I offer the following email exchange that will clarify Dr. Richard Land’s views on Mormonism and my response:
First message from Sam Dahl:
Dr. McKissic, just wanted to send you a quick FYI about Dr. Land’s position on Mormonism. Here are a few quotes from the article linked below that he wrote for The Christian Post that might give some clarity.
When the theologically uninitiated hear this answer (that Mormonism is a cult) they immediately think “Branch Davidians” or “Jim Jones,” and there is a cognitive disconnect. When most people hear Mormonism described as a “cult” they think, “No, that can’t be right. A Mormon is president of my Rotary Club or coaches my children’s soccer teams.”
The problem is that while Mormonism may technically be a cult theologically, in that it has moved well beyond the parameters of orthodox, apostle’s creed Trinitarian Christianity, it does not behave as a cult culturally or socially.
For nearly two millennia the basic Trinitarian formulation of the Christian faith has been accepted by Catholics and Protestants alike and it is not open to self-definition or reformulation. Christianity has objective, theologically defined parameters which Mormonism has clearly moved well beyond.
Mormons, Christianity and Presidential Elections
This quote from another Christian Post article, Mormonism Debate: What Is a Cult?, may also shed further light on his position.
Due to the misunderstanding that could result from the two different definitions of cult, Land explained, he does not use the word “cult” to describe the LDS Church, “even though it’s theologically accurate.””
Please let us know if we can serve you in the future.
Thanks,
Sam Dahl
Office of the President
The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission
615-782-8405
sdahl@erlc.com
My response:
Bro. Dahl,
Thanks for the “Richard Land on Mormonism” email. This is a more complete expression of Dr. Land’s stand on Mormonism.
While I believe that the timing is inappropriate to come forth with the distinctions on Mormonism (leaves one open to the charge of pushing a political agenda) and the designation of Mormonism as a “fourth great Abrahamic faith” is historically, theologically and biblically inaccurate, I do see now where, clearly, Dr. Land views Mormonism as a cult, but simply prefers not to use the term for the reasons stated in the email.
To the extent that my comments on this matter at SBC Voices and my blog have misrepresented Dr. Land (not being heretofore apprised of the information contained in the aforementioned email), I sincerely offer an apology for stating emphatically that Dr. Land was denying that Mormonism is a cult.
Finally, I would like to post this email I’m sending you and the one you sent to me on my blog and submit it to SBC Voices (both unedited) requesting they publish it also. Without your approval, I will not post it. But with or without approval, again, please accept my apology.
Dwight McKissic
Final Response from Sam Dahl:
Dr. McKissic, thank you for your email; Dr. Land appreciates your response and apology. You certainly have his and my permission to publish those emails in the aforementioned places. As another FYI, when it comes to the question of timing, the first time we can ascertain that Dr. Land suggested that perhaps the most charitable way to view Mormonism is as the 4th Abrahamic religion was at the end of 2007 when he was interviewed on December 26 for a documentary titled Article VI that was released in 2008. We appreciate your gracious humility and certainly have no hard feelings or ill will toward you. As always, we stand ready to serve you if there is any way we can. Thanks,
Sam Dahl
Office of the President
The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission
615-782-8405
sdahl@erlc.com
In the final response I do not see the phrase, “You’re forgiven.” I have seen this response so many times in the SBC circles. Have we not understood the importance of forgiving someone. There is not a desire within the SBC to make that “statement” for some reason and has become my hot button in recent years. Why do people not say the words, “You are forgiven.” when someone apologizes? I think it is false humility. I mean that in a nice way.
Mormonism slaps Jesus in the face and the fact that they want to adopt the moral compass of the Scriptures, however have altered the Truth of Jesus, I do not care how you want to say it, or how you want to sugar coat it, Mormonism has always been and still is a CULT. It is a false religion that is preaching a false Gospel. I am so astonished by the endorsement of so many believers and the PC game they are playing with the eternal souls of so many. Do we serve America or do we serve God. This… Read more »
Dwight,
I was wondering about your thoughts, Do you think in this stage of the game, Dr. Land is politically motivated.
