In the early 21st Century a paroxysm of rage and indignation arose against the symbols and statues of the Confederacy that was expressed by the defacing of graves, widespread destruction and vandalism of Confederate monuments on both public and private property, in parks, on battlefields and even in museums. The time came to be known as The Great Confederate Cleansing. The movement is generally considered to have fueled the growth of more radical hate groups and to have lowered the tone of racial discussion.
Highly unlikely, one speculates, that this would be an accurate description of future American history books but at the least one might admit that the seeds for such have been sown.
More likely, and greatly more preferable would be,
In the early 21st Century the rise of more militant neo-Nazi white supremacist groups was accompanied by a broad reexamination of many aspects of race relations. A loose network emerged where municipalities, communities, school districts established multi-racial committees to identify issues of concern, hold hearings, and solicit input. As a result, communities agreed on the renaming of some buildings, parks, and institutions, the relocation of some Confederate monuments, the addition of material providing context to others, and the agreement to leave others in place without change. The compromise movement is generally credited with lowering racial tension.
It may surprise non-southern Southern Baptists, a minority group among us, that these Confederate monuments, place names, and other reminders of the bloody Civil War are ubiquitous in the South. They are on courthouse squares, along major streets, in cemeteries, public parks, and other places. The names of Lee, Davis, Jackson and other lesser Confederates adorn hundreds of buildings, schools, and parks. These have existed in silence, some for a century and a half, but get occasional scrutiny. Manifestly, we are in a phase of the latter.
They are ignored by most, touted by some, and are considered offensive by some. We’ve seen some of these changed by community agreement, some removed in the dark of night by government fiat, and many recently defaced and vandalized.
It’s a complicated matter that can’t be solved with the simplistic syllogisms of the radical leftists (slavery is evil; those who fought to preserve slavery are evil) nor with the defiant calls by the preservationists to maintain the status quo. The history of all of these things is varied. They are not all sanctified by the preservationists claim of heritage nor are all made odious by the other side’s invoking of racism, Jim Crow, and segregation.
I have an opinion but am open to being persuaded away from all or part of it.
These seem to be easy:
- Cemeteries should be sacrosanct. There is no justification for a movement to alter any grave whether in a public or private cemetery.
- Monuments, flags, building names, and other reminders of the Confederacy on private property are protected. Absent some legal basis, these stay.
- Museums should be considered by all a place to display history and should be free to do so. Communities can debate what constitutes appropriately inclusive reminders of history.
- Battlefields are museums and should be protected.
These seem reasonable to change:
- Names, statues, flags established or erected in defiance of integration and the civil rights movement.
These are harder:
- Confederate statues on courthouse squares and in parks.
- Public buildings named after Confederates.
- Statues in statehouses and federal buildings.
Most of us understand political power. If we go through the process whereby the Georgia legislature votes to remove the statue of the virulent racist Vice President of the CSA, Alexander H. Stephens, from the capitol rotunda and put Martin Luther King, Jr.’s statue in its place. So be it. Everyone had a vote, at least indirectly on this. If counties agree to relocate the magnificent equestrian statues of Lee and Jackson from courthouse squares, so be it, even if most people have ignored them for a century or more. It would be helpful if these could be treated respectfully and relocated appropriately if that is the community’s decision.
The criminal vandals should be prosecuted. The cowardly public officials that send equipment in the dead of night to move statues should be shamed and thrown out of office. The shrill voices of the extremists on both sides should be ignored. The questionable history offered by both sides should be discarded. Those who use these things as proxies for spewing their hatred should be condemned by all.
Many people have spent much longer that I ruminating on these things. I’d be interested to hear your view.
Well written William and you make some very good points.
Probably surprises no one here that I’m in favor of leaving the monuments, statues, school names, etc as they are, unless of course a municipality or state or such votes to remove them.
Here’s a question. As monuments have some connection to slavery/the war etc., where does the line get drawn? Does Geo Washington come under fire here? Jefferson? See the RE Lees are easy pickins’ for those who want to erase any vestiges of the Confederacy which in their view is all about slavery and slave owners. But like the Kevin Bacon game and 6 degrees of separation, how many degrees of connection to slavery/slave owning do we go?
