When I posted my topic on Lifeway, most of the comments I received was about how the material wasn’t deep enough for Sunday School. Let me say first that I believe in Sunday School, I love Sunday School and I think it’s important, but it’s not the whole shebang. Sunday School is PART of the Discipleship Process. In most churches, people begin with a Worship Service. From there, they should move to Sunday School, and from there to a Discipleship Group. Worship Services explore theological issues, they are broad, they are designed for a giant mixed audience of believers, non-believers.
From there, we encourage people to go to Sunday School where they can interact and learn. The environment should be open to fellowship, prayer, ministry and Bible Study. Not deep, plumb the depth Bible Study, but practical Bible Study of how to live out God’s word. Mature believers should be helping the younger Christians, the new believers and encouraging in the discussion. Can you ever have too much dialogue based on Biblical text? Why do we have to plumb the depths? Maybe we as mature believers should be working with and along side new believers, instead of so focused on “what’s in this for me”.
Now, once a person is in Sunday School, they are reading the Bible, they are understanding things, they want more. Now it’s time to get them into a Discipleship group. This is where more mature believers can get deep into things, can really get into the depths of scripture. They learn and they mature so then can go back to Sunday School and lead others to get deep.
Our problems with Sunday School lessons have become that we have stopped caring about the immature, we just want what we want. We have stopped trying to be open and inviting, we want a closed group Bible Study. We have stopped taking time to do Discipleship groups, we want it all on Sunday Morning. We have stopped thinking strategically, we are very linear and unilateral, we just want the people to act and think like us.
As a result, our Sunday Schools are dying. They are not serving the purpose for which they exist, they are becoming sudo Discipleship groups. The problem is a hour is not sufficient time for a good Discipleship group, you more time. We have tried make Sunday School something it’s not, and we are failing. My advice, get a plan that is more strategic, use Sunday School in conjunction with Worship and Discipleship groups and things will go so much easier. That is my opinion.
Is it possible that we’re setting up a bit of a false dichotomy here? I teach a Sunday School class with a mix of mature Christians, new believers, and seekers. I have used Lifeway, though I’m currently not. We’re actually doing a 53 week series on John’s Gospel. So we’re going verse by verse. Even when we’ve used Lifeway, we’ve gone a good bit deeper than the material we’re given.
And during this time, our class has continued to grow. We’ve assimilated new believers, helped mature believers, and evangelized non-believers. The class has grown from 5 to 40 over a 3 year period, then we split it, and it’s growing again, up to about 25 or 30 now. And again, it’s a good mix of people on all levels of the faith continuum.
Isn’t it possible for Sunday School to both reach lost people, and grow Christians? Isn’t it possible to teach in such a way that both “get it?” Sometimes, I think we fear that young Christians can handle hard study. That has not been my experience. The ones I know seem to be hungry for it. Doesn’t the Word have that kind of power?
I agree Wade. And how many times does one have to hear the milk. You would be surprised how many new believers want meat as well. Good comment Wade.
Dan,
The problem is that you are assuming that the makeup of all SS classes are the same. Based on your assumptions, I don’t really disagree with your approach. What I disagree with is your assumptions. And I don’t necessarily think people in the last post were complaining about the material being deep enough, but rather taking the easy way out with biblical passages, and simply skipping whatever the author didn’t feel like explaining. Reading verses 1-12 isn’t necessarily much deeper than reading verses 1-6 and 8-12. It is just doing justice to the passage.
Bill, there is a general assessment that Sunday School classes have the same basic structure. In an ideal situation, Sunday School is only part of the Discipleship process, so the idea of it having to do everything isn’t necessary. I would say to Wade, that is the same thing. Perhaps in my report I emphasized too much side of the “open group”.
My major point is that Sunday School should be open enough for anyone to join at any time. That doesn’t mean Discipleship doesn’t happen. Wade, I would say that you have success, but I would wager that some newer believers have been intimidated by your class. I am not saying you need to change anything, but we make a lot of assumptions. We assume people know what a Gentile is. I had a new Christian come out of Sunday School confused because she had no idea what a gentile is.
I would also say that I’ve seen more of a concern for “us” when it comes to Sunday School. What I mean is we want to make sure that WE are getting what we need, that WE are going deeper and that WE are maturing. I think many of the mature believers need to be serving in Sunday School more than being a “consumer”.