Jess,
An article appeared on “Christian Post” today, by Dr. Land ,endorsing Mitt Romney. Therefore, we don’t have to guess about him being politically motivated. By his own admission, he is.
Dwight, Being politically involved does not equate to being “politically motivated” to mislead Southern Baptists. Even one who plans NOT to vote, is making a “political” statement no matter how much one tries to dip that response in piety. Again, your post lacks a certain air of fairness in regard to Dr. Land. I believe he has as much right to endorse Romney irrespective of Romney’s bad theology, as much as you have on numerous occasions endorsed Obama with his bad theology. The difference being of course: Romney the Mormon has political views more in line with Obama the “?”… Read more »
Maybe I’m missing something in all this talk about a Christian requirement for political candidates. Why is it coming up now? America is not a “theocracy” and the President is not a king (prophet, or priest). I think that “give unto Caesar” applies to one’s political involvement as a citizen of the U.S. If one chooses to abstain from politics, then one it seems to me, should abstain from political discussions. Personally, I think one could make a strong, Biblical case that abstaining from participating in the political process is an abdication of one’s responsibility to be a “good citizen”… Read more »
The Supreme Court had it all wrong in 1792 and, again, in 1892, when it ruled that the US was a Christian nation. Being a Christian nation it did allow for people who were Jewish or otherwise to run for office. The secularists have clearly warped the interpretation of the U.S. Constitution to suit their own agendas just as they have altered our history in order to read out it any references that are clearly Christian….including the fact that it was the Christians who introduced into law and practice religious liberty, beginning with Roger Williams and Dr. John Clarke and… Read more »
Dwight, I am at a cabin with minimal internet. I can’t manage the comments well. I thank you for your honorable correction in this post. I regret the pettiness of some of the comments.
And before everyone gets their knickers in a knot, when I delete a comment I also delete comments that reply to the deleted comment.
Joe, Tom’s anticipated reaction aside, I do not think that Dwight’s apology–sincere or not–is the end of the matter. I am more concerned with Dwight’s willingness to throw Dr. Land under the bus in a clearly “political” manner. Dwight has a “political” agenda he has mentioned more than once in regard to the election. It is all well and good to apologize when you are clearly in the wrong. But, it does not go to the “political” nature of Dwight’s post which began with Dwight’s opinion piece on why he was not “voting” for Romney. As I said in my… Read more »
PS–In case I am not clear: I assume Dwight’s apology is sincere and heartfelt.
That, for me, is a separate issue.
Why is it to be opposed to Romney, and to bring it out at this time, is a ‘political agenda?’ I would think that any true Christian who loves the Lord Jesus Christ would not vote for Romney, esp. because of what his aberrant and blasphemous doctrines are, i.e. Jesus Christ is a brother of Lucifer; and God came down from heaven and had physical sex with Mary? I wonder what God says about that! Amen.
“””any true Christian””””
Voting for Romney and being “a true Christian” as you say are not connected in any way.
“”””I wonder what God says about that! Amen.”””
It seems clear what God says about that . . . nothing.
Thanks, brother Jonathan, for your comment. You hit it right where it counts. Amen.
Yes, Frank L., voting for Romney and being a true Christian are definitely connected. Where in the Word of God does it give us the option to separate God’s truth from man’s lies? Another thing, God does have very much to say about all this; for we cannot separate politics from our faith. In fact, our faith in Christ should be the basis for whom we vote into office. Besides, evangelicals may vote for Romney and God can still put Obama back into office; and this as a means of judgment against America; and the fault will lie on America’s… Read more »
“”””Where in the Word of God does it give us the option to separate God’s truth from man’s lies?””””
Where in the Word of God does it declare that one can only vote for a Christian for President of the United States?
“”””Besides, evangelicals may vote for Romney and God can still put Obama back into office;”””””
Blaming God for Obama is sort of like blaming God for a train wreck.
Not, if one reads the Bible. He has recorded His response in Holy Scripture. Jesus said, the scripture was “God speaking to you.”(Mt.22:31)
Lasaro Flores,
I think it is just a sign of the end times.
