Ergun Caner is a real ex-Muslim

Ergun Caner has been at the center of controversy recently.  Mohammad Khan, a Muslim, has launched a website called fake ex muslims.  Mohammad has used this website to point out errors and contradictions in Ergun Caner’s testimony, speeches and publications.

Last week I posted evidence on my blog that indicates Ergun Caner was born in Sweden, moved to America before his fourth birthday and has remained here ever since.  This is a contradiction to Ergun’s biography on the Liberty University website which states he immigrated to the United States in 1979.  Following the start of this controversy, Ergun’s biography was removed from his own website; clicking the BIO link continues to give a not found error as of today.

I want to be very clear that I do not endorse, condone, or share motivations with Mohammad Khan.  In fact, I emailed him today calling him to repent and urging him to trust in Jesus alone to save him from the wrath of God he deserves.  Mohammad is deceptive in his approach to Ergun Caner and Mohammad’s entire premise is false.  The blogger who writes under the pseudonym TurretinFan has posted a three part response to Mohammad’s claims. Ergun Caner is indeed a real ex-Muslim.  As my blog post shows, Ergun’s father fought in court for the right to train his children in the Islamic faith.

While disagreeing with Ergun’s Muslim critic, I also call on Ergun to explain why the exposed legal documents contradict his testimony, his speeches, and his biography.  A boy who came to America as a toddler and was trained in the Islamic faith for some time, then was saved by a mighty merciful God is a glowing testimony to God’s glory.  Why would you want to try robbing God of His glory and invent a testimony that is not your own?

I call upon Jerry Falwell, Jr, Jonathan Falwell and the Liberty University staff to hold Ergun Caner accountable for being honest.

I challenge Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia to be wise stewards of God’s cooperative program resources and prayerfully consider if Liberty University is bringing God glory.

I call Mohammad Khan to repent of his sin and put his faith in the One True God, trusting Jesus alone for salvation.

Most importantly, I call upon Ergun Caner to give God the glory in his salvation and share with the world an honest biography and testimony.

-Jason Smathers. * Subscribe to my blog. * Follow me on Twitter.

***For The Record: I, Matt Svoboda(blog editor) has contacted Ergun Caner and I told him if he could give me anything showing that Jasons accusations are false then I would immediately take the blog down.  He made a couple of points, but failed to answer about the “timeline/raised in predominantly Muslim country” questions. That being said, I believe Ergun plans to continue to respond to me.  I will not post the messages/emails because I gave him my word that I wouldnt.

Comments

  1. Christiane says

    Strange. A man who has told ‘mis-information’ is raised to high position. and a man who has told the truth is now advised to ‘repent’.

    What is going on?

  2. says

    Presumably you’ve followed the back-and-forth between Caner and James White (AOMIN)? White has been holding his feet to the fire!

  3. Tony Ja says

    Wow this is such a funny article. I am a Christian and I thank Mr Khan even though he is a Muslim for exposing Mr Caner. You just admitted your self “I call upon Ergun Caner to give God the glory in his salvation and share with the world an honest biography and testimony” which means he has been lying openly and Mr Khan has actually realised all his lies. Please my Christian brothers why not look into Mr Khan’s evidence rather than his faith. Also just because Ergans father won the right to train them in the Islamic way means only 2 things. 1, does not make him a muslim because of this and 2, his father must not know anything about islam as Mr Caner clearly does not know anything, Mr Khan has over 80 points that prove he knows nothing. My son was a big fan of Dr Caner, he is 19 years old and after Mr Khan’s evidence he no longer follows this deceiver. Open your eyes i urge you

  4. Aron says

    Hello all, yes i would totally agree with Tony Ja,

    After watching all the videos of Caner it clearly shows he was never a truly practicing muslim. His mistakes are far to many and far to profound to say he was ever a muslim. A muslim would never make mistakes on the simplest mistakes for example the testimony of faith. I read the responce to fake ex muslims but they are not really proofs and evidances against Mr Khan. The article is short and Mr Khan has many many points against Caner which have not been touched upon. There are alot of sincere christians out there but i just dont see caner as one of them at all. And i truly thank Mr Khan for his time and effort.

    As i have studied Islam i do have a good understanding of the religion. However most Christians don’t. And that is why i can see how caner tries to fool Christians. So i can understand why Mr Khan would make this vids. But we should all come together and learn from each other instead of muslims learning Christianity from muslims and Christians learning islam from Christians.

    Thanks all

    • says

      I think you and Tony Ja might be missing Jasons point a little bit.

