For most of the last century, we have had an open door policy to the church. Specifically, we open the doors and people come in. We call it the “y’all come” method. For centuries, we have told people what time our services start, as assume at some point they will realize they need to be in church. We put things in the yellow pages, in the newspaper and on the internet and hope that some lost person will one day wake up and think “I should go to church”.
The problem is, this isn’t working as well as it use too. We see that in Europe, people don’t even think about church on Sunday. In the US, it use to be that kids stayed in church after high school. Now they drop out, and the age they are coming back is getting older and older. Use to be a few years of college, they’d be back. Then it was once they graduated college. Then it became when they got married and starting having kids. Now I am not sure that they are coming in at all. The reality of the matter is, opening the doors doesn’t quite cut it anymore. As the generations progress, they are thinking less and less about the church to be bale to help them or provide answers. They are just not turning to us for help.
That should provoke us to all question why. Why are they not turning to us for answers? Why are they not seeking the wisdom of the church? Why are they not looking to the Bible? I have a feeling if you ask them, they will say a couple things. First off, they may say something about the church being filled with hypocrites. My response to that is, so is the Democratic party. If they are honest, they will probably say something like “I just don’t think the church has anything relevant to my life”. There are lots of non-churched people out there who think all we do is condemn people and read from an ancient book that is full of rules and regulations that don’t really have any value to them. Lets face it, most of the media coverage of the church as of late hasn’t been glowing or flattering. We have Fred Phelps, some guy burning the Qur’an, and someone telling us the world was going to end. It hasn’t been a huge draw for those outside the church to come running to our open doors. We are not going to change the liberal media, so what is a church to do?
Maybe it’s time to change the strategy a little.
1. Not everything has to be AT the church. I will give you all a few minutes to compose yourself. You do realize that you don’t have the Ark of the Covenant in your building right? It’s not “God’s House”. That was the temple, and it’s gone now. You can worship anywhere you gather. Maybe it’s time to have some stuff off site. Have some Bible Studies at a coffee shop, or a community room. Have Back Yard Bible Clubs, do something in your local school (since we all know how pagan and evil the public schools are). Try a block party, a pool party, crawfish boil, catfish fry, bbq a pig. The point is, try something out there where the people are.
2. Not everything has to be led by the Pastor. Pastors are important, they train and equip the saints for the work of the church. That means the people in the church do the work of the church. Maybe your folks need to go out and teach Bible Studies in the community. Maybe it’s time to look at having some alternative sites for worship (multi-site works for a lot of churches). That may mean raising up leaders from within the church and giving them some responsibility and ministry. I have heard a pastor say “I can’t trust anyone else to do ministry, they may mess up and a visitor may see it”. The whole point of this post is that most of us aren’t getting a flood of visitors anymore. People are visiting less and less, so send people out more and more. That will mean that Pastors aren’t always center stage. It shouldn’t be about us anyway.
3. Not every event is a time for preaching. That is not to say that there isn’t a time and place for preaching, but somehow we have starting preaching everywhere. Don’t preach at a block party. Don’t preach at showers (pastor’s shouldn’t even be there). Equip your people to share one on one, to disciple and to do the work in their relationships. There are some great helps and resources out there (I wrote one myself, let me know if you are interested). Preach on Sunday Mornings, Sunday Evenings or Wednesday nights, whatever your schedule is, but give some opportunities for your people to do the sharing.
4. Think outside the box. The church isn’t real good at innovation. I have said it before, the only thing we have changed in the last 100 years is the music style, and that started a full out war. We are slow to adapt. The church is just starting to get on board with the internet, and social media has up and left us in the dust. We are still using projectors while people are looking at everything on their smart phones. We could re-vitalize the hymnal if we just offered it as an app.
5. Be Active in the Community. People want to belong, they want to connect and they are finding connections outside the church. Community is now multi-layered. There are communities in communities in communities. For example, in the city I live in, there are several institutions of higher education. Those institutions have departments, which are broken down even more. You’ll find a community of 5 or 6 inside a community of 15 to 20 in a community inside a community of 40 to 60 and so on. It’s not enough to just reach the first level of community, you need to get down to the 3rd, 4th or 5th levels. The only way to do that is encourage your people to get involved, meet people and build relationships. It’s more than attending a meeting, although that is a start. They need to get to know lost people and get connected. Christians need to be involved in the life of the community again, for too long we have created a Christian sub-culture and have removed ourselves. This is not the pattern of the 1st century church, this is not how Christianity began or how it spreads. It’s how we die and disappear.
This is not an exhaustive list, nor is it the 5 things you must do to save your church. This is just a glimpse of what we are going to have to discuss and take seriously if we don’t want to see the American Church become a relic like it has in other parts of the world. We are failing to meet people where they are, and show them how we are relevant to their lives. They don’t think there is anything in the Bible worth reading or anything in the church worth listening too. Perhaps that is because we have spent so much time talking that we have failed to listen. We have spent so much time dictating terms and conditions that we haven’t realized that no one is listening to us anymore.
