I believe that the 2020 presidential election season has the potential to be one of the final nails in the coffin of the SBC. If we continue on our current course we may well see this as the point at which the die was cast and our fate was sealed. (Let me see if I can work another cliche or two in there).
I hope the reader doesn’t misunderstand my use of the concept of Luther’s 95 theses. I realize, first of all, that my political meanderings do not compare in any way to the Reformation inducing insights of Dr. Luther. I was gathering a list of insights about politics and thought of his long list. I also realize that many today question whether he actually nailed them to the door in Wittenburg. I am nailing these here virtually, so it is more similar perhaps, in that sense.
I am currently up to about 28 theses, but fearing the dreaded TL;DR, I thought I’d make this a series of at least 3 posts. Here are theses 1-10. There is little actual order here – more in these first few than in subsequent posts.
1. The intersection of biblical morality and politics is always a minefield and it is usually biblical morality that suffers in the political realm.
A controversial book by Ed Dobson and Cal Thomas, “Blinded by Might,” made this point. Politics is about gaining and maintaining power, generally by whatever means necessary. Christianity is about proclaiming gospel truth, regardless of the consequences. When Christians enter the political realm we are often called on to compromise our faith and the truth we believe in the pursuit of power. The compromise necessary to win in politics is anathema to gospel truth.
Christians and the church, historically, have been more likely to mold to the political way than politics has been to bend to the way of Christ. It is a minefield and we must always walk carefully, with eyes wide open, when we wander into the political world.
2. In the SBC, we botched the 2016 election season badly, and if we do not do better in 2020, it may fracture us permanently.
Remember when we were arguing over whether Marco Rubio or Ted Cruz should be the nominee? We had some good arguments then, but the field didn’t narrow and the 35% Donald Trump continued to receive became a plurality that eventually made him the presumptive nominee. We were left with a problem. There were a few Trump enthusiasts, even during the primaries, but they were rare among the committed evangelicals. There was also a significant number of us so offended by Trump’s belligerence, immorality, and crass verbiage that we declared ourselves “NeverTrumpers.” A significant number of people became “TIBTHers” (a phrase I just coined). “Trump is better than Hillary.” I actually believe that – the idea of a Hillary Clinton presidency was horrific in my mind, but I still could not get past my convictions that Trump was unfit for office.
I was pretty vocal. As I look back on 2016, I stand by the things I said in my posts here and elsewhere. However, in conversations, in comments, when emotions rose in engagements, I said things more harshly than I should have (and at times, I think things I said were interpreted wrongly).
We, as a convention, did not handle the 2016 election well. Trump partisans treated NeverTrumpers like liberal antichrists. NeverTrumpers treated Trump voters as gospel-compromisers and we often failed to distinguish carefully the TIBTHers from the true Trumpers (Jeffress, Falwell, Graham, etc). Rifts formed in the SBC that still haven’t healed. The recent formation of the so-called Conservative Baptist Network is clearly focused largely on opposing those Baptists who do not give full support to Trump and the GOP.
We simply have to do better in the 2020 election at showing respect for one another in spite of political differences, at realizing that Christian brothers and sisters can be faithful to Christ and to the word of God and have significant differences on political issues, that proclaiming Christ and the gospel is more important than promoting political parties or candidates, and that assigning motives and assuming the worst about political opponents are not godly responses.
3. Voting is a matter of Christian liberty and that liberty must be respected.
I believe it is reasonable for me to state my views and try to convince you that yours are wrong, but in the end, I have to respect your right to vote your convictions and you should respect my right to vote mine.
Voting is a matter of taking a wide range of issues – moral, economic, military, educational, etc – and making a decision about a candidate. Since I watched Francis Schaeffer’s series, “Whatever Happened to the Human Race” during my seminary years, I’ve eliminated any candidate who believed that abortion was acceptable. I seek a pro-life candidate whose views most closely align with mine. That’s how I do it, but not all Christians use the same rubric. I cannot impose my voting system on anyone else.
That is not to say we can vote as we please. Romans 14 says that each of us has a Lord who died to save us and we give account to him. I do not have to account to you for my voting choices and you do not have to account to me.
4. Judging and condemning others for their votes is sinful.
I have no right to judge someone who votes for Donald Trump. You have no right to judge someone who refuses to vote for Donald Trump. Judging Christians based on party affiliation is not right.
