This was originally posted at Bart’s blog, Praisegod Barebones.
The following post refers extensively to the framework that Dr. Al Mohler articulated in his own blog post of 12 July 2005 entitled “A Call for Theological Triage and Christian Maturity.” You can find that article here.
The official statement of faith for the Southern Baptist Convention is the Baptist Faith & Message. I have signed this document several times. And, in point of fact, not only have I signed it, but I also have read it and I agree with it. My signing of this document has been a matter of informed consent.
And yet, agreeing entirely as I do with the content of our statement of faith, I’d still like to toss out something to consider about the document’s format. Although it would make these documents slightly more complex, would it be a good thing to organize statements of faith according to the varying priorities of the doctrines listed therein?
At the very least, one might create a statement of faith that acknowledged Dr. Mohler’s three-tiered system of theological triage by organizing the doctrines into three tiers. The document could begin by stating: “These are the essential doctrines of the faith. Whoever does not affirm these truths, let him be anathema. Any so-called ‘church’ not embracing these truths in teaching and practice is a cult.” And afterwards, the statement could give a list of cardinal, tier-one doctrines.
In the next section, the preamble could go along these lines: “Following are the distinctive beliefs that identify a Southern Baptist. Any church not embracing these truths in teaching and practice, although it may genuinely be a Christian church, is not qualified to cooperate within the Southern Baptist Convention.” The statement could then go on to list which are these tier-two doctrines.
In the final section, the document could stipulate: “The following can be identified as important Southern Baptist beliefs both in our history and in our current practice, and yet we acknowledge that diversity of opinion has and does exist within our convention on these matters, and that some level of cooperation is possible even among those who disagree. Therefore, although we require that the ministries of this convention be conducted in accordance with and not contrary to these beliefs, we do not believe that they rise to the level of importance that would warrant the breaking of fellowship among sister churches due to differences over these matters.” And then the doctrinal statement could enumerate those matters that belong in this category.
Of course, I acknowledge that it would be an absolute political bloodletting in the Southern Baptist Convention actually to work through this process. Nevertheless, I want to make something absolutely clear: I believe that we ALREADY have and are using something like this. It’s just that most Southern Baptists didn’t get a say in how the tiers were created and applied, and the scheme (or schemes), however they exist in the minds of Southern Baptist leaders, aren’t published for anyone’s review or correction.
I know that significant discussion and disagreement might ensue in the comment section over which particular items belong where, and that’s fine, but I hope that you’ll also all make some statement about the overarching concept—whether a tiered statement of faith would be a good idea in general, presuming that doctrines were placed correctly. I think the idea would provide greater clarity than we now enjoy.
As a final note, I should acknowledge my own friendly interaction with Mohler’s Triage (which I published here) in which I suggested that triage is a bit more complicated than a rigid three-tier system could accommodate. This being the case, I believe that a local church’s statement of faith might include even more levels than these three.
As one who believes in the importance of some form of theological triage, I agree with you that such a thing would be good. But I also agree that it would become, as you said, a “political bloodletting.”
Those would be some exciting SBC meetings!
The only point that seems to me to be third-tier is the section on the Lord’s supper which, as has been pointed out, is largely not applied by most in the SBC. There are other parts which have room for differing interpretations but that wiggle room does not move them from being tier-2 issues because the wiggle room still contains some constraints. I suppose it might be helpful to distinguish tier-1 versus tier-2 for the sake of apologetics and outreach and to clarify who we believe are brothers in error and who we believe to be false professors.
Based solely on anecdotal evidence (mostly from hearing professors at school talk about church horror stories they were either involved in directly, or have had direct contact with people involved), I am of the firm opinion that more baptists churches have split over building issues (color of carpet, pew vs chair, permanent or portable baptistry, or in one story replacing old building that members built with their “own hands” thus they left to start a new church [yes that was really an example]). As such, since many would quickly place “building” issues in tier 2, I too question if such… Read more »
Bart, In theory, your proposal is interesting and may indeed have a good bit of merit. But, in practice, it is appears to me to be next to impossible to work out in a productive and edifying manner. Here are some of the minefields I foresee: 1. Identifying those who don’t hold to certain doctrines as “cults” will almost certainly be very controversial and cause some very visceral response. Will inerrancy, for example, be one of these? It is certainly among the most important of Baptist beliefs; but are we prepared to say everyone who does not subscribe to inerrancy… Read more »
Obvious that we would be in interesting times if we attempted this.
If you are not already familiar with this, here is a model proposed by C. Michael Patton that takes Mohler’s Triage model and expounds and dissects it further. His general categories make a lot of sense to me (though I am not always in agreement with which doctrines he places in those categories).
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2013/03/chart-to-help-distinguish-between-essentials-and-non-essentials/
David,
Thanks for posting this. It is very interesting. It would at least be a good exercise to have individuals develop their own such set of circles is only to gain respect for each others distinctions.
