It wasn’t that long ago that Baptist churches were marked by five key services a week – Sunday School, Morning Worship, Training Union, Evening Worship and Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting. Training union was the first to enter the endangered species list, and Sunday night worship is not far behind. I would guess that Sunday night worship is now held at a minority of Baptist churches, but I’ve not seen statistical evidence on that. Certainly, it is true in Iowa.
Wednesday night prayer meeting may be the next on that list.
I am just wondering, as a discussion question, what you do at your church on Wednesday night. We have a children’s ministry (our own creation, based on Children Desiring God materials and some other things woven in), Youth ministry, and for the adults, we have a prayer time followed by a Bible study. We have a handful for prayer at 6:30 and a slightly larger handful for Bible study at 7. Neither is a large group.
What do you do?
- A worship service with music and preaching, like Sunday, but scaled back a little?
- A prayer service?
- Bible study?
- Nothing?
If you have prayer time, have you found a way to move beyond the “please pray for Aunt Hattie’s ingrown toenail” kind of prayer service?
Tell us what you are doing (and whether it is effective.)
We have a meal together, followed by corporate worship. Then, kids go to AWANA, youth go to their activities and Bible Study, and adults have a Bible Study. The youth and adults then break into small groups where they discuss the larger study and pray for each other.
We have almost as many on Wednesday night as we have on Sunday morning – sometimes more because we have a lot of young families that tend to be out of town on weekends a lot. It is huge and lasts from 5pm to almost 8pm.
We really decided to amp it up and make it a midweek service with worship, teaching, and small groups. Prayer happens, but it is not the old prayer meeting where everyone prays together for 45 minutes from a prayer sheet. It is more of people praying for each other. Lots of discipleship happens at this point.
It is probably my favorite thing that we do.
I have struggled with Wednesday evening prayer time for my entire ministry. Attendance has been in steady decline, so I try to do things to increase attendance. But I have discovered that the only way to increase attendance is to make the substance of the time something other than prayer. If “all we do” is pray, attendance will be few. If we “do something” like Bible study, then attendance might be larger.
Currently, we are doing “stations of prayer.” I develop a prayer guide for each night of prayer that guides us through prayer stations. Stations vary, but they include prayer focuses like praying for the lost, missionaries, personal confession of sin, praise and thanksgiving, various ministries of the church, the physically ill, the grieving, etc. My hope is to engage people in actual prayer and to do less talking about prayer.
Attendance has not changed much, but I do think what we are doing is more a “house of prayer” than what we have done in the past.
BTW: AWANA and student ministry are happening at the same time, so much of our numbers are in those other areas.
Todd says: I have struggled with Wednesday evening prayer time for my entire ministry. Attendance has been in steady decline, so I try to do things to increase attendance. But I have discovered that the only way to increase attendance is to make the substance of the time something other than prayer. If “all we do” is pray, attendance will be few. If we “do something” like Bible study, then attendance might be larger.
Dave says: I see the same thing. The least favorite activity is prayer. Is that a heart problem or a problem with the way we pray, or a little of both?
Perhaps a little of both.
As some have said in the comments, I find that many don’t like to pray aloud or pray in groups. This is why I have gone the personal prayer route. Give people a prayer guide and turn them loose. I sure enjoy it much more, and prayer takes on new depth.
Problem with the way we pray? I think there may be an element of this, but I think the big issue lies elsewhere…
Problem with the heart? Bingo. But on two distinct accounts: We don’t enjoy praying. Granted. But I think the even greater failing falls on this: Few people offer the requests that are REALLY worth praying for. We have to lay ourselves bare with our brothers and sisters, talking about our spiritual struggles, battles with temptation, witnessing efforts, etc. Yes, we should pray without ceasing (1 Thess. 5:17) about all things (Phil. 4:6), but just take a quick sampling of what Paul prayed about in his letters. The list looks something like this:
-My faith / Your faith
-My love / Your love
-My joy / Your joy
-My peace / Your peace
-My capacity to endure suffering / Your capacity to endure suffering
-That whether I/you live or die, all glory and honor would be rendered to God
-That God would deliver us in the midst of our battles with temptation
etc.
And then a quick sampling of the majority of our prayer meetings:
-Thelma’s liver
-Joe lost his job, needs money
-Harold’s heart
-“Traveling mercies” for Jim’s family as they travel to visit relatives
-Margaret’s friend’s daughter (who lives 3 states away and no one has ever met) is going to be a teenage mom
^These things are worth praying for (as is everything). But when things like constitute the entirety of our prayer times together, how easy is it for us to burn out on it? Perhaps part of the issue is the format. Some things are more easily shared in groups of 5 people than 100. And it is easier for 5 to commit to pray for one another over the course of the week (over big-prayer-worthy issues) than it is for anyone to attempt to remember to pray for 3 dozen different body part requests.