Of course, we can examine the actions, attitudes, and words of people and identify false teachings, hypocrisy, and subversion of the gospel to politics. We can examine fruit and test sound doctrine. But we must be careful about passing judgment, questioning Christian commitment, and condemning others because their votes differ from ours.
We would like the political realm to painted in black and white but its hews are gray.
5. Abortion is a key moral issue.
The idea that it is okay to enter a mother’s womb and kill the baby inside it is morally repugnant. As best I know, I’ve never voted for a candidate who supported abortion. In Cedar Rapids, my congressman was a “pro-choice” Republican. He got elected and reelected without my vote. I do not care about his party – I will not vote for anyone who thinks killing a baby in its mother’s womb is morally acceptable.
6. Abortion is not the only moral issue.
This is where White evangelicals and Black evangelicals (and other minorities) often diverge. To many in the White evangelical world, abortion is pretty much the only moral issue that matters. Even the anti-social justice crowd is willing to take strong stands against abortion. Racism is a real issue in America that has real effects on millions of people. Abuse in whatever form – verbal, physical, and sexual – is a real issue that has devastated real lives. Abortion is a great evil but it is not the only evil in America.
I have refused to vote for my current congressman even though he is strongly pro-life. He has made racist, or racially insensitive, statements and has horrified me with some of his positions. There are other issues beyond abortion. I wouldn’t vote for Jim Leach because of his abortion stance and won’t vote for Steve King for a number of reasons.
7. We should not be surprised that white evangelicals and minorities weight certain issues differently. (This also extends to abuse victims, etc,)
In my circles, it is abortion, abortion, abortion! Minority Christians, who love Jesus and honor God’s word, give a much higher value to racism in their voting calculations (duh?).
Here’s how it might go. A white evangelical looks at the GOP platform and sees its pro-life language, sees that Trump’s SCOTUS appointments were apparently pro-life, and his calculations end there, because abortion is the only moral issue that matters. He (or she) simply cannot understand how others give an equal or near-equal weight to racism or abuse when babies are being killed! A Black evangelical pastor may also be passionately opposed to abortion but sees it as one of several issues. He has been pulled over for DWB several times in his life, pastors people who have been arrested and even convicted unjustly, and has firsthand experience with police brutality. These issues drive him to look beyond just the abortion issue. A victim of sexual abuse may look at Trump’s treatment of women (c’mon, Trumpers, even you have to admit that is NOT his strong point!) and includes that in the calculation.
In other words, people with different life-experiences make different choices based on their different experiences.
It is understandable that with their life experiences, abortion is not the only issue certain minority communities factor into their voting. One has to wonder why some of us are so passionate about making it the only justice issue that we should consider.
8. If the church wants to broaden its racial reach it needs to soften its partisan passion.
Black Evangelicals and other minorities are not offended by pro-life stands or by upholding the biblical family (one man/one woman). They will amen those stands. When we don our MAGA hats and start making support of the GOP and Trump an article of faith, they recoil. It is GOP partisanship on our part (and, to be fair, Democratic partisanship on the part of some minorities) that creates division among biblical Christians.
You will almost never hear me preach about political issues. I preach expositionally and I address issues such as abortion, racism, abuse, and other issues as they fit the text. I did not preach against Clinton or Obama, I didn’t preach for Reagan or either Bush – and I do not preach anti-Trump messages. The pulpit is for God’s word, not partisan politics. The more we push parties and political personalities to the fore, the more divided we will be.
9. The more we make the SBC about gospel issues, the better off we will be. The more we push politics, the more divided we will be.
We need to be about preaching Christ crucified and taking the Gospel to the world. Yes, there are moral and political issues we cannot avoid. These issues need to be addressed. But the more we follow certain voices and make GOP loyalty and Trumpism a point of fellowship, the more divided we will be, the whiter we will be, the closer to future oblivion we will be.
Here is a fact, friends. In 30 years or so, the USA will be majority-minority. There will be more of them than of us (sorry – I stated that offensively on purpose). If we do not reach out to minorities, if we do not sacrifice our culture for the gospel, if we push GOP politics over gospel unity, we will regret it. I’ll be pushing up daisies by then, but you young whippersnappers will see the SBC become a small insignificant denomination.
