Balance, schmalance…”beer is a gift to be enjoyed in moderation” sayeth my neighbor Georgian evangelical pastor…and brewer.
Heavenly balance? A craft-beer-brewing, evangelical pastor
Alas, the dilemma of today’s newspaper editors. If an evangelical pastor founds a brewery, where should the story go? Better put it in the business, not religion, section of the paper, but be sure to include more than a little about the church angle; you know, details like the brewery founder has a degree from the venerable Southern Baptist Theological Seminary and the concept that “beer brings people together”.
Eureka! Beer + people + religion = church, a craft sort-of church. Think boutique.
Well, so what?
Craft breweries have popped up like tattoo parlors and dry herb vape pen shops, they’re everywhere. And, this beer-and-church concept was pioneered a generation ago by clever, shirt tailed whippersnappers using promo lines like “suds and theology,” remember? Where’s the relevancy? Where’s the news value in this?
Even though the SBC has multiple resolutions against alcohol, we only go to the extent of kicking out churches for being gay friendly these days, not beer-friendly. The church in question is not listed in the SBCnet database. Perhaps the SBTS-trained pastor, who declares that starting a brewery is a lot tougher than starting a church, wanted to keep life simple, the church side of it anyway.
So, maybe it’s just no more than an interesting story, right?
Then again, the brewery is named “Reformation Brewery,” which jacks up the potency of a post like this, eh? Alcohol + SBTS + Reformation…critical mass has been achieved, an important matter to SBCers, especially the “critical” part (“mass’ we leave to the Catholics).
What’s left to say but……”cheers.”
[And, yeah, I know that this is so 2011 to some here. But the AJC article is today. And lest I incur wrath from the Matthew 18 crowd, believe me, both the brewery and the church will be appreciative of the publicity.]
Cheers to this brother!
Cheers and Amen!
Clever William, clever, indeed.
Why do I suspect that this post will end up with a critical mass of comments?
When you have been posting here as long as you and I have you know where this is headed.
Train wreck city.
And a whole bunch of endorsements for a certain gulf coast book. Lol
Your neighbor pastor would be right.
I want to say up front that I’m sympathetic to both sides of this discussion, which I guess may automatically put me in the moderationist camp. However, the one thought I’d like to share does not concern is more related to unity and diversity within the SBC and how that relates to alcohol. I went to my first SBC annual meeting a couple years ago when it was in Houston. Some dear brothers who were African American and came from an all African American church (until I joined) came with me. By God’s grace, they had gone from being a… Read more »
Joker face – “And Here. We. Go.”
LOL. Just don’t try any magic tricks. 😉
Create a topic on Billy Graham or the need for discipleship, and no one bats an eye. Create a topic on alcohol in the SBC and everyone goes crazy!
You win the internet!
Common Myths regarding the use of beverage alcohol during pregnancy. Myth: My doctor said it’s fine to have a glass of wine or two while pregnant. Your doctor might not be informed about the risk of prenatal alcohol exposure or could be uncomfortable talking with you about the risks to your embryo or fetus associated with prenatal alcohol use. Unfortunately, many doctors are not properly educated about the risks associated with prenatal alcohol exposure. The American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) advises women to not consume any alcohol while pregnant. Some doctors tell women that it’s okay to drink… Read more »
CB, not to trivialize ANYTHING you said there, as I strongly agree with all of it. I’m just wondering if you could clarify how that ties in to the topic of the original post? The info you gave seems better suited for a separate post as it’s most certainly good information that everyone should be aware of, but it seems like this is straying from the topic at hand. If the discussion is about the rightness of drinking in general, or about whether it’s wise for a baptist to open a brewery, then I’m just not seeing how these facts… Read more »
Bob Browning, I am not arguing the “rightness” or “wrongness” of the use of beverage alcohol within the parameters of Scripture. I will leave that to others. My position has always been that it is unwise to use alcohol as a beverage. Bob, a few years ago, I wrote a post about the use of alcohol as a beverage. I have been told that the comment thread was one of the longest in SBC Voices history. Nevertheless, I contended one thing and one thing only. It is unwise to use alcohol as a beverage. That is my position. I realize… Read more »
I do wonder if a glass or two is okay when Alabama wins the national championship in football. Surely, when such evil occurs, CB, just a small amount to make a person forget?
Fortunately, I was in Africa, so I didn’t have to see how far my lifelong teetotalitarianism would carry me in that moment of great evil.
When Auburn beats Alabama, could that drive CB to sip just a little to wash away his tears?
