At the end of January I start my fifteenth class towards my M.Div at Southern Seminary. I’ve done everything from Systematic Theology, Introductions to the Old and New Testaments, Church History, Greek, and Hebrew. A few classes were considered “on campus” because, apart from the online portion, I had to travel to Louisville for a week of lectures.
Pay the SBC rate, which is half tuition. I also pay a $250 internet course fee per class. I don’t have to pay the fee for on campus classes, and depending on where I sleep and what I eat, the cost isn’t must different either way. It’s just a matter of deciding whether or not I can afford to take that much time off work for something other than a relaxing vacation.
I took my first online course as an undergraduate student at Ferris State University back in 2006 or 2007 and lost my 4.0 to a lousy A-minus. Since then, I’ve taken probably 20 or so classes that were all or mostly online. A lot has changed in nine years. Some things haven’t changed at all. If you’ve never taken an online course, or if you’ve been wary of them because of phony degree mills, you might want to read on. If you’ve taken online classes, I’m sure you can identify with what follows, and I welcome your comments with your unique experiences as well. Here’s what I’ve discovered about online learning:
It’s harder than traditional classroom instruction. Perhaps that 4.0-shattering A-minus has colored my perspective on this, but in the nine years of online coursework I’ve had, I’ve never found online classes easy. Even week-long accelerated courses with online coursework are easier than fully online classes. Here’s why:
- There’s always more reading involved. What we lose in face-to-face time always seems to be accounted for in face-to-page time. “Read these six books in their entirety.”
- There’s always more homework. Professor’s don’t always know how to make up for the lost face-to-face time, so they like to pile on mandatory discussion forums, reading logs, additional journal articles to read, book reports/reviews, weekly quizzes, and more. The stigma that online learning is not as legitimate as classroom learning makes professors, perhaps without realizing it, pile on the homework.
- It’s less personal. Consider how easy it is to fling mud and act rude when writing blogs or comments on blogs because we don’t know the people we’re conversing with. Like it or not, professors are not wholly objective when grading research papers and other qualitative assignments. Imagine a professor who is grading two research papers. The one is by a student he remembers for his smile and kind manner. The other is by a student he remembers for misspelling “Professor Hinkle” as “Professor Hinkel”. They’re papers are decent, but not outstanding. One gets a B, the other gets a B-. That’s just the way it is.
Instruction has gotten better. Instruction in my first online class consisted of assigned readings, a group project, and a class discussion forum. Now my classes actually have video recordings, and some of the better professors add bits of humor and personal stories to make it feel more like a classroom than a safety in the workplace training video. Most professors are very knowledgeable about their fields of study. Few have received much training in facilitation, adult learning styles, or course design. Fortunately, it seems like either they are getting better training, or they are tapping the professors who are better at it to do the lecturing.
Interaction could be improved. There are still online discussion forums, but professors are finding new ways to make them interesting, such as having to find information for other students’ research papers or requiring responses to other students’ posts. However, most of the time interaction with the professor is limited to a series of video lectures and an email here or there, and most of the time those emails are directed to the PhD candidate garret fellows. In the future, I’d like to see more real-time interaction like a Google+ Hangout once or twice a semester where students can write or call in to ask the professor questions. I’m surprised none of my professors have done this yet, but I mention it on all of my end-of-semester student surveys, so I’m still hopeful. One professor I had required us to schedule a time with him to call and talk for fifteen to thirty minutes just to get to know each other better and to discuss the class, ministry, or other subjects. It was one of the better classes I’ve taken.
It takes self-discipline. Getting to an 8:00 am class on time three times a week requires one type of self-discipline. Watching three lectures at your convenience requires another type. It’s easy to put off watching lectures, reading books, writing papers, and taking quizzes when you have all week or all semester to do them. Between work, family, church, and whatever other activities I may be involved in, carving out the time to get my homework done is difficult, especially when I don’t have to do it right now.
That’s all for now, and it ended up longer than I initially thought it would be. What are your experiences? What are your thoughts or questions? Share them in the comments below.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I just started another online class as well. You’re right, there’s more reading and more homework. I usually have a weekly forum posting that is really a mini-research paper complete with direct quotes, paraphrasing and cited sources. It’s very convenient because I can work on my class whenever and wherever I want. There are weekly suspendes to meet as well.
I will say that being able to study for a couple of hours and then immediately take the exam is one aspect of online education that is easier. Having a test on campus at 8 am means a serious time gap between studying and putting pencil to paper.
Hi Andrew. Very good description.
I just finished my first semester of MDiv work at SEBTS online and I live in Mississippi. I am familiar with online instruction as a I have a MS in Civil Engineering that I completed online. Last semester I took Hermeneutics and Greek 1.
