I have served in Vocational Ministry for a little more than a decade when I was transitioned out. I have been an interim,Youth Pastor, Education Pastor, Associate Pastor, Campus Missionary and Teacher. Currently I am working in a manufacturing plant. It’s a good job, good pay but it’s not where my heart is. I want to share with you today a view from someone who feels a calling and a burden, but for some purpose, God has moved me away from the vocation that I cherished for a time.
The Pastorate can be burdensome, it comes with expectations that are sometimes unfair and requirements that stretch you too thin. It’s hard on families, especially wives. It’s draining and tiring and often a huge heartache, and I loved every minute of it. I didn’t have a moral failure or anything, just a reality of church work is sometimes God moves you out of a church. Sometimes to another church, or in my case into a secular job. It can be heart wrenching but it always has purpose.
Vocational ministry allowed me to serve out of my biggest gifts and in my strengths. I always had people in my office to discuss theology and the Bible. I was able to teach often, prepare material, support others in their endeavors and promote great things like Sunday School. I was in a great place, but it came to an end. I don’t get to use the same skills to the extent in my new job. I do get to talk to people about the Bible, and I get to teach a little bit, mostly during breaks when someone wants to know more about something. It’s nothing like being in Ministry.
If I had that time back in my life, if I suddenly found myself in Ministry again (and I plan to be in Ministry again someday), I would cherish is more. I would welcome the office visits and the hard questions. Even the tedious meetings and griping people I would find joy in. Not because those things are pleasant, but because it means we get to work with people in real issues. We get to serve people and serve God in the mess. Life is messy, the church is messy, let’s face it, we are messy. Having the opportunity to walk with people as God cleans our mess is one of the biggest blessings in life. I hope those of you in vocational ministry take time today and every day to thank God for His calling in your life. If you would, say a prayer for me, that I would learn what I need to learn quickly and get back into those things I love. Let’s all give thanks for God’s provision and the blessing of His people.
This was an encouragement, Dan. Thank you. Prayers for you.
Saw a statistic recently that said half of seminary grads are out of vocational ministry five years after graduation. Same piece mentioned that Forbes magazine ranked clergy as being in the top five most challenging leadership roles. The rule of thumb stat that only 10% of clergy will serve until retirement was used as well.
Hope you find your place. With declining membership, giving, and public respect, this is a tough vocation.
Sounds about right. I wasn’t far past the five year mark when I came to my senses.
We all “come to our senses” (whatever we make that mean) at different rates…mine was less than five years.
Dan,
I am going to challenge your view a little,… only because I hear this vocational vs non-vocational dichotomy ever so often.
If we are truly to be content in where and how God places us in ministry, then we should by all means strive and aspire to be content and continue to qualify in ministry and use the gifts the God has placed in us. There is not really any room for…. “if I had a do-over” clause in the activity of ministry. The excellent realm of the New Covenant is that it has effectually made every moment an opportunity in our lives, and the Holy Spirit has been given to guide those opportunities, as a helper, to expose Christ in this world. If we shun the Holy Spirit, we lack ministry, whether or not it lines up in the American thought process of vocation or non-vocational. In the scriptures I read, to be content is part of that ministry, as we are pressing forward and starting over, every minute of every day, in every place.
So the questions I have back to you would be:
-Why do you think your not in Ministry?
-Why would you cherish the visits, and hard questions?
-What keeps you from getting those today?
-If your heart is drawn to tedious meetings and griping folks turn your crank, then I can lend you some.
-Why are those tedious, real, and griping people confined to a “vocational ministry?
-Why can’t you clean up messes with people…even today?
“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. 9 The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you. But I rejoiced in the Lord greatly, that now at last you have revived your concern for me; indeed, you were concerned before, but you lacked opportunity. 11 Not that I speak from want, for I have learned to be content in whatever circumstances I am. 12 I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need. 13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.” NASB
We have been called to Ministry. My encouragement is not to get too wrapped up in thinking that ministry has to fit the eye (sometimes called the heart).
Respectfully,
Chris
Thanks for your post Chris, and I always used the description on vocational ministry, because I am in ministry. The biggest factor is time. Vocational ministry gives you the time you need, which is why the apostles were funded by giving, so they had time to focus on ministry without working.
Dan, I do understand the difference of being handed a dollar by a church member, and being handed a dollar by a corporation or business owner, yet I do not believe that specific exchange has a great effect on ministry. In fact, it can be argued that the later gives one more resources and time.