If you are having success reaching your community, I would like to hear your thoughts. If you haven’t reached anyone in your community in years, I am curious as to what you are trying. Share your thoughts and incites and share what is or isn’t working.
GREAT POST!!!
I think another focus that needs to change is that of the disciple rather than the convert. I’ve read and heard many who will state they want to plant churches and see their community reached for Christ. However, the foundation for most of that is getting converts: sharing the Gospel, telling them about the local church, getting them on the Sunday school roll.
This scenario may have created a convert, maybe not; but it certainly did not create a disciple. We have to remember that Jesus knew people and met them where they were, got to know them by spending time with them; He didn’t do “drive-by” ministry with an alter call and then not come back.
We also have to remember that not all of His disciples remained with Him, many left (proving they were never really His disciples). If we make intentional efforts to disciple people the truthfulness or falsehood of their conversion will be confirmed. We CAN NOT preach everyone into the Kingdom, only those God invites through the Holy Spirit, not by means of our cleverly contrived sales-pitch… er.. um… evangelism strategy.
If we concentrate on making disciples (relationships are required) then conversions will happen.
Good point, Greg.
In international missions, workers have strategies to get into a community. Often, the strategies work, but things begin to stagnate. The reaon is that the strategy that opens doors does not touch lives. The strategy that touches lives does not lead to Christ. The strategy that leads to Christ does not produce discipleship. And so on.
You’ve hit this with your comments about producing converts vs raising disciples. Good job.
Christian ‘evangelism’ never was a ‘sales pitch’.
I don’t think that it can be, because of it’s sacred Origin.
To be correct: Christian ‘evangelism’ wasn’t always a ‘sales pitch’ but has become one under some methods; sacred origin or not.
The FAITH evangelism program is a perfect example of a sales pitch for a product:
1. You have a need and I can fill it in 5 letters spelled on my hand
2. Testimony of someone who has converted
3. Testimony of someone who loves Sunday School
4. Here is the way: F-A-I-T-H
5. Would you like to pray to receive Jesus now or if not, can we sign you up for our Sunday School and stay in touch
This is the same method used to sell all sorts of MLM products:
1. You have a need and we can fill it
2. Testimonies of those who have saved and those who have made money selling after using the products
3. Here is the savings plan; here is the money plan
4. Would you like to join or if not can we sign you up for further contact via e-mail
This was horribly misused at my former church. When I figured out what they were doing and why, I quit the program. There is one aspect o FAITH that is called the Opinoin poll. It is used as a first, non-threatening contact: what do you think aobut the church, what should they be doing for you or in the community, etc. It also closes with an invitation to join the Sunday School class. The church was banking on statistics that 30% of those on the SS list will attend, so if we sign up more people, statistically, more will come to church and tithe.
I KID YOU NOT THAT IS WHAT THE PASTOR BOASTED OF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE BEGINNERS CLASS!!!
I was appalled that they were actually counting on statistics to grow the church rather than the Holy Spirit. And yes, he did mention the tithe… they are rather fond of money and think it comes from people tithing rather than from God moving people to give.
Both are about making a sale, closing the deal. Neither are about making disciples through relationship for life-long transformation to the Glory of God.
If the sacredness of the Truth does not stand against the creation of cults, so it will not stand against misuse. The fact that it is wrong to do so does not mean it won’t be done.
Greg,
I dont’ dispute that you might have had a bad experience with FAITH — which I don’t use because I have an alternative I like better — but I think it is wrong to parody the entire program based upon your limited experience.
If one defines “sales pitch” in the worst possible light, then of course you can make it look as bad as you would like. It’s called a “straw man.”
However, if you define sales as offering a person an opportunity to acquire something useful and desirable, the man is no longer made of straw and it becomes harder to knock him down.
Presenting the gospel and “making a sale” have many similarities. I’ve had extensive opportunity in in both fields. Even Paul had a sales pitch, so to speak. Paul received, this formula, or pitch. He did not invent it.
That’s a classic sales presentation. Of course, it is more than a sales pitch because the “product” is eternal and spiritual rather than temporal and worldly, but it is the same principle of clarification.
One can abuse the process, but there is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, in my opinion.
Everyone uses some type of “sales pitch” to present the gospel, especially preachers on Sunday morning. If you have a better one that you are using than FAITH to bring hundreds in your community to faith in Christ, I’d certainly be open to hearing about it.
“Now brothers, I want to clarify for you the gospel.” (1Cor 15:1). Then notice verse three.
Franks, it’s not a straw man, it’s equivocation, and you don’t want to have that debate with Greg.
The last sentence was jumped out of sequence. I was looking at Paul’s presentation, when I said it was a classic sales presentation.
PS–I certainly do not want to demean the gospel by making it simply a “product to be hawked.” However, we do have to “present” it in order for it to be effective. I’d make more sense if I were smarter.
My point is that FAITH along with other “presentations” are revamped, copied, and co-opted sales pitches from the world of business. We don’t need any kind of “presentation” or format, we need the truth and the Holy Spirit.
