Friends, read this article quickly as it will likely disappear soon.
There is only one reason this got published; namely, Dave Miller doesn’t know much about computers. Due to a massive oversight I still have some admin powers on Voices. I have the power–at least for the time being–to post an article without Mr. Dave’s permission. Here it is…likely my last post on Voices.
You might have noticed that Borrowed Light (my blog) no longer appears on the SBC Voices watchlist. You’ve probably assumed that I’ve been busy or just stopped writing altogether. That’s not true. I’ve just been quietly written off by the Voices Illuminati. In an effort to keep me silent they’ve deleted my blog from their precious watch list.
Honestly, I’m not sure what I have done to tick them off. I only know that I did. I received an email from Mr. Miller awhile back. It was a blank email that only carried the subject line–“No More”. I didn’t know what it meant at first. I assumed this was one of Dave’s accidental emails that he sends on occasion. Then, as the days went on I began realizing that this was Dave telling me that I’ve been cut out of the loop.
Personally, I think their motive is jealousy. Ever since I’ve become a published author, had links on Challies, and have gotten a wider audience they’ve been treating me differently. Truth be told I’ve wanted out for a long time. But I was under contractual obligation and continued posting for Voices. A couple years ago I made the foolish mistake of getting into this little Voices mafia. They promised to help promote my articles and give me a wider platform–and I promised to do their bidding.
Well, I’m finished. I’m done with this. They aren’t keeping their end of the bargain. So I’m not keeping mine. Here a few juicy details that you’ll want to take a screen shot of before Dave deletes them:
- Every article written on SBCVoices is heavily edited by the goons at LifeWay. They let some of them slide so as not to be obvious. They like to appear fair and balanced but we writers know the truth.
- Tony Kummer doesn’t actually exist. Who is he? I’ll give you a hint. If you need to get in touch with “Tony” you send an email to a Mr. Wax at LifeWay.
- Dave Miller publicly says that he hates Calvinism debates. Yet, every week we get an email begging us for articles on Calvinism. He sends us stats from Voices and stats from “the other guys” and tells us that we had better drum up some controversy so that we don’t lose.
- We had to sign a gag order before signing onto the team. There are several things that I simply cannot tell you for legal reasons that I would love to. Maybe in November when my contract is up.
- It’s not an accident that the last two 2nd VP’s are products of SBCVoices. That’s part of the deal. If you guys think your vote for 2nd VP actually counts then you’re silly. It’s rigged. The others ones aren’t yet. The Voices Illuminati is not that brazen. But they figure they can experiment with the 2nd VP position to see how much power they’ve got. Doug Hibbard is slated to be the 2nd VP next year.
That’s all the dirt that I can unleash at this point.
Pray for me. I’ll continue blogging at Borrowed Light (http://mikeleake.net) until they figure out how to shut that down too. I would have posted this on my own blog but you would have never noticed it because I’ve been snuffed off that Watchlist.
By the way you might want to update your feed reader to my new address. Once I switched over to WordPress I had to change that…and so if you had me on some sort of feed aggregator or something like that you’d need to update it to http://feeds.feedburner.com/mikeleake/blog
It’s been fun…
Satire or Sour grapes….
If Satire, then pretty cool
If Sour grapes; and you really mean what you’ve stated… then, well… how do we know this is not really Dave 🙂
Anyway…. I’ll give this to my two year old niece to figure out.
Maybe “mike” is a mosquito?
😉
Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth but only that which is helpful for building up others according to their needs.
I don’t believe that I have ever commented here before but this caught my eye.
Mr. Leake, don’t you think that there is a better way to handle this? A more mature way? A way that honors our Lord by abiding by scripture?
I know not your intention, but I do recognize the seed of dissension. Don’t let that be a character trait you carry around as a badge. I would encourage you to repent and seek forgiveness and to handle this in a God honoring way instead of in the public arena.
I hope you will consider your actions in light of Scripture and act accordingly.
Guys, come on…………
I guess humor is in the eye of the beholder.
I, too, saw the humor.
I would call it an effort at satire.
Mr. Leake:
I imagine that we should approach you in a civil fashion, using carefully cratfted legalese to invoke penalty clauses and such. Lawyers would make phone calls and desist letters would be sent.
However – this is Lifeway and we do things a bit differently.
Be seeing you.
Mr. Wax
Folks, relax. Mike is one of my good friends in blogdom. He is certifiably nuts, of course.
I will be sending my goon squad to give him a much needed attitude adjustment.
In the meantime, relax and enjoy Mike’s odd humor.
See how this is all just a joke to Dave. If thats his real name…
Dave, you really shouldn’t call CB Scott and Dave Worley “goons”. It isn’t nice.
This is brilliant and mostly true.
Looks like SOMEONE is about to make you an offer you can’t refuse, Mike. Hope you don’t own any horses……
I bet they try to convert me to Calvin.
It’s a good thing you didn’t take
the wager I offered last night – ten bucks that people would think you were serious.
I can’t be bought for ten bucks, Dave.
Mr. Leake:
Whether you are successfully reprogrammed as a Calvinist or not makes no difference in terms of your predestination for the doom that awaits.
Sincerely,
Mr. Wax
I LOVE a good conspiracy theory. How do we know you are not from the Government, only trying to infiltrate our ranks?
Keep looking over your shoulder….
