Older readers can remember the worship wars that raged thirty years ago. The growing popularity of contemporary Christian music led many churches to change (or try to change) their worship style. They abandoned choirs, organs, and hymnals for praise bands, drum sets, and projected lyrics. Generally, younger people embraced the changes enthusiastically, while old folks complained and resisted. In some churches, the wars over worship led to church splits and/or member defections. I’m old enough to remember the night (more than 50 years ago) when our youth group led the evening service. We used a guitar in the service, and some of the older members complained about “the devil’s music” in the service. Of course, that did not phase us at all.
Naively, I thought the worship wars of the previous generation had ended, but some recent events have caused me to reconsider. I heard of a large church in the Mid-South in which the pastor was forced to resign. The church had an older minister of music and featured a fairly traditional worship service with choir, organ, and orchestra. Over several years a number of younger members left the church for a large contemporary church nearby. Church leaders became concerned about the membership decline. When the pastor and staff proposed transitioning to a contemporary worship style, the older members (who gave most of the money) declared that they would stop giving if the change was made. Then, the younger members stated they would leave if the change was not made. The poor pastor was caught in the middle, and in the end he left. The last I heard the church attendance was about a third of what it was four years ago.
Not long after I heard about the church above, I learned about a county seat First Baptist Church in the South that split right down the middle over worship. Again, the younger members wanted contemporary worship, while the older members resisted that. The result of the conflict was a church split. The younger members departed and organized a new church. The older folks kept the building, but that congregation does not have much hope for the future because most of its young families have left. A key issue in both situations is that the younger members supply numbers and energy and hope for the future, while the older members give most of the money. So, both groups need the other, but they have different preferences in worship style.
Demographics complicates the situation for worship leaders and pastors. Because people are living longer, many churches now have four generations present in a worship service. How can a worship leader design a worship service that satisfies all four generations in the congregation?
What are some solutions to this thorny issue? One solution is to have two different worship services—one traditional and one contemporary. My wife and I were members at Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis. This is what Bellevue did. They offered a more traditional service at 9:20 a.m. that featured a choir and orchestra. A praise band led the 11:00 service. Steve Gaines’ preached the same sermon at each service, but he removed his tie for second service. Now, I can see pastors of small churches shaking their heads. They are thinking—we struggle to offer one service, much less two services. We do not have the musical resources to have two services. Believe me, I get that. I’m a retired missionary who planted churches overseas, and we were delighted if our guitarist showed up. Bellevue’s orchestra is bigger than the last church I planted overseas. Still, offering two services is an option for some congregations. Some church members resist offering different services. They believe this will lead to two separate congregations, though I have not found that true in practice.
A second solution is to offer blended worship. In blended worship, the planner/leader uses both praise songs and hymns. When I was a pastor in Kentucky, our minister of music did this in a masterful way, and I believe all our folks were satisfied. In fact, once a month we had Bluegrass worship, and our members really liked that.
A third option is to provide an outlet for older members who love hymns. At our present church in Texas, our minister of music primarily employs the contemporary style of worship, but he does include a hymn a couple of times each month. He also holds a senior adult hymn-sing once a month, so that us old folks can sing hymns.
Another consideration in this matter is evangelism and outreach. Asking what worship style our members prefer may not be the primary question. The primary question should be: What worship style will enable us to win more people to Christ? Ed Stetzer, the North American church planting guru, says the choice of music style is the most important choice a church planter makes. He means that worship style significantly affects the growth of the new church. If you have a mismatch between your worship style and your target group, your church may struggle. I remember my early days on the faculty at Southern Baptist Seminary. A staff member consulted me because he was concerned about his church’s decline in membership and attendance. I knew that church used classical music in its worship services. In fact, sometimes the choir sang in Latin. So, I asked him how many radio stations in the city played classical music. He replied, “one.” I asked, “How big is their listening audience?” He answered, “It is so small it can’t be measured.” I said, “Nationally, 2 percent of the population listens to classical music. So, your church is appealing to 2 percent of the population. Would your church consider changing its worship style?” He replied, “Oh, they would never change.” I stated, “Well, it will continue to decline.”
That conversation took place more than twenty years ago, and the church has declined steadily. Many churches would do well to ask what changes in their worship services would help them reach more people.
Is there a way forward to mediate the worship wars? Both older and younger members would do well to remember the Apostle Paul’s exhortation, found in Philippians 2:3-4 (NASB)—“Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.” Some years ago I spoke with a veteran associational director of missions. He had mediated lots of church fights. He told me, “If church members would just follow Philippians 2:3-4, there would be no church fights.” Our SBC churches claim to be New Testament churches, but they seem more biblical in doctrine than in church practice.