Les,
Such an event is of such a severity that only a stint in sackcloth and ashes give me any degree of comfort.
Dave Miller,
My personal experience has been that once the “small” or “large” amount it takes for one to forget wears off, reality returns.
Here is reality. The Crimson Tide is a winner, always has been a winner, always will be a winner. Why? Because we are winners. We own the sport of FOOTBALL. We always will. . . . and no matter what one does to run away from this fact, the reality of our greatness as the SABANATION is without place, time, or beverage of escape.
We are the CRIMSON TIDE. We are FOOTBALL.
ROLL TIDE ROLL!!!!
I think we should start calling Alabama the Crimson Trumps – because CBs rhetoric is very similar to that of the Donald when he’s talking about his precious Alabama.
😉
Tarheel,
One big difference: I’m not lyin’. . . . but who am I to “RUB” “It” “On” and on?
I thought Big 10 fans got out of the football business in January; I haven’t heard a peep from one. All year we heard chirping about an overrated SEC receiving favoritism. 9-2 in bowl games and just look at the scores Alabama/Michigan State (big 10 champs) 38-0 LSU/Texas Tech 56-27 Mississippi State/NC State 51-28 Tennessee/Nwestern (compared by Dave all year to Ole Miss) 45-6 Georgia(they fired their coach and they still beat Big 10 opponent)/Penn St 24-17 Arkansas/Kansas St 45-23 Ole Miss/Oklahoma St 48-20 Auburn/Memphis 31-10 So not to highjack the post, I do not drink alcohol and find it… Read more »
CB is welcome to post anything about pregnancy and alcohol. Dave Brumbelow is welcome to post anything about his book on alcohol and the Bible. Dave Miller is not welcome to post even a syllable about the Yanquis.
Yankees.
Since this post was about a Reformed church and a brewery, I have a question.
How many people here are Reformed, Calvinist, and are against drinking alcohol?
David R. Brumbelow
David B., I don’t know on this forum. But I can say that in my PCA circles, most hold the position of Christian liberty regarding drinking alcohol. Quite a few in my PCA circle hold that view and are personally teetotalers. I know quite a few Southern Baptists who are Reformed and I’d say most are libertarian on alcohol and many I know personally are teetotalers. That sounds like the PCA folks I know and the SB Reformed folks I know are about the same. But what I’m trying to say is the Reformed Baptists I know are somewhat less… Read more »
Thanks Les. I was just wondering if there were any Calvinists here who were against drinking. I know some are, but apparently not here.
Two examples, one past, one present: Charles Spurgeon and John MacArthur.
David R. Brumbelow
I don’t know David B. How many professing teetotalers actually drink secretly?
How many “Trads” are actually conscientiously open to the idea of moderation but toe the prohibitionist line out of fear of being labeled by those who view it legalistically?
I would agree with the quote in the article by John MacArthur,
“It’s puerile and irresponsible for any pastor to encourage the recreational use of intoxicants.”
I’d also agree with Adrian Rogers,
“The position of a man, woman, boy or girl ought to be total abstinence.”
“It is the moderate drinker that encourages other people to drink.”
“You may be very surprised at who you may hurt with your ability to hold your liquor.”
http://gulfcoastpastor.blogspot.com/2016/02/adrian-rogers-on-alcohol-drinking-wine.html
David R. Brumbelow
David R., I don’t drink alcohol or beer. Never have. But when I want to know the truth of a thing, and how to live godly, I turn not to men and their opinions, but to the Word of God. So here is some logic: We aren’t to be drunkards so ban alcohol. We aren’t to be gluttons, so ban food. We aren’t to be promiscuous, so ban sex. We aren’t to speak lies, so ban speaking. I could go on, as you know. But I think the point is made. Humans can abuse lawful activities, and distort them, and… Read more »
The linked article said brewers are faced with lots of regulations and can’t sell directly to the public. There is a reason for that. Many states purposely make it difficult and more expensive to sell alcohol. Why? To reduce consumption. I even heard an alcohol representative, speaking at no less than an ACAP (American Council on Alcohol Problems) meeting, saying he agreed with this practice. He said we, the alcohol industry, makes enough money as it is, and if the price goes too low and getting it to the public is too easy, the rise in drinking will cause more… Read more »
Here in Georgia, the reason gummit has archaic rules on alcohol manufacture and distribution has nothing to do with public health and welfare but is designed to be corporate welfare for big donor distribution companies. Clear case of gummit picking winners and losers. The winners are big donor fat cats and their servile politicians.