      Jason can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe he is not telling Mr Khan to repent because he exposed what, by him, appears to be lies by Ergun Caner, but that Jason is calling him to repent of sin(in general as all should) and put his faith in Jesus Christ.

      When I read the post this is what I picked up Jason saying:
      1) He doesnt share motivations with Mr. Khan.
      2) Yet he is asking the same questions as Mr. Khan.
      3) Can he get some answers from Ergun Caner?

      • says

        Matt,
        May I suggest that we not allow this thread to be a forum for Muslims to air their hatred and opinions regarding this? That seems like it would be a big distraction and (if I read him correctly) counterproductive to what Jason is trying to do in this writing. Could we keep this more “in house”?

        • Aron says

          Who is airing their hatred? I must have missed something? People have opinions. From what i can see no one is saying emotionally irrational statements to start arguments.

          • says

            I asked that b/c there was a comment or two (which no longer appear) that were headed in that direction, and because I thought that should those kinds of comments come (which inevitably they would) it would distract from the main discussion at hand and (I think) the spirit in which Jason’s post was written.

            If those removed comments are any indication, I guess admin agrees with me on that!

      • says

        I call Mr. Khan to repent of sin in general and to put his faith in Jesus alone to save him from the hell he deserves.

        I emailed Mr. Khan to address his sin of plagiarism, where he has taken my words and posted them as his own on his blog. In his mission to expose deception from Dr. Caner, he has himself been very deceptive.

        I agree with Mr. Khan on the point that Dr. Caner should account for the discrepancies in his story. However, Mr. Khan’s premise is wrong, Dr. Caner is indeed a real ex-Muslim — with questions that need answered.

        If Mr. Khan were to die today, this would be one of many sins he would be called to account for before God. No amount of good can tip the scales in his favor, he has sinned against a Holy God. Even after a million years in hell, his sins would not be atoned for. Jesus is his only hope. Jesus lived a perfect sinless life and did not deserve to die. Jesus died on the cross in place of all who repent and believe, then he rose on the third day – conquering sin and death! Mr. Khan, put your faith in Jesus alone to save you and He will. The righteousness of Jesus will be imputed onto you and you will have eternal life. I urge you to repent and believe this minute.

  5. says

    God is always glorified in Truth (even when the lost speak it)… and He is never glorified in Deception… Never! The fact that Ergun Caner has take down his bio information from the web-site is an admision of his guilt… He should either resign, or the University should remove him. There is absolutly zero room from deception in the ministry of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Grace Always,

  6. says

    This whole discussion (and the ongoing feuds related to it) should trouble us deeply at some level as believers. That doesn’t mean we just sweep everything under the rug and pretend things never happened, necessarily. But it does mean that both those questioning and those defending Dr. Caner should have an attitude of brokenness at the accusations involved and the way many (on both sides) have conducted themselves in front of a watching world.

    Perhaps this issue would be resolved more quickly, I wonder, had those involved had not been entangled in previous feuds with each other. There seems to be times when it is better to allow a friend (or at least someone with relative neutrality) to ask tough questions, rather than those who clearly do not like each other to start with.

    Unfortunately, this whole situation as it currently stands is tied up more in the feud between two apologists and their followers over soteriology than about actual issues. I think those involved (on both sides) in the former feud should back out and allow for cooler heads to sort things out. If not, it seems that more heat than light will continue to be generated. (If you don’t believe me, just stroll other blogs related to this topic, and see how quickly the passions and name-calling escalate.)

    [and please do not reply to my comment with debates about the theological issue mentioned in the last paragraph. not the place for that.]

  7. Matt says

    Josh, the problem is that ‘friends’ never ask the hard questions needed to be asked. Are there any neutral? I am certainly trying to be.

    I question Caner’s integrity. I also wonder about Mr. Khan’s reasons and tactics. But my charge is to judge those INSIDE the Body, not the world outside. (1 Corin 5)

    I also believe, at this point, it would be a huge witness to Muslims if Caner would step down in repentance. He got caught fabricating his bio for shock value and to promote himself. That much is quite obvious. It seems the reaction from Caner/Liberty has been to confuse us even more and circle the wagons.

    I think one of the most incredible explanations is that the president of an institution of higher learning does not understand the term ‘debate’ as in debating well known Muslims who claim they have not debated him. Have folks forgotten these claims made by Caner?

    We are either about ALL truth or we are not,as Christians. ALL Truths.

    • says

      Matt,
      Since I don’t know you or your particular involvement in any of this, I can’t really comment as whether you are a neutral party. I was merely pointing out that unfortunately some of the key movers to uncover the “truth” or who rallied in Dr. Caner’s defense were already involved in unrelated spats with Dr. Caner, thus muddying the waters so to speak. I’m not saying that all people doing that are such, just many that I have seen in the blogosphere.