What Dr. Land is doing is equal to taking a pile of dung and placeing icecream on top and saying, now it’s more palatable. I don’t care what anyone says it’s wrong. The Republicans are up in arms about insurances having to pay for birth control. They are against it. Don’t they know abortions will go up. Has people forgotten about the forty seven percent, whose benefits will be cut if Romney gets in office. The forty seven percent includes the elderly, the disabled, the veterens, the mentally unstable,and there is a few that is underserving. I’m on the verge… Read more »
“”””The Republicans are up in arms about insurances having to pay for birth control. They are against it. Don’t they know abortions will go up. Has people forgotten about the forty seven percent, whose benefits will be cut if Romney gets in office. The forty seven percent includes the elderly, the disabled, the veterens, the mentally unstable,and there is a few that is underserving””””” This is just plain nonsense. I would not be surprised if someone believing this would vote for Obama. But, here’s an absolute no brainer: under Obama, babies will continue to be killed while being delivered, and… Read more »
Tom,
I’m sure you are aware that America was not a nation when the Bible was written. However, you can find principles for who to vote for this election scattered throughout the Bible.
In fact, I’m going to give those principles to my congregation this Sunday, Lord willing, to show them exactly who they should vote for based upon Biblical principles.
For a Love Gift of $39.99 I’ll send you a copy of my message.
Figuring out how to vote biblically: 1) Make a list of all the issues (abortion, gay “rights”, immigration reform, etc…) 2) Put three columns beside those issues. 3) In on column, put what position Democrats take. In another column, put what position Republicans take. In the last column, put the position God takes as revealed in scripture. There will be NOT ONE CASE that the position Democrats take on the issues lines up with what God says. In fact, most of the time, they take the OPPOSITE position. There will be a few times that the positions that Republicans take… Read more »
There are more than two parties…
Republican, Democrat, and Ron Paul fans?
Constitution Party… Libertarian Party… do some research and stop blindly following what the media pushes at you.
Jonathan,
There are some 12 names listed for president on my area’s sample ballot, so you left out a few! Stop blindly holding to just the four parties being pushed on you!
In grammer “…” means there is more there and not all was listed.
A friend of mine use to have the president of the Constitution Party in his church. The fellow was a member of a Harvard family that kicked him out, because he refused to go along with their agenda of destroying the world. The fellow even gave my friend a couple of the books I recommended long ago, one in particular is Carroll Quigley’s Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Modern Times. It is the dullest history I have ever read until you get to the parts where it admits a conspiracy runs the world. Quigley’s second work,… Read more »
There are more than two parties…
Only one of those two parties will be in the White House in January. Until such time as a viable 3rd party exists, those are the only two real choices.
Jonathan,
That may be true, but only one of two men are going to be elected on November 6th. There is not a single viable third party candidate.
Joe,
would you share with us your interpretation of what God has to say about immigration reform?
I ask this because I have never heard anyone mention that God had a position on this issue.
Mitch:
You said to Joe Blackmon:”Joe, would you share with us your interpretation of what God has to say about immigration reform?
I ask this because I have never heard anyone mention that God had a position on this issue.”
I want to hear his interpretation of what God has to say about immigration reform also.
I’ll even say please, Joe.
would you share with us your interpretation of what God has to say about immigration reform?
I ask this because I have never heard anyone mention that God had a position on this issue.
I agree. I don’t think there is a scripture that speaks to imigration reform. Therefore, a Christian can look to see which party has a position that makes sense, I guess. Of course, that wouldn’t be the Democrats. Also, considering that the Democrats take the exact opposite position that God takes on abortions since are pro-abortion that makes the choice clear.
