The audio from the sermon is now online.
Thank you for fighting and winning the war on inerrancy, but quit fighting over secondary issues to the gospel. Affection for Jesus Christ wanes where the gospel stops being primary and secondary doctrines rise up to take its place.
This was the message delivered by Matt Chandler of The Village Church (Dallas, TX) to the crowd of pastors and SBC lay leaders gathered on Tuesday at the 23rd Annual FBC Jax Pastors’ Conference.
Personally, I was surprised to see his name on the list for this year’s conference, but was happy that an exciting young pastor who I had been following on podcast would be coming near to my home where I could watch him preach. Little did I expect him to make the trip into what is at best nervous company and point the two-edged sword of the gospel right to the throat of the sacred cows of many SBC ministries.
Here’s what went down. Tuesday morning, Matt Chandler gave a session at FBC Jax which was structured to be a lesson/Q&A about how to reach the younger generation. During this time he went through his personal history and his experiences in being called to, straightening out, and growing his church, The Village in Dallas, TX. This turned out to be a nice testimony interspersed with comments about how The Village became what it is today, a rapidly growing congregation of 6000 people spread over 9 services and 2 locations.
There were a couple of interesting points in this period. First, Chandler wasted no time getting the fact that he is a Calvinist out on the table. It wasn’t in an “I’m a Calvinist and so is God” pseudo-instructing manner, but simply came out as a depiction of his theological convictions as a pastor. Also, there were a number of instances when he made comments that, though not directed at FBC Jax, could be taken as against them if someone wanted to pick a fight (and as Baptists, I think we’re always up for that). For example, Chandler said that his heart was to not spend $40 million building a new facility for his church; this being something that FBC Jax has shown tremendous ease in doing.
The last interesting remark to come out of the morning session with Matt Chandler was when he said that he is thankful to the older generation of Southern Baptists for fighting the war for inerrancy and winning, but that now they need to learn to stop fighting for secondary issues over and above simply focusing on the primary concern of the gospel. When he said this I was amazed. I have expressed similar worries in my conversations and writings, and so to hear Chandler voice them at this conference, if at nothing more than a minor session among the early-rising preachers on Tuesday, was an incredibly powerful moment to me.
However, as it turned out, that powerful moment that I felt when Chandler said this during the AM session grew into an incredible hour later on, as an elaborated version of this message was the topic for sermon that afternoon. Using the example of the church at Ephesus to illustrate (Acts 18-19, Revelation 2), Chandler talked about what happens when a formerly vibrant community of God remains biblically faithful and yet “abandon[s] the love [they] had at first” (Revelation 2.4). This, he claims, is what has happened in the SBC as church leaders have promoted secondary issues, specifically extra-biblical morality, into the primary focus of the church, to the exclusion of emphasizing the gospel’s unique power in salvation.
After using various examples and situations to hammer on this for a while, sometimes to much applause, occasionally to a reserved acknowledgment of the veracity of his statements, Chandler moved to close with the story of the Prodigal Son. He briefly overviewed the familiar parable and then focused on the last scene, with the good son standing in defiance against the celebration of the Prodigal’s return. This son stands firm against the father’s plea to come and celebrate, and in his selfishness complains that, “You never gave me a young goat!” (Luke 15.29). This, Chandler claims, is what the SBC is doing. They are crying, “We want our goat!” and then turning various moral stances and practical convictions into a goat of favor which they can use against the world saying, “Look what we’ve got. Look at how we live. Do x-y-z to be holy like us.”
It is this inversion of priorities that Chandler says is causing us to lose the younger generation from the ranks of the SBC.
When he finished with his message, my heart was racing. Seeing the way in which Chandler took a hard message from Scripture, together with his own personal experience, and drove it home, all from the stage at a flagship of SBC tradition, was an unbelievable experience. My hope is that this was a message taken to heart by the pastors and SBC leaders in attendance, and that that old familiar enemy of pride doesn’t just cause them to bull up and deflect the charges to those around them while avoiding any serious self-reflection here. Matt Chandler really went out on a limb with his message at the FBC Jax Pastors’ Conference, but he said something that needed to be put out there. I pray God can now use that to ignite change for the better within the realm of the larger SBC communion.
Sounds like a good one.
Dave Millers last blog post..I Waited Patiently…
Good for him. Do you think he’ll be invited back next year?