The attempt to format the Gospel “presentation” in this manner is two-fold:
– 1) to make it simpler (which is silly because if we actually discipled people, there would be no need for a “presentation”)
– 2) to try and create more success – i.e. more converts
It is the height of arrogance to presume that my efforts create or limit the saving of souls. Not that my poor behavior as a believer won’t turn off people, but even that doesn’t mar the power of the Holy Spirit. I think this is what Paul learned from his experience @ the Areopagus and referred back to in I Cor 2:1-2. He may have relied more on his own ability (sales pitch if you will) to convey the Gospel in a philosophers context rather than relying on the Holy Spirit’s ability. I wouldn’t say this was the norm for Paul, but he probably got caught up in and bogged down by the nuances of philosophical conversation. He had a few converts, but left very quickly. In Corinth, he was told by the Spirit to stay for a year and one half.
Here is the bottom line: If I can learn a “better” way of presenting the Gospel so I can be more successful (win more people to Christ) then I quit and so should we all. We need to rely on the Holy Spirit to make the convert, not my eloquence in presenting the Gospel.
Barring a false gospel (which gives false hope), we can’t screw up telling others about Jesus: everyone is already on their way to Hell. A botched presentation doesn’t put them on the fast track or to the front of the line. People go to Hell for their sins, not for rejecting Jesus. So we don’t need to practice our delivery or format it so it is slicker and/or more palatable. It just needs to be the truth in love and let the Spirit do the work of converting.
F.A.I.T.H is the biggest crock of hooey I’ve ever seen. The fact that Lifeway CHARGED people for that and what they charged them is something that someone is going to have to answer for when they get to heaven. Totally agree that many “presentations” are just garbage and basically sales pitches.
However, when I share the gospel I use the method taught in The Way of the Master and I’m not sure I could say that all “presentations” are bad or having one is wrong for this reason–people can get sidetracked and forget where they are when they’re sharing the gospel or they can get nervous. Having some sort of “road map” so that you can remember “Ok, I’ve told them that we’re all sinners. Now I need to tell them that Christ was punished for our sins and then…” can be helpful, methinks.
However, I totally agree that even if we completely botch the presentation it does not inhibit the Holy Spirit’s abillity to convict of sin and draw someone to Christ.
I support FAITH and every Scriptural evangelism plan that comes along. I personally have used the Roman Road and Sinner’s Prayer for many years. It works. It worked on me when I got saved. It worked two weeks ago when I had the priviledge of leading a young man to the Lord.
Whether it’s FAITH, Evangelism Explosion, Friendship Evangelism, the Roman Road – learn the plan of salvation and use it often. The world needs to hear the Gospel.
http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2010/04/roman-road-of-salvation.html
David R. Brumbelow
Here’s my problem with FAITH–the survey. You start out “conducting” a survey and it’s a lie. I mean, nothing is done with those surveys. THe whole point is to get an opportunity to present the gospel–which presenting the gospel is good. Lying to get to that point–not so much.
I find myself in the unenviable position of agreeing with Joe. The ends do not justify the means, and anything that even hints of deception in evangelism must be discarded. We do not need to fool people into hearing the message of the Gospel. These so-called surveys are just that: deception. And don’t get me started on these tracts that look like money that cheapskate Christians leave as “tips” at restaurants.
I overheard some visitors to our church talking about witnessing to customers at a local department store. They said something like “as long as you have a cart with something in it, the owners can’t bother you”. This is not only deception but outright trespassing. The owners have every right to not allow you to pester their customers. Even I as a Christian would not allow this in any store I owned.
I used FAITH trying to witness to College students. Know what a college student says when you say “I can’t spell it on one faith, F.A.I.T.H.” They checked out. And who begins with “forgiveness” instead of sin? No one thinks they need forgiveness before they are convicted of sin. I haven’t seen the new and improved FAITH, it was several years ago I was involved, but I HATED the outline. I like the program out, send people out to build relationships with contacts. Ok, cool. I can spell it with one hand? Come on people.
I find myself in the unenviable position of agreeing with Joe.
Haa
Having been trained in EE back in my college days, I always figured that FAITH was a way to “SBCanitize” the EE program. I never was big on either one of them. I know God can use them, but God can use donkey’s too, so that isn’t saying much.
“”We have Fred Phelps, some guy burning the Qur’an, and someone telling us the world was going to end. It hasn’t been a huge draw for those outside the church to come running to our open doors.”
I wonder if we give Phelps, the guy burning the Qur’an, or Camping too much credit. For example, I’ve had numerous conversations with people, barely churched and unchurched, since May 21st. Camping did not even come up.
So, your first paragraph sums up the problem it seems to me: we just don’t, can’t, or won’t go and they aren’t incline to come to us. If we are going to wait until the fish jump in the boat (though there are rivers where this happens), we are going to continue to decline.
The problem is we just don’t know how to make converts (forget even thinking about making disciples). We can talk about, go to conventions about it, and blog about it–we just can’t (or won’t) do it.
I think that the first lesson Our Lord taught His Disciples about ‘evangelization’ was recorded in sacred Scripture,
in the Gospel of St. Luke 5:5
Christ asked the exhausted and frustrated fishermen to put out into the deeper water and cast their nets . . .