Joe, Although others might have taken my question as sarcastic or trying to be argumentative, I sincerely asked that question to gain insight from you. I find the immigration issue problematic and multidimensional and was curious if there might be something from scripture I was missing. Thanks for your honesty and I agree, christian voters should decide which party has a plan or supports a plan that aligns with their individual position as far as the issue of immigration is concerned. I have read several books from a christian perspective on the issue of immigration and found that material challenging… Read more »
I think now might be a good time for some of you to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of immature school children when it comes to Mormanism cult or not. Most of the negativity here sounds like: (childs voice)/ Uh-uh, my God can beat up your cult any day… and twice on Sunday. Do you really think that the God of the universe needs you to defend Himself? Do you really think that the technical description of “4th great Abrahamic religion” causes God or Abraham to cringe? Judaism, the 1st Abrahamic religion was perverted anywhere from 5-15days… Read more »
Greg, The timing,(2007 when Romney was running in the 2008 Presidential campaign) and the motivation for declaring Mormonism the “fourth great Abrahamic faith” is highly suspect. There is no justification for using such lofty language to describe a cult, other than for political purposes. For Southern Baptists/evangelicals to seek to justify and defend this unusual description of Mormonism–as you have done in this comment thread– is really disheartening. Nevertheless, Mormonism is a cult–and it is not by any stretch, shape, form, or imagination–even as hard as you tried–anything else but a cult. Only during an election season will the SBC/evangelicals… Read more »
the motivation for declaring Mormonism the “fourth great Abrahamic faith” is highly suspect
No it isn’t. Quite obviously what he meant was Mormonism is one of four worldwide religions that claim Abraham as their father. Land isn’t making this political. You obviously are in support of your beloved president despite your protestations to the contrary.
Baloney! Joe, you are totally ignoring the reality of racism with which Dr. McKissic has had to contend all of his life. Things might be a little better now, but in some areas being a Black person can still put one in danger just as being a White person can d-o the same in some areas. I voted for McCain though I wanted to vote for Obama, because he was Black. However, knowing his stand on abortion, I could not in good conscience vote for him. The same still applies today with the added force of now seeing my tax… Read more »
Dwight, You ascribe too lofty a goal to my writing to say that I’m “seeking to justify and defend this unusual description.” I’m merely saying, that in a political contest, it makes no difference. If the sheep aren’t swayed by the utterances of Obama, Romney, or their surrogates, they will not be swayed by the off-handed comments of Land. As for Mormonism, I differ with both Land and Stetzer and count it as a theological and sociological cult. It was started by a swindler who’s modus operandi was to use a “seeing stone” or “looking glass” to look for buried… Read more »
Greg,
You tell me; I am unaware of anything in Ovama’s religion that would dissuade voters. If y are aware of something educate me?
Greg,
You ascribe a belief system to President Obama that I have not heard or been told that he believes and neither are those beliefs you ascribe to him found in the book–the Bible–that he would consider as the authoritative or guiding book of his faith. So if you know for certain–not mere speculation– that Obama has religious beliefs that would dissuade others from voting for him, you ought to tell us; don’t you think?
Ok. You win. I’m bowing out.
My observations of his time in office, the pastor he sat under for 20 years, his pronouncements about his faith… it’s my opinion. I don’t know him personally and I doubt anyone here knows him personally.
But, since I don’t know him personally, I concede to your ad hominum that I am not qualified to make these observations.
I couldn’t sleep after this… I have one more thing to add:
For the record, Dwight, I agree that the timing is questionable. However, I don’t think it makes a difference. The label is irrelevant.
Greg:
How do you know that President Obama is not a Christian?
I’ve heard you and others speak of Black Liberation Theology but how do you know that is what President Obama believes in?
Doomsday, Nothing, Greg. The Doomsday cult is really getting ready for a time of great severity, when the grocery stories will not have groceries being delivered to them. About three days after the trucks stop delivering, all Hell will break loose. And the Cult boys know it from what Mormonism imbibed from the secret societies or, at least, from some of those societies. Remember the Illuminati against which Washington wrote? They are the group with the agenda to establish socialism of the commie variety. All that will spare us is a Third Great Awakening for which I pray every day.… Read more »
Would youall read up on Mormonism, “please.”
Jess,
I don’t understand why you think you are the only one that knows anything about Mormonism. Currently I’m writing this while sitting in an office about a block away from a large Mormon Stake.
My views on Mormonism has not changed in over 35 years of ministry.
I thought we were talking about “voting.”
Dwight had done what it right. Dr. Land is wrong. I just wish someone would read up on mormonism, and you will feel the way I do.
Jess:
You said:”Dwight had done what it right. Dr. Land is wrong.”