Odd humor indeed for the public realm. I am a casual reader of this site and with the way things have been going in our denomination, well, without knowing Mr. Leake anyone, inside or outside of our convention could take this as negative light with which to paint the sbc, Christians,and/or the church.
With so many people scouring for ammunition against the church, they don’t need for us to hand it to them.
I am thankful this was nothing more than an attempt at humor. However, for what it is worth, let’s give the world, especially in the public arena, a better representation of what it is we are called to. If this was a closed forum without public access, then maybe this type of humor might be better placed.
Just the thoughts of a casual reader of this site who was saddened by what I read and disheartened by the means i
Jeremy, I realize that my sense of humor is not like other peoples’ – I get that. But I think that things like this are far more likely to offend Christians than they are to offend lost people.
Odd humor indeed for the public realm. I am a casual reader of this site and with the way things have been going in our denomination, well, without knowing Mr. Leake anyone, inside or outside of our convention could take this as negative light with which to paint the sbc, Christians,and/or the church.
With so many people scouring for ammunition against the church, they don’t need for us to hand it to them.
I am thankful this was nothing more than an attempt at humor. However, for what it is worth, let’s give the world, especially in the public arena, a better representation of what it is we are called to. If this was a closed forum without public access, then maybe this type of humor might be better placed.
Just the thoughts of a casual reader of this site who was saddened by what I read and disheartened by the means in which it was made public. Again, glad to hear it was only an attempt at humor, but let’s not give anyone a reason to have a negative opinion of us or the One we represent.
I’m sure the world has plenty of fodder for such opinions even without this post. I see them on Facebook everyday, and I witness them in Christian’s lives on a regular basis. I sometimes give the world reason for such negative opinions myself. So this post is hardly going to do us in. We do a pretty handy job of that out in the world every day.
They do and that’s my point. Let’s not give them anymore. Just because there are other follies out there we have committed doesn’t make it a good idea to add to them. The reasoning you employed does not lead to a sound argument: there’s already plenty out there so what’s the issue with one more? I don’t think that lines up with sound reasoning. I am not trying to call you out, I just want us to think more critically about things like this while we can amongst brothers and friends.
My plea is that discernment concerning these type of posts be utilized and consideration given to the openness of the forum in which they are placed.
Jeremy, my plea is that we not become so humorless that we just spend our time going back and forth on stuff like this. To make this a “the reasoning you employed does not lead to a sound argument” issue is simply ridiculous. Stop it, have a laugh, and quit taking yourself so seriously that you can’t enjoy a little spoof.
Jeremy,
It’s okay to have fun from time to time. Consult the manual, it’s in there.
I laughed.
😉
forget the ‘Calvinist Takeover”
heck we got a real mob squad afoot –
….the Millerites and the Leakeians
😉
|
If readers don’t go to the website they will not think its a joke. I read it on Feedly and was disheartened. Went to the site to read the comments, but I don’t usually do that. Not the best idea.
I cannot resist the temptation to suggest that a certain group of individuals within Southern Baptist life possesses a theology that predisposes them to a cold and humorless existence. By all means, let us have more wrath and less mirth.
RICK, I knew you would see the humor in it. 🙂
I think the ‘problem’ is that people take things literally that might be phrased as literary ‘devices’ . . . satire was developed so that folks could get their point across but in a way that might be taken TWO ways, so they could not be charged by the state with sedition.
Perhaps folks here remember the story of Gulliver’s Travels? Pure satire directed against the king of England at the time. But no one could prove it because of the fun way that it was written . . .
people sometimes have difficulty with other literary devices that are used connected with important works of writing . . . allegories, poetic language . . . there is a wealth of types of expression used in writing that, if taken literally, misses the point of the author(s).
I really like ‘satire’ as a way of shaking people up . . . but I think Mike’s post (if it IS satire) is more of an ‘insider’ joke, and I do agree that it is open to mis-interpretation by those not in on the ‘inside’.
Now, if Mike wanted to expose those who have no sense of humor, well . . . some of the comments do tell a tale about their owners’ ability to see the fun in a piece of writing.
Is it possible we bring more of ourselves to what we read than we know in our responses ? Yes. It is. Happens all the time.
Satire was developed? I thought it started in the garden
Feedly was my avenue to this post as well.
There’s your problem. You should be using Feedbin.
Been extremely busy the last couple of months with serving as parliamentarian for a couple of State organizations and taking care of my wife who broke her hip so I was surprised when I started getting calls about this post. At first I read it and shook my head then after I finished my morning chores in preparation for tomorrow I came to the site to reread it and comments. I’m glad I did but it is a bad attempt at humor or spoofing.
Recommend we stick to posts that could at least some form of positive debate.
Gotta get back to my care giving
Blessings
“Positive debate” as in Calvinism, alcohol usage, infants burning in hell kind of stuff?
My respect for and fear of Lifeway has grown with this post. This was clearly intended as a serious post – a definite cry of help from Mike – until Lifeway’s Counter Action Squad Hitters (CASH) got into gear to try and make this post look like satire. What many people do not realize is that the head of CASH is a former Cuban migrant worker named Enrique Sanchez who changed his name a few years back but kept his initials the same and has deeply imbedded himself in Lifeway. He also works for the NSA and uses his dual role to keep an eye on dissidents in the SBC – folks like Mike who are trying to warn our Baptist churches about the pending One Denomination Government and the loss of our way of life. No one will listen because every time one of these brave souls speak out, CASH tries to make them look like fools.