Les Puryears last blog post..Georgia Small Church Leadership Conference: May 6-7, 2009
Les,
If that last question was not rhetorical then my answer would be no. People were with him in the beginning, but by the time he said that in clinging to extra-biblical morality we are saying, “We want our goat,” the clapping had mostly silenced. It is kind of ridiculous that David Allen got a standing ovation for an arrogant exegeting of Hebrews 6 where he seemed more focused on bashing Calvinism than getting to the point and yet when Chandler brought home a hard message about how not to lose the future of our denomination the clapping was simply out of courtesy because it was over. Maybe that’s too harsh, but sitting in the 6th row that’s exactly what I observed.
Todd Buruss last blog post..Visitors Not Welcome?- Matt Chandler at FBC Jax Pastors’ Conference
Todd,
What older Pastors are standing in defiance of the younger son(who is this?)? And, are you saying that the so-called “BI” guys would fit into the older son analogy? If so, how? I really dont see how the Prodigal Son fits anything about the SBC.
And, this statement….”This, Chandler claims, is what the SBC is doing. They are crying, “We want our goat!” and then turning various moral stances and practical convictions into a goat of favor which they can use against the world saying, “Look what we’ve got. Look at how we live. Do x-y-z to be holy like us.” What in the world does this mean?
And, what 2nd tier doctrines do you feel are not worth fighting over? Baptism by immersion only of Believers only? Ordination of women as Pastors and Deacons? ecumenism?
David
If the Q&A and/or sermon get posted for download, someone please post a link! Thanks!
David (volfan),
If you don’t get it, no one here will be able to explain it to you.
Brent,
Maybe you can help an ignorant person like me to see it?
David
Thank you for posting this. I enjoyed your synopsis of the message and would love to hear it if it is ever posted somewhere.
Martin Pitchers last blog post..Old Business – Pastoral Growth
Will the messages from this conference be available as mp3’s?
I would be interested in listening to several of the speakers.
Trevin Waxs last blog post..David Wells’ Call for a New Reformation
David,
Keep in mind, this is a synopsis of Chandler’s message, not my own original thoughts (though I do not disagree with him on any count). Also, keep in mind that in the parable of the Prodigal son, the good son is playing the part of the Pharisees and scribes. With that, by his statement that the old guard of the SBC is saying “We want our goat,” Chandler made the point (and he did explain this) that the people are saying, “Look, we’ve been faithful for a long time, but we want to have this issue as our little niche thing that we can hold on to and glorify in.”
As far as the nature of these issues, Chandler always said “secondary,” not “second tier,” which as we all know “second tier” is full of meaning and categorizing from various Baptist theologians. By “secondary” Chandler was pointing out anything that is secondary to the primary goal of fulfilling the Great Commission through the church and its ministry. So, this does not mean questioning baptism or proper ordination (in fact, Chandler was very clear on the female leaders issue in the AM session), but covers things such as telling people not to watch rated R movies or to boycott Disney, or any of a myriad of other sacred cows of moralism that have been constructed and propped up in an extra-biblical manner. This was never mentioned, but I imagine it would also include the argument over Calvinism (but that is my reading, not his words).
I hope this clarifies it some more for you.
Todd Buruss last blog post..Visitors Not Welcome?- Matt Chandler at FBC Jax Pastors’ Conference
Todd,
It does.
Thanks.
David
Todd- Thanks so much for offering your opinion on what issues Chandler may be referring to. Some of the readers may not be familiar enough with him to know what he considers secondary issues.
I heard Chandler preach many times when I was in college in Abilene, TX, where he led a weeknight Bible study. It’s good to see that he has been true to biblical preaching through the years and been blessed with the growth he’s seen at his church.
Sandras last blog post..ReRun: Purpose of Prayer
aS LONG AS THE OLD VANGUARD IS IN PLACE, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.
thanks for the great article. just plugged ya on my twitter. my dad preached at the conference the day before. he preached a similar message to Chandler’s at the convention a couple of years back. wish i could have been there.
do you know if these message are going to be available anywhere?
1. I’m thrilled to hear this coming from an SBC leader (young or otherwise).
2. What did he mean by “extra-biblical morality”?
Bradleys last blog post..:: Quotations :: Karl Barth on Roman Catholicism
Bradley,
He mentioned things like telling people not to watch R-rated movies (unless they’re about Jesus *wink*), discouraging dancing, and stuff like that. Basically he meant the common legalisms you can find in any Baptist church where people look down on you for partaking in it, call you worldly, and then when pressed for a verse come up with something lame like “Your body is a temple,” etc. At this point I don’t recall if he mentioned the alcohol issue. I don’t think he did since he didn’t get lynched or have his SBC funding threatened, but I can’t imagine this is too far off the mark of what he meant either.