  8. Tony Ja says

    This is to Jason’s last comment. Jason what are you doing? You cant get someone to believe and put their trust in Jesus by just saying ‘do it now’. I could say Mr Khan believe in Superman right now so he will save you other wise you are going to hell. Come on Jason trying to convert someone over a blog is not the best place plus you have not given him a reason to. You say he is going to hell yet he has saved many from it by exposing Dr Caner (if he is a doctor) one of them my son. How can we expect our Muslim brothers and sisters to come to christianity when there are people like Ergan Caner promoting it? What we should be doing is telling people that Ergan Caner does not represent Christianity and to stay away from him.

    • Aron says

      Yes completely agree with Tony Ja,

      Btw Jony Ja is that kung fu actor right? LOL

      But yes merely saying to believe in something is nothing unless there is proofs and evidence. And with a lot of muslims that i come across one thing they tell me is that their religion is based upon proofs and evidence. And this is quite shocking because most religions are just blind faith. So from what I know just to say believe will not help because they do have their proofs and evidences on why they feel their religion is correct.

      And that is why i think its good to study other religions, compare and come together on common terms. Arguing or even lying wont go anywhere. Coming together and discussing through logic and reasoning and not through emotions would defiantly help Christianity and other religions come closer.

      Thats the way i see it. Lifes too short. 100 years ago we were nothing. But now we are here and thats a mirracle. God put us on this world for a purpose to become rightous god fearing good people. Not to argue and deldude people into what you believe.

  9. volfan007 says

    This kind of post is not only pathetic, but it’s sad. It also makes me have a little sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.

    Wow…if you didnt put up what the other blogs were posting on, this would be my last visit to SBC Voices.

    David

    • Matt says

      This sort of comment is what is so confusing in this matter. It is ad hominem lacking any content. Does this sort of response actually work for people in real life? Issues are not discussed concerning content or evidence but simple blanket insults?

      Another interesting aspect of this entire issue is that we do not need Mr. Khan’s website to see the problems with Caner’s own words vs. verifiable facts.

      • Aron says

        Good point mat. We shouldnt need Mr Khans website this man should have been taken down a long time ago. But because so many people blindly follow this man im not supprised why the muslims are doing the job instead.

    • says

      David,

      What exactly is “pathetic” about this post?

      Whats funny is that someone(you) who endorses an approves most of Peter Lumpkins blog is calling this post “pathetic.”

      Do people not try to see objectively at all anymore?

      • volfan007 says

        Matt,

        The reason Peter is posting what he’s doing is due to the incessant attacks on Dr. Caner by 5 point Calvinists, who dont like Caner due to his anti-5 point stance; and by the liberals, who dont like his “fundamentalism.”

        Also, all of these posts by the “Get Caner” crowd are really looking more and more like the Jerry Springer Show. I’m not really interested in character assasinations and Jerry Springer type posts.

        David

        • says

          David,

          First, I have never written anything about about Dr. Caner, ever.

          Second, this post isn’t “attacking” Caner. it is merely asking for questions to be answered and its been awhile since they have been asked. Is there a reason many of the questions Jason has posed have gotten completely ignored? Is there not any validity to his questions?

          Yet, while these valid questions get ignored here you are brushing them off and calling them pathetic. Please, please, try posting and saying something productive.

          I have publicly spoken against White, even at peters blog, when he crosses the line in his dialogues with Caner… But Jason has not crossed a line- he is asking valid questions.

          People like you and peter just dont want the questions to be answered or Caner held accountable for his words so you slam the people asking the questions.

          I think Peter needs to reread his “girly men” post and take a long look in the mirror, along with his “cronies.”

    • says

      David,

      Instead of posting nothing of value- why cant anyone just give decent answers for the questions being raised? That is what is pathetic.

      • volfan007 says

        Oh yes, Matt, let’s all spend our valuable time trying to “get Caner.” Why, we might catch him mis pronouncing an English word…..woooooooooo….then we can all brand him as a fake American. Hallelujah! That will bring revival to the SBC.

        Let’s do it, Matt. C’mon. Call Dr. White and tell him to get all the 5 point Calvinists to get out there and hunt down any and all Pastors who’ve ever made a mistake in their life. Yes, I can see it now. We can start a blog called the SBC Enquirer. No, wait, just change the name of SBC Voices to this. Because, after all, inquiring minds want to know.