Just look in the comments, folks. Those claiming satire and those feigning outrage all come from the same source. Follow the money. Follow the money. Stop being sheeple.
(Note: don’t be surprised if they attempt the same tactic on my comment. These people are ruthless.)
Now that deserves a wink 😉 and a smile 🙂
Has anyone verified that last statement? Is there in fact anyone working for Lifeway named Ruth?
A quick Google search reveals that Lifeway has actually published study guides about Ruth. Wouldn’t that make them not ruthless?
LOL. That’s hilarious, Ben. Have you ever tried writing satire? I hear it’s tough…and dangerous.
How’s finding that doctor coming?
If that’s how it works then I’m going to go write a book about being rich!
But you aren’t Rich, you’re Chris.
Chris is short for Christopher which means Christ Bearer. Still think I’m not rich?
I was humorless today until Mike tickled my funny bone. Now I’m humorfull…all within 30 minutes of waking up (after not being able to sleep most of the night.)
All I ask is that no one take my humerus. It turns out I’m pretty attached to it especially when typing at the keyboard…
All right, some people just need to stop believing everything they read. I think beyond the humor that was the point of this little exercise. I mean seriously, I could tell that what was going on by the first sentence of the second paragraph. Those who cannot divorce satire from reality, really need to get out of the denominational/theological/social debate venues. Seriously, as I suspect this post was poking fun at, there are “bloggers” out there who post “scoops” into denominational life, into ministries and leaders, that make accusations and claims of impropriety. They post these as verified fact, yet when you boil them down, all they are, are personal rantings and innuendo, which often skirt the truth either through direct intentional omission, or through callous biased ignorance. Again, seriously people, if you cannot differentiate between humor and truth, you might just need to stop being involved in these things period. You will do yourself and the rest of us a big favor.
It’s on the Interwebz…of course it’s true!?!
svmuschany,
Very wel said.
I don’t get it and I read stuff here a lot. Call me dense, call me maybe
But Svmuschany, it is more fun to take the whole thing as serious as death warmed over. Clearly you cannot divorce reality from satire, especially, if you believe in no divorce for any reason. Obviously, you are too involved to get the true perspective, and your rantings and innuendo neither skirts the truth by omission or avoids it by calloused and biased ignorance. Truly, funny people, if you differentiate truth from humor, you will never cease from being involved in the period of these things. Wow! Am I not confused? Not!
Can we get back to the main biz of arguing about the falsehoods of Calvinism. I find myself lacking in subtlety and sincerity. This goody two shoes approach is stifling my style. Mike your leaking all over the place for puns and funs.
Hey brothers,
As a still fairly new follower of the sight and occasional commenter, I just wanted to chime in and say that it was not obvious that this was a joke until I got into the comments and saw Dave telling folks to relax.
Mike, if you truly felt this humor was permissible in the public forum, then I think you would have been wise to at least let the average readers know it was a joke – especially when there’s the chance of it being shared on other sites where the comments aren’t readily available for clarification. As far as I’m concerned personally – no harm, no foul. But this kind of stuff can definitely backfire.
In Christ,
-Bob Browning
I agree with Bob’s assessment.
As one outside the SBC—my initial reaction was to take it literal for its negative portrayal of SBC entities.
But I think coming clean is a much more justifiable approach than humor.
The joke was in poor taste and perhaps even sinfully deceptive from a site that seems to present itself as real, honest perspectives from within the SBC. Perhaps I did misunderstand the intent of this site.
But I think you owe the public an apology. Certainly there are others who read this at glance and will never know the truth—they may hold lifelong contempt for some of the names you mentioned and/or implied. Hope and pray that the damage was minimal.
God bless!
An apology?
If I hadn’t already lost faith in the human race, I would have with this comment.
Hi CHRIS ROBERTS,
here is something to think about concerning faith in the human race:
“St. Paul tells us that the human race takes its origin from two men: Adam and Christ. . . The first man, Adam, he says, became a living soul, the last Adam a Life-Giving Spirit.
The first Adam was made by the last Adam, from whom he also received his soul, to give him life. . .
The second Adam stamped His image on the first Adam when He created him. That is why He took on Himself the role and the name of the first Adam, in order that He might not lose what He had made in His own image.
The first Adam, the last Adam: the first had a beginning, the last knows no end.
The last Adam is indeed the first; as He himself says: “I am the first and the last.”
(from a sermon by Peter Chrysologus)
He does not owe the public an apology; he owes them an analogy as every Southern Baptist understands. Naturally, we do not expect one who is not a Southern Baptist and unacquainted with vagaries of our half-baked and totally off the wall comments that do body slams with reality.
Really now folks: just how many non-Christians do you think follow SBC Voices? I mean, maybe a few; we have a few non-Baptists who show up here and comment, and although some are quick to categorize some of them as unsaved. . . well, I won’t go there, but even if correct, those folks tend to be theists, and sympathetic (or at least not antagonistic) toward Baptists. But am I naive, or do gobs and gobs of atheists haunt this and similar websites, seeking ammunition against Christians? Frankly: we do more damage to ourselves than non-Christians do, shooting ourselves in the foot, and killing our own wounded. Mike, you don’t owe anyone an apology, and we all would do well to lighten up at times.
John
John, John, if we followed that line of thinking, we would never use satire or humor or any such thing. Even one old Puritan stopped in one of his hours long sermons and said, “I will tell you a pleasant little story.” I have no doubt that that was a welcome relief.