10. Sound biblical teaching, gospel passion, and a commitment to Christ’s Body is our fix here.
I am amazed at times when I see memes being forwarded by Christians on Facebook, memes that assert totally unbiblical things as biblical. The basic biblical and theological ignorance in many churches today is stunning and is a real issue.
We need churches that preach God’s word carefully so that when people see politicians and people promoting politicians who twist God’s word they realize they are being deceived. We need people who are so committed to the gospel that they care more about the advance of Christ’s kingdom than the victory or defeat of a candidate in November. We need people who love Christ and the Body of Christ enough to “bear with one another in love” and accept the lordship of Christ over others without trying to assert their own.
We can have an interest and concern about politics, but our churches and our denomination need to be passionate about the things of Christ, not about politics. When we conflate and confuse the two, the church suffers.
What happened toe old time Baptists that Both God and Country was important? You can’t have a country without God. There needs to be a dual relationship, because this nation began with Christians at the helm. Something got skewed along the way. A misinterpretation of a wall of separation?
a. Do you really want to hold up old-timey Baptists as the authority? Old-time Baptists were wrong about a lot of things – race, legalism,etc.. Old-time Baptists are not the authority on ANYTHING. The word of God is. So, the “old-time” argument doesn’t cut any weight with me.
b. Not sure you read my article if you think I am saying that country doesn’t matter. I didn’t say that. You should actually read what I wrote. One of the biggest issues in all of this is reading what YOU THINK I wrote not what I actually said.
Try again. Not sure it does much good to discuss with someone who misrepresents what I said.
c. I said nothing about the wall of separation and have no idea what you are saying.
i would encourage you to read my article and we can discuss what I wrote.
Dave,
I read what you wrote. My comment was not at the article as an opponent, but as GP (General Purpose) for others, cuz I do indeed see a LOT of anti-government folks on this blog. I see many people here that have a hatred to nationalism, as if it’s a boogie man. A fireman, works for the city, and is considered local government. He’s the bad guy. It’s only an example, not to be taken literally. But we got some government haters here. Seriously.
When we vote, it should be about campaign issues.
I heard a Christian comedian once, who said, “I don’t care what your beliefs are…if you can make my toilet drain, you are hired, Krishna!”
Denominations interpretations of Legalism, race, etc., is not what I was talking about. Every denomination has something wrong within their bounds. All of them. Hence, denominations.
Anyway, I wasn’t looking for a rebuttle. My apologies.
I believe Luther said he would rather be governed by a competent Turk (Muslim) than a bumbling brother in Christ.
The quote attributed to him but not found in any of his actual writings is:
“I would rather be ruled by a just Turk than by an unjust Christian.”
Of course. IF he said this, he was, I would think, referring to a “Christian” Papal state, so the context of the sentiment is not quite apples to apples to our context.
What happens when we get neither? 😉
Just to be slightly argumentative…your dual alignment comment needs a bit more definition. Scripture is clear that citizenship of our nation must always be in submission to citizenship of the kingdom of God. They are most definitely not equal.
I’m not saying that is your point, but I hear it all the time from civic religious Christians. They parrot the Deist quotes from Revolutionary times (no Romans 13 for those folks, lol) and give that equal footing to Holy Scripture.
Suggestion: Trump-Pence Administration is to re-opening America, the jobs, the churches and schools in August 2020, and nationwide Christians are to vote Trump-Pence Administration in November 2020. Please pray together for the current corona-virus pandemic, economy, education, and religious issues. God blesses America and Christianity. Thank you.
???
“Trump-Pence Administration is to re-opening America, the jobs, the churches and schools in August 2020,”
I hope it is before then.
“Christians are to vote Trump-Pence Administration in November 2020”
Not this Christian.
“Please pray together for the current corona-virus pandemic, economy, education, and religious issues.”
Sure
Thanks for this Dave, I think you are on the right track but you are not going far enough. You said, ‘We can have an interest and concern about politics’. I think you can not. When we look to Israel in the OT we see some really strong language in Ezekiel 23. God said that Israel was ‘committing adultery’ when they looked to Egypt and Assyria. But, they were aligned with Egypt for centuries. In Egyptian records Israel was considered part of their kingdom. Why shouldn’t they ask for help? Because it was adultery- looking to the Egyptian state to protect Israel instead of God. The same can be said for the American Church. They are looking to the Government to be their savior (highly ironic for confessed Republicans by the way). If the issue is abortion, racism, or any other injustice we need to look to the Lord. We vote because we are members of a society that ask for our vote. But, our loyalty and our hope must be in Christ alone and it is him alone that we must proclaim.