As someone who is not a “southerner” (born and raised in Missouri) I try to listen more than speak on these issues of removing flags, monuments, etc, as I’m sure I can’t fully understand the passions on either side. But I think you make good points here, William, that need to be considered. To quote a tweet I saw yesterday, “To remove objects with historical context based upon modern perceptions is a very dangerous precedent.” Before we tear down statues that have existed for 150 years in one night, let’s take a deep breath and ask ourselves if this is truly the best or most helpful way to combat racism.
Josh,
Although Missouri didn’t secede it is considered part of the South. The Confederacy carried a star on their flag for MO.
IT is still a divided state along N/S lines…South of I44 is very Southern culture…and significant covert and overt racism. I have 25 yrs in MO as a Pastor
Didn’t know that. Good to know.
Allen, I have spent my entire life in southern MO, and I would agree with that assessment. Although I have been told numerous times by my friends in the traditional south that southern MO “doesn’t count.” 🙂
My grandmother was born in southwest Missouri (after the Civil War). One of her grandfathers fought for the Union and the other for the Confederacy.
[Names, statues, flags established or erected in defiance of integration and the civil rights movement.]
William, it may be worth noting a distinction between purely racist people/intentions and those who were simply opposed to Civil Rights legislation as something out of bounds for the federal government to enact (which was Barry Goldwater’s position in the ’60s while running against LBJ).
Since the Civil War, the federal government has flexed its muscles to gradually try to reduce the rights of states to govern themselves per the 10th Amendment. As a proponent of limited government, this is deeply troubling to consider. It’s also why you sometimes hear rumors about a convention of states and possible current-day secession opportunities. Ironically, CA (a liberal state) is considering leaving the Union…they helped create and feed the beast and now they want to get away from the beast!
Dan, I’m not all that persuaded by that argument. It might have been the case in Arizona but not so much in the south. I’ll save modern secession for another discussion.
“It should be pointed out that the grace of God is sufficient to cleanse even those whose sins are made manifest to the world in statues. Sinners tearing down statues of past sinners does not cleanse us of our sins against one another today. Nor does it in any way advance the cause of Christ or fulfill the Great Commission. Those statues are reminders of how fallen we all are and should be viewed as such by Christ followers.?
CB Scott
There is nothing we can do to one another that compares to the manner in which we have offended God. No one is guiltless. Racism is a sin, not because if offends man, but because it offends God! Yet, all the posturing seems to be aimed at pacifying men. Why is that?
Ed,
A very good point.
I’m more than a little amused and saddened by all the SBC people, who say they’re all about being Gospel centered, and yet they seem to be more concerned about social issues and concerns. I hope that we can all be more concerned with actually preaching the Gospel, than being political experts and social justice warriors in the SBC.
David
William, this seems to be a well thought out and reasonable post. With you, I agree that cemeteries, private property, museums and battlefields are places where such remembrances are either appropriate and/or nobody else’s business. The ubiquity and antiquity (many of them existed before we were born and many of the rest have been there pretty much as long as we can remember) of these monuments in the South is, I believe, one reason that many people are not concerned about them. A lot of folks take no notice of them for either good or ill. In my neck of the woods, most people get up in the morning, put their pants on one leg at a time and go to work, not worrying about Jefferson Davis Street or Robert E. Lee High School. Whether or not it should be this way is a question for others. I am merely observing what I see. I think removing such monuments is the decision of the communities where the monuments exist. If elected officials do or do not do so and there decision is not in accord with community standards, the constituents are free to elect new officials. Those with opinions one way or another have the right to raise their voices, but local officials can make better decisions for their communities without a bunch of protesters from hither, thither and yon interfering, in my opinion.
To give an idea of the ubiquity of Confederate memorials in the South, this CNN page has a SPLC map of “Locations of publicly sponsored Confederate symbols as of 2016.” You will have to scroll down about a quarter or so down the page.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/16/us/confederate-monuments-backlash-chart-trnd/index.html
William, because your thoughts are reasonable they will never be our reality. These are the kind of compromises that can be reached when we talk to each other. Shouters will never agree to any compromise.