John Mark Terry earned a Doctor of Philosophy degree in missiology from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Ft. Worth, TX and served as a career missionary professor in Southeast Asia. He was Professor of Missions at The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and currently is the Chairman of the Missions Department and Professor of Missions at Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary. He authored or edited Evangelism: A Concise History, Church Evangelism, two editions of Missiology: An Introduction, Developing a Strategy for Missions, Paul’s Missionary Methods, and Encountering the History of Missions.
A most interesting article because it re-states the obvious that there are many options, but they seem to offer no real solution. I am not sure there’s a clear solution. You cannot stop aging and changing. Wayne Burns
Our church has a blended service. Our worship minister is a man who is led by the Holy Spirit and he is filled with love and projects that love to the congregation. Love is so important! Our church had gone through turmoil for the last 20 Years . We had a church split, fought over music, even had 2 different services at one time. But God is faithful and He has sent us a music minister who is filled with love and integrates the traditional and contemporary in such a way that you can feel the Spirit of God working.… Read more »
I do not think having two separate services is ever a healthy, Biblical answer. The church is one body, and is supposed to bear with one another. Old folks and young folks should deal with one another’s music for the sake of the gospel. If churches split over the music, there are much deeper problems than musical tastes.
At my church, we sing hymns, CCM, and black gospel. The pastor frequently makes the point that everyone should be a little uncomfortable at some point in the service. I think there is a lot of truth in that.
I agree.
IMO, Two services should only happen if space absolutely necessitates it while a facility Is being built that will house everyone. During that interim period services should be exactly the same.
Another option to consider is – instead of building a larger building… consider sending out a bunch of your members to start another healthy church… *Not a split (or a satellite) but work toward an independent healthy church plant.
I do agree with Lisa that choosing a gifted and Holy Spirit led worship leader makes all the difference. There is no one answer for any church! My parents, in their late 80s, are thrilled to sing the new worship songs as they see younger people engaging with them. They have inspired me! I definitely have a preference, but also have 6 days and 23 other hours to listen to my own music preference. Younger worship leaders, one way you can be sensitive to older people is to dress neatly and not sing the same bridge forever and ever. 🙂… Read more »
Well, Cathy beat me to it, but “contemporary” today is not the 7-11 contemporary of the 90’s, which is exactly what they were because I sang them with the youth group I led in the 1990’s. In fact, contemporary today is probably more traditional hymns simply arranged without an organ and the utterly nonsensical 2 octaves too high Baptist hymnal. As a man, it seems the Baptist Hymnal was written for prepubescent boys. I love the hymnal because I grew up on it, but I can’t hit the notes in it. I’m almost 60 and I don’t mind change because… Read more »
Could it be that we (the Boomers) have become our parents and won’t tolerate the change to the next generation’s preferred music? I’ve had to deal with that a bit on a personal level. I got saved in the early 70’s, and pretty much grew up on the Jesus music of the 70’s and 80’s. I also appreciate a lot of the old hymns (as long as they’re not sung in a perfunctory manner). But I find myself comparing current CCM with the Jesus Music I grew up with, and the current CCM seems to fall short. A lot of,… Read more »
It takes two to fight. I have nothing against contemporary music in itself (as Paige Patterson says, all music was contemporary at one time or another). I do have a quarrel with people who insist on it and nothing else. How are they any better than the ones who insist on nothing but traditional music?
There are probably people surprised that such things still exist, but they do. Contemporary worship style has taken over at many churches but there are still places where people either are resisting it or unhappy about it. IT is a constant struggle! while it is often the older and traditional folks who come across as angry, it is also true that they have often been treated dismissively by many churches. “We are trying to reach the world, so you need to give up your preferences and adjust.” So, they sing music that hurts their ears and hearts. I like all… Read more »
Agreed Dave – substance over style.
I tell people at my church – “I’m a words man when it comes to music in our worship services. Style is all but inconsequential.”
Of course that statement assumes that the Christ exalting, gospel proclaiming, discipleship spurring words can actually be understood and sung together. It’s not a concert we should sing together.
We have a blended worship service, but it’s not just two styles of music. There are hymns and CCM, but there’s also Southern Gospel and Black Gospel in their varieties. The solution isn’t so much in finding the right kind of music, but in being more spiritually mature. If you try to find the right kind of music to cater to various segments of the congregation without working with them to consider others before themselves, then you haven’t addressed the deeper problem and have probably only served to make that deeper problem worse. Church isn’t about people getting their own… Read more »
There is a big difference that CCM has as compared to the traditional hymns which are in the Baptist Hymnal and that is the CCM worship songs which are being sung in churches today have a lot shorter “shelf life”. By that I mean that all of the major contemporary artists like Chris Tomlin, Third Day, New Song, etc. as well as the church based groups like Hillsong United, and Elevation Worship are constantly writing new songs and therefore, churches which sing this music are constantly changing what they are singing. The reality behind this – and this is not… Read more »
I would have to disagree…
If you do your research, most all hymns were written by those making their living in music as well.