It sounds like Southeastern may be doing a little bit better overall, but I can still attest to online learning being harder and much less personal. My primary objection to the way Southeastern is doing it is that they use pre-recorded lectures from previous semesters for the online class. Thus, you are both geographically and chronologically removed from the campus. They are referencing chapel messages and conferences that happened before I even was a student at Southeastern. I probably wouldn’t be so sensitive to it if it weren’t for the fact that in my engineering classes the online class was the same as the on-campus class. They recorded the professor each week and uploaded the lecture to the web the same day. The professor adjusted the online deadlines to account for the minor lag, but basically everyone followed the same schedule and had the same requirements.
Also, just so everyone is aware, Southeastern’s pricing structure seems to be better than Southern’s. Online and on-campus students pay exactly the same to register for courses. There is no online fee and the semester registration fee is the same for everyone. So this cuts out the $250 online course fee that Southern applies. Hopefully Southern will consider doing something similar next year.
If anyone has any questions about my experience at SEBTS I’d be glad to elaborate.
Andrew,
I am taking my first online class at NOBTS. We also have the extra fee that is not added to regular classes. I have been taking what NOBTS calls hybrid classes which are a hybrid between online and in-class courses. In a hybrid class, the students meet once a month for 4 hours. The rest of the work is done or turned in online. A lot of what you say applies to hybrid classes. I find taking languages in a hybrid setting to bring special challenges.
Good thoughts.
Mark,
I took both Greek classes online, and the Hebrew I did (and will finish this semester) as a Modular course. It’s the same as the online course, but there are two days on campus around mid-semester to do drills. Greek wasn’t too hard for me, but I would have despaired of Hebrew if it hadn’t been for the on campus portion where I realized I was actually doing as good or better than most of the class.
I think the courses that are most difficult to do in an online setting are the language classes. I tell my wife that seminary will be a breeze once Hebrew is out of the way.
Andrew,
Be encouraged! Are you already in pastoral work or are you going into it after Seminary?
wilbur
Wilbur,
I have a full time job working for the Government, but I was recently called as a part-time Associate Pastor. I’m grateful for the experience. I’m able to pay for seminary and raise a family without depending on the support of others (beyond the lower tuition rate paid for with CP dollars). I also get a lot of real world experience, both at church and work.
I am a professor at a private university. I have taught online and hybrid classes for several years. Right now I am doing what is known as a “flipped class”, where the lecture consists of a audio-narrated powerpoint which is listened to outside of class, and the students come to class to do the homework.
Proactive students generally excel at online classes. They can go back over the lectures as much as they want, and they aren’t reticent to contact the professor if they need help. Online classes are hardest on the procrastinator. They end up trying to cram things in at the last minute.
For the professor, the initial offering of an online class is a tremendous amount of work, and subsequent offerings are less work as long as the material remains relevant.
I can remember when some of my professor friends were so excited about going to online classes. Boy, did they get a wake up call. They said it took 4x the amount of time than teaching an actual physical class.
It was bad for me because I could no longer use them as trainers. They had NO time! And the same pay, btw.
I’m fully online at RBS. Semester fee is $450 if you break it up into monthly payments and $60 a semester hour. It’s that inexpensive because it’s low overhead. I wouldn’t be able to afford the online classes from a brick-and-morter school, much less being able to pick up and move close enough to attend classes, so I’m not being drawn away from the classroom. I’m a student who would otherwise not be taking coursework at all.
I haven’t encountered video lectures yet as such, but the lectures I have had were recorded in the classroom. So I can hear class discussion and everything. The nice thing is being able to speed up or slow down the playback as well as go back and re-listen to portions of the lectures. So far I have been given contact information for the professor who lectured as well as the instructor for the online class.
It does take a certain discipline to listen to lectures, work through Greek lessons, study for exams, etc. However, it is nice to have a flexible schedule for doing so. You just have to work to manage time. All classes have an ordered task listing that allows you to go at your own pace. However, many of them are also linked to a schedule to help keep you on track with deadlines for completion of each task.
Is RBS, Reformed Baptist Seminary?
Yes it is.
Cool, I was just wondering. I actually thought about taking classes there at one time.
Is there any data on the graduation rate for online M.Div. students? Has anybody actually graduated who has taken online courses from start to finish? Before declaring online seminary to be the savior of seminary I think that we should first wait for the graduation rates to emerge.
The M.Div. program at SBTS consists of 34 courses (36 if you count the Cooperative Program course and the Written Communications course I was required to take for making a C in undergraduate English). If a student were to take one course per semester that would require 17 years to graduate! If he added a winter and summer course it would only take 9 years, but that is still almost a decade of study! Also, I wonder what impact this prolonged M.Div. schedule will have on D.Min. and PhD programs down the road.