‘”Rabbi,” replied Peter,
“all night long we have worked hard and caught nothing;
but at your command I will let down the nets.” (Luke 5:5)
We see in this Gospel the TRUST placed in Our Lord, we see the hopeful OBEDIENCE, as they move the boat out into the deep, and there we see that it is AT HIS COMMAND that they put down the nets.
. . . Can’t forget that first instruction to ‘put out into the deep’.
Something there is about this instruction that contains meaning in it also, for the ‘fishers of men’.
Nope. Actually, put out deeper meant just what it said–put out the net in deeper water. You’ll also notice what Jesus DIDN’T tell the disciples. He didn’t tell them, there or in any other scripture, that people of other faiths could be saved without consciously trusting Him as their Savior. Therefore, since He didn’t say it and it’s nowhere taught in scripture, anyone who follows another faith, no matter how sincere, will suffer eternal punishment in hell.
huh? This whole conversation lost me.
Well, my reply was off topic. I have no idea what she was blathering about. I just took an opportunity to get a dig in on her belief that God will save people of other faiths even if they don’t personally, consciously trust Christ to save them.
Well….at he’s honest about it.
you know, I also think that the people in the church feel less and less like the Bible is relevant to their lives… or maybe they feel like God isn’t really who He says He is anymore. Christians aren’t living like “little Christs” so they have little desire to go outside the church and share with other people.
I think one answer might be found among the words of a five-thousand year-old Psalm:
“10 Create in me a clean heart, O God;
and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from Thy Presence;
and take not Thy Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore unto me the joy of Thy Salvation;
and uphold me with Thy free Spirit.
13 Then will I teach transgressors Thy ways;
and sinners shall be converted unto Thee ”
Psalm 51
Hi from across the pacific,
Dan, isn’t the root cause of people not wanting to come to church, that they are “dead in their trespasses and sins”, and that “none is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” and they can’t come to the Christ unless the Father draws them?
I would say that it the root reason why they do not come to God. But, I think Dan is saying that we have a “build it and they will come” mentality and, in times past in the US, that was enough. People moved around more after WWII and inquired as to the location of the local church (pick your denomination) when they got there. Many churches were in the middle of sub-divisions or in central locations of neighborhoods.
This isn’t so any more. America isn’t a nation of people who want to know where the local house of worship is and how far away… many are more interested in the local house of pancakes on Sunday morning.
We have to change our expectations: the people won’t come in just becasue we are open… not like they used to. Many or most are not beleivers or not raised in believing homes. Granted I’m getting in the area of American culture. But for the church, for us to continue to hope or wait on people to show up becasue we have convenient times, multiple services, our own basketball/soccer/etc leagues that are non-cursing/non-drinking… these aren’t affecting those outside the church.
We have to go mingle with them where they are, not expect them to come to us.
We have a church in our community (different denom) that is building a church in a swamp (even though people said it would be daft to build it in a swamp :)). They are spending boatloads of money to build in that location because they have “traffic studies” showing that it is one of the busiest streets in town and they are counting on this to help build their church from what I have been told.
It will sink into the swamp—
But by the fourth one, that one will stay up and be the strongest church in the land!!
I do applaud your Calvinistic overtones!
The root cause is they are pagan, but the issue isn’t that they aren’t coming. That is the catalysis for the post, the issue is what are we doing about it. Don’t miss the forest looking at the trees.
And you are not a Calvinist. . . well no one is perfect.
“We have Fred Phelps, some guy burning the Qur’an, and someone telling us the world was going to end. It hasn’t been a huge draw for those outside the church to come running to our open doors.”
Yup, and the world is talking about them. They’re not talking about churches that much, and certainly not about believers simply living happily as believers.
Gee.
At a deacon meeting a couple months ago, I led a devotional and asked several of the deacons about their wives, how they met them, what’s your job like, how’d you find it, tell me about your kids, etc. After a few minutes of that, I asked them what outline they had to memorize in order to tell me those things. Or how many times did they have to go out with a “trainer” and knock on somebody’s door, to learn how to share that information with me.
They made the connection with why we had to memorize, practice, etc, to tell somebody about our faith. Or even simply live as believers, happy to be so, and as open about it as we are in the wearing of a wedding ring to let people know we’re married.
Get your members to do THAT, and you won’t have to exert energy and spend money inviting people to come to your building. And the members will be able to do the work of service for which pastors are supposed to be training them.
That’s a great way of thinking about it. I am going to steal that example for future teaching and ministry.
Bob,
That is one of the stories that makes someone stand up and listen. But, on further analysis, the story does not tell the whole story.
When you asked them about their experience, they could relate that as “their experience.” However, they are just telling “their” story.
Our testimony is only part of the process, there is also the story about Jesus Christ, and facts that are essential to a person making a eternity changing decision.
If all evangelism required was “telling my story,” then your anecdote would be the final say on the matter. However, there is more to evangelism than just “my story.” There is also His Story, and history, to be considered, as well as the often times required apologetics to remove obstacles from someone hearing the Story.