Did the prolific hymn writers such as Fanny Crosby, B. B. McKinney, etc make their living in the same manner as the popular musicians of today . . . move to Nashville . . . produce albums . . . tours . . . concerts?
I know Fanny was blind but I’m not that familiar otherwise with either’s life.
Since many of them wrote before Nashville existed, I suppose the answer would be no.
Not sure of the point.
I am uncomfortable with the commercialization of Christianity in many ways, but I preach where I get paid. I hope that doesn’t somehow demean my ministry. A musician getting paid for making music is not shameful, unless that musician crosses a line. Defining that line is difficult, of course.
Fannie Crosby- She made her living as a writer/poet. She had an unusual marriage in which she and her husband agreed to remain apart in their latter years. They had a daughter, but the child did not live long after birth. Her husband never really recovered from this loss. One thing we can learn of all this is that all writers, like us, have the little red wagon of humanity following behind them, no matter the generation or era. I have often said, “I wish I had written that poem/hymn”, only to recant, with the reminder that the hardship required… Read more »
My point about the current CCM artists was not to criticize them for earning a living by making and singing Christian music, but instead was to say that for that very reason, they have to constantly be producing new music in order to have an income this year, next year and the year after that. Because of that, your local Christian radio station will be playing new songs every month and as a result, the worship leaders at your church who listen to these songs will want to sing them at your Sunday morning worship service. Therefore, for those who… Read more »
I feel your pain. I’ve seen these “worship” quarrels in my life as well. Yes, it is disappointing that worship music quite often, not the substance of the pastor’s sermon, serves as the deciding factor in how church pews are filled. With all due respect and prayer, this article disappoints me. Not one mention regarding scripture teaching and the quality of a message to encourage growth, not one mention of the Holy Spirit blessing a pastor’s growth objectives and the Holy Spirits role in the growth of the church. If Christ visited a pastor this evening (relax, I don’t mean… Read more »
I now attend a church that has only contemporary music. I see significant practical barriers for the entire young-ish congregation, which include: 1. Many just don’t know the song. With only the words on a screen, we have no way of anticipating note changes, rests, pace, etc. It’s almost the same as if I handed a written poem to a worship leader, stanza by stanza, and said “please stand and sing this with me.” Honestly it’s an unreasonable expectation, even for the musically inclined. 2. Saying the first 3 words of the next verse DOES NOT HELP. We can read… Read more »
And one more:
8. Check to see if the decibel level are safe for children. Do young moms in your church have to choose between (a) not attending Sunday service with newborn baby, and (2) bringing them in wearing noise-blocking earphones? I see it all the time. Now THAT’s a barrier.
Just as foolish as the “there’s nothing worth singing in contemporary music” idea is the concept that any music more than a couple of years old is not worth singing.
I love to sing a new song with a powerful message, but I could sing the old standards over and over.
When time is over and we stand before God, the worship wars may be one of the dumbest things we have to account to God for!
I love to sing a new song with a powerful message, but I could sing the old standards over and over. Yes, it is easier to sing the old familiar standards (whether they are the old hymns, or older CCM or Jesus music – some of what I would consider “old standard” would probably be considered quite contemporary to some), yet we are multiple times told to “sing a new song to the Lord”. Perhaps the Lord doesn’t intend that we stick only with the easy, familiar, old standards, but also be willing to dive into something that would be… Read more »
Not to brag, but your point #3 confirms my point about there always being a new song to learn because the Contemporary Christian Music artists are constantly producing new worship songs and these will soon be heard on K-Love, Way-FM or your local Christian radio station. You hear these songs all week long on your car radio (if you listen to Christian radio) and then hear them being sung by your worship leaders at church on Sunday. Last point, I’m not totally sure that having a praise band sing an old hymn will ever be as appealing as hearing it… Read more »
Great stuff Karen.
I’ve also noticed a lack of the ability to actually “read” music in the contemporary artist arena as well.
Divine retribution for all the times we’ve scoffed at a capella churches of Christ! ?
Seriously there does now seem to be a certain wisdom to their approach, however spurious and unbiblically justified it may seem. The instruments themselves play a key (no pun intended) role in the dilemma.
Perhaps the introduction of virtual instrument platforms like Hauptwerk will result in a resurgence of the “king of the instruments” for smaller churches which have never experienced its power and majesty.