Just some thoughts…
David, good thoughts.
I think we have this sensibility from the world that says that it’s okay if I ask for prayer for some physical ailment. That’s not really my fault so it’s not a personal failing.
But especially in the church, we don’t want to offer up sin struggles because we perceive that A) It’s a sign of weakness, and B) Other people will judge us harshly instead of helping us overcome. The good church members, we think, are those who never sin (except to admit to it theoretically because they are really humble people). If we are struggling with sin, then we aren’t fit to be in church with the “good people”. Too often that’s the atmosphere we encounter. The body is easier to ask prayer for than the spirit. They can’t bring you a casserole or a bucket of chicken unless someone is in the hospital. So what are they supposed to do with someone who is struggling with temptation?
“Just… well… don’t do it! Something must be wrong with you. I can’t be seen with you or someone will ask if I’m struggling too and I don’t want to look like I have a spiritual problem. Go talk to the pastor. Just don’t involve me.”
The sad thing is that prayer too often doesn’t enter into it.
Dave,
What I dislike about the way prayer is typically done is bowing my head and trying to think of the right thing to say. My mind doesn’t stay in one place long enough and I’m frustrated trying to focus on something that Isn’t in front of me at the moment and keep my mind from wandering when someone else is offering up the words. My prayer at that time is usually, “Lord, forgive me for not being able to pay attention. I’m trying. Really.”
My normal mode of prayer is as I’m going along in my everyday life as I respond to what’s going on is a few lines of prayer here, a few lines of prayer there. If you ask me to pray for you after you’ve already laid something on me, I already have. If I perceive that it will help you out, I’ll grab you and bow my head with you for a moment in audible prayer. That’s probably not the most disciplined way of doing prayer, but I get more meaningful stuff lifted up to God that way… and I get more immediate direction from God as I ask him what to do in one circumstance or another and the truth of what I know from the Bible comes to bear in my head.
Jim,
I struggle with the same issues of staying focused on the Lord for extended prayer. I also practice the same “on-the-go-pray-without-ceasing” that you describe.
I don’t think it can be only the latter and not the former.
Jesus did say, “Can you not watch with me for ONE HOUR.”
Personally, I am trying to–almost desperately–spend up to an hour at a time at least once a day and two 45 minute sessions twice a day. I am not as successful as I would like. I often get to the point of just wanting to give up.
For me, prayer is a synonym for “struggle.”
Jim,
I just want to follow up with something that further frustrates my efforts in spending a large portion of my ministry in prayer (Acts 6).
Many, maybe most, of my congregation do not put a high premium on me praying–unless of course they have a personal need. They put more value on me “having cookies and coffee” with seniors (and I have many seniors in my church), or “having committee meetings and such. The “visible,” practical stuff of ministry.
I’m trying to teach (by precept and example) that the most important way I can serve the church is to pray and meditate on the Word of God (Acts 6). I must say, after several years, this is catching on.
If you haven’t read EM Bounds on Prayer (several volumes occasionally available in one volume), I would say it has been very helpful. Nearly every sentence is a sermon worth of teaching on prayer. It is incredible.
Thanks, Frank.
I certainly don’t want to say that we as Christians shouldn’t pray together publicly. I just think it’s odd that the struggle wouldn’t be with desire as much as with mental or physical limitations.
I agree with the importance of the prayer life of a pastor. I’ve taught pastors in India that prayer is key for hermeneutics and homiletics alike. My own struggle with the Word is to eliminate what I want it to say. My big struggle with preaching and teaching is making it understandable to the people I’m seeking to serve. So I seek God in both his revelation and his people. I win that struggle when I submit to God in these places in prayer for he wins that struggle for me.
I’ll have to keep my eye out for the EM Bounds work. Sounds like a good read.
Good words, Jim. That’s encouraging for me.
I try to remember that my struggles are really not all that unique, especially when it comes to prayer, “private and public.”
I’ve come to accept that it is better to “pray imperfectly than not pray at all.” It is humbling to struggle so much even after 35 years in ministry — but humility isn’t such a bad thing.
I serve as pastor of a semi-rural church on the outskirts of town. We draw suburban and rural dwellers. We have a dinner at 5:30 p.m. followed at 6:30 p.m. by a Children’s Ministry activity (modeled after Team Kids), a Youth worship rally, and Choir practice. The remaining adults attend the Bible study/prayer meeting. At the prayer meeting, we begin with some congregational singing, I lead a 25-30 minute Bible study followed by prayer request and a time of corporate praying. I suppose this qualifies as the more traditional motif. I have found over the years that very few adults feel comfortable praying aloud, even in smaller prayer circles. I’ve tried conducting special training on how to pray aloud in public, but few people want to grow in that area. What a shame. So, we deal with people where they are.