Yes Wade, Sunday School should do all things, but if you have to focus on one, which one will you focus on? Making sure Christians are ‘fed’ or that everyone can find a place to belong? Since our churches are declining and not growing, and Sunday School is on the decline, it would make sense to me that many are more concerned about “us”.
I applaud you for doing Sunday School and for reaching others and for growing. I would say if your class is 25 to 30, you are late at birthing a new class. If your class grows to that size, there are often people who are spectators, who are missed and not contributing to ministry, fellowship or prayer. It becomes harder and harder to connect in a group that grows to that big. Can is really be called a “small group” if it continues to grow without starting new groups? I think you are doing a good job Wade, but I wouldn’t advice people to use your model. I personally don’t believe it’s the best way to do Sunday School.
Dan: I don’t believe in dumbing down a class for new believers. They grasp much more than you think….I also believe in questions so we tell them what a Gentile is. I disagree with your assessment of Sunday School and believe it’s more a possible Southern Baptist thing than a Bible way of doing Sunday School.
Don’t you have specialized instruction classes for Christian formation for people who are new to your faith ?
Not in most churches, no.
Should we is a separate discussion, but the reality is no.
Christiane: We do have a class for new members on what we as a church believe. It is a SS class that runs for a month or two.
Dan, I’ll second what Debbie said.
#1 – Just because someone is a new believer doesn’t mean they don’t know anything. They may not know the Bible, but they do know a lot of history, culture, geography, or whatever. Good instructors assess learners for what they already know and relate new material to what learners are already familiar with.
#2 – You talked about someone coming out not knowing what a gentile was and being confused. Sounds like they were sitting in a lecture, not a discussion. Good instructors assess learners to see if they are following along with the material.
#3 – You paint a false dichotomy between content and style when you say, “From there, we encourage people to go to Sunday School where they can interact and learn. The environment should be open to fellowship, prayer, ministry and Bible Study. Not deep, plumb the depth Bible Study, but practical Bible Study of how to live out God’s word. ” You make is sound like interaction and learning are exclusive of in-depth Bible study. Not only that, but you act like in-depth Bible study is different from “practical Bible Study of how to live out God’s word.” Sorry, but how in the world is shallow, superficial, Bible study practical? We might as well just promote some form of moralistic deism if we’re not going to get into the meat of God’s word. Platitudes and proverbs instead of wrestling with the real tough parts of scripture and how they apply to the hard choices we face in real life.
In summary, I believe the approach to SS that you paint is why we have so little real discipleship. I teach College and Career and we go deep because these young adults have hard questions. I can see no other way to do SS. Now, here’s the kicker – the hardest questions come more from the newbies than from the ones who were raised in church. Dumbing down SS for the newbs is the exact opposite approach to take.
I have asked some ‘tough’ questions as a person from outside, and my questions were treated as though I had done something wrong to ask. Maybe the person responding felt that ‘I should know’ or that the question was ‘ingenious’ ?
Not sure. But the message to me was that I should not have asked those questions. They were not welcomed.
I think you are ALL taking my example to extremes. I am not saying “dumb it down”. I’m saying that often we teach things with very little practicality.
Here is what frusterates me. We as a denomiation are in decline. We are not moving people from learners to leaders, and what I am reading is (and I may be reading it wrong) “We need to teach people everything in our hour on Sunday Morning so that they can sit and listen to everything I am teaching”. NO ONE is taking into account additional discipleship time, NO ONE is interacting with the reality that we should BUILD a Discipleship tract or ministry, NO ONE is talking about moving people into leadership, NO ONE is talking about mentoring, EVERYONE is talking about how we are to do whatever we want during ONE HOUR on Sunday Morning, and so you have ALL seemed to miss my point.
My point isn’t “new Christians are dumb, so let’s do elementary Christianity”. I totally believe to do DEEP discipleship, you end up having a closed group. To really go into a passage deep, you have to build from week to week. I am looking at Bible Studies, like “The Mind of Christ” of “Experiencing God” that build on each other.
To be honest, what you all are calling “deep” I probably wouldn’t even consider deep. Most of you, if you are doing open group Bible Study are not doing what I would consider “deep” discipleship anyway. Most of you are shooting at me from the hip, and haven’t really interacted with what I said. Most of you have been convinced that I am talking about not teaching the Bible. I don’t currently teach, but when I taught the youth, I promise not one person would say that I “dumbed it down” and we tackled challenging things. We have talked about open-theism, predestination, talked in depth about salvation and sanctification, but that is not my entire focus. My focus is teaching, leading, prayer, ministry and fellowship.