For some in SBC life it is not possible for Dr. Land to be wrong and it is just easier to attack someone else–Dwight in this instance- and deflect attention away from Dr. Land.
Tom,
Before you attack others falsely, you might want to at least read the title of this blog.
Tom Parker,
I agree 100%.
Well, Jess, since Tom is wrong about me, at best he can only be 99% correct.
Also, I have greatly appreciated Dr. Land’s ministry for the most part.
Especially since I knew his predecessor.
In much of the N.T. we read about false teachers and false prophets and the dangers of following them. There are people that are decevied by them, and are going to hell too. The reason I said we are in the last days is the headline news. Every word that Romney speaks is a lie. Who knows what he will say next. Just read the Mormon doctrine it will scare you to death.
You really should look up the context of “following” before you paint with so broad a brush. If you voted for George Bush I did you become an Episcopalian? If you voted for George Bush II did you become a Methodist? If you voted for Ronald Reagan did you become member of Disciples of Christ? Voting for Romney as a conservative… well, sort of conservative… well more conservative than Obama does not mean you or anyone will automatically become a Mormon and follow it’s teachings. If I am wrong, then you have a faith issue bigger than for whom you… Read more »
Jess: Have you every read I Jn.2:18, “it is the last hour.” That was written 2000 years ago. The Bible is far deeper than we can comprehend, deeper than we can imagine. After all, it is inspired by Omniscience. My study of it from the perspective of intellectualism led me to be able to grasp how it makes believers balanced, flexible, creative, constant, and magnetic. Brethren, My prayer is for a victory that will win every soul on earth beginning hopefully with this generation and continue for a 1000 generations (anywhere from 20,000 to 500,000 or more years, depending on… Read more »
Greg Buchanan, Thank you for your comment, and being a gentleman about it. I don’t know you but I like you already. I believe Romney and Ryan are on the same page even though Romney is acting like a moderate. I sincerely believe both are severe conseratives. If, they were to get in office,no doubt they would try to pass the personhood amendment. Which means if the baby can take the mother’s life, the pregnancy cannot be terminated. If they were to get in office, I look for church offerings to go down because of cuts. If they were to… Read more »
In grammer “…” means there is more there and not all was listed.
Since this post is an open apology from one Texan to another Texan, I want to take this opportunity to make an apology myself. I apologize to all of you FOOTBALL fans out there because all of you who live in Lesser FOOTBALL Conferences have so little for which to cheer, knowing in your hearts that the SEC is so far beyond and above your FOOTBALL Conferences. In addition, I apologize to those of you who live in the fine Southland state of MIssissippi for dashing the MISSISSIPPI STATE NATION’S hopes of having a perfect season. I just want you… Read more »
BTW, I think the NCAA is going to change the rules this year and just give the whole SABANATION the Heisman Trophy. I think that is a fair move on the part of the NCAA as I am sure all of you FOOTBALL Fans out there will heartily agree.
CB, I was wondering how long one of these comment threads would go without some kind of word from you. Let it be known that I, a bonafide PAC 12 and Oregon Duck follower, am offering prayer, petition, and supplication to our Lord that He would guide A. J. McCarron to the Dallas Cowboys.
Still trying to figure out who spiked the Bulldog’s water bowls. Nothing else can explain Alabama beating Mississippi.
I don’t comment very often, but I feel compelled to inform everyone that there is an obvious conspiracy afoot to orchestrate by any means necessary an Alabama/Notre Dame national championship game. Millions of dollars are at stake.
what’s all this nonsense? don’t you know how the president is elected? its not by popular vote. your vote does not count. you are wasting your time casting a vote for president. but if you insist on wasting your time by casting an unconstitutional vote for president you are not limited to voting for obama or romney. you can vote for gary johnson. you can write in ron paul. or mickey mouse. or jesus christ. or anyone else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constitution read these articles carefully and realize the popular vote has never and will never determine who becomes president. your vote… Read more »
or you can not vote at all as I am planning on doing. It does make a difference. The number of voters at the poll is noticed and if it is down it is noticed. It does make a statement.