That is pretty much my point: that Mike needs to make NO apology for his satire. It is not humor or satire with which we wound ourselves or give ammunition to our opponents, but the other stuff we do in all seriousness.
John
Was it Christian humor?
or just a waste of time?
I vote the latter.
All,
Allow me to explain my intention in this satirical post. Yes, it is absolutely satire. I love LifeWay (I write for LifeWay–though after this post they might not want me to admit this). I love Dave Miller and am happy for the opportunity to blog here.
As far as the whole issue with Borrowed Light not appearing on the watchlist. I had updated my blog to WordPress and as such my feed changed. Tony uses these feeds to make his watchlist. He has not yet updated mine. He might not. I don’t know. But I’m confident that it’s not a conspiracy. And I’ll happily write for Voices so long as it continues to be a site that honors Christ and they’ll still have me.
I thought that this might be humorous and that it might even make a decent point. So, I sent it to Dave to see what he thought. He published it.
There are 3 reasons for my writing this satire. 1) Just for the sake of humor. I though that I was over the top enough that people would see that I am merely joking. I figured that saying Tony Kummer is actually Trevin Wax would be enough. But after I had my wife read through it–I realized that if people aren’t accustomed to SBC things the over-the-top nature of the post might not be realized.
2) I desire to make the point that conspiracy theories are ridiculous. Svmuschany made my point for me here. That is in part what I was trying to say, “They post these as verified fact, yet when you boil them down, all they are, are personal rantings and innuendo, which often skirt the truth either through direct intentional omission, or through callous biased ignorance.”
3) It was also a silly way to inform people to update their feed readers. I thought that adding this at the end would help people see that what really happened wasn’t this massive conspiracy but that “if you had me on some sort of feed aggregator or something like that you’d need to update it to http://feeds.feedburner.com/mikeleake/blog” The Voices watchlist uses an aggregator.
Lastly, I apologize for whatever ways I failed in writing this satire. That’s the danger of satire and humor–sometimes it’s totally missed and people take it serious. Yet, I think it is still an effective way to make a point. In this case–conspiracy theories are ridiculous.
I’m sorry for whatever offense that I caused. It is not my intent to stir up strife or division in the SBC but to end it for the sake of Christ.
Blessings.
How narrow focused and closed minded we are that you had to apologize. Is it any wonder we have so much trouble reaching people who don’t know Christ? We seem to always be on the defensive. Almost looking for a reason to be upset.
Dear Mike: As to Conspiracies, you should read what C.S. Lewis implies about the one that so to speak runs the world in his Sci/fi trilogy, his The Great Divorce, and his reference to the same in Letters to an American Lady. In his trilogy, especially, he names one of the conspirators in a lit of fictitious conspirators who is named years later by a serious professor of International Relations (a Ph.D. from Harvard no less and Mr. Clinton’s mentor at Georgetown), Carroll Quigley, in his Tragedy and Hope, to wit, Cecil Rhodes, along with the theology held by the conspirators and the theology they hold, and the theology the conspirators oppose, the theology of Calvinism, which they call determinism. Interesting stuff, no? All on a blog meant to make us laugh. Well, we can any way as the Lord has His own way with such folks. How about a 1000 generations of converted folks in order to crack a joke about the number of the redeemed being a number no one can number…..?
You mean there really is a Mr. Wax?
I had no idea. Thought that was as fabricated as the rest of it.
Yes, but I don’t think this Mr. Wax was Trevin or Tony.
Whew!
Now you see why Southern Baptists are the only ones going to Heaven.
I’m surprised that no one has made the observation that Mr Miller is from Iowa, the state convention that a certain seminary has long drooled over controlling. At last that’s what I heard, though even sharing such a possibility may be my ministerial demise.
Mike:
I, for one, could immediately tell that this article was written with your tongue so far into your cheek that it’s going to take surgical intervention to get it back out. Hope you can find a doctor soon.
But yeah, some Christians have deficient satire-recognition detectors, not to mention the occasional confirmatioon bias. I can remember much facepalming when I heard a radio pastor quote this James Kilpatrick column as if it was a serious news article.
Ben,
You make it sound as if there are only two type of Christians reading this article: those who can detect satire and those who can’t.
I think the real issue goes beyond that surface understanding of detecting satire and involves discernment.
From what I have gathered from the comments on this blog post, Mr. Leake is a regular contributor and he has an odd sense of humor that surfaced as satire.
To those who frequent here often, build comradery, know each others personalities- well, you caught the satire and read the post as intended.
I do not fall into that category. I subscribe to the RSS feed for sbcvoices and read occasional posts as they catch my eye. When I read the snippet that led me to click on the full article, it saddened me to see what was written there. Not just because of what was written, but because of the effects that something like this would have on Christians the world over if picked up by someone looking for fodder. Case in point, I spend time witnessing to a Pakistani Muslim via Google Plus (it is a great tool for witnessing as Pakistan and several other middle eastern countries use it but aren’t allowed to use Facebook) and have for over a year now regularly. He often has misinformation that he brings to my attention that I choose, for his sake, to spend my time correcting in hopes that he can see past the misrepresentation of the Bible, or the Church, or Christians in general. This has happened several times where he will send me a video to discuss with him and it will be a “former” Christian who converted to Islam butchering Christian doctrine or some Islamic propaganda that has edited Christians to say something they really weren’t saying when read/watched in context. Some of his sources scour the web for things like this, and they believe it because like us, they too are biased, they want to believe it, and they carry baggage with them.