When we align ourselves with one party and declare ourselves members of it we declare the other side the ‘enemy’. I have seen Evangelical leaders referring to any who oppose their party as the ‘enemy’. Pro choice, homosexual promoting, liberals are not our enemy. They are a deceived, oppressed people who need the love and freedom of Jesus Christ. As long as we fail to demonstrate our love for them we fail to be the people of God. Here in Middle Earth I proclaim Christ and I don’t look to the utterly godless government for any good. I pray for the peace of my country of residence and I pray for it’s leaders but I don’t advocate for them in any way. I am an alien in a strange land and the difference between me and you is that I know it.
I think there are acceptable positions between yours and politicolatry.
But yours is certainly a biblically derived view and I respect your right to practice it!
Dave MIller:
There seems to be an overriding fallacy in not recognizing the sovereignty of God in all things. For instance, I think that many Christians, some of whom you are highly critical, are basing considering their political choices on the foundation not of a certain person but what are that person’s political beliefs and how do those beliefs fit into God’s plan for the universe, and how do they complement our country and support our Constitution.
I could give countless examples of how God used imperfect people to accomplish His will but will restrict it to three shining examples – Abraham, an adulterer, whom God blessed mightily and promised a countless number of descendants as basically the father of all mankind, David, a murderer and adulterer, whom God called a man after His own heart and not only protected him repeatedly, but used him mightily despite his sins, and Nebuchadnezzar, a scoundrel by any social or religious measurement, whom He used to discipline His chosen people.
Christians should not judge any person based on some personal faults but on how his or her policies and beliefs actually fall in line with God’s will for mankind and his universe.
Are morals important? Absolutely, YES! But, I vividly remember what I consider to be my worst voting failure, which was, I cast my vote for Jimmy Carter during his first running solely because he was a professed Christian. Many historians to this date have generally judged his presidency as the worst so far in U.S. history. Personally, I think he takes a hind seat to Barack Obama, but that’s beside the point.
I’m not pushing or condemning any person or supporting any political party by my remarks(that’s the prerogative of every person) but merely pointing out that God doesn’t always use perfect people, as it seems many of our commentators think they are, to accomplish His purposes. As one proverb goes, Christians aren’t perfect, just saved.
I can only believe that God decided at one point in the past that America was His best hope among the nations of the world to promote His Gospel and carry out His Great Commission and has currently chosen Donald J. Trump to lead this country and perhaps save it from the infidels who would destroy it for personal gain and power including shutting God out of our lives completely. So, the bottom line is, I don’t think God is finished with the United States of America.
Our ways are not God’s ways; our rules are not God’s rules; our choice for servants is not necessarily God’s choice for servants.
Ken: Yes, God is sovereign, but couldn’t DJT just as easily be a judgement upon America? God, in his sovereignty put Saul and many other evil kings in place over Israel.
Fine. I have no problem with someone holding the views you hold.
However, I have witnessed rank hypocrisy when we condemn Democratic politicians for lack of character and then say that character is secondary to policy for Republicans.
Dobson’s hypocrisy on this was stunning.
Whatever you make your stance, make it consistent.
Strider: In my experience many of the Christians I know personally absolutely regard Democrats and the media as “the enemy”. When DJT labels them the “enemy of the people” they are absolutely on board. They aren’t well meaning but misguided people with whom we disagree, they are America hating traitors whose only goal is chaos, death, and destruction.
Easy trigger. You language veers to labelling Republicans as evil and the enemy. Does that make you an America hating traitor?
. You language is offensive and ignorant. It presumes knowledge you cannot possibly have. It’s the kind of polemic that is tearing us apart.
Two can play the game as easily as you. It’s quite simple frankly to offer slander and attack. We can do it all day long and at the end, you will have more hatred, more division, more dishonor, more shame than at the beginning.
No one will be convinced or persuaded.
“Does that make you an America hating traitor?”
You kind of missed my point. I’m against labeling anyone the enemy, even democrats. In my experience Republicans (of which I am one) are no more or less virtuous than Democrats. This goes double for politicians.