I live a stone’s throw from the Jefferson Davis monument/state park. The current caretaker of the park is an American of African descent. He has done more to improve the grounds and to bring in historical artifacts than all other caretakers, combined. I also live not so far from a cemetery where Union and Confederate soldiers are buried side by side.
I vote for letting the monuments stand. 2 reasons: this is part of our history, and they are reminders of NEVER AGAIN!
For the record, my ancestors did not own slaves. My ggg-grandfather, gg-grandfather, and ggg-uncle fought for the Union in the Kentucky Infantry. My gg-grandfather was captured by confederate troops and held in a prison in Bowling Green.
Look, it’s fine to have an opinion on whether you like confederate symbols or not, but the bottom line is that their removal or retention will be decided by the municipalities in which they are located (unless you favor their illegal removal, which ought to be off limits in a Christian blog). If enough people in an area want them removed, they’ll be removed. If not, they won’t be. That’s America.
Once Trump is out of office, the white supremacists will probably go back into hiding. Not as ideal as not having them at all, but half a loaf is better than none. Then I fear we will have to wait for them to die out. (these are two separate thoughts. I’m not conflating pro-confederate-symbolists with white supremacists).
William:
I think these are reasonable proposals.
But I do not think that dealing with this issue in this way is going to reduce tensions.
My observation is that some of the people leading this charge are using the race issue as a vehicle for further changes to the legal principles for which our country stands: free speech, freedom of religion, free press, economic freedom etc.
But my feeling in that regard doesn’t affect my reaction to your proposals. Societies change, and we have self determination, so people should make the changes they want.
The other thing I hope is that the SBC doesn’t feel the need to weigh in on this.
Hopefully, this is not another so called “Gospel Issue” that we must address.
Despite good intentions, every time the SBC gets involved in these questions publicly, I believe that it reinforces the Assocation of the SBC with the confederacy.
In my view, the way to disassociate ourselves from our past is not to spend time talking about our past, even if it’s to rebuke our past.
I think we put way too much stock in how people will like us more if we admit and address our past faults. I believe that clearly drives the thinking of many people on this question.
I was one who advocated strongly for the change of our convention name. That name reinforces the idea of regionalism. We were unable to do that, but instead came up with a clunky alternative that no one uses.
Instead, we condemned the flying of the confederate flag. And after we did it, we were proud of ourselves and all the good press we would get.
There is limited benefit to the SBC focusing on its past. To truly erase all vestiges of our past will require a lot of renaming, removed portraits and pictures from convention buildings and seminary halls.
This new monument controversy will and should be resolved by the broader society.
If Southern Baptists wade into this, even if we do so in the most progressive side, it will look to the broader society as if we own this debate and are somehow responsible for the monuments in the first place. That will just, once again, reinforce our association with the Confederacy.
Now – anyone want to talk about that name change again?
Yeah, it would be disastrous for the SBC to attempt by resolution to cover this. It’s too complex. Resolutions have had a diminishing value to the SBC. I’d seriously consider eliminating them altogether in favor of the ERLC and Executive Committee handling them as they see necessary and productive. The SBC resolutions process is available to any demagogue who chooses to use it (not a reference to the 2017 fiasco).
William,
This article was well thought out, reasonable, and fair. I also think that it offers a simple solution to a situation that people are making more complex than necessary. Southern memorabilia doesn’t necessarily make a person a racist. I have a painting of Stonewall Jackson in my office entitled The Prayer Warrior, as well as a replica Confederate kepi, and Calvary saber. Pastor Dwight McKissic has sat in my office and preached in my pulipit. He is one of my favorite people in the world.
It is sad that the Democratic party is resembling more and more like something run by Robespierre and the Jacobins rather than a party in a free country.
The aim to remove Confederate monuments is motivated by a Spirit of Vindictiveness. Inflexible and intolerant.
Tom H,
Or they could be motivated by a spirit of righteousness and a desire to remove from our country idols and imagery of racism and White Supremacy.
Dwight, thank you for the kind response to the comment where your (and others’) motives were called into question. Let’s all agree to take Dwight’s word on his own motivation for addressing this issue.
William:
While we agree on not having a resolution on this, I would not want to pass this issue on to the ERLC.