I cannot go against my conscience and will not be voting again this year. Until we get better Presidential candidates I will not vote.
Or you can vote like I am and like I am telling my congregation: Romney is FOR the Sanctity of Life, Obama against. Romney is FOR the Sanctity of Marriage, Obama is against. Romney is FOR the Sanctity of Private Property, Obama is against. There’s a voter’s guide in Romans 13, especially verse 9 as noted above. God has told us who to vote for in the next election. To not vote, or to vote for a candidate that is “clearly outside of the values” as outlined in Romans 13:9 (Exodus 20) would be to act in disobedience. My Sermon… Read more »
To not vote, or to vote for a candidate that is “clearly outside of the values” as outlined in Romans 13:9 (Exodus 20) would be to act in disobedience.
I’m sorry. That was too good of a point to only be in this comment thread once.
Greg:
You said to Dwight:”But, since I don’t know him personally, I concede to your ad hominum that I am not qualified to make these observations.”
I don’t know about the hominum stuff, but you are not qualified to make the call about President Obama’s salvation experience.
One last thought, are you willing to make as big a deal about Romney’s salvation experience?
Romney is a confessed Mormon: I know he is still on the fast track to Hell. Nothing to discuss.
I’m not certain as to the president’s salvation; that is for God to decide.
In my observation, he demonstrates fruit of his faith in Marxism and “Rules for Radicals” more than he demonstrates the fruit found in Galatians 5.
But, that is just my opinion.
CNN has a current post about Obama’s faith.
CNN? How pitiful to grasp at such straws as some of you do. Neither the sitting president, nor the challenger are born-again children of God. Our choice is between a Mormon (follower of a false, Christ-less religion) and a Neo-Pagan. Yes, some may decide not to vote and I am willing to go to war to protect their right not to vote. However, I shall vote. I shall vote for the Mormon. I shall vote for him in hope that he will do more to protect the unborn than the Neo-Pagan who has promised to allow the murder of the… Read more »
CB: You use the word Neo-Pagan and you probably do not even know what it means. Is it code for “Liberal.”? As a Pastor what are you telling your congregation about the fact that I am sure you have preached that Mormonism is a cult for years but now you will vote for the President of the United States who is a Mormon. Seems hypocritical to me. BTW how do you no President Obama is Christ less? Are you really allowed to make such a call? Sure are some changing times for leaders of the SBC. What will you do… Read more »
As a Pastor what are you telling your congregation about the fact that I am sure you have preached that Mormonism is a cult for years but now you will vote for the President of the United States who is a Mormon. Seems hypocritical to me.
Point to the Bible verse that says you can only vote for a Christian. No, I didn’t say please. If you’re going to make such a ridiculous statement, you don’t deserve people being polite to you.
Tom Parker, 1). I do not make a habit of using words of which I know not what they mean. Liberals are not necessarily Neo-Pagans. Actually there are both conservatives and liberals among the ranks of the New Pagans among us. 2). If you had read my comment above without the blindness of your own bitterness toward me as a CR veteran, you would have an understanding of what I share with congregants or anyone else as to what I believe about the president and the challenger. 3). Tom Parker, I don’t really care what “seems hypocritical” to you. You… Read more »
Here! Here! Honorable CB.
Hopefully Obama will read it along with other works of fiction like, “A Post-American World.”
Frank L,
Are you in reference to the CNN special or did you have something else in mind?
It’s a reference to a book that Obama has been seen carrying.
The implication, though it is most likely hyperbole and irony, is that Obama is fulfilling the destiny outlined in the book.
Frank L.,
Obviously I have missed something in this thread. Therefore, I am curious.
You stated: “Hopefully Obama will read it along with other works of fiction like, “A Post-American World.”
What is the “it” that the president will “hopefully” read?
Tom Parker,
I believe that God has a position on the issue of immigration. Remember when Christ ascended up in a cloud, the disciples were content staying in Jerusalem, and God used persecution to scatter them all over the world.
I believe that God has a position on the issue of immigration. Remember when Christ ascended up in a cloud, the disciples were content staying in Jerusalem, and God used persecution to scatter them all over the world.