Todd Buruss last blog post..New Tools for the Search Party- A Review of “Lost and Found” by Ed Stetzer (part 2)
I’ve been in SBC churches all my 60+ years and I thougth we had moved past being someone’s conscience. Is it not the Holy Spirit’s job to convict a person of thou shalt not and even more important you have no power without Me. I do remember hearing Bro. John of FBC Houston saying he would never see a R rated movie again and this is later in his life and I never once remember any condemning remarks from him only the word for word line upon line teaching of God’s word. That’s what will change a person and he many times challenged me to be disciplined in my walk before God and others. I’m grateful during those twenty years of being a member of this SBC church I grew in leaps and bounds for a love for God’s word. To me that has always been the mark of the SBC a love for rightly dividing the word. And now I have the privilege of teaching others to fall in love with God’s word in a cross culture setting. Saying hey, I don’t know all the answers to life’s questions but I do know the One who does, let’s discovery these truths together, ok?
First, I well know that the older brother had a wrong, sinful attitude. He should have been rejoicing at the return of the his younger, prodigal brother.
Second, God is gracious and none of us are deserving. The repentant younger brother was blessed beyond measure for the rest of his days, although he also had to deal with the consequences of his sinful behavior. Remember, forgiveness and consequences are separate issues.
But, did the older brother ever get that goat?
Most do not notice a brief phrase Jesus spoke in Luke 15:31. In the story, it is the father speaking to the older brother, “All that I have is yours.”
Apparently the younger brother had used up his inheritance. The older brother still had his. Maybe he got that goat after all.
David R. Brumbelow
I find it odd, well maybe not so odd, that Dr. Jerry Vines message has been posted on FBC-Jax website but not Pastor Chandler’s.
Hhhhhmmmmm……… sets one to thinking, huh?
Sadly in our denomination there is a growing movement to silence and purge those who “don’t look and sound like them”.
FBC-JAX should have the courage to post Bro. Chandlers sessions for all to hear, even if they disagree with some or all of what he said.
The Dr. Vines, Pattersons and Allens of the SBC world should learn Augustines maxum: In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.
vr
Terry Thomas
Amen to that Terry. Indeed, I find it pathetic.
I wish I could have been there to hear Mr. Chandler. I did hear Mark Driscoll at SEBTS two weeks ago. It seems that God is beginning to raise up a strong, evangelistic, sovereign grace ministry in this age. For sure such was the origin of the SBC and its great mission effort. The past two Sundays I had the privilege of preaching in one of the original arms of the Sandy Creek Baptist Church. It was named Haw River…then Rock Springs. At one time Haw River had six preaching points or as they say today, six campuses. This arm of Sandy Creek Church grew out of the ministry of Shubal Stearns around 1758, was constituted as a church in 1764. Its first pastor, Elnathan Davis was converted under Stearns and pastored the church for about 34 years. In 1765 Shubal Stearns preached there for 6 services in one week and had 700 in attendance with about 28 professions of faith, 18 of which were baptized. In 1801 they experienced the Second Great Awakening. One source stated that they were supposed to have 500 conversions on one Sunday morning under the preaching of the pastor of Abbott’s Creek Church, Elder George Pope. In 1816 a young convert (he was 18) went as a delegate to the Sandy Creek Assn, where he was elected as clerk and served on the committee which drew up the Sandy Creek Confession of that year (under the leadership of the committee, Rev. Luther Rice who stated in his memoirs, “predestination is in the bible and you had bettter preach it.”). In 1818 the young man was licensed to preach by Rock Springs Church and moved to South Carolina to go to school. In 1826 he was called as pastor of the FBC of Charleston, SC. In 1836 in the Southrn Baptist Intelligencer, he would suggest the need for a southwide seminary. In 1857 and 1858 he would serve on he committee to establish Southern Seminary. His son would draw up the Abstract of Principles which bears comparison with the Sandy Creek Confession of 1816 as well as te London Confession of 1689/ Philadelphia Assn. of 142. The first President of Southern Seminary would be a preacher boy from the FBC of Charleston; he had laid his hand on that preacher boy, when the latter was abut 10 yrs. of age and say he would be a preacher someday. The man who suggested the founding of seminary woul be elected as th first President of the Board of Trustees. When he died the President of the Seminary, Dr. James Petigru Boyce, would preach his funeral. And in his sermon Dr Boyce would say without equivocation that Dr. Basil Manly, Sr., was a calvinist, that he was a Christian gentleman and would never use mean