Dr Yeats: Interrelationships of the three levels of fellowship.
- The association was the primary point of fellowship and accountability.
- States gathered CP
- National SBC manages the entities of the SBC.
99% of churches affiliate at all 3 levels.
Dr. Chitwood: What drew you to Executive position?
Saw the value of that position in the kingdom strengthening and blessing the local churches.
Dr. Jordan: How have state conventions changed in 20 years?
They are leaner and more focused.
Dr. Richard: Birth of the SBTC
Great resistance from the BGCT to the CR and conservative SBs in 1992 to 1998 tried to engage but lost. So, they stated their differences – inerrancy, women in ministry, homosexuality, funding organizations opposed to SBC, and abortion. November of 1998, 120 churches joined and formed the convention.
In first 4 years they went to 1000. Growth continued at a slower rate.
- Chitwood – 2400 churches in Kentucky. Strong and growing.
- Lubinus – 125 churches are in Iowa.
- Yeats (Missouri) – 1900 churches
- Richards – 2510 churches.
- Jordan (Oklahoma) –
Reflect on the 50-50 Split idea
Richards – 55% going to the SBC and 45% staying at the SBTC. If every member tithes and every church gives 10%, then
Lubinus – Iowa was at 80-20. We went right to 50-50 and let the budget chips fall where they may.
Chitwood – IMB chair when missionary downturn began, so adopted a 10 year plan. Currently 46.5 % sent on. Reduced staffing and allocations, reorganized and became more effective.
Yeats – tried to become lean and focused. Have shared items. Also have 16% that is obligated to items like colleges, children’s home, and such (plus the rogue agencies). Plan to give the increases to the SBC.
Jordan – 40% SBC, 15% to institutions, rest to OK Bapt. Last week 6 positions weere cut. Collegiate ministry is among the biggest costs, but it is impactful. Children’s home. OBU. Falls Creek. Highest % per church to the CP.
What is unique contribution of state convention?
Jordan – states can sometimes do R&D that national SBC doesn’t do anymore.
YEats – we can deal with local issues of public policy and religious liberty. Capacity to convene the people of God.
How will state conventions look different in 5 years.
Richards – as long as we are entrepreneurial and responsive to churches, there will be a future.
Lubinus – we’ve seen the end of anti-denominationalism. People want to be a part of something bigger than themselves.
Chitwood – they will not disappear, the need will grow. Must be lean and responsive. Confessional.
Yeats – Much more diverse. IN hiring practices and in everything else, we must cultivate racial diversity.
Jordan – Leaner. Greater desire to partner with entities at national level.
I believe it is telling that this topic generates little or no interest. Pastors and churches have foretold the future of state convention by collectively saying, “yawn”. The train has left the station and is headed southward. Florida, Iowa, Georgia, and Kentucky are recent examples.
I’m just going on Dave’s quick summary of what he thought to be salient points in this panel but the discussion is already over when a SC leader talks of “shared” items in their budget or has to explain that a big chunk of the budget goes to various institutions within the state, as if that somehow assuages those who think states keep too much of the CP dollar.
State conventions are 15 years or more late in downsizing and almost all of the cuts they have made are as a result of reductions in revenue that forced the staffing cuts. When a new generation of state leaders begins to lead, I suspect we will see something like what Florida has done – drastically and preemptively cut staff and decentralize. Maybe, maybe that will regain the diminishing support of churches.
Being in Missouri, I think Yeats has done a good job of correcting some of the wrong turns of the previous administration.
That said, other than is giving a small sum to the children’s home, I’m not overly sure what the state does. Most of what I see them advertised we already get at the associational or national level.
If we for whatever reason had to disconnect our church from one of the the cooperative levels, we’d feel it at the association level and the national level, but I’m not sure what we’d miss at the state.
For the amount of money they receive from our cp $$$, I don’t see much relevance to my church’s life.
In Tennessee, our State Convention supports the TN Baptist Children’s Homes, the Baptist Collegiate Ministries, Union University, Carson Newman University, Disaster Relief Ministries, Adult Homes for the Mentally Handicapped, New Church Starts, etc…..all very worthy ministries, which reach people for Christ.
David
I agree Volfan, TN does a pretty good job of keeping folks aware of the needs.
It looks like the Missouri convention is going through a reorganization as well. There’s supposedly going to be some big announcements about it at their annual meeting. There’s not been an official press release that I can find, but their executive board has apparently already voted for it.
http://www.mbcpathway.com/2015/07/29/mbc-board-affirms-vision-mission/
I’m not a huge fan of the wastefulness of State conventions. As I’ve read about things in my own state and others, I’ve been shocked by the spending on things like facilities and redundant staff. Why our state conventions spend hundreds of thousands of dollars employing Sunday School consultants, for example, I don’t understand. All they seem to do is act as middle men for Lifeway at CP’s expense.
