s comment prompted my question.
Chris, I am not Bart, though I wish I were, but let me offer perspective from a trustee of one of our seminaries. We just finished our Fall trustee meeting for NOBTS in which we saw how many online students there are currently studying at each of our seminaries. Those numbers are honestly through the roof. I’m sorry I don’t have those at my disposal right now but the numbers are growing rapidly. It is apparent that each of seminaries has a strategy for online studies. That is the way education will be done for the foreseeable future.
Our seminaries are embracing online education because they have to. It’s just that simple. However, our convention funding has not caught up with online education. I will give you an extremely over simplified explanation of how the Cooperative Program funds our seminaries.This still will be a mouth full.
An FTE is equal to 24 credit hours. The SBC gives CP money to each of our seminaries for each FTE. 100% of on campus FTE’s are funded with CP dollars. Here is the practice I feel the SBC has to change. The SBC only funds off campus FTE’s until that number reaches 14% of the on campus FTE’s. Therefore your seminaries that are excelling in off campus students are being punished. Allow me to make up some numbers for illustration sake. If NOBTS has a total of 1000 on campus FTE’s they may have 1000 off campus FTE’s but will only receive CP funding for only 140 off campus FTE’s using our formula. They would receive nothing for the other 860 off campus FTE’s. I am not privilege to any information but I assume that SBTS and SWBTS will be opposed to this formula change until their numbers of off campus FTE’s reach a total to offset the money that will be lost if the formula were to change. You can see that while our seminaries are aggressively pursuing online education our convention funding is not.
Dean, Thank you for the information! I thought that might the issue. In my other job, CTO of Technical Innovation in Atlanta GA, one of our divisions build online educational technology and integration services for Universities and large Enterprises. Universities have some similar funding challenges, but know that they are going to be way behind the curve unless they move into a more mobile platform.
I too, would like to see the SBC put together an online strategy that would effective support and scale the FTE allocation. There is a huge upside to making the transition with respect to scale. Arizona State University is a leading institution in online services and have effectively adjusted how they provid content relative to the differences in online consumption practices. The SBC could benefit from understanding that model.
Thanks again for the info!!
I’m an online MDiv student at SEBTS. I live in Mississippi so going on campus to SBTS or SEBTS was not an option. SEBTS has mad the MDiv available totally online and I believe their strategy is good and will continue to improve. I definitely wish I had more opportunities for fellowship with the academic community, but I am grateful for the opportunity the online program is providing.
All very good points.
Why would seminaries voluntarily cut tuition revenue and attendant faculty and administrative positions? Only if pressure is overwhelming.
Problem for our Six might be that some state convention-supported schools are about to figure in the equation by offering competitive degrees; however, the future SBC elite – pastors of the largest churches, denominational leadership, etc. will need the foundational MDiv. Problem is that we all think we have a future among the elite…but we cannot all serve above average size churches.
My perspective is limited. Those closer in touch with SBC seminaries doubtless know more and seminary administrators surely have thought all these thoughts long ago.
I just checked the sbts website…a few interesting facts:
1. The MA in theological studies is 48 hours, so only half an mdiv, not a third.
2. It is listed “for laypersons only.” …and “for those who are not preparing for professional pastoral ministry.”
I Don’t know how detailed their guidance counselors are in restricting those who may want to pursue pastoral ministry, but only get the MA, but they definitely want to dissuade people from taking that route.
Andy, I appreciate your research. May I suggest you research SWBTS’s website. They offer a 36 hour M.A. in theological studies. If the M.A. begins to become the acceptable degree for pastors (and this appears to be the case) and one seminary offers a 36 hour M.A. and another offers a 49 hour M.A. where do you think most pastors are going to study? For this cause our other seminaries will offer a 36 hour M.A. online. Rest assured no seminary or theological educator wants a 36, 45 or 49 hour M.A. in theology to be offered. They simply have no choice but to offer the M.A. at this time.
I believe sbts, has several MAs of differing sizes…i just looked at the main main theology…
My own MA in worship was in the mid forties, I believe…though I ended up with about 55 due to some extra classes I had already taken.
Andy,
I’m not a student at Southern, but I had heard from a reputable source (a former professor) that SBTS required incoming non-MDiv students to sign a form stating that they did NOT intend to pastor – this was basically their way of trying to push all men wanting to pastor toward the MDiv. Not sure if that’s still the case and was wondering if you could comment on that.
Bob, I have heard that as well. But that was 7 years ago, and didn’t know if anything had changed. I do think that applies only to those seeking Sr. Pastorates… I know of several who switched to the smaller degrees, but many of those were pursuing things like youth ministry, music, counseling, etc. They always advise toward the big degrees, but don’t require it unless you say, “I want to be a pastor.”