Since I do not rub elbows with you all on this blog and only read from a distance, I do not know the personalities that frequent here often. So, for me, the context that you have to understand this post, I am/was devoid of. Does that make me any less likely to detect satire? I don’t think it does. You have more knowledge of the people who interact on this blog than I do, thus you are capable of immediately telling that this was tongue-in-cheek.
So, since you are a frequenter of this blog, you recognized the satire and rightly so. If you didn’t, there would likely be a case that your satire-recognition detector. But that leaves the rest of us who have access to the internet. What of us? Should we know that this was satire immediately? I still don’t know who Dr. Wax is. I didn’t pick up the on the subtle clues. What I did pick up on was an unbiblical way to handle a situation (if indeed that situation was true) from one who appeared to be a person who would profess to following Christ. I prayed for him. I prayed for the people who he mentioned in his post. I prayed for the SBC and the repercussions that this might have on those considering joining our denomination and that the evil one might not use this as a tool to harden hearts (such as that of my Pakistani friend) towards the gospel.
So, while you know this is tongue-in-cheek, the rest of the world may very well miss it and some of the world may choose to use this as a weapon against the church even if they know the truth about it.
My point was, after learning the nature of this post, that discernment should be used in a public forum where not everybody knows everyone else. We need to be wiser than that and always on our guard. Let’s not make things tougher for the church and for those trying to spread the gospel to the nations.
Now, having said all that (and looking back up at it, I said a lot- sorry about that), I’m not, nor was I looking for, an apology. I’m just looking for us to be discerning and wise with our words.
Thanks for reading this and hopefully it will be taken in the spirit in which I wrote it.
Jeremy, I want to respond to this (in a friendly way), but it is way late (or way early), and one evidence of this is that the terminology I want to use just won’t come to my mind. Hope to get back to this, but the way blog commenting goes, I may not. You’ve definitely given food for thought, and if I combined it with things I’ve learned from an emphasis on listening, my comments would also be *long*.
Jeremy,
If I had this to write again I would have tried to do a better job of this: http://www.mikeleake.net/2012/06/proverbs-for-christian-blogging-write-with-stumblers-in-mind.html
I thought that I had been over-the-top enough but I understand that if you aren’t accustomed to some of the SBCVoices people–or even people within the SBC–then what you would likely catch is the tone of the article and not necessarily what is being stated. That’s where I didn’t write as clearly as I should have.
Even so, I believe this actually makes my point. When we read something on the internet like this, our first instinct should be to ask whether or not this dude is serious. A simple email to the author would usually suffice. Then, if we determine that he’s serious we ought to do a little fact checking ourselves–if possible. But 9 times out of 10 we are quick to believe and pass along conspiracy theories without doing any research.
Take your Pakistani friend for example. If he came to me with a hit piece like this as evidence that Christians hate one another or something like that. Then, I’d give it a look over–and probably be able to determine that it’s satire (even if it requires emailing the author). At this point I think it’s a great bridge to take it back to your friend and share the gospel. Ask him to consider his heart and what might make him so quickly use a piece of satire to disprove Christianity. Is he actually concerned with the facts? Or does he just want to believe anything so long as it isn’t Christ?
Thanks for reading.
Mr. Leake,
I read your link. I believe you to understand my point/concern. I hope that what you read from me let you know that I care deeply for our church and for the One who gave Himself for her- something I take seriously. I just want to make sure we are not being a stumbling block to our own or those outside our fold. This is something (among many I’m sure) that we agree on.
Having said that, if you were to write an article like this in the future and put it in the public arena (I don’t think you would now), I would know it is meant to be taken as a joke. Two days ago, I did not have this knowledge of you. In addition, I would not expect the onus to be on the reader to contact the author to find out if what is written is the truth when it is on a blog, that is in some capacity, representing those in the SBC. I do understand your point, however I just wasn’t expecting to have to check if what I was reading was truthful on SBC Voices.
And to the others concerning my ability to lighten up and laugh a little; I do. I enjoy a good joke, a fun prank, and especially wit. However, I think you are missing my point if you ascribe my deficit to not being able to laugh a little. I did not take issue with the humor/satire that Mr. Leake sought to convey. The point I was making dealt with discernment on when such humor is appropriate. Am I perfect? No. Do I lack discernment at times? Yes. So I am not attempting to place myself above this issue and cast judgment (hopefully it has not been taken in such a way).
I hope none of you have taken issue with my concerns that I expressed throughout this thread (you can freely take issue with me- that is fine, but hopefully not the concerns): namely discerning when such humor is appropriate. What arena such humor would be ascribed as appropriate. If it wasn’t a joke- repent and seek to reconcile without slander, keeping in mind that we have One who allows us to represent Him to the world and that we should do that well without causing others to stumble.
And just to be sure, there are those out there who will take whatever they can find to turn into propaganda to further their cause. They won’t bother to converse about it, contact the author, or look to see if what is proclaimed is true. They will simply feed it to those who trust them. Again, I have seen this on google plus when attempting to have discussions with Muslims. It is not a far fetched, one off incident.
I plan for this to be my last post on this topic unless someone directly wishes for me to correspond with them.
Mr. Leake, again, I hope my words have been beneficial to you as iron sharpens iron for His glory and our good. I would hope you would do the same for me if the need arose.