        Yes, yes, yes, I can see it now. We’ll start taking pics of Pastors actually taking an hour and a half lunch breaks, instead of an hour. We’ll make this a big deal,and “get him.” We’ll get our crack journalists out there digging up any dirt that we can on any SBC Pastor that we can “get.” Well, on those who dont believe like us, that is. And, we’ll expose them. We’ll be the first to crack the big scoop about Pastor Bubba Barns, who used to drink moonshine a long time ago, and HE STILL LISTENS TO LYNYRD SKYNYRD MUSIC! He should be thrown off the SBC bus. His church should kick him out on his overalls.

        Yes….this sounds great….doesnt it? lol

    • volfan007 says

      Wooooooooo….now, we have Jay showing us the video posts that give us the very revealing facts of this big conspiracy. Stay tuned for more exciting new revelations and expose’s about this person who’s the head of an independent Seminary in Virginia. lol

      David

      • says

        David,

        You denying evidence that Ergun hasnt answered for makes you look like a fool. If these accusations arent true, I dont understand the silence…

      • says

        David,

        Is honesty a virtue in your world? Is lying a sin? The man is giving false information from differing pulpits concerning his Christian testimony. For the love of God, that’s not a conspiracy, but his own words. One can’t even explain such blatant contradiction. It must simply be repented of. What if President Obama said he was born in Kenya and Hawaii? Would that concern you or would anyone who pointed out such an inconsistency be accused of conspiracy? This has nothing to do with Calvinism. If John Piper or R.C. Sproul gave conflicting testimonies, they too would have some serious explaining to do.

    • Aron says

      Yeh how can a man get wrong the country he was born. This is proof he is lieing. Did you check out the video i pasted above it was quite funny.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45oHtODuyKs

      But still i do appreciate the person who wrote a reply to the videos. Even though the arguments are not strong enough but at least they are making an effort. Hopefully they will just accept him as a lier and a froad and maybe caner will loose his job and all the money he has made from his lies.

  10. says

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I congratulate you all on having the courage to look, investigate and call them as you see them. There are a lot of people making a lot of money from the flock who are chrome plated phonies. It’s one big Club. It’s up to you guys and others to “fix” this problem and others within the SBC and carry the message forward to the up coming SBC meeting. I’m only a believer but I have a son with a couple of degrees(legitimate) including one from a Baptist seminary and he doesn’t tolerate bologna. Right is Might. Don’t waste time and energy fighting each other. Change the “rules” Good Luck. As an old man I now have some hope!

    • volfan007 says

      Oh yes, Jack now has hope. After all, if we can just “get Caner” it will make all the ills of the SBC go away. If we can just turn the SBC into the Jerry Springer-Geraldo Rivera show, then we can finally cure what ails the SBC.

      lol

      This is getting more pathetic by the minute.

      • Matt says

        I am having a hard time getting my head around your comments,Volf. They sound a lot like my 16 year old son on a rant.

        You said:

        “Call Dr. White and tell him to get all the 5 point Calvinists to get out there and hunt down any and all Pastors who’ve ever made a mistake in their life.”

        But this is not one mistake. There are ample examples of the bio changing in different venues. There are also the claims of “debating” Muslims who claim to have never debated him nor is there any evidence of said “debates”. Then the term ‘debate’ was qualified to mean casual conversations.

        Caner right now has a serious credibility problem. He represents a Christian institution of higher learning with many young minds putting him on a pedestal. This is something to take seriously.

        In fact, his own fabrications of his past lend more toward the Jerry Springer variety than any questions asked to discern the truth. Caner: Trained as hardened terrorist? Is it not possible for you to see the problems with such a testimony in this day and time?

      • says

        David, again, your comments have been the most pathetic thing about this post- if they continue I will just start deleting. Try something that deals with the issues and questions at hand.

        • volfan007 says

          Matt,

          This whole thing to “get Caner” is because he’s outspoken on Calvinism, and you know it…I know it…everyone that’s willing to see knows it. Also, on the other end of the spectrum, the liberals are jumping in on this crusade, because they love to “get a fundy” anytime they can.

          Matt, I remember Dr. Caner apologizing for exaggerating. I remember Dr. Caner apologizing for mis speaking at times. But, I doubt that this will be enough for the “get Caner” crowd. The apology wasnt good enough, or the aplogoy wasnt worded right, or didnt go far enough, or they cant find it on the internet anymore….will be what’s said about that.

          Also, Matt, I have debated with people many times about different issues. They were not formal debates. lol. They were conversations in person, writing on blogs, etc. I use the word debate when speaking about these things sometimes… do you? I bet you do. Is that lying? No.