I don’t know how long they can keep that up…If I were in that situation just starting out, I would likely say, “ok, I’ll go get my degree somewhere else.”
That does tone it down, but I’m with you, I’d just go somewhere else. I just find it really out of step with our Baptist heritage that has recognized the sufficiency of the Scriptures and the Spirit to sustain a man’s ministry. Of course I did opt for the MDiv at SEBTS, but that’s because I do see the value in all the courses and the Lord has blessed me with the financial means to pursue it. At the same time, if the Lord opens a door for me to pastor before I’m finished I will not hesitate to pursue it simply for lack of training – perhaps for other reasons, but not for that.
Correct. I had to sign this statement when I started the MATS at SBTS.
Lynn
Bob, I was about to share the same thing about Southern. A friend who attended there explained their position on MA’s to me as you have stated.
I wonder if Southern’s position is an MA does not fully prepare someone for the pastorate. Odd.
There is probably some “good” reason that this was put in place, but wow…it just appears to be horrific on the surface. I would have probably laughed out loud at that stipulation! But, I probably need to know more about the reasoning.
I’d like to shake things up a bit.
What’s the perspective on the non-accredited MDiv programs at places like Reformed Baptist Seminary and Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary. If you go with one of these places you can get a 90-hour MDiv totally online for less than $10k.
Obviously, both of these are reformed leaning but let’s stay on topic. These groups are offering significantly reduced expenses without even having the CP discount. Should we be looking to make our SBC seminaries quit worrying with accreditation and move more in this direction?
Here are links to the two that I’ve mentioned here. I strongly considered both of these before opting for SEBTS.
http://rbseminary.org/
http://www.cbtseminary.org/
I’ve looked into both of these institutions and they both are a good model. If we are willing to ween off of the accreditation model or are forced out of accreditation (like Trinity Western in Cananda or Gordon College are facing) this could be a good option. I do think that the prestige that comes with an accredited MDiv vs an unaccredited degree could deter many until it is a complete necessity. That said, I like their emphasis on serving in the local church and pastoral mentorship alongside the school work. This type of apprenticeship model is a strong one to go with.
I graduated from Oklahoma Baptist University and Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary (M Div and D Min). I know I was not ready to pastor until after my M Div, though some are. My pastor in Seminary, Tommy Hinson, said “Don’t call me Dr., I’m not even a nurse.”
Steve in Montana
Steve
Hey brother, did you enjoy the convention?
D. L.
Yes! Thought it was a good convention, business was easy, and I came away challenged to refocus on evangelism.
Steve in Montana
Steve
Are you ready to be the President next year? You will have by then two years experience in the VP position.
I am a seminary student and have found the MDIV to me valuable than any financial investment. If the only reason that people are going to seminary is an attempt to make more money afterwards then they are simply going for the wrong reason. Instead as already said above, an MDIV and ministry itself is an investment that will return eternal dividends. I do not think the answer is to skimp on the education of our ministers. This will do nothing to help out churches and ministers.
Joseph,
I agree and I don’t think that most guys going to seminary are going for those types of wrong reasons, and if they are, they are obviously not too bright and will probably not survive seminary anyway!
Therefore, I think the bigger question centers around whether we need to spend big money on having high-class accredited institutions when having degrees from these places does not ensure that pastors will be compensated for their investment. So with other much cheaper, and some even free, resources available, is pouring over $25,000 into seminary the wisest stewardship? Obviously, since we all believe the man of God should seek to be equipped, if the $25K MDiv was the only option we would probably all say that’s what he should do. But since there are more and more economical options, and considering inflation, it’s not so clear.
By the way, I wanted to add to the list of economical resources a few more.
Reformed Baptist Seminary
http://rbseminary.org/
Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary
http://www.cbtseminary.org/
BiblicalTraining
http://www.biblicaltraining.org/
RTS on iTunesU
http://itunes.rts.edu/
Wayne Grudem lectures
http://www.waynegrudem.com/audio/
Monergism (tons of various resources, both print and audio)
http://www.monergism.com/
And those are all more technical and academic, the more practical ones might include:
http://www.9marks.org/
http://www.desiringgod.org/
http://www.gty.org/
http://www.radical.net/
When you stop and think about it, we’ve really reached information overload. I think we need to start thinking about how to best move forward without straining ourselves so much financially simply trying to give our pastors a title that is always going to be inferior to the title of “Pastor”.
As I have stated when I was at SWBTS the “tuition” was a $50 matriculation fee. The CP supported the school. In our promotions we say that the CP provides seminary eduction for our young men. The question becomes, do you think that the average SB knows that tuition is so high in our seminaries supported by the CP? Just wondering!
I don’t want to hijack this post but i have a question. I was raised in the era of ministry when salary was not negotiated. The church had a certain salary in their budget and that was the offer, no negotiations. What is the policy now in the strong Baptist regions.