We all have the same amount of time. Isn’t it what we do with the time that makes the difference?
It is possible to be in full time ministry and get a dollar from a corporation or business owner. Somehow “church professionalism” has created a false dichotomy about what the Holy Spirit has called to ministry.
I agree with the SBC plodder that things are changing with the “occupation” of ministry. At least in the SBC, I don’t think there are any net new “ministry job”. We have more people in seminary now than could possibly get jobs.
Of course this is true with many occupations. People go to college to learn skills and in the aggregate their are not enough jobs for these skills. So only a fraction of the graduates have any realistic hope of using their degree to enhance their career.
However, if the average seminary grad only stays in the ministry for five years then I guess that this gives “more opportunity” for others who will replace them. What kind of a system is it where the norm is that when you receive your degree from a specialized graduate school (i.e. seminary) your average career duration is only five years. Given that a person’s “working life” is probably something like 40 to 50 years then I guess this implies that seminaries are graduating 5 to 10 times more MDivs (and other degrees) than what the market will bear.
In my case I attended a seminary for a while but I had absolutely no aspiration of any vocational work. I just wanted to learn the Bible in a “serious” way so I could be involved in some type of missionary service after retirement from Silicon Valley where I would pay my own way during my years of service.
I think Chris is on to something. We should NOT conflate ministry with getting paid.
“In my case I attended a seminary for a while but I had absolutely no aspiration of any vocational work.”…Roger, That is absolutely on the mark.
We are all called to ministry (no capital or small letters should attend to the meaning)! Men (just to be clear…not focusing on the ladies in this conversation) aspire to all kinds of work in the church…Aspiring to Elder (Pastor) is simply a matter of aspiring and qualifying (that is were seminary can be helpful, or in some cases harmful…hopefully the former) Aspiring to ministry happens whether one chooses to study within the confines of a seminary, or does not choose to study within the confines of a seminary. Christians have no other option but to ministry. Now how one chooses to use time in ministry is the question.
For instance,…We have an Elder (Pastor) that raises all his own money to spend full time in ministry. Two of our other Elders work for corporations in order to provide for their families, and the ministry. Currently about 98% of the revenues that come through the church go to mission work. That is the model for how we delegate dollars toward ministry today…that could change as well, at any time, as the congregation agrees.
Chris, Regard your church’s setup:
1. Do you recognize that other churches may decide to support their pastor full-time without violating any biblical direction?
2. Do you know how many of your church members, who give to the church, also give privately to support the pastor in his fund-raising?
3. While I do not want to diminish the remarkable 98% your church gives to missions…Do you know how much of that goes to missionaries salaries for their livelihood? My point being that a church should not necessarily see money going to a pastors salary as “non-ministry” funding.
Hi Dan–
Chris had some good comments for us all.
“Vocational Ministry” got coined and stuck in the church world lingo some years back.
How I wish we could go backwards long enough to be rid of it.
Also, Evangelical Christian preachers, in their quest to compartmentalize and assure a clear, secure title and role in the church (for themselves), make a big to do about their being “in ministry” and the rest of us “secular” padawans not being in “real ministry” without a title of their approval.
Ironic in that the same pastors claim to champion “priesthood of the believer”–a title give to all Saints in Christendom. (wouldn’t Priest trump Preacher?) Those who lead us as “Pastor” are not always the most secure among us. This shows up in many ways. Too often they must have title and position as a means of personal approval and security. These same individuals then wield this false bravado in stark contrast to I Peter 5:1-5. “Don’t be bossy to those people who are in your care, but set an example for them.”
How I pray that you and I can move beyond what men tell us we are and aren’t–can and can’t.
The reality is that God needs called men and women who will be his ministers in every profession. These people go and minister in places no local church pastor would ever reach.
Sometimes men are like boys who think they are in love with the girl. They are really more in love with the way they feel about themselves when they are with that girl. She discovers this, but only later when she is ignored for the umpteenth time. The pastorate or any other gratifying position in the practice of our faith can be the same way. Careful here.
If you and I have a job and not a ministry, then we will experience eventual doldrums and begrudging attitudes born of poor theology.
Do you think that Paul allowed anyone to poo-poo on his craft as a tent-maker, causing him to be depressed about how unimportant he was because he had to do “secular” work? His tent work was not his B life and missions his A. They were one in the same.