Can you imagine what a position Dr. Moore and the Convention would be in?
I just got around to reading the comments in the other post on the monuments, one in which I did not comment, and only now just got to read.
The heat in those comments is palpable.
Let’s pray that the SBC doesn’t feel the need to speak to this. The larger society can handle this.
If the SBC does speak to it, we will have to turn right around and speak to our own institutions and after whom they are named.
That will be two unnecessary wars we’ll end up having in the Convention.
I also agree that monuments issue isn’t something the convention needs to take up officially. I’m thankful for William’s post and agree with what he’s written here. I would only add that I think we do well do listen to minority voices on the monuments and consider others’ opinion better than our own in that regard.
If you mean that we should listen better to others’ opinion I’ll join you in that.
Most difficult to deal with are the idols of our hearts. Who of us doesn’t have any of those? We often use our idols to destroy others when we need to destroy the idols. Many have been casting idols, but who will be the first to cast one down?
William,
Thank you for your common sense approach to a thorny issue. Your sound wisdom will not be followed because there are so many who are bent on erasing national monuments ( not just confederate ones as we have seen this week) and their thirst for vengeance against America in general is irrational. If confederate monuments are indiscriminately torn down regardless of historical context it will not end there. The idea of “private” versus “public” property is foreign to these irrational minds. A good example and perfect illustration is what happened in Durham. In that case the police just stood by. From the video of that incident it is clear that those who engage in that behavior are doing so for some twisted pseudo- therapeutic reasons.
The challenge for the Church is to remain Gospel focused during this time of lawlessness. We should be clear that both white supremacy in all of its shades and irrational misdirected violence towards anyone for any reason is unacceptable Christian behavior.
Woody Whitt
One other thing. Those racists are also image bearers of God, who need Jesus. They should be pitied, and they need the gospel preached to them, as well.
I don’t know if Donald Trump will succeed or not, but I do know there is none better at diversion tactics. I once said Trump is the smartest man on the planet. He is an evil genius. Even during Trump’s campaign he could change the conversation on a dime, and get everyone’s mind off on something else. I think that’s what is happening now. Trump and Bannon has everyone’s minds on statues instead of the Russia investigation. For a while everyone was thinking about how cruel and mean he is to world leaders. Now it’s those beautiful monuments. The statue thing will pass away soon enough. When he gets his Health care bill passed, all he has to do is say, “Look what I did,” then his base will love him even more. That is until they actually see how it’s hurt them. Yes Trump is a genius, he become President didn’t he, with your vote. I hope each one of you can see what he is doing, and how he does it.
Jess, I realize that you’re anti-Trump, but surely you can admit that he didn’t ask for this coverage about statues. Hardly any sort of diversion tactic. And William’s OP wasn’t even about Trump, so not sure why you felt the need to go there with an original comment anyway.
Dan B,
The reason I went there is because it all ties together. Just wait and see, I then will say I told you so.
Dan B.
That’s funny! He went on National Television and said what he did about the statues. Remember the press conference. Trump is an expert on diversion. Of course this post is not about that, but to the point of the post, they are now saying the Alt-Right is 100% responsible for the fights and want the President to admit it and say he was wrong.
In my mind the Nazi’s, White Supremacists, White Nationalists are automatically in the wrong even if the other side started the skirmishes. Hate for other races has to be banished in America. A Nazi flag has no business being flown in America, This also means white hoods and sheets. Isis Flags shouldn’t be flown in America. Even if the hate groups didn’t start the skirmish they are wrong morally. We as Americans have a perfect right to hate people. Although God has a different idea. We Christians cannot hate people.
As far as I can tell, there is not a single statue or monument that mentions Benedict Arnold by name in the US. A few reference his deeds as a military hero prior to his defection, but due to his universal association with the concept of traitor in the US, these memorials purposely choose not reference his name or depict his countenance. Despite this, a great number of people seem to have learned his name, deeds, and historical significance.
This shows me two things: First, the histrionics about “We are whitewashing history, people are going to forget” are way overstated. There is absolutely no need for public monuments of a historical figure to learn that figures significance. General Arnold is an exemplar of this. This doesn’t necessarily mean that we should remove the monuments, , but it does show that history is perfectly capable of being preserved without them.