Here is my question. What is your focus in Sunday School? Does it have 3 or 4 fold function, or do you just want to “impart knowledge”. If it’s the latter, maybe it’s the reason we as SBCs are in decline. Sure, we want to blame Lifeway, NAMB, Young Calvinists, but have we stopped and thought about how we are moving people from learner to leader? Are we afraid to give away leadership? Do you have mentors and mentees in your “deep Bible study”? Are you developing ministry? Are you reproducing leaders? Maybe it’s time to stop blaming everyone and look at what we are doing every Sunday Morning. That is 99% of my point, not how “deep” are we teaching, but how are we reproducing.
Dan, here’s what I taught my College and Career class this past Sunday – I contrasted Eastern educational methods with Western ones. I was teaching from the sermon on the mount, Matthew 7 and was introducing the final dichotomies in the chapter. I used v.24a as the launching point to contrast the western emphasis where education = information and the Eastern emphasis where education is the adoption of an entire lifestyle. Jesus is not content with hearers, but doers of his teaching.
You perpetuate the Western approach by contrasting “deep” teaching with “practical” teaching. This is a false dichotomy. I closed my lesson with an approach to the teachings of Jesus where we need to imitate him which involves a deep study of his teachings, a practice of spiritual disciplines, and some serious changes in our outlook. It’s all part of the same package, not either/or.
The dichotomy developed perhaps over the Reformation concerns about ‘works’ and over some of the abuses in the Church to do with the sale of indulgences . . .
it is a false dichotomy, yes, but the reasons for its development were understandable at the time and it assumed the proportions of an ‘over-reaction’ to abuses that evolved into a theological doctrine all its own.
If I may respond to this…
Rick- you have mis-stated the differences between Eastern and Western educational models… The final goal of both is identical: LEARNING. In both models, change=learning.
Education is both is the same also: imparting information. The main difference is in method. Western education involves a variation on the Socratic method. Eastern (traditional) education is the teacher/disciple or master/apprentice method where there are times that resemble Socratic teaching and other times that are more demonstrative.
However, in both methods, if there is no change in the life or understanding of the one to whom information is given, then there has been no learning.
Dan is not perpetuating a false dichotomy between “deep” and “practical” teaching. He is advocating strongly that they are both necessary, and as with a more traditional Eastern philosophical approach, he is advocating that there are proper times for both.
And if I may add Rick, you can’t teach a “class” with Eastern methods, since that is a western/greek idea. The idea that you taught a class using Eastern methods itself is a contradiction.
Greg pretty much says it all.
That sounds like a stand alone lesson, when I say a “deep” lesson, it’s a study of one aspect that takes several weeks to cover that builds from one class to another class that invariable creates a closed group environment. When you all says “deep” it sounds more like covering a subject entirely. I would be scared to see what most of you mean when you say “shallow”.
Greg and Dan,
Your responses to Rick’s comment is excellent.
Greg, I know Dan is a C.E. guy. I have been reading your comments related to these specific posts. I am assuming you are also a C.E. guy or you have really taken some time to study the teaching of the biblical revelation independently.
That should be: Your responses to Rick’s comment “are” excellent. Sorry, I spent the weekend in T’town watching the SABANATION-UGS game and, as always, reverted back to my redneck ways of communication. 🙂
CB – Yes, I have the same degree from the same Seminary… I started for an MDiv, but the rest is all Dan’s fault 🙂
I’m not sure where I stand on Bama, but I’m grateful that Baylor beat OK at home !!!! Sic ’em Bears!
I never said anything about dumbing it down. I am talking about doing the practical stuff with non-believers and new Christians. Too many classes want to talk about the Jewish festivals and the study of Revelation. I am saying Sunday School needs to deal with practical stuff, like what Jesus taught the disciples. Was Jesus teaching the Disciples how to pray “dumbing it down”?
Hi DAN,
hope this isn’t seen as ‘dumbing down’ but here is a little poem that a Sunday School class might like to have to begin the preparation season of Advent . . .
“Come and save us, O Lord our God.
O come, O come, and be our God-with-us
O long-sought With-ness for a world without,
O secret seed, O hidden spring of light.
Come to us Wisdom, come unspoken Name,
Come Root, and Key, and King, and holy Flame.