“It presumes knowledge you cannot possibly have”
On the contrary. I don’t have to guess or presume. They say it openly.
Who is they? Some tiny group of people you know or the millions of others. You paint with a broad brush and it gets on you too.
It’s the problem.
The political issue of he moment is not worth throwing everything else overboard .
“Some tiny group of people you know or the millions of others. “
That’s why I said “in my experience”. We judge by what we see and hear. That’s all any of us can do.
John: I’m curious why you think it false that evangelical Christians think Democrats and the media are evil enemies? Evangelicals love Trump, and Trump makes this claim all the time.
I am curious. why you think that mentality started with and hinges on Donald Trump?
Dave,
I agree with so much of what you say here. Very good thoughts.
I do not believe, however, that the SBC should try to find the sweet spot political positions so that they can attract African Americans or any other ethnic groups.
Going down the attractional church model route is often not genuine and often has no stopping point.
People have political opinions out of conviction. And as we can see, some of these can be very important to people.
Rather than insisting that people moderate or change their opinions, I think we should let people be who they are.
Due to region, style, culture, different churches will reach different people.
When it comes to official denominational statements on politics, I would prefer we focus on big issues where there is clear scriptural support. Don’t kill people. Treat people equally. Support religious freedom for all.
I would avoid many issues that get promoted today.
I believe there is way too much effort being given to trying to shape the denominational image, and trying to force agreement on too many issues.
But again, your points are very good.
Apples and oranges.
This is not the “attractional model.” We are talking about refusing to divide over non-essentials.
that’s right, dave
I read, we need to sacrifice our culture and stop pushing GOP politics as changing so we can attract certain people.
What I am against (and you may not be saying this) are things like changing church music or other natural cultural aspects of people to attract a different group of people.
Or hiding or changing sincerely held political beliefs to do the same. As in – push CRT/I.
I think it is pretty clear.
Partisan politics shouldn’t divide Christians and denominations. Our devotion to the GOP has been raised to a point of faith (see CBN) and I do not think that honors Christ.
CRT/!? Really?
Yes, since CRT/I is based (even founded) in a distinctively secular (godless, actually) and political worldview and its now being suggested by some of our SBC leaders that we use it as a tool to inform our understanding and thoughts regarding the world we live in….Therefore, I would suggest it clearly belongs in any SBC discussion addressing whether devotion to political ideations honor Christ.
Bravo Dave. Well said. I have been a supporter of the GOP since way back in 1956 my Dad came home for lunch and put an I Like Ike button on my shirt. I have not always agreed with the politics of my party, but like Ronald Reagan on stated that he left the Dems because they “Left Me.” It is too bad every two and four years we are bombarded with political ads that put down the other candidate. And those of us in Iowa it seems we never get a rest. I also appreciate your comments about Mr. King. He certainly is a conservative, but is some ways he is too far to the right if that is possible. Like always in previous elections we have to pray and pray hard. Thankfully we know that no matter the outcome, God is still in complete control.
Yes, CRT/I are definitely politically oriented.
The Tennessee Baptist Convention actually rebuffed the SBC for passing Res 9 that promoted CRT/I.
That is EXACTLY the kind of thing you should be against. I agree with you that we should focus on the Gospel and avoid divisive things.
Are you saying Res 9 was not divisive?
Or are you agreeing Res 9 was divisive, but it’s ok because it was the kind of “Gospel Issue” we should pursue?
CRT/I is the most ridiculous, overblown, non-issue.
And the resolution that was offered was intended to be used as a wedge. The committee possibly should have simply rejected it but they tried a middle ground.
Division was at the heart of that resolution when it was offered. The committee attempts at middle ground failed.
Yep. There is another word for “finding middle ground”….compromise.
You are right though. The committee should have rejected it rather than seeking a compromise regarding an anti gospel political and social construct/philosophy.
I really see no meaningful difference between voting prolife and voting Republican. As a prolife voter rhat is not my fault. But it is our political reality. Sadly, the SBC is likely only 60-70% prolife…getting less all the time
60 to 70% pro life?
I call false on that one. I imagine it is closer to 95 to 99%
I know NO pro-choice folks in the SBC.
I know there are a lot of false narratives circulating in the anti- ERLC, pro-CBN circles, but please tell me this is something different! Please!
That might be true of pastors. But people in the pew are very conflicted about abortion.