I hope you all have a great night and enjoy the remainder of your weekend!
Well, Ben, Kilpatrick’s column today can be taken as serious fact, considering the real nature of the ACLU’s origin and intent and history, and that regardless of the original nature of the column.
But I would not quote it as proof of the ACLU having that nature, as it does not offer any such proof. It’s a fake, a satire, an over-the-top response to the ACLU winning a case to have a county seal changed. If I’m going to put forth a quote to show that the ACLU has that nature, I should be quoting something factual, not something made up that happens to confirm my view of the ACLU. And I should be alert enough to the possibility of my own confirmation bias that I should read carefully to make sure it’s really saying what I think it’s saying, rather than assuming that because it confirms what I believe to be true that it must be true. The radio preacher who I heard (and some others who, over the years, I’ve found or read to have quoted the column as if it were factual reporting) evidently chose the latter.
Ben: I am aware of the ACLU, when it suits their purposes, that it will defend some individuals in cases of religious freedom, but I am also aware of the history of this organization. Who founded and funded it, where most of their efforts are put forth. Sorry, but you mentioned an organization for which I have little use or appreciation.
So are the new rules going to be that this site will be solely devoted to serious theological discussion and no “inside baseball” or college football trash talking will be allowed?
Blah..I might as well hang out at the Gospel Coalition…
Right now, I have absolutely NO desire to talk about baseball, so I’m all for that.
Asking CB Scott not to talk about football is like asking hockey players not to fight.
I went to a boxing match once and a hockey game broke out? It was at the Rough Riders’ arena sw of downtown btw…
Seriously: I about died laughing when these little pipsqueaks of 17 and 18 year olds for no apparent reason threw down their gloves and went after each other. I thought it was the WWE come to Cedar Rapids or something.
Mike, you’ve made factual statements that are self-contradictory and need to apologize.
We used to do a lot more stuff like this – spoofs, pranks, etc. I guess I’ve gotten “dignified” and this site hasn’t had as much of that in recent months.
I have the beginnings of a post about Christians and humor, which I guess I need to think through and finish!
Sorry, but if I have to go around apologizing for every off-the-cuff humorous remark I make simply because someone I don’t know is going to be offended, then I think the problem is with the other folks, not me. Mike, your piece was ridiculous. I laughed as I read it. Keep at it. And never again apologize for having a sense of humor.
I’m done commenting on this. I can’t believe it has generated such negative feedback.
Dale,
Thanks for the support. I really appreciate it.
I have been told many times that Calvinists have no sense of humor. But I always ignore the people who say that. The voices in my head tell me they’re nuts.
Ha!
Love this post and am passing it on.
Now, the sad part is that someone will certainly miss the joke and blog about another conspiracy. Sigh.
In the meanwhile, we will keep producing resources that churches love– and secretly directing this blog from a basement in Nashville.
-One of the goons at LifeWay
P.S. Mike, effective immediately, we won’t be using you as a writer at LifeWay.
But…but…I grew a goatee for you.
That was sponsored by the Stetzer Foundation, but he’s not personally involved in every grant written by his eponymous group.
Doug, I beg to differ you. Stetzer is some much involved, he has even started following me on Twitter. So far I haven’t said any thing worth a mutter on Twitter. O, yes, and I am following him there, too, just to see what skullduggery (sp?)(be glad, when I find my dictionary in one of a 600 boxes or something like that) he is up to or down to!
If you gave into the Stetzer Goatee Cult, I am no longer going to post your articles here.
Mike, sometimes you have to choose sides.
Well, I have never grown a goatee, in fact, not even a handlebar like my Great Grandpappy, the cowboy and gunman.
Oh, and on the practical side—most of the blog directory that used to exist is now empty, so it’s not just you Mike. All of us who failed to cough up a kidney have been cut off.
Is it true that Lifeway is behind Google’s decision to ditch Google Reader? I heard they did it so Voices would no longer be able to serve feeds the way it used to, forcing a change in who makes the cut.
Is it true that Lifeway hired a Presbyterian, who believes that Southern Baptist’s beliefs about baptism are “harmful?”
David
David,
I think you’ve posted this comment on the wrong article.
Dave may shut down the thread or redirect it, but here’s a quick response:
I have no idea. I cannot find the church membership information for what church their new hire (I assume you mean high-level, not the checkout clerk at the local store). Nor do I know if he still holds to his statement about harmful views on baptism or in what way he actually meant it.
If he is actually a Presbyterian and does not hold to a belief in believer’s baptism, then it kind of draws a line that says the Ministry Grid material that Lifeway has developed is not going to be Baptist material but instead generic material that does not hold to the BFM2K. If his views have changed since those comments–I know I have blogged things in the last 6 years since I first typed a post that I would no longer want to be adjudicated by–then it’s perhaps not the apocalypse after all.
I would love to see, on a serious post intending to seriously discuss Lifeway, some serious answers on that issue.
Have you considered writing up your concerns and asking Dave to publish them as their own post?
If I recall correctly, he was hired to work with social media, not to write their material. I’m not sure why his personal theological convictions about baptism would be a remotely relevant issue. Are even non-teaching/etc positions in the SBC limited only to people who fully affirm narrow interpretations of the BF&M?
David, Piper is not over grid. Todd Atkins is. Piper is a marketing and sales guy (ads, social media, tradeshows, etc.).