O quickened little wick so tightly curled,
Be folded with us into time and place,
Unfold for us the mystery of grace
And make a womb of all this wounded world.
O heart of heaven beating in the earth,
O tiny hope within our hopelessness
Come to be born, to bear us to our birth,
To touch a dying world with new-made hands
And make these rags of time our swaddling bands.”
The reflective Advent poem above is from the work of Malcolm Guite.
Did you even read my post Debbie? I never said anything about “dumbing it down” I talked about discussion and practical application. I have seen too many classes that are based on the “teacher knowledge” with little to know interaction and no ministry, no prayer and no life change in the student. Seems like this type of class is more ego-driven than it is ministry or discipleship driven.
Dan,
Since there is not explicit model for Sunday School in Scripture it is a tradition that has no one way of being accomplished. As I mentioned in a comment on your other post, it seems Sunday School should be an outworking of Sunday worship. That is, Sunday School is a subset of corporate worship including the reasons for having it. It would seem then that we gather on the Lord’s Day for the purpose of worship which includes discipleship which means it is a gathering for the church.
I agree with Mark.
I think Dan makes some good points. I have never thought about what you said before.
One skill of the teacher to the disciple(s) is to be a temporary spiritual parent. I think the same principle of Proverbs 22:6 “Train up a child in the way HE should go,” would be the way to deal with each individual member of the group. The teaching would be a broadcast to all and, then, know each member so you can point out specific truths after class or outside the class. We also must focus on the other gifts within the group, too. Having mature Christians in the group could serve as assistants to the teacher when necessary. It is also important to know and meet with them on occasions within your home to discuss ways and methods so everyone is on the same page when assisting others. Every class needs a couple like Aquila and Priscilla to step up when they discern that something is amiss. The second half of that Proverb says, “And when he is old he will not depart from it.” We must be attuned to our pastor’s goals so we are building on his foundation (if you know what I mean) and not building a different foundation. Our primary goal is unity. This activity should flow like a relationship and not like a SpongeBob party with every event scheduled down to the minute. Make it all natural and keep the schedule in your head. We are on Christ’s time table.
Brother Dan,
Great articles. I would challenge your philosophy of Sunday School vs. the philosophy of Lifeway when writing their Sunday School material. It has nothing to do with what is right or wrong and has everything to do with the mindset of the presenters.
Sunday School was started to be the evangelistic arm of the church. The philosophy was strengthened when Dr. Welch partnered with Dr. Gene Mims to bring in production FAITH. All churches that were getting their materials from Lifeway were adopting this philosophy and beginning to move in that direction.
Your comments above reveal another philosophy all together.
It seems that Sunday School was started, not to disciple believers, but to assimilate the lost into a group of believers in order to assimilate them into worship. Thus, we seem to have changed the assimilation process and I believe this is the rub that many feel.
If we are arranging our “Worship Services” to connect with the lost and our Sunday School classes to disciple believers, then we need a curriculum whose philosophy is the same.
Blessings,
Tim
Tim,
What you said in your next-to-the-last paragraph is what I have been told for many years. Now I am much older and really don’t understand the intent or biblical reasoning of assimilation and how it would fit in the church the way it was set up then and now. To assimilate is defined, “to bring into conformity with the customs, attitudes, etc., of a group, nation, or the like; adapt or adjust”. First, I do not recall or know of a program or see any books being used to assimilate a new believer. Second, there is not as much drive from leadership to assimilate than there is to witness. It isn’t mentioned from the SBC or defined.
I think our intention of assimilating a person into the church had good intentions. One problem with that is that a new believer is being assimilated with a variety of others in various stages of maturity which would bring the average down considerably. Assimilating every new believer with Jesus Christ for the first 6+ months of their new life would be the only way to kick-start the new believer’s life and add maturity to the existing believer. Both of us would be in the discipleship.
If we have been assimilating new believers into all the other believers, this may be a cause for our decline.
I mean this in a nice way. 🙂
I agree Tim, but I see how is usually functions, and while Sunday School would be the best first “entry point”, it just isn’t in most churches.
What’s frustrating is that the LifeWay material is a mile-wide, inch-deep amalgamation of sometimes five or more topics which get touched on in the course of a SS discussion. LifeWay also allows for zero rehashing of a topic (i.e. coming back the next week for more discussion) because its so linear in its own structure.