We are looking to eliminate our Sunday evening worship due to lack of attendance. The people have voted with their feet a long time ago and attendance at Sunday evening worship is no longer a factor in choosing leaders from among the membership.
Dave,
On Wednesday nights, We begin with a song, announcments, then we have prayer requests, both spoken and unspoken, this gives everyone an opportunity to speak their heart, then we pray. We pray sometimes at the altar and sometimes remain seated, however the Lord leads. Then we go into bible study.
I prefer praying at the altar. Here is the reason why, Abraham built an altar and pitched his tent. Today many have built a tent and pitched the altar. The same with Sundays and Sunday nights, except instead of bible study, I preach.
Our church quit Sunday evening worship some years ago. Our prayer meeting became an adjunct to the fellowship suppers, and is generally poorly attended.
We did have a small band of 12-15 folks who used to meet on Thursday evenings, put on some worship music, and just prayed for an hour. Sometimes it ran on to 2 and sometimes 3 hours. It never did get much over 20, and gradually interest in that eroded until it was just 2 couples.
For what is to be known as a house of prayer, I’m afraid we fall short.
Wednesday nights are very important to me. Someone once said that Sunday mornings represent the popularity of the preacher, Sunday nights represent the popularity of the church, Wednesday nights represent the popularity of Jesus. Why do I believe this is true? But what we do is very effective.
Devote yourselves to prayer, keeping alert in it with an attitude of thanksgiving; praying at the same time for us as well, that God will open up to us a door for the word, so that we may speak forth the mystery of Christ, for which I have also been imprisoned; that I may make it clear in the way I ought to speak. Colossians 4:2-4 (NASB)
Our (Eastside Baptist Church, Twin Falls, ID) Wednesday night gathering used to be what has become the norm — segregated meetings, busy, exhausting, logistical planning … about two years ago we decided to consider closely what we were doing with all that we were doing and realized that we were more catering to the cravings of the flesh than giving attention to the things of the Spirit. We repented of our foolishness, ceased what we were doing (exhausting families and devoting ourselves and our money to programs) and gave our time to prayer.
We publish a weekly prayer guide…. But we don’t give time to prayer request. If people want to submit a prayer request we ask them to call request in by noon on Wednesday. If there are new request, we simply ask people to pray it during the gathering. This stopped most of the request that had more to do about gossip or things that just simply ought to be prayed about rather than talked about. We start with a few moments to say hello to each other, encourage families to come together and stay together (we no longer offer any segregated programs.) We divide out into groups of five to eight (usually about four or five groups.) We find this a healthier model for all ages to be praying together. We thought long about the problem we were saw happening; that none of our children/youth were connected in any way to the adults, and we fear, we were teaching our children/youth that prayer was not important to devote ourselves toward, even though Scripture teaches us to devote ourselves to prayer.
It is our [prayer] that we will find a healthy church for another generation to come along behind us. We are having to be patient and intentional to not chase after what the church down the street is doing and devote ourselves to the things of God. Striving to be obedient to His word.
http://media.sermonaudio.com/articles/th-101712191328-1.PDF
A few years back both Sunday evening and mid-week services had dwindled and died. 3 years ago we began Sunday evening service again and 2-1/2 years ago the mid-week service. Attendance Sunday evening is between 1/3 and 1/2 of Sunday morning, mid-week about the same or a few less. Those who attend both services are enthusiastic and urge others to come also. Sunday evening is less formal than Sunday morning but the same basic order of worship; also, we sing hymns and psalms a capella in the evening which is a nice change!
At our mid-week prayer service, we open with pertinent Scripture then a chapter or so from an author on the subject of prayer. We have read through Bunyan’s “Treatise on Prayer”, Alexander Whyte’s “Teach Us to Pray”, Octavius Winslow’s “The Lord’s Prayer”, A W Pink’s “Gleanings from Paul”; presently we are working through E M Bounds’ works on prayer. There is frequently good follow-up discussion after the reading. We use a bulletin insert from the Joshua Project to inform and pray about an unreached people group on Sunday morning; at our mid-week service we learn more about that particular people’s culture and religious beliefs. If we have news from missionaries or ministries that we have involvement with, it is shared so we can pray for their specific requests. Most of those who attend the mid-week service keep a list of prayer items from Sunday morning and evening, then add to it mid-week, and pray for what’s on the list all week.