          Anyway, we all know what’s this about, and I’m wondering why you’re jumping on the “get Caner” bandwagon. I mean, havent we all seen this enough from “Dr.” White and Debbie K.? Now, it’s SBC Voices, as well?

          David

          • says

            Im not on the “get Caner” bandwagon. Notice, I did not write this post. I just think legitimate questions have been asked and they should be answered.

            Also, I think this is an issue of integrity and honesty, not “calvinism.”

      • Scott says

        The Southern Baptist Convention has been the Jerry Springer Show for decades now.

        Right now, you all must be breathing a sigh of relief that the media is obsessed with the Catholics again.

        Then again, I’ve already read several local newspapers that have detailed that it’s just not the Catholic chuch while documenting Darrell Gilyard and others. How long until that brushfire erupts?

  11. says

    Mr. Khan is himself a deceiver. We should not be using his material to support claims against Dr. Caner.

    There are however inconsistencies in Dr. Caner’s claims that require explanation. These inconsistencies can be found in Dr. Caner’s own words. Furthermore, public records reveal a story much different than what Dr. Caner says. We do not need to turn to the deceptive website of Mr. Khan to find this information.

    Here is a big question: When did Ergun Caner come to America?
    a) 1970 or earlier as public records reveal.
    b) In 1979 as his bio on Libery University’s website says.
    c) In 1981 (age 15) as he has said in his testimony.

    The answer has huge implications because if the answer is C, then maybe he is justified in selling CDs saying he was a hardened terrorist growing up in the Islamic Youth Jihad. Which are claims that he has made. If the answer is A, then Dr. Caner needs to explain why he often gives a testimony indicating otherwise.

  12. says

    this whole post and thread just seems creepy. it doesn’t seem right to publicly question someone about the details of their testimony. i know you said you e-mailed him, but perhaps you should let it stay there. shouldn’t this be a private correspondence? i just don’t get this thread at all. it seems to me an ongoing private dialog should continue before public demands and character questions are made.

    perhaps this thread should be taken down? is it glorifying Christ? is it a good witness? i’m just one, subjective person, but I have to confess at my own blog I’ve taken a couple posts down before. just some thoughts

    • says

      Mike,

      You might be right, I considered taking the post down.

      Here is why I kept it up:

      1) leaders do need to be held accountable.

      2) I believe, I myself, and MANY other have asked Ergun these questions privately, but to no avail- thus, publicly is the only option.

      3) I told Ergun if he made the necessary clarifications to me privately, I would still take this public post down- which I will.

      So yes, I like Jason, but I did consider not posting this. Not because it doesnt raise valid questions, but my thought was – “is it productive?” While I could be wrong, I do think our leaders need held accountable and if it hasnt worked privately, our only option is to do it publicly, if it works it will be deemed productive.

      I could of made a wrong decision in posting, but I don’t believe that I did. I have always respected your(mike fox) opinion and have enjoyed dialoging with you. But, I do assure you I out considerable time in thinking whether or not to let this post stand.

      • says

        thanks for the reply. i’m new to these issues concerning dr. caner and didn’t realize this has been an issue for a while yet he hasn’t seen fit to address it.

    • Matt says

      Mike, Caner is a public teacher of the Word. He is the one who has made this a public matter by his own inconsistencies. Think about the fact he claims to have debated Shabir Ally in Nebraska. It never happened. Perhaps he ran into Shabir at the airport and that was his debate. Did he have a phone conversation with him?

      In fact, what is going on here is an excellent witness. And Caner has an excellent opportunity to make it a very fruitful witness.

      And a lesson for all his young charges who might be tempted to fabricate stories when they are teaching.

      Would you suggest that Paul was in error for publicly rebuking Peter for his very public behavior?

  13. Tom R says

    Yep, Volfan, its just a bunch of malcontents trying to “get Caner”.

    That’s the first reaction when scandal breaks out in the Baptist ranks. Blame the questioners. Blame the reporters. If there are victims, certainly blame them!

    They did it with Gilyard when the allegations first came out. Oh, it was racially motivated, those women saying Gilyard was a sexual devient. No proof, Gilyard’s defenders said. We believe Gilyard becauses he’s such a fine preacher, he’s a “man of Gawd”.

    They even did it with Ed Young when he was found to have leased a plane…fly in the prez of the Florida Baptist convention to tell us how much integrity Ed has….followed by the preacher buddy who defended Ed Young, and spoke negatively about the reporter.