At the same time, the State conventions seem to give more opportunity for average Southern Baptists to be involved in convention life. In many states almost any pastor who wants to take the time to volunteer can find himself elected to the state Executive Board. I’m glad for the distribution of power. I don’t know that I’d want a CP managed solely by a few people in one large ivory tower.
In Oklahoma I would not feel anything much if I cut from the association. I know that OK supports Oklahoma Baptist Univ, Falls Creek Youth Camp, OK Bapt Childrens Home, Hope Pregnancy Centers, Ok Disater Relief, etc.
They do lots to support churches through training etc. I suppose that in the past that the association served as a go between, but with our information age it feels a bit redundant.
Luke
I pastored about 17 or so years in Oklahoma. During that time Collegiate ministries (BSU at that time) received a lions share of the money. Honestly, I did not see a lot of results from that expenditure. Has this changed any.
Dr. Jordan made the remarks of funding BCM’s on 36 campuses. Most, if not all, of those funded were full-time positions. But as of about 10 years ago that is no longer the case. I think all of it to your schools have been cut to part time. That means about 15,000 a year in salary only. And many of the four-year schools have been cut as well. I know the local college here in Tishomingo was cut from full-time to a part-time position. When you add in benefits package and everything else, it’s probably a loss of money being spent of $30,000 or more. Just at this college. I don’t know off the top of my head which entity gets the most money in the state. I’ll look it up tomorrow though. Good question. Would be interesting to see a comparison for each state, which entity or department gets the most money From CP dollars.
I’m sorry. That’s all the two year schools have been cut to part time.
Luke
Thanks much for the info. I think that was a good move on Dr. Jordan’s part. I suspect it was a hot button issue.
To say it was hot button is understated. There was a big cry from local associations when their BCM director was threatened to be fired, or have pay cut in half. Some JUCO directors started being responsible for 2 or more campuses/colleges. I know of one who had two JUCO’s over 80 miles apart. Very hard work. But I think it was probably a right choice. But easy for me to say when it’s not my job on the line. Many of the same dynamics in play in GA and FL where state conventions are being cut. I might think it’s a good idea, but it’s not my job.
Luke
I pastored one of the FBC’s in an Oklahoma town that had a state campus and a full time BSU director. The church was part of the funding process and involved in the ministry. To be honest I saw little to no results of the ministry. Now I am the first to admit that was one campus and there are a bazillion in Oklahoma. Way back in the day I was campus minister at Immanuel in Shawnee. I had a presence on campus, FBC had a presence as did University. However, the state put a full time BSU guy there and I never did understand that. But again that is personal opinion.
I also understand the loss of job issue at any level is traumatic. That is not fun. Been there done that. However, if the CP is ever going to get back to a decent level, all entities especially state conventions will have to show that giving to CP is a value. Obviously one way is to push more money to the EC, but another is to eliminate what is viewed as waste. Overstaffing seems to fall into that category. Hard times call for difficult decisions. I do not agree with some of the decisions Platt has made, but he has shown a lot of moxie in being willing to make the hard decisions. Dr. Jordan has always been able to make tough choices. Both good men.
I glanced through the BGCO Annuals, and came up with a few numbers.
Last year our state missions offering goal was 1.135 million, with the majority of that going to church planting, 375K. The next closest was Assoc and Smaller in Attendance Outreach, with 180K. But that’s just the yearly special offering.
Oklahoma sends 40% to SBC, and gives 15 percent to BGCO affiliates. Of those, OK Baptist Univ is by far the biggest recipient at over 2 million. Of the remaining, Falls Creek Youth Camp is the largest recipient. For operating costs, personnel, etc. This seems fair to me. To have close to 50k campers come through each season is no small thing.
Luke
I do miss Falls Creek
Let me chime in a bit late here and say that in my location, the state Convention has been very important, for two reasons. (1) In what is still considered a “pioneer” state, not all of our associations are strong. While they may provide adequate fellowship, they do not all possess the support and training mechanisms available at the State level. Throughout my 20 years in pastoral ministry, the State Convention has been a primary source of training, resourcing, and fellowship. Further, without the leadership at the state level, virtually no church planting would have been done in my state. (2) The state convention has invested heavily in me as a pastor and a man. I would not be who I am today without the encouragement, mentoring, and investment made in me by leaders at the state level.
I know that Indiana is not like the South and I cannot speak to what State Conventions do there, but I am exceedingly grateful for our state convention and will continue to support and participate in it.