Okay. Well, I can’t argue that. Here in my neck of the woods, I’d still use the 95% figure. But you pagan Missouri folks…
I think the vast majority of GOP politicians are PLINO – pro life in name only. They sell us out any chance they get.
They use us for votes then ditch us when they have power.
One of the reasons I renounced the GOP.
Except almost all of the ones in the Senate keep affirming judges who would show more restraint in interpreting the Constitution so that most issues will remain legislative ones.
Pastors rarely preach on abortion or other hot button moral issues because the folks in the pew are morally conflicted. Their moral values are biblical until they are inconvient.
Many Baptists are anti-abortion. But that does not mean they are truly prolife. We are very pragmatic in our moral positions. That is why so many evangelical young ladies get abortions, divorce is not spoken about and cohabitation is becoming normalized.
I have never preached on abortion or homosexuality or sexual abuse or any of those topics, because in general, I preach text-driven messages., not topical. I address abortion and homosexuality and sexual abuse and racism and such issues when the text warrants it. But I actually never “preach on” any of those topics.
But i can say this – in the Baptist churches I have been part of, preaching against abortion takes no courage at all. Preaching against racism got me in trouble in my church in Virginia. But abortion? 100% (or nearly so) agreement.
“Many Baptists are anti-abortion. But that does not mean they are truly prolife.”
If the limit of my engagement on pro-life is simply voting for a political party platform, am I truly pro-life?
Mike W,
As for voting: I always answer that question when it is asked of me like this…
If you vote for a pro-life candidate you can claim the pro-life mantle…whether that candidate is a an R or D or constitutional, or Libertarian, or Green Party or…..
If you vote for a candidate (who has a policy impact on that issue – Sheriffs for example do not) who is pro abortion then you cannot claim to be pro-life.
So if baby killing is something you are against there are just some candidates (and parties) you cannot vote for and accurately claim the prolife mantle.
In life though…pro-life ethic extends beyond doing what we can (including voting) to oppose the governmental sanction and furtherance of it.
While anti baby killing might be identified as “the floor” of a pro-life ethic – there are lots of ways to engage in pro life ethics in addition to that.
You actually stated my point much better than I did. I like your floor/ceiling metaphor. What’s your (or anyones) take on the percentage of Bible believing Christians where voting is the ceiling instead of the floor? I’ve seen the growth of foster/adoption ministries at the church level, as well as direct and material church involvement in prenatal counseling, as well as work with refugees that give me hope that the floor is not enough for a growing group of believers.
Dave, IMO you covered the reality and truth of the issue about as well as can be done. We are not going to agree on all of these issues. Is it ok to say that’s ok?
Thank you, Dave. Your comments are especially … prophetic for the SBC. I share your concerns and convictions. Well said and worth saying! We need to be Gospel first and foremost.
Thanks for the clear explanation about moral issues here. We must work to try to see how our brothers and sisters in Christ are influenced by their experiences.
I was a “TIBTHer” in 2016, with regrets. Of course, Mrs. Clinton is not the issue this year. Neither is the same “moderate” Joe Biden from years past but a candidate who of necessity has to be more radicalized to win his own party. President Trump, however, is still the same … Donald.
Thanks
No one considers, nor is there knowledge or discernment to say, “Half of it I burned in the fire; I also baked bread on its coals; I roasted meat and have eaten. And shall I make the rest of it a politician? Shall I fall down before a man-made government?” He feeds on ashes; a deluded heart has led him astray, and he cannot deliver himself or say, ‘Is there not a lie in my right hand?” Borrowed from Isaiah 44
If you vote for a political party to solve the nations problems- even and especially abortion- you are in danger of idolatry. There is only one answer to societies evils- especially abortion- and that is the Gospel. As we proclaim our allegiance to a political party or individual we throw a blanket over the Gospel and hide our light from the world. The results are the darkness we now see. I am not ashamed of the Gospel for it is the power of God unto salvation! It my salvation and yours. It is the salvation of our families, our friends and neighbors, and our enemies. It is the salvation for the unborn and for the aged, for liberal and the conservative.
Thank you, Strider! I felt like I’d been to church this morning after reading your comment.