Second: A large segment of our population understates the traitorous nature of the CSA. Jefferson Davis, General Lee, and other Confederate leaders are no less traitors to this nation than General Arnold was, but his legacy is one of shame because of his abandoning of his cause, but the legacy of the Confederates, at least to some, is something worth honoring. I can not say what caused this difference, but the way we treat monuments to one vs monuments to others shows that this is certainly true.
“A large segment of our population understates the traitorous nature of the CSA. Jefferson Davis, General Lee, and other Confederate leaders are no less traitors to this nation than General Arnold was…”
Seems quite uninformed as to the nature of our constitution. 🙂
Les,
They are former members of the US that took up arms, fought, and killed loyal members of the United States of America (either personally or as a leader of a movement that did so). I am very comfortable calling that treason. It seems like a pretty open and shut case. If you prefer undergo the mental gymnastics necessary to come to another conclusion, then that is your prerogative.
Nathan- “I am very comfortable calling that treason. It seems like a pretty open and shut case”
Who else was a “traitor?”
George Washington. Thomas Jefferson. Ben Franklin, etc
But I believe the Brits have gotten over it. There’s even a statue of Washington in London. Set there in 1924 – 148 years after the “treason.” The Civil War has been over for 152 years, but I guess some people still hold a grudge.
Les: is the constitution “uninformed” about *itself?*
Art III, Sec 3: “treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”
Nathan, Walter Williams (African American if that matters) says it well:
https://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2017/06/28/were-confederate-generals-traitors-n2346707
David Light, see my Walter Williams link. You need to know and understand history.
Nathan,
I have never seen a statue of a Confederate soldier or its president and yet I know about these men. I learned about them when studying the civil war in whatever high school class taught that in my school.
They weren’t vilified and their on the field bravery and fighting savvy weren’t minimized.
Therefore you are correct in that these statues are not needed to teach the public the history of that conflict.
Here’s a perspective from Charles Barkley on this matter:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/08/18/charles-barkley-im-not-going-to-waste-my-time-worrying-about-these-confederate-statues/?utm_term=.0b856509cf34
There is not a monolithic opinion about all of this that I can gather.
I am for letting the larger society work this out, so long as violence and self-help are not part of working it out.
To me, condemning the Alt-right, KKK, white-supremacist types is an easy call.
Dealing with historical monuments us much trickier. It kinda smacks of historical revisionism.
Maybe leaving the monuments as teaching tools? I don’t know.
It’s like MLK. If you hear people talk now, he is everyone’s hero. But back on the 60s, Christian, white America had a much less charitable view. Now, though, we were all big fans!!
Better to deal with the past than whitewash it.
The issues here are complex
I am fairly sure that I camp out right here with Dave Miller in my thought processes about this situation at the moment:
“To me, condemning the Alt-right, KKK, white-supremacist types is an easy call.
Dealing with historical monuments us much trickier. It kinda smacks of historical revisionism.
Maybe leaving the monuments as teaching tools? I don’t know.
It’s like MLK. If you hear people talk now, he is everyone’s hero. But back on the 60s, Christian, white America had a much less charitable view. Now, though, we were all big fans!!
Better to deal with the past than whitewash it.
The issues here are complex.”
I am not sure this is satire. It might be prophetic revelation.
Satan’s Armies Still Heavily Focused On Comments Sections http://babylonbee.com/news/satans-armies-still-heavily-focused-comments-sections/ via @TheBabylonBee
This one is pretty good too.
http://babylonbee.com/news/hero-man-willing-go-internet-say-nazis-bad/
How could anyone not like this one?
http://babylonbee.com/news/mob-angry-arminians-pulls-statue-john-calvin/
Great video by Charles Barkley on the subject of the monuments.
http://usherald.com/watch-charles-barkley-issues-blistering-notice-confederate-monuments-leftists-freaking/
Ladies and Gentlemen,
One thing is for sure. You have to admit that Ole Traveler was a beautiful horse.
I wish I had a photo of my horse named…Traveler
Hey, Dave Miller, and all the rest of you Football fans of the Lesser Conferences, Guess What?!?!