I really wish that in the future, before you guys write negative articles about SBC entities, that you would get all the facts first.
Facts, smacts.
Jared, you know that talking about “Lifeway hiring a marketing employee who happens to be Presbyterian” is not as interesting, or fun, or as tantalizing as saying “Lifeway hired a Cavinist, peadobaptist believing, Presbyterian to further the Calvinist takeover that’s obviously taking place!”
I don’t think that a lot of the critics of LifeWay are focused on the facts. Piper is a baptistic person who was attending a presbyterian church. He was hired by LifeWay to promote a product/ministry online in a position that has NO influence over content or the production of materials. For such positions, being a card carrying Baptist is not a job requirement.
So, the oft-repeated statement that LifeWay hired a Presbyterian is not true in this case. There may well be Methodists, Presbyterians and maybe the odd Assembly of God adherent among LifeWay’s employees.
Leadership teams are made up of Baptists. Support roles do not require such denominational affiliation. Piper is in the second category.
Jared, I don’t remember writing an article on Piper, nor did I say what he was hired to do…..so, I am shaking my head wondering what you are talking about. Also, he was still a Presbyterian, who said that our views on BAPTISM were harmful. Sooooooo…..those are the facts, Tarheel.
I love Presbyterians, BTW….even if they do say bad things about our view of baptism. I also love Calvinists.
David
David, then prove your accusations about Piper here: 1) You say he’s a Presbyterian. That’s not a true statement. Attending a Presbyterian church doesn’t make one a Presbyterian any more than attending a Baptist church makes one a Baptist. 2) He didn’t say our views on baptism were harmful (he actually said he believed our views; said he was baptistic), but that dogmatic views on baptism are harmful if they keep one from attending a Presbyterian church. His point seems to be that a differing view on baptism is not a good reason not to attend a Presbyterian church. 3) If Piper isn’t over grid or producing literature, why does it matter if he does or doesn’t affirm the BF&M2K, so long as he’s an orthodox evangelical Christian? How many employees at our various SBC entities are not Southern Baptists? Many. I assume there are even folks who are unbelievers (janitors, secretaries, techies, etc.). I’m fine with that, so long as these people don’t influence Southern Baptists away from our understanding of Scripture (the BF&M2K).
If Piper influences Southern Baptists away from the BF&M2K, I share the concern, but none of you have provided any proof that he does or will. His position at Lifeway has been taken out of context, as has his quote.
David, what you have done is taken a quote from 2 years ago out of context to argue for Lifeway being involved in a Calvinist takeover of the SBC (based on your comments on other blogs). That’s ridiculous.
Piper Senior has been beatified by SBC Calvinists who quote him like they quote John Calvin. Piper- the-Younger in the employ of an SBC entity is seen, perhaps unfairly to him, as a kick in the teeth to SBC Trads. Surely, TR et al understood this and were willing to ride it out.
I suspect that this and the infant damnation stuff has diminished greatly the page committee comity.
William,
“I suspect that this and the infant damnation stuff has diminished greatly the page committee comity.”
I disagree. Those who are being curmudgeonly on these issues were curmudgeonly following the report – as seen, for instance, in the fact that the infant issue came to light at all (and as far as that goes there is no “infant damnation stuff” except from a very small subset of the SBC blogosphere.)
I recently stopped posting new comment on my SBC Focus site. One reason was because I think the Calvinism controversy has largely run its course. Not that Calvinists and non-Calvinists are any closer to agreeing, but I felt those who were trying to push out Calvinists have pretty much lost a good portion of their influence. I am more convinced of that now than I was at the time. I think the desperation displayed by the attempt to generate a controversy on the issue of infant salvation makes the point for me. No, the SBC is ready to move on without a great fight on this issue, in line with the kind of unity displayed by the Page committee.
Chris, in many ways I’d like to think you are right about the Calvinist thing having run its course. I rather think it had temporarily gone underground out of respect for Frank Page and his attempt to find a way forward.
This just in!
I have it on good authority that a SBC blogging personality is going to offer a motion next year in Baltimore to instruct Lifeway to require that every potential customer must present a letter signed by the Pastor and Chairman of the Deacons at their church in order to buy anything at any store or online. This letter must be signed and notarized on the same day that the person wishes to purchase from the store. Any SBC church that is caught giving their written approval to non-SBC persons, will be brought before the convention for removal from fellowship on the national, state, and associational level. It is about time we stop all these non-SBC folks from buying goods at “OUR” SBC owned and governed entity.
I move we amend the motion to include a provision that Lifeway only sell material written and produced by Southern Baptists, recognizing that this would necessarily exclude things like the Bible but at least we’d still have the writing of men like Jerry Vines on the shelves.
Chris,
So, are you for Lifeway selling books by TD Jakes and Joel Osteen? Are you for Lifeway selling books like the Shack? And, the little boy going to Heaven and coming back?
David
I only wish the Traditionalists were upset about those and other heretics marketing thier materials in lifeway as you seem to be about orthodox brothers who hold to a valid, biblical different view on soteriology than you do doing so.
(Since Jakes, Osteen and company removal has never really been the focus of concerted effort by you in the past that I’ve seen) . I’m thinking the real goal is to see Calvinist authors and even employees removed….mentioning Osteen just garners more support than if you’d mentioned Piper or Macaurthur.
Tarheel,
Maybe you haven’t been in the blogworld for very long. I have made many statements in the past about Lifeway selling the Shack, Osteen, Jakes, and Joyce Meyer books, etc.
