I didn’t get to go to the Baptist Convention of Iowa meeting this year. My daughter is a senior and had the lead in the school play, which performed that weekend (yes, I’m bragging!). The school play trumped the state convention this year. Its the first time in many years that they carried on at the BCI without me. I hear they did just fine.
So, did you go your state convention meeting? SBC Voices readers are from all over the country (and a few internationals mixed in). I’m interested in knowing your perspective on what went on at your state convention.
- Any significant motions or resolutions?
- Tell us about those who were elected as officers.
- Hear some good (or bad) preaching you’d like to talk about?
- Was there any response to the GCR enacted at your state convention?
- What percentage does your state convention pass on and what percentage do they keep of CP gifts?
- Did you run into any fellow bloggers?
Tell us all about it.
South Carolina had an interesting convention in many ways. – We increased CP giving a whopping .5%… – We named a task force of SC entity heads (and others) to study the GCR… – But our greatest work in advancing the Gospel this year came in our bold, Kingdom-minded resolutions… we passed a resolution stating that it was bad to steal copper. Copper thieves, you better head off to GA or NC. We’re watching you here. In all seriousness, we have a great state convention filled with great people and great churches. We did elect a great President in Sonny… Read more »
I LOVE this comment. Information, encouragement and a little sarcasm – in perfect mixture.
Don’t discount the .5% – that’s money in the bank at the IMB and NAMB.
I made the suggestion years ago that we (in the Iowa convention) simply do away with resolutions and the resolutions committee. They actually took my advice. We don’t do it anymore.
At the BGCO – Oklahoma State Convention – the leadership railed against GCR “line-item” designated giving while praising the intent to impact lostness. Dr. Jordan, a man I greatly admire and respect, equated the current policies as someone designating their funds to the youth ministry because they do not like the overall direction of the church. The MAJOR problem with that, in my opinion, is that the BGCO is not a church and CP giving is not a tithe. The concern is how designated giving will affect the state convention, but I think the state should be more concerned with… Read more »
The ABSC went quite well. Nobody railed against anything, that I was aware of, but I’ll admit I didn’t sit through every moment. Instead, we tried to focus on what we could do. Finished a 5 year plan to shift the balance between state and national CP by 1% (yes, it’s .2% a year, but it’s better than nothing) by still making the shift while keeping the budget the same. So, we budgeted to reduce in-state spending while increasing forwarded. We also looked at all the ways that the money spent in-state still reaches the lost, both in our state… Read more »
In the three years I was president of the state convention here in Iowa, I sat through EVERY MINUTE of the convention. I don’t recommend it.
So, based on the lack of a resolution, is it safe to say that the Arkansas convention supports copper theft?
I spent about 50% of the time sitting outside the sanctuary, watching it on the monitors and going in to vote if it seemed necessary. I don’t think my voted mattered on anything—we had 2 contested elections, and both men were good candidates, so I voted for the one I had actually met. We feel in Arkansas, since the government is out to nickel and dime us to death, it’s not our place to stress about people’s pennies 🙂 The resolutions committee either didn’t get one of those or didn’t feel it worth our time. I’m glad, because it would… Read more »
In North Carolina we approved a smaller budget again this year, but still increased national level CP forwarding by .5%. I brought a resolution from the floor expressing gratitude to the Great Commission Task Force. It just did get enough votes to suspend the rules, but then passed overwhelmingly. The resolutions committee had declined to present it to the convention, so I felt like it was a significant move to adopt it from the floor. Some other good things as well. Our state convention executive, Milton Hollifield, said he’s in favor of a 50/50 CP split, but that churches also… Read more »
Well done, Brent.
Wasnt’ NC the state that just had the brouhaha over the state paper editor? Did that come up?
Not really, it was very under-the-radar. Even the BIblical Recorder report skirted the issue to just talk about ‘the future’. Kind of an elephant in the room kind of thing. There wasn’t really anything the convention could do, as far as I understand the situation.