So, while I first was impressed with your anecdote, upon further review, I think it is too simplistic to communicate the whole of the matter.
Frank,
If we know Christ as Savior, then our story intersects with His story as well. We should certainly tell both stories when we share, but I can’t help but think that if our whole life is consumed with living for Christ, then our stories that we tell will be consumed with His truth as well and that would certainly include our own testimony.
When we over complicate that simple fact then we end up paralyzing people from saying anything because they are afraid that they won’t be able to answer all the possible questions that will be asked. That is one of my biggest problems with the various “canned” Gospel-sharing programs. People treat them like they are studying for a final exam and get flustered (I have been there myself). People don’t usually forget their own story of coming to know Christ (if they do we have bigger problems) and that testimony tends to be far more powerful in today’s culture and climate particularly.
Jeff, I have been personally discipling people one on one for over thirty years. Your post does not match my experience. I’ve known some people that were deeply in love with Jesus Christ and had a wonderful story to tell. But, they never seemed to be able to get that story out.
When given just a few tools and suggestions on how to tell their story, they became tremendous soul-winners–in one town our church alone led 10 per cent of the population to a first time decision for Christ over an eight year period.
I think you are mistaken in implying that the problem is always and only: “not being fully consumed by Christ.”
There is much more to sharing the gospel than simply telling a story. There is also the matter that the Devil doesn’t want the story to get out. There are similarities to marriage, but there are dissimilarities also.
I’m all for personal testimony. That’s an important spoke in the wheel of a gospel presentation–but it is not the only spoke and certainly not the hub.
Why is it for example we have Paul’s testimony recorded for us twice in the Book of Acts? Could it be that his testimony is recorded twice (almost exactly) to give us a pattern (pitch) for sharing our own? My feeling is that the Bible gives us not only the content of a presentation, but also the process (or many processes) that are affective in sharing it.
Someone in another post mentioned the problem is that a “pitch” complicates the gospel. This, in my opinion, shows the person does not understand sales at all. The whole reason salespeople are taught a “pitch” is to clarify and simplify the presentation for the purpose of making it more effectual.
I didn’t bring up the idea of a “sales pitch,” but I responded because I spent many years in sales, including door-to-door. Those demeaning sales and or using a planned presentation do not demonstrate they understand sales at all.
My personal goal is to share the gospel with at least one person every day. As a pastor, that is very difficult and so when the opportunity arises, I want to make sure I can utilize whatever time I am given to its maximum effect. That is why I’ve written out my testimony and why I practice it on a regular basis.
It is also why I can give it in under a minute if need be.
I’m just saying that discipleship should include helping others become more effective in presenting the gospel of Jesus Christ. I don’t endorse ever method, but I don’t condemn them in general either.
Remember, the topic of this post was that we are not “getting the gospel out.” I’m saying Amen to that and let’s try to do better. Arguing about evangelism is not the same as doing it.
I didn’t realize that I implied that and I would absolutely agree with your statement. That said, I am still chuckling a bit. You said that my post doesn’t match your experience, but then you proceeded to describe exactly what I was trying to say, so I don’t know where the disconnect is. The example you gave is this:
This is exactly the kind of thing I am talking about. Equipping people to share their own testimony, their story of salvation in Christ. I completely agree with you.
I should probably touch on this since I have been part of that crowd. It isn’t a problem of understanding sales from my perspective.
I think the “sales tactics” have been particularly effective at getting the gospel message out. The result has unfortunately been a plethora of inoculated “Christians” who are convinced they are saved because they made a decision one time but whose lives remain completely unchanged. That has been my observation with most of these programs like EE or FAITH.
Just out of curiosity, how much of that 10 percent of the population who made a first time decision that you mentioned above is still walking with the Lord or in church even. If it is more than 10 percent of them, you are beating the odds from what I have read and seen in the past. And if you are beating the odds, then praise God. We can learn from your example.
Jeff,
If only one is still walking with the Lord, is that insignificant? Maybe to you, but I’m sure it isn’t to him.
Another way to look at it, Jeff, might be to ask: is 100% success in reaching nobody better than reaching 100’s with some who fall away? I’ll take my chances with the 100’s.
Also, have you considered that even the Lord did not keep all his disciples–“many departed and followed Him no more.”
Over the last 35 years of ministry, I’ve heard your argument many, many times–the one about “inoculating” people by trying to share the gospel with them in an imperfect way. All I can say is, nobody who ever made that argument presented a better way that they were doing evangelism.
I readily admit I am not “expert” in anything. I struggle just to get myself going in the morning. I’m sure my “gospel pitch” is woefully deficient, and I’m pretty sure my relationship with God could be greatly improved.
I can wait until I find the perfect way to share the gospel and until I am a perfect example of a disciple, and the result is: I never share my faith with anyone.
Seems too many Christians have followed that path already. Goodness knows, that would be better than agonizing over lost souls who are dying and going to hell and cannot wait until I reach perfection.
The post was about “getting the gospel out.” I don’t assume the problem is with the “pitch.” That’s just my opinion and it’s barely worth what you paid for it.