I agree with what seems to be the consensus so far in the comments: the result would probably be helpful but the process costly. Also, I think the 3rd tier section would be pretty short because most third tier issues are left out or left vague on purpose in the BF&M.
It’s an interesting thought process. I don’t see it turning into anything useful precisely because it would highlight disagreements rather–in essence–hiding them among other words that we have more agreement on.
But I think it’s fair to note that taking a committee through the process of attempting it would tell you a lot about today’s Convention through essentially a well-structured (and tiny) subset. Remember that such a committee would necessarily attract those who are most likely to exert power to protect their own agendas. You could see that process in all of its glory.
What would determine where to place something in the heirarchy? Everyone ascribes different levels of importance to the matters.
How about this–Everything God has clearly revealed is important; what he has not clearly revealed is not.
Most of the members of churches I know have no idea what the Baptist Faith and Message says. As I DOM I am on a campaign to change that. We are hoping to make the BF&M the required value to be a member of our association. Most of our members would not understand the concept of three tiers of beliefs.
Steve, From experience I know very few who know what is contained in the Baptist Faith & Message. To help combat this I developed a “101 Class” for our church that has the BF&M as required reading before the first week. We then proceed through the main elements of the Christian & Baptist faith while highlight key phrases and sentences from the BF&M. After having taught the class a few times, I would say that many who learned what it said have grown in appreciation for it. However, I agree that some tier concept would be practically lost and borederline… Read more »
I am surprised there is so little response to this post.
It ain’t 2009, is it?
I don’t think a triage would work effectively because there is too much diversity in the SBC, and too little sense of solidarity regarding tradition. There’s nothing monolithic there. Congregations, not to mention congregants, are simply far too diverse and opinionated, which is no bad thing, but certainly an obstacle to the idea.
Jon, triage is most important when there is diversity. We must distinguish what we MUST all agree on and what is open for disagreement. Must we all hold to the divinity and substitutionary atonement of Christ? I would certainly say yes. Must we all believe that Christ will rapture the church before the tribulation? (Tempted to say yes but…) Of course not.
The more diverse the SBC, the more the need for triage.
Oh, I see. Yes, well, the rapture of the church, I mean the terminology of rapture usually pertains to a premillenial view, and probably of the dispensational variety, so I wouldn’t expect to see that on any of the tiers, would you? I don’t know the percentage of dispensationalists or mere premillennialists in the SBC, but I find no scriptural or traditional basis for either. A few premillennialists existed earlier on in church history and there have always been some. Dispensationalism is far more recent and dualistic, and ignores the climax and summing up we find in Pauline theology.
You find “no scriptural basis” for the premillenial position? Let me help you, it’s Revelation 19, and 20. And as far tradition goes the historic premil position has had a number of adherents over the centuries with a significant showing among the early church fathers.
Jon,
I would love to see a SBC study on the number of people who would hold Dispensational and Premillennial views. I’d especially be interested in knowing how many of the views came after or because of personal study of all available millennial options.
I personally hold to Postmillennialism but have witnessed a rise in general Amillennialism with those who have endured my non-eschatological teaching.
Fortunately, when the end comes, your errant views will be corrected. Amen?
Dave,
If you mean “amen” as “so be it”, then I can certainly say “so be it” within the assumption of your truth that I am wrong.
If you mean “amen” as “truly”, then of course I can’t accept the truth of your statement. 🙂
I’m going to take a gander that Dave’s point is that your eschatological perspective will be tested and proven either true or false based on what Scripture actually says. And you’ll repent of whatever was wrong and confess the shortcoming while happily casting your crowns at the feet of Jesus.
Can I get an amen? 😉
Greg,
Amen! 🙂
No, I meant he’s wrong and I’m right.
Nyah Nyah Nyah!
I always give Dave credit for being the very mature person I perceive–against all prevailing evidence–that he ought to be…talking about grace-colored glasses…
I apologize to everyone for basically dropping out of the conversation. I leave Monday for Senegal, and as is usually the case, there’s a flurry of activity going on with me today.
Bring me back some of those peanuts they sell in Dakar.
Having watched our teams negotiate in the “marché,” I’d say you’re better off not having any of us buying anything for you in Senegal.
Be safe, Pastor Barber . . . may God protect you and bring you safely home again
Isn’t this about your 12th trip there this year?
No one seems to be able to explain who will determine what is central, what’s secondary, and then tertiary. Southern Baptists don’t agree enough to develop that kind of scheme. Why not go creedal? Everyone must at the very least believe the common creeds of the first few centuries, as well as a few Baptist distinctives like craedo-baptism, the Lord’s Supper, congregationalism, etc. Much easier.