What is most interesting in NC is that the “rules were suspended” for Brent’s motion, BUT the many in NC who expressed dismay that Norman Jameson was treated in such a way, no one “said a mumbling word!” Meanwhile, Norman suffered a terrible and agonizing sitution from scar tissue where his appendix was removed years ago. It took him to the hospital for emergency surgery and he is still sipping ice as he heals. Brent may not mention it, but a fellow believer needs our prayers in his time of sickness. He also does not mention the fact that all… Read more »
Alabama’s annual meeting was pretty low-key. The usual range of resolutions, including one concerning health and aimed principally at obesity and repenting over same. My pastor, Mike Shaw, was elected President; John Killian from Maytown .. whom I know to be a fine solid guy, is 1st VP, and Travis Coleman .. whom I do not know .. is 2nd VP. I do know that Travis did preach the convention sermon. There were a couple motions: one had do with allocation of money among entities and the other tried to plot the future allocations of the Convention. Both were ruled… Read more »
I think Dr. Westmoreland used to do the Ouachita report the same way when he was here in Arkansas. Great stuff.
I attended the annual meeting of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention in Corpus Christi. It was a impressive, inspirational meeting. Things are going great in the SBTC and I think it will get even better in the days ahead.
We give 55% of Cooperative Program funds to the ministries of the national Southern Baptist Convention.
I just posted an article about the SBTC at:
http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2010/11/2010-annual-meeting-of-sbtc.html
David R. Brumbelow
I’d figured you for a BGCT guy, David!!!
Thanks for the link.
Our MBC annual meeting was interesting but not the ‘newsworthy’ activity of passed years. We voted, once again, to continue the legal actions regarding the remaining breakaway agencies. Bummer. I pray for the day when this will be over. Heard much talk of many ‘in-the-know’ that hopes are high for this to be the year it ends. I hope they are correct. We spent 45+ minutes to debate the name change of Hannibal-LaGrange College to Univeristy of Hannibal and finally landed on Hannibal-LaGrange University. Not having any vested interest, I found the amount of time spent to be ridiculous. One… Read more »
How long has that lawsuit been going on? While I’d love to Windermere and the other entities returned to the MBC, hasn’t the other side won pretty much every round of that in court?
MO can’t drop the lawsuits because it would cost the MBC millions in legal fees. If you bring a lawsuit and then drop it the other side can sue for and are pretty much guaranteed to win all their years worth of legal fees.
If I file a lawsuit and lose, I’m not obligated to appeal.
How many times now has the MBC filed an appeal?
Maybe Howell Scott can weigh in. I don’t think you’ve accurately depicted MBC’s situation here.
My information comes from the Judge who acts as Parlimentarian for the MBC. So yeah I’m kinda thinking he might know a thing or two.
And BDW what I’m posting here is nothing that doesn’t get explained at every MBC and that’s pretty much why the votes are available to continue the lawsuits. Not because the majority in the MBC want to continue fighting but because the majority believe that to drop the lawsuits now would cost a lot of money.
Here’s a Pathway article:
http://www.mbcpathway.com/2010/11/motion-to-end-lawsuits-overwhelmingly-rejected/
OK, I understand that if MBC dismissed their suits right now, then the parties they sued could get recover substantial legal fees.
However, the MBC opened themselves up by continuing to appeal decisions. Correct?
The MBC did not have to appeal the decision of Judge Brown in 2004 and the MBC didn’t have to appeal the Circuit court decision back in 2008.
The short answer is there’s not just “one” lawsuit and “one” appeal. And there are numerous countersuits. Also if you fail to appeal than the other side can sue for costs. So no it’s not as simple as don’t appeal and it all ends.
Everyone can debate the merits of ever having brought suit in the first place but at this point there is no just dropping it – these lawsuits are going to have go through the system to the end.
I haven’t followed it closely, but my recollection is that most of the findings so far have been about who has standing to sue and such. Has there ever been a finding of fact on the issue?
“The short answer is there’s not just “one” lawsuit and “one” appeal. And there are numerous countersuits. Also if you fail to appeal than the other side can sue for costs.”
Yes. But it is also possible that the MBC could lose very lawsuit, countersuit, appeal, etc. and still have to pay up big $$$ in costs and fees.