Keep the vocation God gives you and remind yourself every day that “job” is what non-Christians have. Every Christian has a ministry that begins each day upon awakening and going forward. Only miss-guided preachers and people of the world and you yourself will allow you to misname and miss out on the blessings of that ministry.
EVERY CHRISTIAN IS IN VOCATIONAL MINISTRY!
Ego and pride, not God, will place one title/position in importance over the other. If anything, is it not the unseemly members that God elevates?
Like Paul, we are all just water-boys who, if we are to brag, prefer to brag about our weaknesses. That will minister to your friends at work. There is a sermon they won’t hear under a church building roof-top.
True blessings–Glenn W. Harrell
“How I pray that you and I can move beyond what men tell us we are and aren’t–can and can’t.”
It seems that you are doing what you pray you can move beyond.
“EVERY CHRISTIAN IS IN VOCATIONAL MINISTRY!”
Not by everyone’s definition of vocational ministry.
I have met very few ministers who may fit the profile you paint above. In my experience, they are in the extreme vast minority. If my experience is true then the wide brush you are painting with needs to be changed.
“Like Paul, we are all just water-boys who, if we are to brag, prefer to brag about our weaknesses.”
And what are your weaknesses? I ask because all I read is your personal thoughts on the matter which seem to be presented in a way to show your greater intellect on the subject.
Thoughts from a Full-Time Vocational Minister in the Middle East.
Jon L. Estes
Hi Jon,
I am an old man by most standards and my weaknesses far outnumber the years of my age and they certainly far outnumber my strengths.
How else can a man recognize the faults and imperfections in others unless he has them and deals with them first within himself?
I see Empire building and Denominational loyalties as home base and breeding ground for the hyper separations of Christians and Christians who lead others within congregations. This is where words like “laity”–“clergy”, and “Reverend” come from. All the power-play we so often erect and reward is juxtaposed with the positions and character needed for the Christ-like service in humility we find in the scripture.
When I hear a young man seeking to lead others in ministry as Elder/Pastor/Teacher, my concern for him and the church is that
he and they not choose to further feed the beast. (I like to see a minimum of three gray hairs on his head)
My Seminary training did not teach this but my bible certainly did and does. After 39 years serving within the local church, home and overseas missions, I am convinced that (as Southern Baptists) we have played the denomination card nearly to its end. Many of the positions and titles we have created are finding their resolve towards a version of missions and ministry reflecting the simple governmental structure and title of position offered in scriptures. (the character of person required as well)
I believe much of this is what Dan is struggling with.
I give young men the advise Chuck Swindoll offers, Don’t try to do ministry in the local church as a leader unless God won’t allow you to do anything else.”
I also offer James 3:1
“My friends, we should not all try to become teachers. In fact, teachers will be judged more strictly than others.”
Yes, my brush is wide. It offers the truth and permission simultaneously for all of us as God’s children to take responsibility and privilege, both given to us, for the Great Commission. And to do them with or without title. My overwhelming experience is that when I do little or nothing without the title, I will do just this much with one. When this happens the title also assures I will be a jerk at ministry until God removes the deceptive titles man is so quick to revere and bequeath.
Any man or woman thus not yet broken will carry on vain tradition as if it is normal to the Christian walk.
Vocation and occupation and job and workplace–all these are where all Christians do their respective ministries. And you are correct, not all Christians go to their workplace and shine as intended. I remind our congregation each week of their unique and all important role they fulfill.
Without this reminder, they will continue to believe only the “Vocational clergy” are to do these things. We have generations of this to overcome and no, not everyone believes that statement.
Grand blessings to you and your family and the ministries God has given to you.
Glenn W. Harrell
I am very fortunate to be in full-time vocational ministry at this time, though I realize that may change with church and/or economic conditions.
I agree with Chris on some of his points, especially that many of those now preparing for vocational ministry will not find full-time work in their ministry field. I do nit believe this means they were not called to ministry. My view of calling tends toward saying God has called you where you are…for 27 years, I was called to be single, for a time I was called to be a non-paid minister, for a time, I was called to be a bivocational minister, for now, I am called to be a full-time pastor, husband, and father…that may change in the future.
however, I’m not sure Chris is recognizing In His comment that I have the time to meet anyone anytime to discuss spiritual things, rather than sit or stand at a workstation all day…there is real advantage to that. The disadvantage is that I am not around unbelievers all day.