My background: I am an online M.Div. student at SBTS. I have 57 credit hours and am 13 courses short of graduation. I first enrolled in the Spring of 2006 after completing a tour of duty in Iraq. God had not yet called me into the ministry, but I decided to take a few classes just in case He did. It was also helpful that I still had some GI Bill eligibility left. I was able to obtain 14 credit hours before marrying and moving on to other things.
Fast forward to the Spring of 2010 when I accepted the call to the ministry. I began a three year elder candidate process under the direction of my Senior Pastor and immediately resumed my seminary training online. I was grateful for the 14 hours that I had already earned. Since then I take one to two sources each semester. Along the way I have completed several campus J-term and hybrid courses.
I am now married with four children under six, hold an engineering project manager position, serve as a bi-vocational pastor at my local church. In this roll I teach adult Sunday school, preach occasionally, counsel members, and help to manage the administrative affairs of the church. This path towards a M.Div. has its challenges, including loneliness and a drawn out schedule. It also has great benefits for my family such as not having to move them away from our loved ones. Lord willing, I will be able to graduate debt free and remain at the church that I love serving.
If I push myself and my family very hard I will be able to graduate by the end of 2017. I started seminary at 27 years. Lord willing, I will graduate at 38. It is encouraging to know there are others like Andrew who has chosen a similar path. It would provide further encouragement to hear testimonies of those who have actually graduated. The problem is, I don’t actually know anybody who has already done so. Do you?
I don’t have the stats but Liberty has graduated thousands of MDIV students who were completely online.
I finished mine online, but I started in person. Got 20 hours that way, and wrapped the rest online.
I took more than one class at a time, though. I took at least 12 hours a semester.
As an adjunct for Liberty (undergrad program), knowing what I know about the online program, I would jump at taking this path for school if I were entering college / seminary. One thing I do know is that Liberty is on top of making an online education work.
I am not so sure of our seminaries and personally would think long and hard about the school if the seminary did not offer the full degree program I wanted online.
I have a Liberty online masters student in the church I pastor here in the middle east. She loves it and will finish in December.
These are some pretty accurate thoughts. I am currently doing my MDIV online with Liberty. I also work for their online department and speak with literally hundreds of students in online programs every month.
Most will give very similar thoughts to this post.
I was in the first graduating class in counseling at Liberty University’s School of Lifelong Learning, which they then called LUSLL. I began in Jan ’86 and graduated in Jan ’88. Our online learning then was done by video tapes of the professors lectures which were mailed to the student. I took my exams at the office of our local County School Administration where one of my Deacons then served as Associate Superintendent. It was the hardest degree I ever earned. My wife thought I was going to have a heart attack before I finished. Mind you, I had a real standard of comparison for that degree: I had earned four other degrees and had done 18 hrs. toward the Ph.D. in history, attending some nine schools, all the way from a small Baptist college (now a University) to an Ivy League University. The only degree in which I demonstrated any real accomplishments was the M.A. in American Social and Intellectual History. My GPA for that degree was a 3.7. In any case, the work was far more difficult for the graduate degree in counseling due to a lack of background courses one normally has in a bachelor’s program. Maintaining a B average was required, and I had to struggle to do it. At the end of the program I had about 9-10 months before I took the exam required of all counselors for working in the schools of North Carolina. There is where it paid off: The required score at that time was 490, and I made a 560. I also took the exam for recognition by the American Association of Mental Health Counselors (the organization has another name, but it slips my memory now); it would be the exam that allowed me later to become a Licensed Professional Counselor, one of the first thousand in North Carolina. Here my other degrees paid off in one section of the test, namely, in the score for multiculturalism. I was 25-30 points above the median. Another way in which the degree earned in that manner paid off was to quicken my ability to recognize and perceive the value of other possible venues of therapy. For example, having skim read about 50 pages in a book on EDM (Eye Desensitization Movement) in 1996, I was able in 2001 to see the possible value of that therapy (which was at the last account I had rated number one in the VA for the treatment of veterans suffering from PTSD resulting from the ordeal of battle) for a situation which my son had referred to me for treatment. In that case it worked. I wanted to go farther and get a Ph.D., but unemployment and a lack of funds stopped me in my tracks. Also I learned the very hard lesson that there are people who don’t want you in a job or in a church, and they have the power to keep you from securing such opportunities. Why God allowed this terrible suffering, I cannot say. The hardest thing to face in many ways is to know you have the wherewithal and then not to be able to exercise it in a gainful manner.