One can always hope.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq8i69-L-Fs
I am also one who longs for the old worship style. But I also long for this debate to be framed in truth. It is not accurate to frame this as a disagreement between old people who prefer an old style of music versus young people who prefer a contemporary style of music. The inaccuracy is demonstrated by looking back to when these old codgers were young themselves. Did they try to get the church to change to contemporary music? Not to my knowledge. Why did the church in general remain a hymn-singing church for centuries, even though it had… Read more »
Ken, I think your prediction in the last paragraph has already come to pass in a very large amount of churches.
If I ever again find an old fashioned Baptist church that still sings the “songs of Zion,” and hasn’t a care about whether or not it might sound cool to the young people of the world, I think I’ll join it. No need to speed them up like a “dance track.” No need to have a second service. No need to have colored lights or a smoke machine. No need even for slick video displays, or for the professional looking package of logo’s, name, and theme. First (or Second) Baptist Church will do fine. To tell the truth, I keep… Read more »
Ken makes good points; however, at the two churches I mentioned the conflict was generational and over the style of music. Some have written that church members should not fight over the style of music. I certainly agree, but nonetheless they did. I also agree that some of the new music is unfamiliar and almost un-singable. At Bellevue in Memphis my wife and I attended the contemporary service because we taught Sunday School classes during the traditional service. (Bellevue has three Sunday School times.) I noticed that during the contemporary service most of the worshipers just stood and listened to… Read more »
Any time this debate come up, anywhere, it is NOT merely about old style versus new style. It is about whether stylistic concerns are important enough to justify abandoning the hymns that have been sung by the saints for centuries. This is the real issue, even if those debating don’t frame it that way. When Sinatra was popular, where was the great movement within the Church to revamp the music to make it more like Sinatra-style music (etc.)? No doubt the world hates Christ, hates the Church and hates hymns. But why is it beneficial to make our music sound… Read more »
Ken,
I think you are overselling the doctrinal content of some hymns and underselling the doctrinal content of some of the newer music. It’s not that one is somehow superior to the other.
Ken: I applaud your points of view on contemporary music vs. traditional hymns. In our church, a small congregation of less than 250 members(decreasing steadily), we switched to a combination of contemporary and traditional music, with drums and loud instruments about three years ago. I can honestly say that I, an 86 year old, have never read or heard of a single one of the contemporary songs that have been sung in our church(the exception those being sung that are repeats). And, as I look around the congregation(purposely) I note that less than 10% of the congregation are participating in… Read more »
From what I interpret in scripture: God is pleased when our worship comes from our being saved. “You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.” (John 4:22) and He is pleased when our worship is authentic, coming from our hearts.“true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshippers must worship in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:23-24) Style is not mentioned in scripture from what I can research. I like the… Read more »
Ryan is right here. The trope that hymns have doctrinal content and contemporary songs don’t simply doesn’t fit reality. “I come to the garden alone, while the dew is still on the roses. And the voice I hear, falling on my ear, the Son of God discloses.” Amazing doctrinal content! On the other hand, we had Lord’s Supper yesterday and most of the songs we sang were written in this century – a couple were pretty new. They had DEEP content about the cross and the work of Christ. There are good hymns and not-so-good hymns. There is contemporary music… Read more »
Dave,
You believe that contemporary songs are just as doctrinally edifying as hymns? I guess we’ll just have to disagree, as I see it being the rule in latter and the exception in the former.
I wonder if you also believe that for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows…
That isn’t even a Christian song. You are criticizing Christian music because a non-Christian song has silly lyrics? That is a sound argument!
I think you are sanctifying YOUR preferences. You like one type of music more than another, so you are imposing a divine sanction on that type of music. Would you demand that Africans and Asians sing the kind of music you like as well? Should your preferences in music reign forever?
How long does a song have to exist before it is okay to sing?
BTW, I attended an SBC Sunday morning service about a month ago where the songs were Lean on Me, You’ve Got a Friend, and Shower the People you Love with Love, by Bill Withers and James Taylor. Not much theology there…
I wonder if you also believe that for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows… How does a Frankie Laine song from the early 1950s get lumped in with CCM, which got its start from the Jesus Music of the 70’s and 80’s? I think Dave’s statement might be better stated as there are CCM songs just as doctrinally edifying as the old hymns that have survived. As I stated earlier, it’s easy to make a comparison here that isn’t apples-to-apples. The hymns that have survived, by and large, are the best of them, those that have passed… Read more »
Argh. I hate it when I must up the ending blockquote tag. Makes we wish for the ability to edit my comments.