Andy, those are all very real points IMHO. I am trying to be gentle here, because I do understand that there is a sentiment, especially around seminary training, that if I’m not the guy that is nose to nose with an unbeliever…I may not be fulfilling my calling. I’m using the last sentence as an extreme, but in my experience it is that type of sentiment that steers young men into a wrong way of thinking about ministry.
I think the point that Dan has brought forward is an extremely important one! Because it tears off the bandaid that may be covering a series of wounds, or aspirations that ministry be somewhat professional in nature; when the reality is that ministry is the calling (not the profession), and aspiring is the action taken to fulfill ministry.
Pastors have a way of trying to marginalize things for the sake of a “calling”. When all are called, and God makes application of gifting (all sorts and kinds) for the building up of his church, since aspiring is the motivation of anyone that is empowered by the Holy Spirit.
Being “full time” (fully funded by the church members definition) does not guarantee that everyone can be met with anyway. That is why Pastors may get frustrated, or have false expectations thrust on them by the congregation.
As in many things, I am convinced that balance and grace win the day here, and allow for a lifetime of ministry. If I think my pastoral role is 40 hours of evangelism and meeting with unbelievers, I’m probably not equipping others in the church to do that, and I will burn out. If I think my pastoral role is 40 hours of Sermon prep, then I probably need to get out of the office and go golfing with the guy whose marriage is falling apart.
And of course you are right that no pastor can meet with everyone, which is why ministry MUST be a church-wide endeavor.
I do not think we can biblically look at an un-paid pastor, or a bi-vocational pastor, and say he is any less called then a full-time paid pastor…and I don’t think we can look at a full-time paid pastor and say he is somehow out of line with biblical instruction by accepting his livelihood from his church. I think a survey of history and world-wide churches will show a wide variety of set-ups that work in different situations.
Andy,…two thumbs up on that entire comment! Love that first line. Balance and grace do win the day, because ministry is always a full time gig for believers. The Apostle Paul’s encouragement that Elders (Pastors) working hard are worthy of double honor surely tells us how the Holy Spirit places value on the Word being taught to the church, and gives us a glimpse of how the church should pay attention and invest as much as possible in those endeavors through a variety of means. Paul’s encouragement to Timothy and Titus also demonstrate that men aspire to this important work, as the Holy Spirit has established the gifting required to effectively qualify and carry out the mission to the local body.
Dan,
Thank you for sharing your heart with us. Every believer has a unique call from the Lord you can trust Him to place you where he wants you to be. God requires all of us to be faithful where he has planted us. May the Lord Bless you as he uses you for His Glory.
wilbur
Dan I appreciate your honesty and vulnerability. I am seminary educated and was in vocational ministry for 12 years before “burning out.” I then went into the financial services world for a few years before I got the opportunity to be the director of the non profit I’m associated with now for 4 plus years. I remember vividly the struggles I had as I wrestled with myself over demitting my ordination call. It was a tortuous time clouded by my then closely held misconceptions of being “called” to ministry. I read a number of books on calling and sought counsel from several seasoned and wise pastors. All of that was helpful for me to come to peace with my decision.
One book that I read a few years ago was The Call by Os Guinness. I highly recommend it. Here is an excerpt from someone’s notes on the book (or maybe a seminar by Os).
“Privatization is the process by which modernization produces a
cleavage between public and private spheres of life and reinforces the private sphere as the special arena for individual freedom, fulfillment – and faith. The problem with Western Christians is not that they aren’t where they should be but that they aren’t what they should be where they are. Responding to Jesus’ call touches the world of fishing as well as preaching, the depths of the lake, not just the shore. All that we are, all that we do, all that we have, and even all that we think and dream is called into question by this demand. Once again, it is a matter of everyone, everywhere, and everything.”
http://narrowgateefl.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/The-Call-A-Summary.pdf
I recommend the book along with The Preacher and Preaching: Reviving the Art, Samuel Logan editor. The chapter on “calling” is very good.
Thank you again for sharing what many others are no doubt struggling with.
I guess this is where I find my niche in bi-voactional ministry. I work for a huge corporation and pastor a small rural church. I enjoy what I do, even though it isn’t necessarily what I prepared for all those many years ago in seminary. No one would have thought I’d end up anywhere other than full-time ministry, but I found my place through experience, not education. I have been a full-time pastor, but I never quite fit that mold. For me, bi-vocational is the way to go.
“bi-vo-actional”……I think I just made up a new word…..