Jon,
The answer to your question is simple. Who would decide what belongs in which category? The same people who, under the present system, decide what goes into the BF&M and what does not. How we make decisions as Southern Baptists is no mystery. We have an annual meeting. We register messengers. We elect officers. We appoint committees. Changes to the BF&M are generally proposed by a committee and approved by the messengers.
That’s who.
If it’s that easy, why hasn’t it been done?
The process is simple. Carrying out that process would be nuclear war!
Yes, I think so. Southern Baptists are fiercely opinionated oftentimes.
Dave,
I believe you are right. My question is how are we ever going to call whatever outcome “unity?”
Bart, why not simply adopt the creeds, the apostolic and nicene, for example, and consider that the first tier? Then have all fundamental Baptist distinictives on another tier? The rest is probably irrelevant, no?
Jon, I imagine, were this to be done, that the content of the first tier would pretty much be precisely what you have indicated: A collection of items that appeared in the historic creeds. The second tier would consist of a set of evangelical and Baptist sentiments, perhaps including a thing or two that is distinctively Southern Baptist (for example, there are free-will Baptists who are generally evangelical, but perseverance might well wind up as a tier-two doctrine in a Southern Baptist statement of faith). I’ve been surprised to read people suggesting that tier two is the major category in… Read more »
Well, that sounds right. The first tier is historic, apostolic teaching. The seocnd is denominational distinctives. What then is the third? Is there a need for one?
The third tier, according to Mohler’s framework, is everything else! I’ve argued that there is often a need for more tiers than three. Within the confines of the Southern Baptist Convention, there are matters of belief over which we probably wouldn’t expel a church, but which are nonetheless boundaries for the work of our cooperative agencies. Right now, pretty much the entirety of the BF&M is, formally considered, in that category (i.e., the convention’s organizational documents do not make any tenet of the BF&M mandatory to cooperation in the convention). Consider, for example, support of the Cooperative Program (although that’s… Read more »
I see. I suppose it eventually grows rather complicated, especially if you see a need for more than three tiers.
I wrote a series of posts here (search “Brick Walls, Picket Fences”) that delineates 4 levels of doctrine and truth.
One difficulty I have is the effect our view of so-called “second tier issues” will have on the authority of Scripture. It seems clear the apostle Paul with the full authority of God’s Spirit, refused to allow women to teach in the Church or have authority over men. Then, lest anyone should think this merely a “cultural issue,” bases his argument on creation and the fall. Adam was formed first and Eve was deceived in the transgression. This seems to be the clear and unambiguous teaching of the NT Scriptures and can only be denied by a cultural bias to… Read more »
Gracewriterrandy, I don’t think the bible stand or falls with our acceptance or rejection of one thing. We always think in terms of tiers whether or not we actually have them. There were some cultural messages but we need to grasp what’s transcultural. In the Bible wars, people often worried about all of this. I don’t think it’s the problem they imagined.
I posted a short comment earlier. I want to add to that comment an additional perspective (my pardon to Bart for the stinkbomb I’m hereby throwing): If you study the creeds, they start out simple and get more complex over time. EACH addition is precipitated by some sort of present-day (at the time of the change or addition) faith crisis. The creeds are mostly reactive documents designed to position the (then) modern believer with respect to a set of theological and doctrinal choices. The intention is to outline orthodoxy (well, at least MOST creeds are aimed at that). The explosion… Read more »
Sorry for all the distraction, Greg.
What I wanted to respond to was some of the good points you made.
Hope the conversation can get back to something fruitful.
It’s fine. Your suggestion of considering limited term for executives surprised me in a rather positive way. I was trying to figure out how to–or whether to–respond.
Where power collects it takes enormous character to avoid extracting privilege and building networks of influence. It should be a problem that especially concerns Southern Baptists…
I agree. The heads of agencies should lead their staffs toward fulfilling the objectives set by the trustees, who should publicly state the rationale for adjusting previous policy.
Leadership at “the helm” should be seasonal, not a career. The SBC entity should not be the child of the Great Leader.
Yes, SBC boards and agencies are susceptible to manipulation by a few. But the manipulation possible is minimal if the trustees are faithful Christians. In my opinion, it is rather stupid to attempt to get people who walk in the light to attempt to keep the majority in darkness.
Hi Greg, Thanks, but no thank you, brother. What is left of this canary will not re-enter that pit; his song was clearly not wanted. I would as soon lay my small feathers on the interstate as a speed-bump. I think your presentation regarding the growth of the creeds is accurate. In a sense, even the New Testament Scripture grew in a similar way: From the letter of Acts 15:28, 29, to the total writings of all the epistles. Rather than change our statement of faith by adopting a triage “form”, I think making minor changes in the administrative “form”… Read more »
” I would as soon lay my small feathers on the interstate as a speed-bump.”