Ben, You asked, “How does a Frankie Laine song from the early 1950s get lumped in with CCM, which got its start from the Jesus Music of the 70’s and 80’s?” I’ve attended many church services over the years in which this song was sung. To me, it’s all lumped together as a desire to sing something more contemporary than hymns. Like that song that says, “There’s just something about that name….. Like the fragrance after the rain…” Lots of emotion but little substance. I know–these are old examples, but hey, I’m old. So I just see a continuity with… Read more »
Sorry Ken, I have NEVER sung any of those songs you mentioned in a worship service. But I have sung some amazing songs written in the last five years that were doctrinally sound and challenging and did not sound like more traditional hymns. Some examples for you to research: Death was Arrested So Will I No Longer Slaves 10,000 Reasons Mountain Embracing Accusations Come to the Altar Christ Be All Around Me Check them out. Look at the lyrics. We sing these and many others at my church all the time. Theology in music is very important to me and… Read more »
Dave, You said: That isn’t even a Christian song. What is your point? And yet, the only place I’ve heard that song (and I’ve heard it many times over the years) is in a church worship service. My point was that there are many contemporary songs used in church worship that are heavy on sentiment but light on substance. You also said: You like one type of music more than another, so you are imposing a divine sanction on that type of music. Would you demand that Africans and Asians sing the kind of music you like as well? Should… Read more »
Ken, pointing at theologically weak (or outright non-existent) contemporary songs is a bit of a non-sequitur when it comes to the supposed superiority of hymns. Tell me, which hymnal do you use? 2008 Baptist Hymnal? That has songs by men like Chris Tomlin putting out “modern” contemporary songs that are full of theological depth. 1991 Baptist Hymnal is also fairly good, but then we go back a bit farther to the 1975 Baptist Hymnal. There are hymns in there that make the worst Conteporary Christian song look theologically deep in comparison. Most hymnals historically have had their duds. Just like… Read more »
Ken: Now you are dishing Bill Gaither? Really? I personally love his music and find it both Christ honoring and edifying. I remember a church I belonged to as a young teen, and pamphlets concerning why Bill Gaither music was wrong. I disagreed then and now. Good grief. When it gets that strict on music, I know there will be other rules I won’t be able to follow cause I’m human as well as a Christian, and I wasn’t able to follow most of this church’s rules, not out of conviction at the time, but because like the ten commandments… Read more »
Ken,
I’ve heard of the flower song but I have never heard it in church and I thought of it as one of the old less good hymns since it’s older than I am and it’s from an Elvis Gospel album. Rule of thumb: if a man whose been dead for over 40 years sang it, it ain’t contemporary.
BTW Ken: These are the whole words and I am writing them from memory and find it on every page in scripture that speaks of Christ and the testimony of those in the Bible whom He touched. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus; there’s just something about that name. Master, Savior, Jesus, like the fragrance after the rain; Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, let all Heaven and earth proclaim Kings and kingdoms will all pass away, But there’s something about that name. Kings and kingdoms will all pass away, But there’s something about that name. I used to sing this at the top of my… Read more »
There seems little point in arguing, Ken. You are asserting your preferences as God’s divine word. You assert your experience as normative. You assert ridiculous extremes as if they are normal. I love old hymns, but I find your statements to lack any biblical foundation. They are preferences masquerading as doctrine. We don’t get to pretend that what WE like is more holy than what someone else likes. There is some GREAT contemporary music out there and there are some great hymns. There is some junk in the hymnal and in CCM. Asserting YOUR preferred style as God’s only acceptable… Read more »
Ryan, You said: Sorry Ken, I have NEVER sung any of those songs you mentioned in a worship service. But I have sung some amazing songs written in the last five years that were doctrinally sound and challenging and did not sound like more traditional hymns. I looked up your examples. I’ve only heard 1 or maybe 2. They all seem acceptable to me for content. It’s not that good recently written worship songs cannot be found. It’s just that so much that is lacking in substance is so commonly the go-to songs for contemporary services. Two exceptions, which I… Read more »
Ken, it is not that you expressed YOUR view, but that you condemned those whose preferences were different than yours as less than godly or mature. If you are going to make blanket and false stereotypical statements, then, yes, they will be challenged. You have the right to HAVE those views and to state them, but you cannot expect judgmental and condescending views like that to go unchallenged. You began this with, ” “What worship songs please God?” And does anyone think that God has not been pleased with hymns?” Basically, you claimed that God was “pleased with hymns” but… Read more »
Dave, One last thing regarding the harshness of your replies. You said: You are asserting your preferences as God’s divine word. Show me where I’ve said or even implied it. You said: You assert your experience as normative The only person’s experience that I have to share from is mine. If the church I grew up in, First Church of God in Ashtabula, Ohio, sang that “non-Christian” song on a regular basis, and a few of the churches I’ve been a member of along the way, such as Briggs Road Baptist Church and Broadman Baptist Church, both of Columbus, Ohio,… Read more »
You can have the last word, Dave. “What worship songs please God?” And does anyone think that God has not been pleased with hymns?” Basically, you claimed that God was “pleased with hymns” but less so with contemporary songs. That is ludicrous. It was not my intention by this question to contrast God’s being pleased with hymns against His being pleased less with CCM. Rather, what I meant was that we are not asking the proper question when we only ask, what will please those in attendance? In other words, since God is pleased with hymns, then where is the… Read more »
I think Debbie is on the right track (see her post above about Jn. 4:20-24). We need a definition of worship before a discussion of worship (of which corporate music is but a part) can take place.