and hateful methods to force someone to accept his theology. He was, indeed, willing to discuss the teachings calmly and compassionately. This is the source of the Calvinism in the SBC. From my many years of research into Baptist History I came to the conclusion that the Sovereign Grace Doctrines as the truths of Holy Scripture were blessed of God in conjunction with the Sovereign Presence to produce the First and Second Great Awakenings and the Great Century of Missions (Dr. Latourette’s term). As I mulled over these facts for years and assimilated them with facts from other sources, I came to the conclusion that these were the teachings that were the most intensely evangelistic and missionary of all of the biblical teachings of the Christian Faith, that an understanding of such doctrines and the application of them in the right manner in conjunction with prayer, would and could produce a Third Great Awakening that might be the one which would win the whole earth in one generation and even for a thousand generations (after all the promises to Abraham are so tremendous as to numbers that the comparisons with numbering the stars and the sand by the seashore virtually call for such a thing). From theology and other fields of study I began to work out the details of how this might be implemented. For example, the statement by Dr. Eusedin in his introduction to his translation of William Ames’ Marrow of Divinity that “Predestination is an invitation to begin one’s spiritual pilgrimage,” an my knowledge from history and counseling about paradoxical intervention led me to realize that Jesus actually preached such teachings to his audiences. The Syro-phonecian woman of Canaan heard Him say, “I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel” and that it was not right to “cast the childen’s bread to dogs.” Great vistas of possibilities opened up for me, especially when I took these facts together with a change in eschatology. That occurred, when the wisest man I ever met said to me, “Have you ever thought about the fact that at any one time every last soul on the face of the earth could be the elect of God?” I answered, “No, I had never thought about it.” 6-7 years later as I was sitting in my office at the Gum Springs Baptist Church of Moncure, NC, I was looking at Jonah 3 and thinking about the old king’s question, “Who can tell?” as well as Jonah’s message of gloom and doom, when it hit me like a ton of bricks: His prophecy was unconditionally stated, and it did not come to pass as it prophesied. That meant it was not necessarily the statement of a prophecy, but the purpose for which God gave it that made the difference. Here then is the theological secret of the next Great Awakening, THE GREATEST OF ALL????? God grant that it should be so, and we can plead the promises to that effect which were pleaded at the beginning of the the Great Century of Missions and and the Second Great Awakening. Those promises, about a hundred of them, are listed in Jonathan Edwards’ Humble Attempt, Vol. II of his Works, Banner of Truth, p. 283. That is why I have prayed for 36 years for such awakening. Interestingly enough, there were times when I often mentioned great cities in other states and countries. When I heard about Mark Driscoll and his 8000 members in Seattle in a brief period of time (the past 9-10 yrs?), my heart wondered, “Could this be evidence of the coming answer to such prayers?” I hope so, and I urge others to join in such effort…for the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and the good of all of our neighbors on the face of this earth. The greatest legacy we could leave to our children and grandchildren and to all of our neighbors on the face of the earth and to the glory of our Lord and Savior is a legacy of prayer for the whole earth to be won by kind persuasion with the slightest hint of force other than that of love freely given with open hands and open hearts pleading in supplication to God for such a visitation. Mr. Spurgeon, the great Sovereign Grace preacher of the 19th century in his Evening Devotions for August 8th & December 24th prayed for every soul on earth. Surely we can do no less. Indeed, we must. After all, Who knows but that right now ever last soul on the face of the earth could be the elect of God. One professor declared that Spurgeon once prayed, “O Lord, Elect some more!” Knowing his penchant for humor, I would not be surprised. And I think the Lord would answer, “Charles, I have already done that.” And Charles would say, “I know it, but I just want to see you glorified by as many as possible.” Then I think they would cry and laugh together in the great joy that God brings to make up for our awful griefs in this world.
Todd,
This is an interesting post, as I work for the FBC as a BCM Director. This is something I deal with all the time. I’ve been struggling with “secondary” issues with college students as they haven’t seen action matching words based on these issues. I’d really like to hear this message. Also, you mentioned that Matt Chandler gets SBC funding? is this true? Is the Village an SBC church?