Frank-
That’s the problem. The church has complicated the Gospel. We make it about more than it is. Paul’s presentation in 1 Corinthians 15 is simple. Christ, died and Christ was risen. It’s humanity’s fault Jesus had to die and it’s by God’s power, mercy, and grace that His resurrection is applied to us. What’s complicated about that?
You are not going to debate someone into the Kingdom. God is calling them or not. No fancy words or outlines or “apologetics” of yours, mine, or others are going to move someone from skepticism to belief. God is the author and finisher.
Bob’s example is perfect. These men were telling their stories not some forced canned presentation. The disciples were not presenting a canned presentation. They were not “witnessing” (a cheap term that is not in scripture) they were “witnesses” people telling what they had seen, heard, and experienced. We need to get back to reality when it comes to talking about Jesus. We need more people who can talk about the reality of what Jesus has done for them, not someone who sounds like a cheap Amway knockoff.
“”Bob’s example is perfect.””
Well, that settles it. One can hardly improve upon perfection.
So, may God bring many to know the Lord as you use this perfect situation. I’ll be excited to hear how that is working in your individual life.
Keep me posted.
Thanks for engaging the whole comment Frank. :/
Dialogue…FAIL.
Frank- Actually, i think you missed Bob’s point.
It’s not about each one’s personal story, it’s about living a life so close to Jesus that others know your faith just as sure as they know your married when you wear a ring on the 3rd finger of your left hand. The ring signifies the relationship. The knowledge of the wife & kids,etc are a result of relationship, not as a result of a memorized list of facts.
The application I think he was making is that if our relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit, the Word, and other believers is as thoroughly nurtured as that with our wives, then our lives would reflect Jesus and sharing about him would be just as natural as flashing our wedding rings and showing pics of our kids on our phones (or wallets for you tech challenged people); no outlines or plans required.
I think Bob has hit the nail on the head and sunk it in one stroke.
Greg,
That’s exactly what I thought Bob meant. If you are correct in asserting that all one needs is to “see one’s life” in order to be led into a relationship with Christ, then all the Scriptures in the Bible pertaining to “giving a witness” are unnecessary.
I don’t disagree with Bob’s point, I just don’t think it goes far enough, as I said. The Bible is explicit and clear: “Faith comes by hearing the word of God.” The person may have a great relationship with God or a poor one. That relationship may enhance his witness or deter from it. However, the power of the presentation of the gospel lies in the gospel truth, not the messenger.
So, I think you may be missing my point.
I agree… I think we are emphasizing different sides of the same coin. We should be so familiar, comfortable, and knowledgeable of/about/with Jesus and the Bible (as we are with our spouses & family) that it is as plain as the ring on our fingers and rolls off the tongue as easily as me telling you about my kids. But many struggle with the simplest truths of the Bible and sometimes rely to heavily on some outline. Just as you can’t know Shakespeare (or Chaucer if you like middle-english) through Cliff’s notes, one cannot know Jesus through an outline.
We should be sharing the Word since “Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.” It shouldn’t require an outline about the Gospel, but a relationship with the One who is the Gospel.
I will grant that the Church is not perfect and we all have much we can improve on as individuals, individual churches, and denominational structures. It is right to ask what impact we have by the way we do things. Paul tailored his lifestyle and method of teaching to different groups of people so he could get the message of the gospel out to more people.
However, I think it must be said that even if we did everything perfectly, many will still not come. Would it have been fair to ask Jesus what He could improve on since many people didn’t follow Him. In fact, He sometimes thinned the crowds – intentionally.
Here’s my point: we shouldn’t judge success by the number of people who follow Christ because of our work. We should try to make our presentation of the gospel fluid enough so that it flows into the sociological cracks of the people to whom we minister. But we judge our success on how faithful we were to proclaim the gospel accurately. We are imperfect vessels pouring a perfect message into imperfect vessels. We have no say on whether or not the Holy Spirit has unscrewed their lids. But we can still work on our aim so we don’t needlessly spill any while trying to hit an open vessel.
“”However, I think it must be said that even if we did everything perfectly, many will still not come.””
Absolutely, Jim. We must always leave the results to God. Do our best, be strategic, adjust often, and trust the Holy Spirit–but, by all means “go.”
So does anyone care to interact with the actual post about how to go out and get people where they are? How about building relationships? How about the questions I asked in the post?
Hi DAN,
This is the strangest paradox for me:
the most powerful ‘witness’ to Christ in recent times,
a witness that gained the attention of the entire world was simply this:
an insular Christian community’s daughters were slain by a gunman, who then committed suicide. Within a day’s time, a representative of that community came to the home of the gunman’s wife and children and offered their full forgiveness to that gunman. This Christian community came to the funeral of the shooter and stood by his wife to support her, they brought her food, and offered her their friendship, encouraging her to remain in their neighborhood near them.
The world was given a glimpse into a Christianity lived, not just ‘preached’ . . . maybe the ‘sermon’ was in the way the Amish forgave first, then grieved their daughter’s deaths . . . or maybe the ‘sermon’ was the way their community embraced the family of the murderer, surrounding them with food and support ?