MBC is only assured of avoiding those fees and costs IF they ultimately prevail.
Six years later is there any indication that that may happen, that the rulings will turn in their favor?
No because of “the American Rule” the loser doesn’t have to pay the other sides legal fees unless there is some egregious wrong doing. Many suggest that if we had “English Rule” in effect which is loser pays all fees you have a lot less litigation which is probably true. Here’s the thing BDW, honestly in the MBC the majority of the people paying attention have an attitude of “I wish we could just drop this but it doesn’t look like we can.” There is still a minority who want to litiigate becasue they think it’s right thing to do.… Read more »
I worked at Windermere for two summers in my high school years. Love the place. Just wish the thing would get settled.
What I hear from people in MO is Windemere is nothing like it was when we were kids. A lot of the area around it’s been cleared for condos I think. I remember the little cave with the bats.
Spent a LOT of time in that cave – before it was paved and lighted.
Dare any of us ask what you did in the cave???
And congratulations to Micah Fries. A blogger in office!!
Good idea to get this interaction. I attended the pastors conference or conventions in Florida, Oklahoma, South Carolina, and Missouri. Here are my impressions… Many (here and elsewhere) are talking about the change to division of CP gifts. The national momentum appears to be in the direction of states moving toward 50-50, though how (and even if) they get there will differ in each convention. It seems to me that in that journey, people are increasingly seeing their brothers and sisters not as the enemy, but as people trying to figure out how best to get the gospel to the… Read more »
I may write a blog on that. I think that copper theft should be an issue of personal conscience.
Maybe TSA should be put in charge of copper theft. I’m sure they spend every penny preventing copper from being used wrongly!
Bravo!
Please don’t do that… I work in the telecom industry. The last thing I want is some jack-booted TSA thug frisking me for accessing a phone box to connect someone’s DSL when it is my job to do so.
They have enough to worry about in molesting nuns and 3yo kids.
Why an issue of personal conscience? Theft is theft.
If I remember correctly, there was a fine episode of Friday Night Lights last year where two of the characters stole copper from a nearby farm. Sounds like this is a crime that is happening more and more in some parts of the country.
It was a joke, Aaron.
OK, Dave. The joke wasn’t exactly clear in light of your other comments asking for an explanation.
Dave, I think you did a good thing by doing away with resolutions. Have you noticed how much exposure they get in the media at the national convention? I sometimes think they get an undue amount of exposure, especially when they are goofy… or mickey… or copper… I’m glad Ed stopped by. He had to preach immediately following the resolutions report at the SC Convention and he made a comment to the effect of, “copper theft… what were you thinking?!?” It was the highlight of the convention. He preached a great sermon by the way and by his comments above… Read more »
Dave,
I was at the state convention in South Carolina and a motion passed calling for any receipts in excess of the 2011 budget goal to be kept in state and divided equally among the seven member institutions. Next to the copper resolution, this was the low point of the convention. Thought the messages and times of worship were inspiring.
Steven Ruff
Port Royal, SC
Could someone PLEASE explain the copper theft resolution? I’m baffled.
I think BGCT was considering doing away with resolutions. They didn’t do it, but they at least talked about it. I think there’s a balance with doing away with silly ones, but allowing the assembled folks to express opinions on real issues. We haven’t had much in Arkansas in a while in terms of crazy resolutions. A good resolutions committee helps with that, I guess. I have long wanted to put up a resolution at the SBC that simply says that Whereas Proverbs commends Wisdom to us, be it resolved we’ll stop wasting time on Stupidity. I think it would… Read more »
Dave,
Here is a link to the copper resolution.
http://images.acswebnetworks.com/2013/1271/5TheftofCopperandOtherMetals2.pdf
Steven
Back in 2001, when the Yankees were in the Series with the evil Diamondbacks, I submitted a resolution with solid biblical support calling on the BCI to come out on the Yankees side. I based it on the clear fact that Diamondbacks are snakes and so was the Serpent in Genesis 3. Clearly, no Christian could possibly support the Diamondbacks against the Yankees.
Somehow, that did not make it out of committee. I was deeply disappointed.