Thanks for your post!
Rahuls last blog post..Reaching Collegians
Matt’s messages from conferences, including FBC Jax will be posted to The Village website soon.
Rahul,
Thank you for your testimony to this issue. As for The Village and the SBC, I may have overstepped in making it sound like they get SBC funding; I’m not sure if they do or not. I was more making an allusion to the events in Missouri where churches of a similar philosophy as Matt’s (i.e. Acts 29 churches) had their Missouri Baptist Convention funding cut. The Village is definitely SBC though. They are dual affiliated with the SBC and with Acts 29, just like The Journey in St. Louis, Sojourn in Louisville, The Summit in Durham, and several others.
Todd Buruss last blog post..What We Believe- Article VI, The Church (part 2)
It shouldn’t be surprising that FBC Jax didn’t post the .mp3 audio. The J316 conference showed Arminians don’t do free audio. Haha… just kidding (halfway…). I’ll check Chandler’s site for it in a few more days.
I am pleading with the current leaders of the SBC to share their resources online for free.
Many of us would enjoy listening!
http://trevinwax.com/2009/02/19/a-plea-to-the-current-leadership-of-the-sbc/
Trevin Waxs last blog post..A Plea to the Current Leadership of the SBC
Help me understand something. If a Christian is following scripture and heeding the example Paul set when he said, “Therefore I always exercise and discipline myself [mortifying my body, deadening my carnal affections, bodily appetites, and worldly desires, endeavoring in all respects] to have a clear (unshaken, blameless) conscience, void of offense to God and toward men.” Acts 24:16 Amplified, then that Christian is as the elder son? Is subject to fostering a Pharisee’s mindset? Is following after a man’s agenda rather than God’s? To die daily to self, is no longer something we should be teaching new Christians? To decrease that He might increase is archaic and obsolete thought? Perhaps I misunderstand the shepherd of The Village Church and the synopsis of his sermon given here today? selahV
selahVs last blog post..MARKETING SHOCK AND AWE CHRISTIANITY OR…
You are right at first, that initially, one who is dying to self in the manner of Paul is acting as the good son. However, the good son goes off course at the end in his envy, asking to be repaid for his long-time obedience. Such a desire is not in the example of Paul, it is the example of the Pharisee who wants their reward today instead of in heaven (think about the Beatitudes here). So, Chandler’s point was that the old guard has been faithful for a long time, to which he thanked them since it led them to fight and win the battle for inerrancy, but now many of them have become like the older son in demanding their goat, seeking earthly reward for their earthly obedience, making an idol out of some point of their morality and seeking to benefit from their adherence to it instead of doing all things simply to glorify God. Hopefully this clarifies it for you some.
Todd Buruss last blog post..The Sin of the 1950’s Mindset- Defining the Worldliness of Tradition
Hello Todd,
I’m afraid I do not see the “goat some are demanding”. Can you be specific? What “earthly reward” are “they seeking for their earthly obedience”? It seems to me, for the past few years I’ve been reading about all this hubbabaloo, the folks crying for a “goat of their own”, are far removed from “the old guard” and their alleged intentions. What “idol” have they made for “their morality”? Why does preaching morality make it an idol?
I for one, am reminded how very far I am from the top of the morality pedastal each time I write or speak or hear about the morality my Lord commands of me in setting aside my selfish desires and evil intentions. I know some of the men of whom you speak, and I find their desires far more in line with scripture than many of their rivals. When men–old guard or new–preach, admonish and exhort to follow the Word of God, I have a difficult time imagining that being considered idol worship. Nay, it is honoring the King, and living in a manner that would allow us to be the “light” He has called us to be. Otherwise, we might just as well hide it beneath the bushel basket at the bottom of the hill.
How do you determine that the old guard is adrift from “doing all things simply to glorify God”?
And thanks, it did clarify your position a bit more. selahV
selahVs last blog post..MARKETING SHOCK AND AWE CHRISTIANITY OR…
http://hv.thevillagechurch.net/studies-seminars
here is the message referenced.
I don’t believe anyone referenced this: Chandler’s “Prodigal Son” illustration comes from the pages of Timothy Keller’s “The Prodigal God.” Keller differentiates between the younger brother and the elder brother. I won’t dive into the book here, but it’s definitely worth reading. Chandler simply integrates Keller’s illustration into the SBC. For what it’s worth, I think Chandler (and Keller) are spot on.