The author said “The more we make the SBC about gospel issues,” there I think is the rub. What is the Gospel( I know its 1 Cor. 15:3-4 ) but I might see as a secondary or even political issue is often portrayed as a Gospel issue. If I don’t line up on a certain this side I am denounced as a racist, bigot or chauvinist. I am a traditionalist 🙂
Love this Dave. I don’t know about a nail in the coffin for the SBC, but if we don’t get out of moralizing in and around politics, we will certainly lose any ground gained. Be informed, vote your God given conscience and let the message be Christ alone, the love of Christ in words and actions. Again, good work and leadership
Very well said.
The quandary for American Christians is learning to be faithful to the mandates of the New Covenant. First, we are citizens of another kingdom whose King is worthy at all times of our worship, loyalty, respect and praise. We approach Him first and respect His revelation through Scripture above all other earthly teaching. Second, we are not free to abstain from participation in the earthly system that is American politics. In the same way that first century believers had to learn to honor pagan and ungodly emperors, we are mandated to honor “government of the people, by the people and for the people”. This requires a continually deft approach where we evaluate and analyze who we can support with our vote.
For those suggesting that that the GOP has abandoned us on conservative issues and the abortion issue…..
I encourage you to check out ACLU, NAARAL and Planned Parenthood websites and then bounce over and check out prolife sites see which groups who watch this stuff closely are jubilant and which are in great distress over the record number of Federal judge conservative and profile appointments and confirmations by Republicans.
McConnell and the Senate is confirming these justices at breakneck speed…the GOP majority is largely voting in lockstep confirming the judges many of whom are connected with the Federalist Society. This is a really good thing for all issues of Liberty – including the abortion issue.
I feared this would not be the case – but I am pleasantly surprised!
I also am quite chagrined when fellow pro-lifers fail to see (or see and refuse to acknowledge) what has been done on this front by the POTUS. His personality and narcissism and arrogance and obnoxiousness and political styles, and other shortcomings aside….
It is just untrue to assert that the GOP and POTUS have abandoned the profile cause….choosing not to vote for DT is everyone’s personal conscience decision and as Dave Miller said in his post – we should not judge each other on that front – – but suggesting this administration has not been more pro life and pro religious liberty than any in our lifetimes is either the product of disingenuousness or ignorance.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/one-in-every-four-circuit-court-judges-is-now-a-trump-appointee/2019/12/21/d6fa1e98-2336-11ea-bed5-880264cc91a9_story.html
exactly! last time I voted on what he SAID he would do. This time I can vote for what he has DONE, especially on religious liberty & pro-life. And did you listen to his Good Friday speech? Good grief, it sounded like any Baptist preacher I know. “But he didn’t mean it!” really? you don’t know his hear, only God does. “but he’s crass and immoral and a sinner.” well he’s in good company – compared to the standard (Jesus Christ) so are you and I.
Agreed. I have always been a staunch Independent. And God can use anyone He wants to do the job of governing. I have been stymied by the Christian leaders who have not been willing to give GRACE to our duly elected president and all he has done with all the FORCES working against him and all the false charges. He has to be a strong man. In my estimation, with all that is going on there is only one party right now. God used David and a lot of others sinners that sought repentance. I heard a pastor the other day on FB Live tell his congestion to watch the evening news and not cable news. What? They are the worst!! Just look at the CV-19 news conferences. That made me sick to my stomach. And there’s more than just one CABLE News Network.
Before I even read the comments, I believe it should be stated that our vote according to the Constitution and common sense is secret. Perhaps we should return to that concept… vote but keep our choice to ourself.
Our time as Christians would be far better spent devoted to the cause of the Gospel than to the cause of politics. If we truly devoted ourselves to the work of the Church, we would not have to worry about how others are voting or political power.
Additionally, I vote my morals, my values, my conscience. That is all anyone needs to know and the Constitution backs me up on my right to privacy.
When Paul and Peter wrote the passages in Romans and I Peter referencing the governing authorities, Nero was in power. Under his authority, both men would be executed. Yet in spite of that, they laid out very compatible arguments about the church’s position regarding government authority and that is respect for it, but without any endorsement of it. Even in the face of the most severe persecution the world has witnessed, Christians did not resist or rebel against the authorities. The end result of the sacrifice they made in following the instructions of those two apostles was that they kept their testimony of faith in Christ in tact, without compromise. The pagan population around them saw not only their respect for authority but the martyrdom of so many people at the hands of the emperor led to so many conversions that by the third century, the emperors themselves were converted.