You have to pare down to a single topic or theme for the week and you have to dive into the topic because SS is becoming far more socratic in its methodology rather than being a mini sermon from the SS class leader.
And new believers are far more receptive to deeper discussions…
….quite possibly more so than old believers because new believers want to be right rather than old believers thinking that they’re right.
The cost of your suggestion is that if a person joins during week 2 of your rehashing , you have intentionally left them at a disadvantage.
During this entire dialogue, I have advocated for Discipleship Training apart from Sunday School for that type of thing. Why will no one even address that suggestion or issue? Please explain why Sunday School must be the primary (or in most cases) only discipleship in your church?
Because due to our inability to integrate conversing about the Word of God into our every day conversations and our general too-busyness, we’re desperately seeking to do in an hour what realistically can’t be done in an hour: teach lessons that are evangelistic, visitor-friendly, deep, organized, structured, miss no important issues, and hold people accountable to being prepared for the lesson.
Sunday School, which ought to be a part of our “spread offense” to get the Gospel spread to the many has also become our goal-line defense, our special teams, and everything else.
And I do see some weakness in Lifeway’s material, but I think it’s because they are trying to write material that is generic enough that a teacher who wants to go deep or has time to prepare deeper can, but that it also works for the teacher who doesn’t look at the lesson until the first 10 minutes of class while someone else takes prayer request. Too many SBC churches are putting demands on the products from Lifeway that the material cannot possibly do because we’re trying to make disciples in a microwave on Sunday Morning instead of a slow-cooker all week.
SS should NEVER be a mini-sermon… that is an arrogant wish.
SS should be about teaching, connecting, and developing new leaders. As a SS teacher, you should ALWAYS be on the look-out for a replacement. That way you can start new classes with those potential leaders who’ve been trained, developed, and have practiced teaching in your class.
SS is not about rapt attention to the teacher as though they are a mini-preacher… that’s a bit self-centered i think.
“Now, here’s the kicker – the hardest questions come more from the newbies than from the ones who were raised in church. ”
This is my experience, too. And add to that I have seen it a disaster to pair an on fire new believer with a mature one who is too comfortable especially in youth situations. Metaphorically, I would rather have to file down the claws of a tiger than teach a sheep to attack.
And I thought historically SS was started to teach poor kids working in factories in England to read and write.
You’ve got the same history understanding I’ve seen—started with general education based in Scripture. Learning to read/write using Biblical material.
Then, comprehensive education lifted the need (supposedly) for that, so it became just about the Bible subjects.
“What’s frustrating is that the LifeWay material is a mile-wide, inch-deep amalgamation of sometimes five or more topics which get touched on in the course of a SS discussion”
I won’t use them for adults. The last time I used a Lifeway resource it was a precept style format on Genesis and one of the contributors wrote an introduction on how reading Genesis convicted her to not use styrofoam plates anymore for good stewardship care for our planet. (We were all sipping coffee in styrofoam cups, btw) Seriously, that was her take away from the Book of Genesis?
The Sunday School movement arose relatively recently on the historical scene. Prior to this, church services went on much longer, though.
Dan is right, I think if we all step back and tone down the rhetoric a bit, we could make this a very fruitful discussion, about the nature and purpose of worship/discipleship/evangelism services in our churches.
If a church is successful in getting non-Christians to come to SS, then it might make sense to gear those classes towards evangelism.
For one, I do not think the worship service should be geared towards evangelism, so SS might be the right place if you know the disposition of your students. But whatever material you use, make sure it does justice to the text.
“We have stopped thinking strategically, we are very linear and unilateral, we just want the people to act and think like us.”
?
Dan is asking a great question: what is your strategy for reaching unbelievers and discipline towards crossing “the line of faith”?
Traditional Southern Baptist churches treat the Sunday School as the primary evangelistic platform. The Lifeway materials support that focus especially after the CR emphasized things like having the plan of salvation outlined in each quarterly. Giving the attendees material to follow and prepare from is superior to home-grown materials created the week of.
My dad (disclaimer: pastor, FMB-appointed missionary, SSB/LifeWay consultant, and denominational church growth/SS consultant with a couple of regional SBC conventions) repeatedly told me when he was growing my abilities as a teacher that a good teacher uses materials as foundation for the presentation and can understand benefits to strategies like common curriculum. This also allows the Pastor to augment the sermon based on that curriculum.