One of the reasons our churches are all over the place on music and music styles is because our understanding of worship (and ecclesiology) is all over the place.
Mark Terry said: “ I noticed that during the contemporary service most of the worshipers just stood and listened to the praise team. One Sunday the service featured an older praise song from the 80s, and everyone sang enthusiastically. The difference was amazing.” Bingo. Doctrinally strong contemporary music that the crowd (1) doesn’t know (2) can’t sing due to having no notes to follow, and/or (3) can’t hear any singing anyway due to the sound system’s decibel level — blunts the desire to participate. We’re actually training them not to participate. The irony is this: young vibrant Christians and visitors… Read more »
I think another facet of the “music debates” is rooted in how one (the church) views the main worship service in the context of a local church… It’s been my observation that Typically: If one views the worship service primarily as a means of attracting people to the church – Then it follows that they would mimic the culture and make stylistic choices accordingly. If one views the worship service as a means to jointly worship God as a body of believers; encouraging and equipping the saints to do the work of the ministry then stylistic preferences aren’t as much… Read more »
I realize this is a bit of a generalization based on my experiences and knowledge of how this situation plays out…
But I do think that how A church views the purpose/intent of the main worship service plays a part.
I do too. And I’m wondering if there are untested assumptions at work.
Tarheel Dave – I think your second option is the Biblical one.
Me too. 🙂
This may be one of the most ‘on point’ posts on Voices that I have read….I can argue (or discuss if you like that better) both sides of this issue with passion. I am now in my 60’s (even as I write that, I cannot believe it)…Somewhere along the way in church history, we seem to have lost focus. As a professional musician of over 50 years, a vocational music (the old version of “the WORSHIP”) minister for over 15 years, a pastor for over 20, & now a Associational Missionary for over 2, how would it be for us… Read more »
As a nearly 50 year old worship pastor with over 20 years of fulltime music ministry experience, it greatly saddens me that the ‘worship wars’ appear to be at its highest peak. It grieves me because this appears to have happened under my generations watch. Let me give some insight from what I am seeing and from my experiences. 1. Targeted audiences and styles have led to more ‘I want my style.’ Whoever thought by offering a buffet of styles in different services and venues would solve our music problems and increase kingdom growth was wrong. (Biggest decline in our… Read more »
My observation is that the people I have noticed who do not sing are those who are lukewarm to hostile to newer music which indicates that they are withholding worship based on their own preferences. It has not been the contemporary worshippers doing this in reverse in my observation.
Also, I will note that most new songs are fairly easy to learn so the excuse that people don’t know new songs doesn’t wash with me.
Wow, my wife is a 34 year old classically trained singer, she loves hymns and singing in parts. She reads music and sings the actual notes, written on the page in the correct tone and key. I say that to point out the dismissiveness of your post and the harshness of it. She struggles singing many CCM songs that she is hearing for the first few times unless she has sheet music for them. And she always attempts to sing with whatever is being played from the platform because she is there to worship and participate. Don’t dismiss the difficulties… Read more »
Agreed, Michael Labate. I (sort of) read music, can carry a tune, was in a ‘blended’ service for decades, and have sung briefly in school & church choir ages ago. After 2 years in my new, exclusively CCM church, I still can’t participate half the time (see above: band writes & plays original music, chooses new songs, ad-libs, etc.) I still try!! I’m over 60, so I thought it was just declining ability. But (1) although our church is packed with young families, a large portion are not participating/singing; and (2) when a more traditional song is played (“Holy Holy… Read more »
Uhhh, Michael & Karen. I have no musical training , can’t read musical notes, and can’t carry a tune in a bucket, so I find it an exceedingly strange idea that someone with greater training and skill than I would have trouble in this area (kind of like a doctor’s office secretary being able to practice medicine easier than a doctor could). My guess would be to think that if a musically trained person is having difficulty learning a fairly easy to play and sing song, then they are probably analyzing and overthinking it too much, but I’m guessing at… Read more »
That was my point. You find it strange; I do as well as I struggle mightily with some of the more difficult arrangements of a hymnal. But standing next to my wife I marvel at how she seamlessly sings difficult arrangements and just seems to flow with the music. I then marvel as she starts too soon, holds a note too long, and literally stutters as she attempts to sing without notes, what to me is a simple (CCM) “worship song”. My point, is that the struggle is real for many worshippers who were trained to sing as my wife… Read more »
Michael,
You keep missing my point. My comment wasn’t about the occasional, rare person who might have trouble with this but about the modern day hypocrite who is (as I stated earlier): “people who have absolutely no problem picking up a song off the radio easily and singing along with it quickly while driving in their care, entering church and turning right around and complaining that they don’t know and can’t seem to learn a song being sung fairly regularly in their church.” This is the majority of contemporary haters that I have encountered.