In fact, Tarheel, it might interest you to know that I was involved very heavily in the SBC staying Baptist in our doctrine. I was a part of the group, who used to run SBCToday, who was encouraging the SBC to hold fast to the doctrines, which we hold dear as Baptist Christians….things that we believe that the Bible clearly teaches….with baptism being one of those things.
BTW, I am NOT anti-Calvinist. I have many Calvinist friends, whom I love dearly. I also use Calvinist writers in my study of sermons(McArthur and Spurgeon being 2 of them).
I am anti-extreme Calvinists….the types who believe that anyone not preaching a Calvinist philosophy are not preaching the true Gospel.
David
David,
None of those are traditional Southern Baptist so I’m pretty sure they aren’t Christian and at any rate would be excluded by a “no non-Southern Baptists” policy.
David: You were a part of the group that attempted to tell all of us what Baptist doctrine was. I wouldn’t say you were a part of a group that kept Baptist doctrine Baptist. SBCToday failed then as it is now. If anyone is smart, they will follow those of us who refuse to answer ridiculous charges.
They must be because you chose to come over here and start a fight. 🙂
“Maybe you haven’t been in the blogworld for very long. I have made many statements in the past about Lifeway selling the Shack, Osteen, Jakes, and Joyce Meyer books, etc.”
I’ve been around long enough to see that you criticize those of reformed theology a whole lot more than you do the actual heretics mentioned above. 😉
Further, I agree with Debbie regarding your revisionist history essay. 😉
I make a motion to amend that they steal the HTML code from Amazon so that the Lifeway store web-site finally becomes usable.
Then we can worry about material, because at least that way we will be able to easily find what we’re looking for.
I would agree, but Amazon is cheaper anyway.
Peter Lumpkins at it again? Lol.
I skipped this article for a few days because the title didn’t interest me. But as I was cleaning out my in-box folder this morning, I decided to read the article in the email.
As I read it i thought,
“Ok this is tongue in cheek. “…..
“This has to be a joke, right?” …..
“I hope this is a joke, becuase I thought better of Mike Leake….and Dave” …..
“No punchline in the closing paragraph? Good grief! I better check the comments.” …..
Come on man, next time throw me a reference to 3rd Timothy or the 151 psalm. Then I will know and I will be further along in cleaning up my email avalanche. 😉
It is hard to handle, Ed B., as one is tossed overboard to swim in a sea of molasses. When you get out, it all adheres to you and makes for one sticky mess. If you can get out,,ll….yuck!
Ed,
I thought I had thrown people a bone with that last paragraph. But I don’t think it stuck. I was trying to tip my hand that the reason for not being on the watchlist was due to my switching to WordPress and thus those who use an aggregator (like SBC Voices) would need to update their feeds.
I think I should have made that more obvious–or not used a word like aggregator. LOL.
Dear Mike, aggregator too close to agitator. Now you are in hot water or is it a hot tub these days.
My little girl thinks that an aggregator has really sharp teeth and likes to hang out it rivers.
I was going to suggest aggravator…
Btw: and this has NOTHING to do with this comment thread…
Get your ska on:
The O.C. Superstones “Down to the River”
To Mike: WOW!
I’ve always appreciated outrageous humor. Why else would I have started going to the SBC Conventions?
Bawahahahaha
That going to the SBC for outrageous humor makes me green with envy. Oh, I forgot, I am probably near to being the first to go in this group, dating back to 1959 or 61 (I forget which).
Kudos, Mike! I loved it.
And thanks for the update on the feedburner change. I noticed your site looked different, but was wondering why I hadn’t seen anything in my Feedly from you recently.
Yep. The change (and the not being updated on Voices) has killed my traffic. I’m hoping to get it built back up. Wish I was smart enough to communicate with my old feedly subscribers…but I’m not.
That was all part of our master-plan.
And it would have worked too…if it wouldn’t of been for you kids…and that mangy dog.
I love dogs. All dogs. Especially mangy ones. Love ’em all.
(cats, too)
love, love, love
Christiane, let me tell you about the results that can occur for messing with a dog, mangy or not. We had a family dog named Sandy, part collie, part german shepherd, a family dog, a life stock dog, one that saved our grandmother’s life. Anyway, he died, and my sister and I had his funeral (I was six or seven, and she was four or five). Anyway, she sang Amazing Grace, and I preached his funeral. Now, I am a preacher, and she is married to a preacher. We both have sons, Greg and Craig, and they are preachers. Also our sons are the our pastors. Her son is pastor to her and his father, while our son is our pastor. See what happens from messing with a dog. You had better watch it. You might get converted and your husband might become a Baptist preacher…which all of us are now.
I hope y’all appreciate the new SBC Voices. My lawyers are very pleased. It was sad that it had to come to this…but I didn’t want you missing out on my amazing articles. All is now right with the world….or something like that.
Mike, that is nothing. You should see what my lawyers are preparing and they are more than pleased as the whole thing is set up for a real judicial event where every thing shall go our way. Imagine that! First time I ever felt that way in my life. Last time I felt that way, it ended up the other way, but then I didn’t have such wonderfully fine legal beagles as Clarence Darrow, etc.
Chris, the Shack was being sold at Lifeway, as well as Osteen and Jakes books….I simply asked you if you were for books by these people being sold? I’m not sure why you answered me the way you did.
David