The world couldn’t understand.
All I know is that there was something about the first Christians that the world ‘couldn’t understand’, something so shining that it drew people to Christ.
I think the message of ‘evangelization’ can’t just be ‘preached’, it has to be lived so vibrantly so that it’s light can be seen from afar. The Amish people, Lottie Moon’s gift of her food to her starving Chinese, Betsie ten Boom in the concentration camp of Ravensbruck saying ‘no hate’ to her sister, Damien on Molokai who came alone to care for the dying lepers and became one with them, to pray ‘We lepers’ . . .
what calls men to Christ? Surely it is not the ‘spirit’ of Westboro, or of the man burning qurans ? No, there is a darkness in those things.
I think Christian people know what the real answers are, Dan.
They just need ‘the Spirit’ to give them the courage to live in Christ’s light vibrantly, then the light will draw people to Him, the way that the star drew the wise men to Bethlehem long ago.
Dan,
I thought I shared what I was trying, but it got shot down as nothing more than a “sales pitch.”
I recently took a church that had hit a plateau. Nobody had been baptized for many years. We have slowly turned that around. I’m sure when I share how we have gone from zero baptisms to about 20, I will probably be called a heretic–or worse, be associated with Joe.
But, here’s what I did: I added just a little bit of flare to a very traditional worship service (I began playing the bass and bought my wife an electric piano). Admittedly, that isn’t much of a change but it was noticed by some. Then, 2) I scheduled an “old-fashioned revival.” They had not had a revival service in years. I used a full time evangelist with over 60 years of experience. 3) I got people to bring their friends. And they did. And they still do.
I also began to give an invitation again at the end of every service. Now, admittedly, this isn’t the preferred, or even the best approach, but it has started us moving in the right direction. We now have nearly as many young families as Seniors in our church. This was a huge turn-around.
Now, I am taking aside men I have chosen after much prayer and I spend six months meeting with them at least once per week to share my vision and to teach the the fundamentals of discipleship.
The ship is starting to turn.
The key is: do something! Don’t wait for someone to publish the perfect strategy or to have a perfect group of people to work with. Start somewhere to get some momentum. And, stick with it. The tide will turn and God will do amazing things.
Preach to get people looking up and moving out.
Not a very profound strategy, but combined with heart-wrenching prayer, I believe God is using it thus far.
For the record, I never said what you do is a sales pitch, I said FAITH is built upon a business world sales pitch. I know this because when I tried changing careers to get into sales instead of installing DSL & T1 lines, the marketing plan I had to memorize sounded exactly like FAITH: You have a need, I have solution, testimony of one who has saved by using product, testimonies of those who’ve made money marketing the product, etc.
I wasn’t successful at all because of two reasons:1) since it was so familiar, it felt like I should be doing evangelism rather than selling a product; 2) I never quit my first job, so I don’t think I was “hungry” enough to get more contacts. At the time I was serving as a worship pastor and my only “hot market” contacts were my friends @ church… it was a conflict of interest I could not over-come.
My problem is with the “here is the next program/outline” mentality because “it is sure to get more converts.” that mentality relies on my efforts and my memorization and my oratory skills. As an example, I had a seminary professor no less practically berate a student who was sharing about an evangelism experience of his, for not winning him to Jesus. The student was sharing from John Ch 1 (verse by verse) about Jesus. The kid he was speaking to had to go before he could finish, but did agree to speak with him again. The professor using fishing terminology said, “you let that one get away… you didn’t set the hook” as if to imply this seminary student had some power to “catch” anyone.
It is this mentality, either embodied in or as a result of these multiple formats/pitches, that is my problem. You are not part of the problem as I see it: you share the Word. Without the Word, there can be no Faith. The church I was at did not use FAITH to reach the lost (some did, but from the top down) they used it to pack the pews for the sake of “growth.” Growth was the end, not God’s Glory.
Greg,
Did you ever stop to think that FAITH is like a sales pitch but sales is like evangelism?
Once when I was starting a new church, the only job I could get was selling cars. In the first month I outsold all of the other 10 salespeople. I did that consistently for the next six months until they made me the sales manager.
They all knew I was a preacher and one person asked: “Do you preach like you sell cars?” I said, “No, I sell cars like I preach.” I believe people need what I have and I do the best to show them how to get it. In the end, they leave better than they arrived, in a brand new shiny car.
To me: that’s the issue. We must do our best to help people meet the deep spiritual need in their life. We have what they need–the way to Jesus–and we should do anything and everything to help them get Him. In the end, they leave better than they came, with a brand new eternal life.
My entire reason for going to work was to sell cars. My entire reason for getting up each morning is to win souls. It’s all about focus and passion whether you’re selling cars or sharing Jesus.
Frank, if anyone thinks you’re a heretic, they are out of their mind. Good for you and the health of the Lord’s church, my brother!