    Baptists do it with sexual deviants like Bob Gray at Trinity – oh, he is a “man of God”, the accusations of abuse are the work of Satan, its people “out to get Gray” because he’s a fundamentalist.

    And now Volfan is falling right in line after a long tradition of the same: when a preacher is caught in scandal (and trust me, the Caner bio flap is a huge scandal that will be busted wide open, probably by the secular media very soon), M.O. is to attack those who question. Make it about the religous views of those who present evidence. Use ad hominem arguments, set up straw men arguments in defense. Volfan adds a bit of twist to this strategy, trying strong doses of sarcasm and condescension. LOVE IT, Volfan…

    Volfan, you and others like you will be so embarrassed when the full scope of Caner’s deceptions are known on a wider scale.

    Thank God we live in America, where we have freedom to blog, and the media has freedom to broadcast.

    Amen and Amen!

    • says

      Tom R,
      You say, “Volfan, you and others like you will be so embarrassed when the full scope of Caner’s deceptions are known on a wider scale.”

      First of all, we should pray that this issue can come to a peaceful end that doesn’t cause more doubt and skepticism from the watching world. NOT be giddy over the prospects of seeing a brother in Christ taken down, or embarrassed, or lose their job. If there are any people really hoping that Dr. Caner is guilty and out at Liberty, check your heart motives. I’ve personally been in a situation where misinformed “Christians” were simply gunning for my job and it’s not fun to go through. We should deal with the facts first, accept whatever consequences they bring, and do so in a way that promotes truth and seeks the eventual good of those involved.

      I appreciate Matt Svobada’s work in communicating with Dr. Caner and (I hope) he is doing so in a Christlike spirit. I applaud his refusal to publish their private email correspondence and wished we had more of that in the SBC blogosphere. If I ran a mile for every private email published online in the SBC in the past few months, I’d be Forrest Gump.

        • says

          Matt,

          Private emails are a good, personal, peaceful way to hopefully communicate and come to an understanding in a Christ like manner.

          Im not sure I understand your problem with private emails.

          Josh,

          I hope I am also doing it in a Christ-like manner. I assume that I am since Dr. Caner has been so willing to communicate with me! I truly thank God for that.

          • Matt says

            Matt, I was referring to the reason for the need for so many private emails that one would not want published. Denotes a deeper problem, friend.

            I was referring to this:

            If I ran a mile for every private email published online in the SBC in the past few months, I’d be Forrest Gump.

            I would think at this point, Mr. Caner would not want backchannels but light.

  14. Tony Ja says

    My question is to Jason Smathers. You said the following “Mr. Khan is himself a deceiver. We should not be using his material to support claims against Dr. Caner.”

    Can i ask that you prove this as I have seen almost all of his videos and so has my wife and son and even some of my family members and we never found Mr Khan to be decieving not once

    Please justify your statement or simply take it back

    Thank you

    • says

      Tony Ja,

      Take a look at my blog post, Ergun Caner’s Secret Biography, at http://blog.witnessesuntome.com/2010/03/ergun-caners-secret-biography.html then compare it to Mr. Khan’s web page titled The Real Biography of Ergun Caner.

      When you do this, you will notice that the majority of my words are reprinted by Mr. Khan, as if they were his own. He has today added a brief attribution for the source of his documents, but still continues to take my words and represent them as his own. If you look through his words, he has simply copied and pasted my post, adding a few things and changing around a few things, but the majority of my post remains in tact on his website where he represents my words as his own. When I asked him to remedy his plagiarism, he responded saying that he has the right to copy anything on the Internet unless it is for sale. In effect, Mr. Khan is saying that if it is easy to steal, it is acceptable to steal.

      I also recommend that you read over this blog for an objective criticism of Mr. Khan’s comments on Dr. Caner: http://turretinfan.blogspot.com/2010/03/response-to-fake-ex-muslims-part-3.html

      Blessings,
      Jason

      • says

        You must ensure that what you have written about me in this comment actually reflects what I told you, because if I chose to publish my message that I sent you, your statements that you have made about me will be proven to have been blown out of proportion and exaggerated, similar to the fashion of Ergun who exaggerates, lies and manipulates Islamic texts and then attributes the incorrect and exaggerated conclusion to the beliefs of Muslims worldwide. I will respond to this post in the near future.

        • says

          I of course disagree, but will wait to see you full post before responding at length.

          I remain firm that copying my exact words and posting them as your own is plagiarism and I am disturbed that your response to me was one defending your actions. I speak of my own words, not the public records, which are just that – public record freely available to anyone that walks into the court house.