Rather, the last sentence would better read: “This is the majority of contemporary haters that won’t sing newer songs that I have encountered”
Hypocrites are always a problem in church, but almost impossible to truly identify as you do not know the heart of the person. I would agree with you on that final point, but that was not your original point with which I took contention. “My observation is that the people I have noticed who do not sing are those who are lukewarm to hostile to newer music which indicates that they are withholding worship based on their own preferences. It has not been the contemporary worshippers doing this in reverse in my observation.” and then “Also, I will note that… Read more »
Michael,
I could argue that you are the one not approaching the argument honestly but I instead chose to believe that you are missing my point . No need to rehash what’s already said other than to stress again that my comment is about those refusing to worship who otherwise pick up songs quickly and not about classical musicians.
Contemporary music may or may not be popular but it is largely non-participatory. Regardless or whether or not people like contemporary music for the most part they don’t sing the songs themselves — they just watch the show. So the question is: if we stipulate that contemporary music as a style is OK, does this mean that the idea people watching rather than participating is also OK? I went to the contemporary service a few times and made some mental notes. For the most part the people there like the music but they don’t sing along. Also, half of them… Read more »
Roger: Contemporary music has been around for many, many years. I have been going to contemporary church services for years, actually since the 70’s and I have experienced and seen the opposite. Hands are raised in praise, hallelujahs and amens are being said as prayers are raised up and yes they do sing along. I can’t help but sing along, and I am in my early 60’s. I prefer contemporary services. Concerts or services I have been to, the results are the same.
You raise a good point, Debbie, and that is individual church culture. Your church sounds great. Freedom in worship! I love a church culture – whether contemporary or traditional – where people say “Amen” and feel free to stand, sit, raise hands, clap. Traditional and blended music services can purposefully encourage that same freedom in worship. I love the additional thought that freedom in worship can include variety. Old & new, listening and singing along, whatever inspires worship. That may be different for each church. But if a church wants participation & it’s not actually happening, something should change.
Roger,
I agree with Debbie.
In the churches I have been in, contemporary music is a participatory activity.
We stand and sing it even as we do the hymns.
Simple observation:
I just this past weekend attended a 2-day conference for worship Leaders in Cedarville, Ohio; with lots of breakout sessions and several main worship times led by Paul Baloche (writer of “Open the Eyes of My Heart”). The music was professionally done, and the attendees were, for the lost part, musically trained Worship leaders adept at learning and leading new songs.
Guess when the singing the most loud and enthusiastic?
…When we sang an old hymn.
Any song, like a fine meal, well prepared and presented has the potential of being effective. Many youth and children often disapprove of “old hymns” (new songs too)because of their presentation and instrumentation, not their age. Many in the older set can’t tell you why they don’t like the “new contemporary” songs but often it comes down to poor leadership and even poorer musicianship. Andy, I remember the SBC Ridgecrest Music Weeks–There was some fine singing and musicianship. Then we all went back home to reality–to the untrained and often insecure voice! Our ministry of making disciples includes building up… Read more »
I also love the old hymns. But you do realize that at one time the old hymns were contemporary.
I love *some* old hymns and I love *some* Newer hymns/songs.
Some of both the older hymns and the newer songs have really good, theologically sound lyrics – some of both also, to be blunt, have Theological soundness of a rock and are just all around pretty terrible.
Just because it’s old does it make it good and just because it’s new doesn’t make it bad and vice versa.
True.
Debbie, I would love to have heard what old codgers said way back when about new-fangled songs like Amazing Grace. “We can’t sing that new stuff – we have to stick with the old stuff, tried and true.”