Please tell me that this useless motion was at least rapped by the presenter…
It wasn’t just copper. It was also “non-ferrous metals.”
I feel better.
What do ferrets have to do with it?
(This, too, is a joke, BDW)
I think Ferrets might have had something to do with another Baptist matter this year. Or maybe it was just dogs. I think the fine folks in Missouri took a public position in favor of some Pro Puppy Mill ballot proposition.
http://forgodssakeshutup.blogspot.com/2010/11/baptists-for-puppy-mills.html
How can you comment without reading every last word of the whole post and all affiliated links!?!?! Are you on some kind of witch hunt here?
Come on down to Arkansas…we’ve got lots of ducks to weigh against…
And yes, this whole silly tirade should be ignored if you have no sense of humor.
We have been short staffed at my work this week so I was unable to slip down and attend even just part of the Louisiana Baptist Convention. I had planned to do so and even had a lunch date planned with some of my friends who would have been in attendance. But alas, my boss was called away to a business meeting in Baton Rouge, the part timer quit, and the other office person’s husband fell ill. So I’ve been running double time here at work. So I guess I’ll have to catch next year’s meeting. I’ll post my thoughts… Read more »
A man was driving through the countryside , enjoying the beautiful fall farmland scenery ! Without warning , something caught his eye in his peripheral vision….., and behold , it was a three legged chicken….., running along and keeping up with him on the shoulder of the road at 55 mph ! After the initial shock and surprise subsided , the good ol’ country boy decided to speed up , amazed that the ol’ hen could run that fast and that it had three legs ! But when he tried to outrun it , it took off like a rocket… Read more »
Gene, this comment stream is about what went on at our state conventions. I’m not sure what this has to do with that, but let’s keep the discussion focused.
Would anybody else, besides me, steal copper to feed your family? Would you steal it from Osama bin Laden? Kim Jong-Il? Nancy Pelosi? What if you found the person who stole it from you? Would you steal it back? Is that really stealing? If enough people address this crucial issue, will Dave create a Copper Theft Playground?
If you steal the copper from Speaker Pelosi, her hair will fall down from that funky-shape. The manner in which one recovers stolen property determines whether or not it’s theft. If you walk in, say “this is my copper, and I’m taking it back” it’s dangerous, but not theft. If you sneak in in the night, you’re stealing. As to the deep question, would I steal copper to feed my family? Probably not, as they can’t eat copper. And I have no idea what I would actually do if faced with having to steal food to feed them. Sitting here,… Read more »
Copper theft is rampant around here. Some yahoo will destroy a $2k AC unit for $20 of copper. We had someone snip no more that two or three dollars worth of copper from our church’s outside units. Cost us $600 to fix it. That said, I think praying for divine intervention is less effective than the state passing laws requiring recycler to keep records, even photos of people who bring in copper; however, if God would respond to imprecatory prayers on the copper thieves, that would be more effective. My favorite resolution was one offered at an SBC meeting on… Read more »
I’m glad to know that this is an actual problem. I’ve never heard of the copper theft epidemic, so I had no idea why they would actually take the time to do a resolution.
At least they gave us grist for the discussion mill.
Dave,
Actually it was a problem here in Iowa a couple of years ago when copper was real high. As a matter of fact a person died when his home was broken into and someone stole all the copper they could find including the gas line. When the owner come home there was a gas explosion in which he was killed.
But what that has to do with SBC meetings I have no idea.
You may have to go back to the old days in some of these state where the thief cannot run faster than a 30-06 ;o)
I have heard of the metal theft issues, and we had them here in Arkansas. I think there was some legislation that passed to help with it, along what Mr. Thornton speaks of. There were some housing developments in the Memphis area that were having to slow down because of the economic problems, and they got stripped.
Fairness in hiring referees? Is that why they started hiring the visually impaired ones? 🙂
I knew it was a problem here, but it just seemed a little much to be worth a resolution.
So what’s going on in Oklahoma?
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5891/53/
We’ve got quite a few Okie readers – maybe someone there knows. There could be so many reasons.
I understand that the editor resignation in Oklahoma is not at all related to anything political in the SBC or that state.
Good to hear.