Dale, I am assuming you saw “the play” in the Oregon vs. Utah game???
wow. That was hilarious, sad, and several great plays all rolled into one! (Of course it was not sad to you, I am sure)
It brought me out of my chair yelling and screaming for joy. Other than that, no big deal. LOL
If there was ever a single moment momentum changer that was it that completely changed the game…this was it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZU_Dk6aRfUQ
To me, this play was just as much a determining factor in who won this game as was the Auburn TD return on the Alabama field goal attempt last season.
That really took the sails out of the sails of the Utah Uttes.
Tarheel, there can be no doubt about it. I was concerned about the Ducks actually winning that game up until that happened. From that point on, it was all Ducks.
I think bivocational ministry may be a great strategy in a lot of places. Neither vocational or bivo are superior. Both are biblical. It’s the situation and the church.
Dan, best of wishes for you. Hopefully you can go where you are gifted. I’d love to be in some sort of vocational ministry. Given that I haven’t had much in the way of encouragement (the affirmation factor), I can’t rightly conclude that God wants me in vocational ministry. Of course, I don’t have affirmation of much of anything, so I can only conclude that God doesn’t want me to do much, which doesn’t seem right either. So I’ll try to stay equipped and see if anything opens up as I head into my later years. I think that’s the best any of us can do.
On the other hand, I have noticed many Southern Baptists going through seminary and I don’t have any idea what kind of ministry they are all thinking of. I get a sense that God is setting us up for some big change in the world that will require many of us to be well-equipped to do ministry. So hang on and expect great ministry in challenging times.
Dan,
I discovered being a bi-vocational minister that my entire life is a ministry, whether I’m pastoring or not, I don’t know how to measure success in the ministry, but if I would do any measuring I would have to say that I’ve had more success influencing people while I was not pastoring and only working my public job. I cannot tell you how many folks I’ve helped and pointed the way for them to get back in church, all I can say is a lot.
Dan, one can be as busy as they want to be. I’m a retired senior citizen, legally blind, old and grumpy, with a touch of cancer. Just this week I had a church laid at my doorstep, by the way, I didn’t ask for it. The Lord showed me I should accept it and give it my all. I will do everything I can to rebuild the church and hopefully see God bless it once again. The church is in such poor shape that it cannot pay the preacher, but I have never been in the ministry for the money, my public job always provided me all the money I needed.
Dan, where was Paul’s church?
Dan
Be assured of prayers as you seek your role in Kingdom work. There is not a right or wrong way, no good or bad..there is God’s will for your life today and the operative word in that sentence is “today”.
Im my case I began full time vocational ministry when I graduated seminary in 1969. I am still there today, however every morning of my life I ask God where he wants me. Next week God may have a different plan. Each day has been an adventure with high spots and extremely low spots. There is no model to follow, each man is precious in God’s eyes and God will deal with him individually.
Good word D.L.!
Count me as one prayerfully considering a departure from full-time vocational Christian ministry to full-time secular work with weekends then available to assist congregations and other pastors with church health/growth matters. God opened that door last year–and I love the difference! After 25 years’ full-time ministry, I now help those I mentioned in my area of expertise while working Monday-Friday as a hospital executive; the stress is considerably less each week, my fellow execs and the pastors/churches requesting it appreciate what I know and do, and my salary is much-much greater. With SBC congregations trending downward still (each declining one led, I would add, by a senior pastor who probably holds an earned graduate degree), probably many clergy folk will be required to follow this route in the coming years (unless a Great Commandment Emergence produces an intentional and strategic Great Commission Resurgence [not vice versa] as in decades past). The Bible shows that our lives are composed of times followed by seasons followed by times followed by seasons, etc.; maybe now is a season for you–when God wants to do good things to you so that He can do good things through soon. The seasons are hard but always followed by fruitful times. Hang in there!
Dan, Thank you again for bringing this subject to light, …. as I believe it is one of the most important issues that the SBC has to contend with for the future and the maturing of the Saints. I want to also stress that the call to ministry is to every believer,…it is certainly not so much as “how” we define “a vocation”, although how one survives and is supported in that survival (takes care of his family, and gives back to the church) is of great importance; but, ministry is about being called into action for each and everyone that God authors faith toward, and graciously expands that faith into the future of their ministry for His glory.
The Apostle Paul put it this way to those at Rome:
“I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”
“For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another. Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; the one who teaches, in his teaching; the one who exhorts, in his exhortation; the one who contributes, in generosity; the one who leads, with zeal; the one who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.”
“Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.” NASB
Oh that we could act out or faith and worship in this manner! Not compartmentalizing ministry, but seeing faith for what it is in each member that God has so excellently put together. If there is a “vocation”, may it be ministry, and may God expand our faith to know how to engage in the actions he has set before us.
Blessings,
Chris
Dan, I have been where you are now.. Except I have never served on a church staff. I have worked for the same company since I started seminary in 2002, stayed here through two graduations – M.A. In 2008 and MDiv in 2010. I even had to relocate in order to keep my job in an unstable job market. The desire to be in vocational ministry is still there but seems to get further and further away as each year passes that I get further from my graduation from seminary. Prior to our relocation I was actively serving in our local church in MN and was active doing Bible teaching in Sunday School and had a lot of opportunities to preach doing pulpit supply. Now here in TX we have struggled to find a decent church and know that if we ever found somewhere to join that it would be a while before I would ever be able to teach again. We are looking at the possibility of moving back to MN because the opportunities for ministry and service are there and there are not many opportunities here. When I graduated from college in 1992 – I was told that I was too young, unmarried and had no practical experience. Now that I am 45 and graduated seminary at 41 – now I am too old, married and still have no practical experience for local church pastoral ministry in spite of over 20 years in the business world. I wonder if I will ever be in vocational ministry? Glad to know that I am not the only one in this position! Thanks for sharing your story.
I think that it may be helpful to note that there seem to be two different definitions of vocation (a word not in scripture, btw). being used here:
1. The more general term used to describe one’s primary employment.
2. The more theological definition used to describe the calling of ones life.
Given these two different frameworks, it makes perfect sense for one person to say “every Christian’s vocation is ministry,” while another person says, “I desire to be in vocational ministry, but I am not there now.”
Andy…good point.
I get… that from a man’s perspective, and from one that aspires to function as an Elder (Pastor), it could be very frustrating,… And more so, if the church is not mature enough to understand how the Holy Spirit encourages men to use their gifts and serve in the church.
During our teaching time last night, we touched on how these very definitions, as you have stated, can become a confusing issue for the members. When members only are led to understand that the church is confined/constrained at the point of hire or singular expression in leadership,….especially those aspiring to the function of an Elder (Pastor), it is not hard to see why a false definition can quickly become the norm for the congregation. The SBC seminaries should be more clear on this aspect of the Apostle Paul’s directives for the churches.
It is sad to hear things like “When I graduated from college in 1992 – I was told that I was too young, unmarried and had no practical experience. Now that I am 45 and graduated seminary at 41 – now I am too old, married and still have no practical experience for local church pastoral ministry in spite of over 20 years in the business world.” Unfortunately that type of sentiment and understanding about ministry is prevalent within many congregations,…. as if the Holy Spirit is shunned on purpose.
I am finding that many Pastors do not understand how the Holy Spirit’s gifting of each member is vitally important to the entire body. That is something that I would like to see the seminaries teach in a much more profound way.
Chris,
I agree with most of what you write here, with the clarification that I don’t believe EITHER of my two definitions of vocation is a “FALSE DEFINITION.” I believe both definitions are accepted today (and even found in dictionaries) and used in different ways by different people…hence some confusion when we don’t clarify out meanings.
BUT…I do agree that many may have a “false definition” of what a pastor/elder is supposed to be, everything ranging from, “preacher/maryer/burrier” for hire…to CEO, to the other extreme of someone we don’t compensate at all so that he will “learn humility.”
Also, in the sense of “Calling/Vocation”…I believe this can change over the course of one’s life. So in my case, right now I would say I am in “Vocational ministry.” That is, my employment and ministry are very tightly woven. When I meet with another man to read the bible and pray, I do so as a pastor. I don’t see how they can be separated. Sometime in the future, if I go into full-time custom furniture making (just a dream right now)…I would likely say my Occupational “Vocation/calling” is furniture making, while I still have a Christian “vocation/calling” to minister the Gospel to those around me. (So you can see right there, I have myself used vocation in 2 different ways…in the second example I have allowed for more nuance to describe 2 different callings.)
And of course, in both cases…I also have 2 other “vocations”: that of a Husband/father/son/brother, & Citizen.
(4 categories stolen from Luther).
Good clarifications… thx for the additional info, and I look forward to seeing the “Andy” line of furniture in the future. 🙂
btw… I was not judging your vocational definitions as false. But, was trying to communicate that false definitions can be trained into the mind of the congregation, thus making the definition seem normal.