What pedantic nonsense. God is not having Mexican’ts break the law for the speading of the gospel. We have every right as a nation to make our immigration laws as harsh or as easy as we want. Personally, I think they’re way too lax and the punishment should be much more harsh.
“””God used persecution to scatter them all over the world.”””
That’s called “emigration.”
God certainly does have an opinion on immigration.
“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God” (Leviticus 19:33-34, NIV).
Although reasonable people disagree on how we should apply this principle, I’ve known godly ones who take it to mean that government restriction of immigration is unbiblical.
Although reasonable people disagree on how we should apply this principle, I’ve known godly ones who take it to mean that government restriction of immigration is unbiblical.
Now it doesn’t. Further, the passage you cited as God’s opinion on immigration was God talking to the Nation of Israel, not making a blanket once-for-all-forever- prohibition of a country making its own immigration policy.
Yes, the entire Mosaic Law was essentially, “God talking to the Nation of Israel,” as you say. It’s all still relevant.
And it doesn’t apply to the government of the United States. It applied only to the Nation of Israel. God has no problem whatsoever with our immigration policy. Besides, isn’t that part of the Bible that you moderates are constantly blathering about not being truly scripture anyway? I mean, you’re constantly bellowing how the prohibition on homosexuality in the OT is only prejudice by people who were homophobes, right? So that part of the Bible is make believe but the part about strangers in the land is applicable to the United States government???? What a bunch of nonsense.
There are other passages, however, that discuss Israel’s relationship to outsiders as “hostile and non-welcoming, and even prescriptively exhorting Israel to remain separate.”
I don’t think you are going to be able to apply theocratic principles directly to a Constitutional Republic.
I would argue, America is “welcoming” to many foreigners, just not criminals, which by definition applies to “illegal” immigrants.
This is sorta funny if it wasn’t sad. To see the SB leaders and pastors jump through religious hoops and do theological gymnastics to suddenly after many years calling , training having programs teaching that Mormonism is a cult, now in order that they might “save America” (not the same as Christ saving America) they now have twisted all that so they can endorse a CULT member for president and make it appear somehow just fine. Neither Obama nor Romney are Christian by any stretch of anyone’s imagination even the most rabid “I’m a republican before I’m a Christian” person.… Read more »
Here is what CH Spurgeon said about voting and he also addresses the voting for a Mormon issue.
http://americanvision.org/6532/charles-spurgeon-on-elections-and-voting/?fb_action_ids=4231712789103&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_ref=.UIgNI3nv8rU.like&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%224231712789103%22%3A239640076164544%7D&action_type_map=%7B%224231712789103%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%7B%224231712789103%22%3A%22.UIgNI3nv8rU.like%22%7D
I think it is an insult to call Mormonism the 4th great Abrahamic religion. There is nothing Abrahamic about Mormonism. Mormonism is a false religion invented in America in the 1800’s by a charlatan.
I knew this type of capitulation was going to happen once Romney became the Republican candidate. Now all of a sudden no one is allowed to call our latest political hero a cult member which is what he is.
Shame on those persons putting politics ahead of truth. You have lost credibility in so many person’s eyes.
Paco,
It’s equally insulting to call Isalm the 3rd great Abrahamic religion as it is a false religion invited in Arabia in the 600’s by a charlatan.
Yes, but Islam can at least claim to be an Abrahamic religion in that Ishmael’s descendants are the Muslim people.
Actually not really when you consider that Islam is more than 2500 years removed from Ishmael in it’s origin.
Yes, Mormonism is a cult. Christians should not support cults in any manner. Joh 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: Joh 12:43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. Mt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in In many way… Read more »
Jerry,
How is that any different than liberal christianity? President Obama who claims to be a Christian supports homosexuality and abortion, I think the passage in 2 Corithians applies here as well.
Of course it does, I was just pointing to that side because so many professing Christians are supporting a member of a cult. Mr. Obama has proven he is not on God’s side. Of course in the past any Christian that gets on the national stage compromises God’s way in order to try & pacify, please believers of all faiths along with unbelievers hoping not to lose a single vote. That is gaining the office is more important than God’s truths to them.