That doesn’t mean there are no other ways to conduct a Sunday School class for adults. But Dan’s presentation was about the VALUE of LifeWay materials, not the SUPERIORITY of them. If your church doesn’t have a plan and wants to take advantage of these shared resources–the SSB even helped with things like common building plans in the past–where’s a better place to start than with the SBC entity with the explicit mission of helping you??
Greg Harvey,
What years was your father with the BSSB? BTW, good comment. Obviously your father taught you well.
Well…he was there in the spring of 1986 when I did a week of consulting work in Lotus 1-2-3 for Jim Fitch building a Super Spiral model and print out. Some before and some afterwards.
Greg Harvey,
Was your father Jim Harvey?
He is.
iPhone for the lose: disciple not discipline. Though the concepts aren’t entirely dissimilar!!
Interesting discussion. Just a disclaimer – I serve a church in Montana (definitely not the South), I believe the Sunday School is still one of the best tools to build a church, and I use Lifeway materials. Two years ago I started a class for folks who were not involved in SS. Some were church members who did not come to SS and some were unchurched. In two years this class has become the largest adult class, has spun off two other classes, and has produced new believers.
I have used Lifeway material (members enjoy it). Regularly we see lessons that touch people in current life issues. It is not perfect, but if I produced my own material, it would be even less so. If you have something that is working for you – use it. If you are not doing anything that is attracting people, growing their faith, and assimililating them into the life of the church – then I like my way better than yours.
Steve in Montana
Does no one else see the irony of someone named Steve Young working in Montana?
My father has been a Sunday School teacher for nearly 40 years. His greatest complaint about Lifeway/SS Board materials for youth (in the late 80’s), singles (mid-80’s) and adults (the rest of the time) was its shallowness. He used the materials as a blueprint for deeper lessons that fit the needs of his audience.
Once I started teaching SS, I was the guy who opened the book 10 minutes before class began. However, I started to see my Dad’s point. I, too, began to use the materials as a starting point for our learning, not as the only method.
I think like many aspects of teaching and the church, the one doing the instructing or facilitating makes an enormous difference in the quality of the learning. Excellent teachers are the ones who do their homework, who are sensitive to the unchurched in the group, who take the time to challenge the more experienced believers.
I have written about 5 quarterlies for Lifeway (specialized editions for specific groups) and I usually write from a perspective of discipleship. Evangelism is often present, but discipleship and growth is always there.
I used Master Work one time to see if it went deeper. Lifeway used John MacArthur’s material and converted to the Lifeway watered down format. It would have been better if they left the meat in it. I think we would be better off filling the Teacher’s material and the Student’s material with as much meat as possible. Then let them water it down. The SBC is in decline and it isn’t because we give people too much meat. Not every church has teachers who are capable of taking two loaves and a few small fishes and feeding 5000. My suggestion is to increase the protein of truth.
I agree: pack the material with as much content as possible, and allow the teacher/student dynamic to determine what does not make it into the discussion.
As a teacher myself, I always fill my heart with as much truth as I study. The 90% of what I have prepared has to be narrowed down to a 10% window of time. That means I have to focus on the golden nuggets and allow the bronze and similar to wait. If there ever was a time for committment among our denomination it would be for the teachers and the material they use. Let the SBC get serious about that, change our name and build once again upon discipleship. Don’t change the name for marketing purposes, change it because we have changed.
Thanks guys. THIS is the discussion I was hoping for!
I think we might also consider the constraints of the audience of the LifeWay materials. Not all teachers have multiple years of experience teaching and even with a capable person helping them prepare they could have content uptake challenges such as limited time to prepare. Having a base lesson they can teach and trusting the Holy Spirit to work with the learner–as a direct convicted and instructor–is an implicit expectation among us believer-priests. How many of us really think our beliefs are conveyed solely through human efforts??
As the pastor that led me through CWT taught me: it is our job to be faithful in our assignment with the power and strength and ability we’ve been given and leave the results to God. Sometimes–in fact–less is more.
I agree Greg, so I am wondering, what material do you recommend? I have looked at a lot of Non-Lifeway material, I use it quite a bit, but not exclusively. I really like the way Lifeway looks at the WHOLE church, and my focus is on process (mostly with Kids), but I am not inflexible.
I have seen Lifeway work well when all the tools are utalized, but it does take some teacher prep time.
Grr: “as a direct convicter” not “convicted”