Circumstances for us, in a country where we vote to choose our leadership, may be different but the principle is still the same. Respect for the governing authority is a key doctrine of the faith, but “respect” doesn’t translate into “endorsement” or support for political positions. There’s no scripture that supports this, or suggests that the endorsement of certain candidates over others is the church’s role. Respect for the governing authorities meant Nero to Paul and Peter, and it means whoever they are to us. I do not believe church leaders, who are called to serve that role, should endorse candidates or political parties or work to influence their congregation to do anything except be the church that is called to worship, evangelize, minister and fellowship.
I’m going to surprise you, Dave. For once, I agree with your thesis. The church, be it SB or any other, shouldn’t get overly involved in secular politics.
I’ve often been criticized for saying, we cannot legislate morality. If the church teaches the Word of God and people take the word to heart then moral issues like abortion, racism, abuse…will be abolished despite government, not because of it. But until people change their heart on these matters government has little bearing. The church’s job is to change hearts, not government.
I look forward to the rest of your thesis. Just slide it under the door. I don’t need anymore nail holes to repair.
Dave Miller:
I think your Point 3 addressing individual liberty is an important one. Our founding fathers made sure that individual liberty was extremely important to welfare of this new nation.
Therefore, I would not think it desirable, or reasonable, to inhibit any SBC member, whether as an employee or volunteer serving in any SBC state or national office, or any member at large, from expressing his or her personal viewpoints or preferences on any person or subject, whether religious, political or secular.
However, while everyone should be free to speak out about his or her views on those subjects, I think that it is imperative that they should be strongly discouraged from presenting their opinions in a manner that might lead others to conclude or conceive that they are speaking for the SBC. The ideal would be for any who serve in any SBC office, when presenting their personal views, to make that a preceding caveat. Seems like a good point to be addressed in the next BFM rendition.
One thing I am adamant about – no SBCer should ever be telling another for whom they should or should not vote, although I would not consider it out of bounds for persons to state the traits of, and support for, certain candidates who espouse principles and policies which one considers to be in harmony with God’s Word (at the same time realizing that there is a difficulty in that since there is not universal acceptance of SBC members about the meaning of some of God’s Word ). Also, it should not be considered inappropriate to point out the beliefs of specific candidates which are contrary to God’s Word.
So, it’s OK to evaluate, not OK to nominate, and never, ever OK to dictate.
I think Al Mohler should have kept his opinion to himself. On the other hand, now that it is out, those who are tweeting (gleefully) that students are standing against the tide and withdrawing their applications to Southern are the same album, different side. The same people praising Mohler in 2016 are now convinced he has sold his soul. Please!
I pretty much quit commenting on this site after the 2016 he-said/she-said between the pro-Trump crowd and the Never Trump crowd. My two cents would be this: Don’t post Political Threads! You might as well start posting Calvinist/Arminian threads again, because both will always bring out the worse reactions in people, myself included.
You are so right about the political threads, Nate. Nothing good ever comes from them…the only topic worse might be the one you mentioned or perhaps the moderationist vs. prohibitionists debates!
I mentioned in a post the other day that the Rabid Antitrumpers and the Rabid Trumpers have at least one characteristic in common…self-righteous judgementalism. It comes in spades from both sides.
I will admit to this, Nate. I get frustrated because most of the comments have NOTHING to do with my post. It’s like they see the topic of the post just riff on whatever the topic is. I honestly question whether most of those who comment even read the articles. If they do, their comments are seldom about ANYTHING that has to do with what I wrote.
I stopped engaging many of the comments, and many of the commenters, for that reason. It is aggravating!
I was really proud of the students holding Mohler accountable for implying that 90% of Black evangelicals who tend to vote Democrat were voting for a nonChristian worldview. I appreciated the students who decided to not matriculate in Southern because Mohler declared the Republican party platform represented a Christian worldview. Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of the world.” To declare either party as representing a Kingdom worldview is out of bounds with my understanding of the Baptist priesthood of the believer doctrine, freedom of religion/religious liberty doctrine & the separation of church and state principle that Baptists cherish.
This is the best article about Baptist’s and politic I’ve ever read. Amen to every point made!
Thank you, sir!
Actually, I like political posts and debate type posts. I enjoy the back and forth when there’s something real to discuss.