I hear ya Louis. I just thought it was interesting that on the same day that ABP announces Baker’s resignation after only 15 months on the job (no reason for resignation given), Baker’s good friend publishes this blog post over at the SEBTS’ Between The Times on the subject of being fired/forced resignations.
http://betweenthetimes.com/2010/11/19/what-are-you-willing-to-be-fired-over/
Additionally, Tim Rogers has this tweet up. Just interesting that a couple of well-known bloggers are talking about firing on the same day of the announcement of the sudden resignation of the 3rd largest state Baptist newspaper editor.
Rogers’ tweet: http://twitter.com/Timothy_Rogers/status/5715675804860417
Maybe his tweet is completely unrelated to the Between the Times post. Who knows. But the Between the Times post doesn’t mention baptism.
It is interesting to see two of the better SBC state paper editors resign in the last month.
I would guess that Tim is responding to BtT in his tweet. But I doubt either of those had anything to do with the guy in Oklahoma.
Tim’s comment is in line with many he has made through the years as one of the most vocal BI adherents.
Btw,
I have never attended our state meeting. I will go on record as suspecting that I will never attend our state meeting.
That meeting does not interest me.
Aaron, My post at Between the Times was unrelated to Doug’s resignation or any other specific personnel matter. This is a topic I discuss every semester in class, and I’ve hoped to post on it for months. I finally had time to write the post earlier this week. Dave (and perhaps others), Why all this hating on resolutions? I understand that some aren’t as, ahem, substantive as others, but I’m curious as to why you are opposed to them in principle? I think it’s a helpful exercise for conventions (and associations, and churches) to go “on the record” about important… Read more »
Dr. Finn, I am not opposed to them as much as I just dubious that they accomplish much – especially at the state level. Has anyone ever changed their behavior on anything because of a resolution passed at a state convention meeting? I guess I would be more interested in hearing someone explain why they are valuable – what real purpose they serve. I don’t know who could do that – perhaps someone with access to one of the most prominent Baptist blogs? Honestly, I would love to read an explanation of the rationale and a defense of the value… Read more »
Notice how smoothly I passed the buck?
Nathan (and others),
Do you have any idea just how much attention the average person in the SBC pew pays attention to things like resolutions? I’m not asking about the folks who volunteer to go as messengers either.
I have my own ideas, but I wonder if they are in line with others’ observations and opinions.
They do make the press sometimes, on big issues.
I thought the chatter regarding “theft of non-ferrous metals” that purportedly was the subject of a resolution at the North Carolina state convention last week was just someone being a wise guy and making fun of some of the resolutions that come up at state conventions. But I checked out the NC Baptist website and, lo and behold, they actually did have a resolution on that subject. The essence of the resolution is that theft of non-ferrous metals, such as copper, victimize churches quite a bit because people are stealing air conditioner equipment from churches because of the salvage value… Read more »
Is that a bad thing?
I am fairly involved in convention matters, because I think they matter. But I’ve never tried to get my people involved in convention life. Maybe I should.
Roger– I totally agree. Our Baptist strength in the past has been large involvement by the laity in the meeting. Here in NC, some years ago we had approximately 30% of the attendees who were church members. Many churches bought busses to facilitate lay participation. Part of the problem is that ministers have their attendance funded by a part of the budget. Few churches fund the attendance of members. If we want full participation so that people feel a part of the annual meeting, we should help them go from the budget. Motels, meals, and travel become heavy quickly. When… Read more »
Baptists have a democratic form of government. However, I’d say that the “real world” situation is that lay people are virtually absent from the “inner workings” of the state conventions, seminaries, and national agencies. There are notible exceptions — Judge Pressler comes to mind. I attended a Board of Trustees meeting of the IMB last year. I paid my own transportation costs as well as hotel and all other expenses. That trip cost me about $1,000. At the time I was concerned about the real (or imagined) infighting that was going on between “camps” of BoT members. I felt that… Read more »
Dave & All,
Wade Burleson has written about Doug Baker’s resignation over at BaptistLife.com in the SBC Forum. Here’s the link:
http://tinyurl.com/dougbaker