The CRIMSON TIDE is ranked Number One (1) again for the 10th straight season. No other Football Nation in the entire Football Universe has ever accomplished such grandeur of recognition and respect.
Long Live The SEC!!!
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!!
First, as a point of reference, my family has been in South Carolina since 1710. 16 direct ancestors fought for the Confederacy. Some died. I have strong feelings towards their memory and their cause.
That said, one would be well served to look behind the curtain of the statue debate as to the real agenda behind this current cause de jour. Progressives are incrementally attempting, and succeeding, to alter our culture. As we have all witnessed the attacks on visible displays of our Christian Faith, this current assault is just another cog in the wheel of redefining and recreating the American culture.
While i Know God is in control, and all that happens is in accordance with His plan, i think it important to be aware of what the Powers and Principalities are up to.
Even so, Come Lord Jesus!
I must say that NOBODY seems to be addressing the specific issues that caused Confederate “monuments” to be raised in the first place, so let me state them here.
1) They are mostly MEMORIALS not MONUMENTS. 90% of them were erected between 1890 and 1920, when the last of the Confederate veterans were dying off. They were not erected in “celebration” or in reaction to a civil rights movement that wouldn’t even begin until the 50’s.
2) They were NOT paid for with public money. The money was raised by mostly WOMEN who wanted their husbands, fathers, grandfathers, sons and brothers remembered, who had been killed or maimed in the war. They believed their loved one died for a “just cause.” (see #3)
3) 96% of southerners never owned slaves. Many were opposed to it. So why did they fight? 98% of the Confederate soldiers were poor farmers, blacksmiths, and store keepers, with no slaves. Do we really think that all these men and boy died for the right of a rich white man to own slaves? Would YOU die to maintain the status quo of the rich? They fought and dies because many believed that slavery should be abolished state by state in accordance with the constitution. they feared (rightly) that if the federal govt could usurp the contitution on this issue, that it could do so on any others. (Anybody doubt that this is the day we are now living in?) Many other fought simply to protect their families and property from a “raping, burning, and pillaging Union army”–their words not mine)
4) If these werent the reasons–regardless of what any politicians of the day said–they lied then as they do now–then tell me what they were. General Grant owned slaves. If he was fighting to free them, why did he own them for so long? Why didnt Maryland, Missouri, Delaware, West Virginia and Kentucky free their slaves, since they were Union States? Also know that Jews, Native Americans and Catholics were all part of the Confederate Gov’t and all these groups owned slaves (including black slave owners—yes its true)
5) Robert E Lee was in favor of a slow abolition of slavery. He feared an immediate freedom would cause chaos, and would leave the slaves in a vacuum with no way to survive. I think he was wise on this point. He was also the first white man to kneel beside a black man in his church to take communion—-nobody else would come forward to kneel with the black man.
6) Google quotes from Lincoln on race relations. He wasnt exactly a believer in equality, and some of his quotes sounds eerily similar to the KKK.
7) The people that erected the memorials should never be seen in the same light as the KKK or nazis. In fact General Forrest who founded the original KKK as an organization of fraternization of southern vets, disbanded it when he saw that it was turning into something else. Others would take the name and turn into what we know today. And in taking down these memorials, we are handing them (KKK) another symbol with which they should never be connected.
7) The KKK is not just a southern phenomenon …the states with the highest membership in the 30’s 40’s and 50’s was Indiana and Ohio.
And in closing, as Christians we are called to tell the truth. Not just the truth about the Gospel, but the truth about everything, including this issue. Please understand that most of those who are demanding that these memorials be removed are not doing so because they genuinely feel that they represent racism. They have another agenda, and are just choosing something they know most people are afraid to take a stand on because of political correctness. It’s just another step toward dismantling our whole culture, including the Judeo-Christian ethic. You think the “war on Christmas” was really about not offending anyone? Do nothing if you wish….it won’t be long before they will be coming after us, they will be climbing up the steeples to our churches to pull down the cross. After all, isn’t the cross a KKK racist symbol? Trust me, they will be teaching this very soon….in fact I believe it’s already begun.
I think we’re done with this. Time to move along.