Well, according to all of the financial and economic news letters I receive, the US is about to collapse. I meant, talk about, gloom and doom, my news sources are beginning to sound like a dirge. Now I would like to address thinking outside the box, calvinism, and the power to adapt, adjust, change or, in short, be flexible and creative. Gentlemen and Ladies, note your theology. Do you know how it works? Do you know how it enables a believer to become balanced, flexible, creative, and magnetic? Note that the doctrines seem to be two sided and apparently contradictory, e.g., salvation as involving Divine Sovereignty and Human Responsibility, God as being Trinity and Unity, Jesus as being God and man, Worship as being formal and informal, inspiration of scripture as involving human and divine elements, the Church as both local, visible, and congregational and universal, spiritual, and invisibile. I once had a list of some 20-30 truths that are meant to be accepted, promoted, promulgated as true, doctrines to be believed, teachings that will enable believers to become and be balanced, flexible, creative, and magnetic. They do this by being apparently contradictory, seemingly irreconciliable, creating a tension in the mind of the person who holds both, a desirable tesion, one that enables to the believer to become and be balanced, flexible, creative, and magntic.
There was a period in which such beliefs flowered and revealed their power to transform believers and affect society for the good. That was from 1740-1820, involving the First and Second Great Awakenings, the launching of the Great Century of Missions, the establishing of religious liberty, and more, much more.
Note how the tension produced in the mind by the apparently contradictory truths, a desirable tension, a creative dissonance which helps one to respond to real life and times in a manner approriate without feeling like he or she has compromised away his or her principles. As an illustration you might want to study John Leland and John Gano, men who experienced the Great Awakenings and did so many things that contributed both to the life of this nation and to the ongoing cause of Christ therein. There is more I could say, but suffice it for now that the time for the Third Great Awakening is fast approaching, and the darkness of the hour is a herald of its coming (weeping for a night, but joy cometh in the morning). Let us to our knees to petition God for such a visitation, expecting to take the whole earth and every soul on it for a 1000 generations. Read Jonathan Edwards’ Humble Attempt which inspired William Carey, etc. O yes, read the Death of Death in the Death of Christ by John Owen, the source for much of Andrew Fuller’s Gospel Worthy of All Acceptation, and note that Owen speaks of the infinite value of Christ’s Atonement as being enough for the souls of a 1000 worlds (not bad for the fellow blamed for Limited Atonement by some) (and why not a 1000, 1000 worlds, so expect to win a 1,000,000 worlds of souls to Christ in order to enjoy God’s sense of humor that the number of the redeemed in Heaven will be a number that no human could count though he or she were to count for all eternity?).(cf. Rev.7:9)
I am outside the US, but I’ll do what I can to interact with your post.
We start with the knowledge that our people have no place or slot in their weekly schedule for church. Even though the country is nominally Catholic (or perhaps because it is nominally Catholic), religion does not truly influence lives for Him. This means “Come to church!” is a nearly useless phrase. We still have a place to meet on Sunday morning, but that is because our Christians have time to meet and want to meet. Personally, I don’t care about time and day, but we have ended up meeting on Sunday mornings.
The second assumption we make is that our people do not know the Bible. Most of our people are functionally illiterate, so we understand they will not have access to the Gospel at home.
Third, we understand that religion for most locals is something old women do. Relevance, a horribly self-conscious concept, is lacking.
Our approach, after many failures, is to put selected portions of the Bible on DVDs, along with short lessons. Each DVD is topically arranged, and topics are chosen based on felt needs (family, sex, etc). These DVDs have been distributed far and wide through our area, and have moved towards more difficult topics like sin and forgiveness. No one watches these DVDs at church, nor at any sort of official gathering.
The results thus far: some salvations, some baptisms, and a greater awareness that God and humanity have a connection point of some kind. The community as a whole is slowly becoming aware that there is some sort of…thing that requires their attention. Maybe.
I don’t know if this addresses your questions. Does it?
Dan – to answer your question “what is the church to do?” I think we need to do first what you suggest as number 5; we need to participate in the community. Here were I live, Adult softball leagues are HUGE. Most people I know won’t participate because they are “drinking” leagues (beer is allowed in coolers, just don’t leave a mess). I think one of the churches here petitioned the city to create a tea-totteler league… it lasted one season.
There is such an un-Biblical entrenched belief in the local SBC churches that all alcohol is “EVIL” and as such we cannot be near it EVER. Just because the opposing teams get better as they consume more and beat us soundly the longer the game goes does not mean we can’t participate. If we don’t meet them there, what makes us think they will come to our Upwards Softball?
“Hollywood is evil.” easy to say… even easier to prove in so far as the content of most movies. But if we don’t encourage our youth and/or adults who have dramatic talents to engage the culture inn TV/movies who will? Are we really naive enough to think boycotting the industry or a theme park will make them stop? That is the world’s tactic, to try and hurt their income stream. The Biblical method would be to know when Gay Pride day is at Disneyland/World and go there intentionally to love on people as you meet them, share when you get opportunity. But don’t go with signs and flyers and t-shirts deriding the lifestyle; that is the classic example of “i’m-a-jerk” evangelism, which I don’t think Jesus or Paul ever modeled for us.