          You can use copyscape to see how many of my exact words are reprinted word for word without attribution on your own post: http://www.copyscape.com/original.php?o=36679&d=36684&w=20&i=3&r=3#copyscape_start

          Every highlighted portion is text that you copied and pasted and called your own. Most of the parts that are not highlighted are due to slight word order changes or rephrasing. When I approached you in private, you defended your actions. The thoughts and words are not your own and require attribution.

  15. Tom R says

    Mike Fox – let me tell you what is “creepy”.

    What is creepy is when I listened to Caner’s 11/20/01 sermon last week, 8 years after I first heard it live at FBC Jax as a member in the congregation.

    How creepy was it to hear that this man stood in front of us to claim he was “raised in Europe”, until the age of 15 was trained in “Islamic Youth Jihad”, and came to “Ah-meer-di-cah” at age of 15 to become someone who was “trained to do that which was done on 11 September”.

    What is very creepy is a man who would do that, to use the 9/11 tragedy and our still raw emotions, to come to our church and paint himself as one of THEM, to launch himself as an expert in all things Islam.

    That, sir, is “creepy”.

    And it deservers to be exposed and discussed and ultimately explained.

  16. Jay Vance says

    Just for the record, I don’t come from a Southern Baptist background, and what little of the Calvinism-Arminianism debate I’ve encountered during my few years in SBC circles makes my eyes cross, my head spin and my stomach hurt. Believe me when I say that discussion is WAY down the list of things I care about. Furthermore, I know what it’s like for the breath of truth to inconveniently blow down MY little house of cards, so far be it from me to cast stones. But TRUTH is exactly the whole point here, isn’t it?

  17. adam says

    to mat svoboda

    “***For The Record: I, Matt Svoboda(blog editor) has contacted Ergun Caner and I told him if he could give me anything showing that Jasons accusations are false then I would immediately take the blog down. He made a couple of points, but failed to answer about the “timeline/raised in predominantly Muslim country” questions. That being said, I believe Ergun plans to continue to respond to me. I will not post the messages/emails because I gave him my word that I wouldnt.”

    no1 will believe u unless u post his actual statements, whats the point of ergun explainin the problems 2 u privately, wat does that achieve? definately sumthin fishy goin on here

    • says

      Adam,

      If he would of explained these things to me sufficiently it most certainly would of achieved something- I told him Id delete the post if he proved Jasons statements as false.

      If he does not want to go “public” that is his choose, I told him I wouldnt publish our interactions and I wont because I gave him my word. If he would of proved them false this post would be taken down immediately.

  18. says

    Truth is the whole point. That a person is a crook and will steal then begs the question of what he has stolen. If someone has prostituted themselves then the question is how much money does it take. Once people are charged in public others usually come forward with other accusations. When it gets to people abusing others by using their “position” or “titles” in the church then you’re talking about destroying peoples lives and the ruinination of their faith. For children to have this experience is horrible. People are leaving the denomination because of this stuff rather than fight it. People joke -SBC means “Slowly Becoming Catholic”. I know this to be a fact in spite of their current problems. The Money has left and continues to leave our churchs. What is left won’t support us in the lifestyle to which we are accustomed.The people that are left can either fix it or stay to try to get a retirement or just die hopeing that a miracle turns things around. A once proud professional that once occupied our pulpits is slowly being replaced with a nothing “who’s good because he doesn’t charge anything” If the restaurant is losing money and you take meat from the sandwichs then guess what happens. The “meat” is leaving our churchs and what is left in many cases are old people and the sick and infirm. You can either “fall on your knees” or “Stand up, Stand up”. But to do nothing is exactly what you’ll get – and deserve. Is there a Doctor in the House, or Air Line Captain or just somebody with a fake piece of paper that doesn’t mean anything that can stand in? It’s you’re future and it doesn’t come without a price.

    • volfan007 says

      Witch hunt

      White whale hunt

      “get Caner”

      And, we take the words of Muslims about this whole thing. Like they wouldnt have a reason for “getting Caner.” lol

      David

      • Matt says

        I asked this earlier, Volf:

        ” Think about the fact he claims to have debated Shabir Ally in Nebraska. It never happened. Perhaps he ran into Shabir at the airport and that was his debate. Did he have a phone conversation with him?”

        Have you seen an explanation about the claim of debating Shabir? Has Caner met him? Talked with him by phone or e-mail in an informal debate? This claim should be relatively simple to answer directly. But Caner has not.

        FWIW: This is a believer asking. A believer who watched the debate of Shabir and Jay Smith in Toronto. Shabir does debate Christian scholars and would most likely keep track of exchanges how ever informal.