One refreshing trend is setting the words to old hymns to new tunes or tweaking them. I’m thinking of Amazing Grace coupled with My Chains Are Gone. Whether a worship service is contemporary, blended, or traditional–my aspiration is to see folks participating, worshiping the Lord with sincere hearts. As King David writes, “Bless the Lord, O my soul, And all that is within me, bless His holy name.” (Ps 103:1, NASB). In this verse “bless” could be translated as “praise.” My dear wife can’t carry a tune, but she worships the Lord with heartfelt enthusiasm. She tells folks that she… Read more »
Mark, the fact that some people really HATE that shows that it isn’t really about content, but style in the “worship wars.” If it was about content, then people would be happy to have the “solid, theological content” of the older hymns put to contemporary settings. But I have heard several who are more torqued about old hymns in contemporary settings. I just hope that the wars will be over soon and we will just worship. I’m an in-betweener – I like old and new. But I’m very tired of the fighting. It has been a dominant force in my… Read more »
I was in a restaurant yesterday that had 4 generations of people– all centered around one thing FOOD. My wife works for an organization that sees 4 generations of people all working together around one central idea–EDUCATION. Churches remain generationally split over leadership promoting MUSIC STYLE–NOT WORSHIP. We are not having worship wars. We are having I HAVE NOT BEEN WORSHIPPING wars. Where this is happening, we have agenda driven leadership who either capitulates or operates in a vacuum of insecurity. (look for indigenous character instead of rubber stamp program) The golden calf begging for our attention is music style.… Read more »
“Ladies, it is possible to be feminine, beautiful and attractive without being seductive–right?”
What the hay????
BTW, none of this is about anything I prefer. So many great worship experiences! So many trees in the garden. Since I love my church, and my church has decided on CCM only – seemingly the newer the better — I need to adjust to sitting under that one tree, and being grateful for it.
Debbie, I have been involved in more than one discussion because someone on the music team wore clothing that was provocative in some way. I know it is somehow uncool now to speak about modesty – even though the Bible does. But when someone is leading God’s people in worship, their dress should not distract in any way.
Hi Debbie.
That sentence goes with the following:
“Church leadership, it is also possible to be contemporary and in touch with our culture without fleshly-mimicry.”
Sorry, I should have kept them together.
“Music gets to play the role of impotent antagonist, while our church plays “Keeping up with the Oscars”. The worlds money driven music and band scene found its way into our churches and has produced our infamous PRAISE ME BAND, with performance-driven episodes that carnal believers relish. ”
Glenn, this is absolute, total, and complete nonsense. This is not a serious argument based in reality. I am at a loss for how something like this can be written. It just doesn’t mesh with the real world.
Hi Scott, Our “real worlds” are possibly different. I am finishing a book on Worship and my last chapter includes visits of the real world varieties to every denomination I can find– small to large. Admittedly, I am choosing to lend commentary on the trend of darkened concert halls and pep-talks, in hopes to slap some of the disbelief from my own face. Going from a Greek Orthodox service to an SBC Coffee Shop/Church (in that order)is a real world, somewhat dichotomous awakening . The diminuendo of churches and church life is not reversed by the “Executive” Pastors, strobe lights,… Read more »
I like the title–worship leader. It seems to me that the first goal of a worship leader is to plan and conduct a worship service that glorifies God. The second goal would be to lead the people to engage in glorifying God. Worship leaders, if your folks are just observing, then you have a concert, not a worship service. I’ve participated in meaningful worship services that used liturgical, traditional, blended, or contemporary styles. So, the style is not the main thing really, though some have made it so.
Hi Mark,
Might you have known Jeff Pound, Miles Seaborn and sons?
TW Hunt?
Yes, I knew Miles Seaborn, and I know his sons. Yes, I served with Jeff Pound on the missions field. I knew Dr. Hunt slightly.
When we go to church to get something out of it (hearing/singing the music we like, hearing a good message and the like) then we are going to church for the wrong reason. The mindset is all wrong. We are to gather together and worship the One True God.
Sovereign Grace Music, Keith and Krystin Getty, Sojourn Music, and Matt Merker are doing a terrific job of belensing old and new. Their modern day hymns have a contemporary feel, but add so much more theological depth than many hymns found in the 91 & 08 Baptist Hymnals & Heavenly Highway Hymns book.
Stupid auto correct and my fat thumbs. *blending Gahhh!!!
“Worship Wars” is an interesting and disturbing title for this conflict (where it occurs). Quoting Manley Beasley Sr. “Most of our meetings are made up of messages and experiences where our intellects are expanded and our emotions are thrilled and we go home and say, “God was there today”. and we have not changed one iota. God was not there. Every time you meet God you will change.” from His Faith Workbook Volume 1 If we are warring over styles of preferences, we just might be thinking God is there when He isn’t and we walk away feeling good about… Read more »
Jon, I certainly would agree that the term “Worship Wars” seems a bit of a misnomer as at the root does not seem to be about worship of the King of kings and the lord of Lords.. “The selfish wars” does seem to be more accurate nomenclature. Here – just like with so much of the issues we find in our churches – we take the perceived easiest route and spend our time focusing and trying to deal with the fruit while ignoring the root. The *fruit* (unhealthy divisions over music styles) comes from the root of personal pride and… Read more »
*Lord of lords
Jon – love the quote by Manley. I think it’s great that someone would quote him in 2018. “Faith acts like it’s so . . .”