I don’t think anything that drastic was ever suggested. However, if memory serves me well at this time, I do believe a suggestion was made of a trip to a place in France and a proposition was proposed for him to join the French Foreign Legion for a seven year hitch.
CB Scott
Yes, your memory serves you well. You remind me of your insults toward me that you repeated for years in the past. Now you update your insult to keep it current.
Is this how you serve our Lord Jesus Christ?
You two need to swap phone numbers and hash some stuff out.
What a marvelously simple idea, Dave. Seems so very basic for Christians.
We exchanged a coupe of emails at my initiation. CB shut it down since December 16th. I offered to talk on the phone on February 18th by email. No response at all.
I bear CB no ill will. Would like it if that cut both ways.
Jerry,
I’ve known you for over 35 years and I will vouch for your integrity and sincerity anytime — and that’s from someone with whom you did not always see eye-to-eye.
Stay true, Brother
Jerry, Insult? Do you just say stuff like that to get Dave fired up so he will kick me off the thread again and tell me not to be mean and nasty and put me back in blog prison and make me listen to Kumbaya day and night? Come on, Jerry. I was being nice and sweet to you. I would far rather you join the FFL (a finer bunch of fighting men you’ll never find), than for you to get your feathers run over by a bunch of trucks on the interstate. What kind of depressed talk is that… Read more »
CB Scott, You are just joking? It is not meant as an insult? The beginning of your humorous statements to me about moving to France and joining the Legion was in the context of your repeated public calls for me to resign from the IMB Trustees because you believed I was unworthy of service there. Your joking reference here was misunderstood by me in the context of your recent flurry of efforts to publicly confront me in disparaging ways. Perhaps you don’t remember some of the things I said. It is no bother for me to repeat them here, from… Read more »
Jerry, I will admit that the inner workings of CB Scott’s mind lie beyond my abilities of understanding. But, when I read this comment, I do believe it was meant in a light-hearted tone. I think he was trying to take some of the tension out of the mood.
Always hard to tell in blog communication, but I really think he meant this as a joke.
Dave,
I hope you are right.
I would like to hear it from him, with a substantive reply to the question: “Perhaps you can just tell me, and those who read this publicly, what is it, exactly, that you are trying to do when you engage me publicly?”
Doesn’t seem too much to ask.
“If you will kindly refrain from disparaging me, I will gladly refrain from pointing out what you are doing.” One of the finest justifications of my sin I have ever put into words. “If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another,…” Galatians 5:25, 26a No matter how I strive for accuracy in pointing out the wrong, I cannot do so perfectly. To think I can is conceit. And even if pointing out the wrong is done with commendable human accuracy, the act of pointing out… Read more »
I speak you from the mission field (all that area between Portland and Seattle inclusive). Up here these issues just don’t seem to come up. We are so occupied with just trying to reach people with the gospel we don’t seem to find the time for these other things. The three tier structure sounds very similar to what I learned from Dr. Habermas at Liberty University. Portland and Seattle are ranked as the two most unreached cities with the gospel, excuse me if I don’t get to involved in this subject matter. I agree most SBCers up in the NW… Read more »
And this is one reason I’d love to get back to the Northwest. This plus the fact that it’s the most beautiful place on this earth.
Dale and John, I agree with you that the NW is incredibly beautiful. I’ve heard those cities are hte most unchurched. Either of you happen to know the reason? Was it because it was the last settled territory, or is it a different culture, etc.? Thanks.
I can’t say that I know the reason, and I don’t know that there has been any research on it. Anecdotally, I would say that there is a strong independent spirit there, possibly finding it’s roots in the pioneer days of the area. One shouldn’t assume that the Northwest is “irreligious.” The problem is that so many are open to so many divergent viewpoints. Spirituality is honored, but it is very independent and has a strong personal flavor to it. Any appeal to “authorities” (i. e., the Bible) is usually met with derision and skepticism. The SBC in the Northwest… Read more »
News, please, Dale…
News about the new exec? Here:
http://www.gonbw.org/
Jon, Greg’s dad was a NW Baptist staff member and could most likely speak to your question more articulately than I. Has he given you any insight Greg? I’d like to hear it. If I ever do get the opportunity to return I’m sure it would be helpful.
We’ve talked about it more in the general context of the Pacific Rim–remember Dad served in Indonesia, as an associate pastor in Southern California, and in a similar role with the Hawaii Pacific convention (plus Texas and BSSB/LifeWay stints)–than just regarding the NW. I don’t think he put his finger on any one thing, THOUGH I will offer what I consider central insight into his perspective on the WHOLE thing. He loves missions. He loves being where it is a challenge. And he loves people. Serving in mission areas and “pioneer” areas just really appeals to Dad. And the Pacific… Read more »
Randy Adams served as Pastor of Fairview Baptist Church in Rhome, Texas, a few years before I served that same church family. He is a terrific guy. Northwest Baptists will be blessed by his ministry.