  19. volfan007 says

    Matt,

    This whole post and the comments are the most un-Christlike thing I’ve seen in…well, I dont want to go there, because a whole host of his followers will attack me to the Nth degree.

    I really want to encourage you to cease and end this. It’s sad, and it’s getting sadder by the minute.

    David

    • says

      David,

      Instead of speaking in bland, useless generalities post something productive. You have failed over and over again to make one substantive claim about the “unchristlikeness” of this post. Making baseless accusation is a waste of time, so please stop or I will just delete your comments. Jason, on the other hand, is not making “baseless” accusations- he is asking serious questions in order for truth and integrity to be upheld.

      What has been unchristlike, exactly? Trying to hold a leader accountable for their words and actions? That seems to be very Christ-like to me. Asking valid questions that need answers?

      Again, this is not my post. I am letting it continue… If you think it should be removed talk to the author of the post. Im the Editor, yes, but I see no grounds for me removing this particular post.

      Also, before you judged me or the “camp” you think I am in, wait until my post comes out tomorrow. I wrote it early today and it will be posted early tomorrow morning.

  20. Matt2239 says

    I posted this erroneously on another blog thread blasting Caner. It should have gone here. My apologies.

    Matt S. I’m no fan of nor enemy of Egun Caner. As a preacher of nearly 32 years, I’m sure I’ve made my share of misstatements and such. My life certainly would not fare much better with the same brutal attacks blogged about here. Particularly disturbing is Aron. I’m surprised you would allow someone to make fun of another person’s blog picture. How that advances Christianity in any way, I must admit, confuses me. I see nothing “christian” about any of Aron’s comments. I find his attitude disturbing at the least and disgusting at its worst. This is your blog and you can allow whatever you want, but for what it’s worth — perhaps 2 cents — I think some of the posters have an agenda that is less than honorable.

  21. Matt2239 says

    Someone commented, “Truth is the point.” You hear this a lot on so-called “Christian” blogs. As long as something is true — however hurtful — it must be presented. That however is not what the Word of God teaches. Solomon said, “It is the glory of God to conceal a matter [grace], but the glory of kings to search out a matter [power]” (Prv. 25:2). When John describes Jesus he uses very specific terms in a very specific order, “The only begotten of the Father full of GRACE and truth” (Jn. 1:14). It took me many years in ministry to learn to apply this principle. I failed many times — especially in the unrelational environment of blogs. I’m just suggesting a little grace might make the pronouncement of the truth sound a little more legitimate.

  22. Chief Katie says

    I find all of this to be very distressing. There is nothing quite so unseemly as Christians bashing Christians. Yet here we are.

    We can blame each other, the Calvinists, the bloggers on both sides. But the truth is, Dr. Caner made this an issue by embellishing his family history and education. It appears that the only course of action for him is to either continue to lie (or make excuses) or tell the truth. If he had been completely truthful, the likes of Mr. Khan would have never had an opportunity to post his evidences on the web.

    I’d bet that most of us have made our own lives ‘more colorful’ by adding a few embellishments to it. I am guilty of that and only the GRACE of Jesus could have ever made me whole.

    Only Dr. Caner can provide a full accounting. However, the body of Christ does not have to (nor should it) endorse Dr. Caner’s actions. If Dr. Caner is really concerned about the body of believers, then he will either tell the truth and await the outcome, or resign from his position and seek the face of God.

    There have been many examples of Christians having lost their way, and then put their feet upon the right path. Dr. Caner shouldn’t be any different. I would be the first to extend full forgiveness to him.

  23. Aron says

    The main point is that i can see most people here realise is that the guy is a lier. But most importantly he has lied to his own fans and audiances. So the best thing to do it let everyone who supports him know which all the proof that is out there. And if anyone still wishes to support that man then they can do what they like.

  24. Jay Vance says

    What I mean by “truth is the point” is that I don’t care what Ergun Caner’s theology is and I have no hidden agenda to undermine him. I have no reason or desire to see him brought low. I would just like to know the truth, and even more important, he needs to TELL the truth, regardless of whether or not it puts him in a bad light, is embarrassing, or provides ammunition for his critics. Again, I speak as someone who has been through the process of having to own up to the truth after trying to hide from it, so I can sympathize with how hard it is to do. But I also know that living a lie eats a person up from the inside, and thankfully God loves His children too much to let deceit destroy them.

  25. says

    Hariette,

    You were right, the Lumpkins comments and the ones preceeding them were out of place. I have deleted them and now I have shut down the comments to this thread because good conversation stopped on this thread a few days ago.

    Matt

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