We try to maintain an emphasis at our mid-week service on praying for missionaries, ministries, people groups, sister churches, and the lost. Not everyone prays aloud although most do; to listen in on brothers and sisters as they pray is a huge inspiration and encouragement. God has blessed our efforts, not only in answering our prayers, but also in helping us to pray more fervently and effectually.
if communal praying is an awkward time, perhaps having a reader read from the Psalms a bit (a thought ‘unit’)
and then pause for a moment or so for people to quietly reflect on what was read aloud . . .
the Psalms themselves were the prayer-book of Our Lord, as they were of all the Hebrew people of His time on Earth . . .
the Psalms have about them that which is conducive to prayer and reflection . . . they inspire people to lift their hearts up to the Lord
As I am not currently a pastor, I am not going to talk about the church where I am a member (though we do some interesting things on Wednesday night which are fairly well attended).
I don’t want this to come across as super-spiritual or judgmental, but one of the most disappointing things I have noticed in churches in general in the States since coming home from “the mission field” five years ago is the lack of emphasis given to prayer meetings. In my opinion, a good prayer meeting should give opportunity for people to pray out loud in a small group context. In a larger group, you can break up the time between large group and small group prayer. In churches in Spain where I had a pastoral role, we sometimes did this on Wednesday nights at the “worship center,” and sometimes in home groups during the week. The key thing is that quality time is given for people to pray out loud, and not just prayers tacked on to the beginning or end of a meeting.
I know that it is sometimes hard to get people to come, but I feel pretty strongly that attendance should not be the determinative factor of “church programming.” I believe that small groups (whether in homes or elsewhere) are more central to what local church life is all about than larger preaching/worship services. And prayer should be a major part of what happens in small groups.
I have a pretty strong suspicion that one of the primary factors behind the spiritually anemic condition of the church at large in the U.S. is the demise of the “prayer meeting.”
Effectively leading a prayer meeting is a skill to which every pastor should give special attention. It is important to also train small group leaders in this skill. It is important to provide a good mix of devotional thought, confession, petition, intercession (for the sick, for needs of believers, for the unevangelized, for missions endeavors, for revival, etc.), with a time for praise and worship, not just in music, but in spoken prayers as well.
“Pray in Faith,” by T. W. Hunt and Claude King, in Lifeway’s Growing Disciples Series (formerly titled “In God’s Presence”) is an excellent six-week study for learning how to pray in small groups:
http://www.lifeway.com/Product/growing-disciples-series-pray-in-faith-p005035525
Okay, rant finished. But this is a topic I feel strongly about.
Jim Cymbala grew his church under the principle that the prayer service was the most important service of the week.
Dave,
Our Wednesday looks very similar to yours.
One thing we did over the summer was have a Saturday evening prayer and worship service. We didn’t take prayer requests. We developed a theme for the night, sang songs related to that, read Scripture related to the theme, then we broke off into small prayer groups and prayed for a few minutes on a focused direction related to the theme, then we sang, Scripture, prayed, etc, again. 3 sets of this for about an hour. The people loved it.
I’m a membert at one of the Metro Atlanta SBC megachurches, though work has kept me from Wednesday night activities for awhile. Wednesday night is fellowship dinner, plus there are Bible study groups and classes scheduled for Wednesday night.
There is no prayer meeting, per se, but there is a very effective prayer ministry. Prayer requests are taken via a variety of ways (requests handed in with the offering, over the phone, via email, over the web, etc.), and are available for members who feel called to this to pray over. I believe those who are involved in this commit to a specific time period each week to come in and pray. It’s very organized, and they followup up with those making the requests to find out what the results have been, and get more feedback so the pray-ers will know how to pray. I can testify that they can be very effective. Those involved are not just playing at prayer.
That’s member, not membert (is a membert something like a Q*bert?).
We’ve still got all five.
Training union? Really?
Yep. And most of the people who go to it still call it training union, or even what it was called before that (I always forget that name).
Before Training Union was BYPU, I believe. Baptist Young People’s Union? I’m really not that old. I’ve heard things. Really. I don’t even think I was born yet.
Regular weekly schedule goes:
Sunday, 9:45 Sunday school; 11:00 morning worship; 5:00 discipleship training; 6:00 evening worship.
Wednesday, 5:15 fellowship meal, 6:15 prayer meeting/Bible study, 7:00 choir practice.
Last church I pastored didn’t have all these. Prior to that I did interim work at a very rural church in MS that had a very similar schedule, including discipleship training/training union.
One of the ways to boost attendance for the mid-week service is simply not have the service on Wednesday night switch it to Tuesday, or Thursday and make it known all over the county. This gives other churches an opportunity to check you out. It also gives you and your members a chance to see what goes on in other churches and mabe learn from them.
Your church can have a special singer maybe from another church to bless your church, or even a guest speaker. There are so many possibilities. I’ve learned you cannot force prayer on folks It makes them sick is why they miss Wednesday nights.
The Sunday night service in this area is about gone, too. I am to supply a pulpit for a pastor this coming Sunday, a very small rural church, where they still have an Evening service. I attended it this past Sunday. The Attendance was about 10-11, including me. The pastor, a former worker in textiles, never attended college or seminary. I helped ordain him a few years ago. His message was really worthwhile. In fact, it was way better than could be expected, and he did not know I would be there. Our services in all of the churches are grinding down, slowly, inevitably, and, seemingly, surely. They also have a prayer meeting…oin Wednesday nights. What we need is a visitation from God. Ps.85:6 says, “Will you not return and visit us again, revive us again as the KJV puts it.” That is what we need a visit from the Lord.
Ours was the typical schedule. Sunday School had too many prayer request and announcements that limited the teacher. Discipleship used DVD’s in place of gifted teaching and Wednesday night was a typical illustrational sermon that did not reach the crowd. We need a change. Sunday morning service was exceptional. There was an imbalance.
We have separate men’s and ladies bible studies on different nights. The men tend to dig deeper and the women have better food.
We have Bible study for adults, youth and children.
Wednesday night:
Fellowship meal starts at 5.
Youth starts worship at 6 followed by Bible classes at 6:30.
Children have a choice between children’s choirs (“Equipping to Praise”) and “Team Kids” where sports are used in conjunction with Bible teaching.
The adults have “Equipping University” where a variety of classes are offered, some of which we have been able to add as credits for continuing education. There are Bible study classes, theology, Christian living, worldview, conversational languages for mission teams, etc.
Regular choir and orchestra rehearsal is at 7:45.
We no longer do Wednesday night. (It was me and one deacon, and he decided he was tired of showing up when no one else would.) Sunday night has gone to home Bible study. More people show up there than ever came to Sunday night service.
Our Sunday School is just a handful of people, but weekly home Bible study groups are picking up the slack on that. It seems that, for us, home groups are the way to go. We can’t get people to come to Sunday School or bring their kids to Sunday School. It’s been that way for the past few years and we’ve struggled with how to replace it. Mid-week children’s ministries seem to work, so we did that with great success–until the leaders burned out on it and bailed out on church completely.
Folks in our rural area don’t mind driving 10 miles into town for church activities, so that’s what they do. Instead of helping the small church in their community get some things done locally, they just go where someone else is already getting it done.
Sorry. None of that applied to Wednesday night. I just had to vent. I feel better now.
We have Prayer Meeting/Bible Study. We sing a hymn…then, we go over a prayer list….then, we pray….then, I teach and preach. I try to do different things every Wed. night. Sometimes, I will guide them in prayer….leading the congregation to pray about different things..together. Other times, I will ask whoever feels led to pray, then I’ll end the prayer time. Other times, like last night, I get everyone to break up into groups of 4 or 5, and pray together…..and I stress that not everyone had to pray out loud….that it’s okay to just pray along silently with the others who are praying…..because I dont want anyone to feel like they have to pray out loud, who doesnt feel comfortable with it, and it’s okay.
We also have children’s mission classes going on….and the Youth meet in their own worship time….on Wed. nights.
Also, we still have Discipleship Training at 5 on Sunday nights….followed by worship at 6; but our AWANA meets from 5-6, as well. We’ll have about 60-70% of our attendance that Sunday morning back on a Sunday night. And, we’ll have 40-50% back on Wed. nights. So, our attendance on Sunday nights and Wed. nights is pretty good.
I do wish we would move up Sunday morning to SS at 9, and worship at 10; instead of being 10 and 11. But, I havent gotten up the courage to do this, yet! 🙂
David
I’m sorry…our AWANA meets from 5-7 on Sunday nights.
We have in-home Bible Reading Groups. This is inductive Bible study following the format Dr. McDill promotes as “A Plan for Home Groups in church planting strategy” and we apply principles from his book “Making Friends for Christ” (links below).
This is the main outreach arm of our church and has been very effective in engaging church members in Bible study, in teaching them how to study the text for themselves, building fellowship, and has proven to be a great way to introduce lost friends/family to Christ. People will come to a friend’s house that will not come to a “church”.
http://www.waynemcdill.net/?article=42
http://www.amazon.com/Making-Friends-Christ-Relational-Evangelism/dp/160957057X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1350582889&sr=1-1&keywords=making+friends+for+Christ