David, you said, “Many states purposely make it difficult and more expensive to sell alcohol. Why? To reduce consumption.”
I’m not sure I’d agree with that. If we look back at what happened during prohibition I think we learn the real answer, which is that people are willing to pay a high price for their pleasure. Thus, the state knows this is a money-making opportunity. That’s not to say your point doesn’t have an impact, but I don’t think it’s simply that the state is really watching out for people to the best of its ability.
Dave B. “The linked article said brewers are faced with lots of regulations and can’t sell directly to the public. There is a reason for that. Many states purposely make it difficult and more expensive to sell alcohol. Why? To reduce consumption.” or To make sure they get their “sin tax”. Its a cash cow for the government. It’s all about the taxes. In fact the govt.setting up govt. spending projects based on the p predicated on people buying and using it defies your point. It’s not about reducing consumption because if it were there would not be govt. programs… Read more »
Leave this one to me, Tarheel. After all, I can read local news even I I don’t swill beer. It’s not the taxes. The state has the ability to collect their tax on lots of stuff without forcing manufacturers to warehouse product with approved distributors before the consumer is sold the item. We have computers and stuff here in Georgia, you know. It’s about the corporate welfare class maintaining their privileges. The craft micro-brewery cannot sell direct to stores. Coca-Cola can. Zoom Baits can (they make fishing stuff near me). Grandma’s Cookies can. Laws force Reformation Brewery to make their… Read more »
William is exactly right. We are seeing this in Oklahoma right now. David B. lives in a fantasy world if he thinks the government is seeking to limit consumption.
But based on his book we already know that’s where he lives.
No matter….if it raises the price for beer and other types of liquor, then great! If it makes it more expensive to buy, then good. That will make it harder to get. That’s a good thing. They should raise the taxes on all alcohol products and tobacco products.
Great idea.
David
As long as they raise taxes on double cheeseburgers and Route 44 cokes as well. Obesity kills more people in America via heart disease and diabetes and stroke than alcohol.
And gluttony is actually a sin.
Seriously Vol, I thought you were a free market conservative. You really want taxes raised? You sound like a Democrat.
I kid. I kid. 😉
When did eating a bacon, double cheeseburger become a sin? What’s wrong with drinking a Route 44, cherry coke? When did it become sinful to be fat, or obese?
Gluttony is a sin; yes.
Besides, I’d rather meet CB Scott on the road, after he’s eaten a jumbo BBQ sandwich and fries, than to meet Bubba, who’s had a couple of drinks, down at the Redneck Riviera.
David
Ryan you are right about the obesity issue.
Vol, eating a bacon, double cheeseburger or drinking a Route 44, cherry coke is not a sin in an of itself. Neither is consuming alcohol a sin in and of itself. One can argue it may not be wise to consume alcohol, as CB does and argues it well. One can also effectively argue that eating bacon, double cheeseburgers or drinking Route 44, cherry cokes is not wise.
Les, Eating a bacon, double cheeseburger is very wise. It satisfies the pains of hunger, and it tastes good. Drinking a cherry coke is always a good thing. It delights the tastebuds, and it makes one feel good, again. Now, alcohol is unwise. It can get a hold of you. It can take you down. It can cause people to act in ways, they normally would not. It can cause FAS in pregnant women. It can bite you like a rattlesnake. It can cause people to lose inhibitions, which leads to sinful things. It can cause people to run their… Read more »
What is a Route 44 cherry coke? What is in it other than cherry flavor?
Vol, I do love a good bacon double cheeseburger. Not Cherry coke so much. DDP is my preferred soda.
I was simply pointing out that a) alcohol consumption is not necessarily a sin. May be wise or unwise. b. bacon double cheeseburgers and cherry Coke consumption is not necessarily a sin. May be wise or unwise. Personally, I think the burger is usually wise and the cherry coke not so much.
But people have wisdom views on both a and b.
Les
CB, CB, CB, have you lived so long without enjoying this delicious elixir of the Heavens?
Go down to your local Sonic, or DQ, or your local burger shack type restaurant. Order a cherry coke. If you go to the Sonic, get a Route 44 Cherry Coke…you’ll be able to drink on it the rest of the day.
All it is is coke, cherry flavor, and ice. The Sonic route 44 is 44 ounces of it. Your basic big boy.
David
Les,
Drinking Diet Dr. Pepper is worse than drinking George Dickel bourbon. I really didn’t think you’d be that kind of a person.
David
“Drinking Diet Dr. Pepper is worse than drinking George Dickel bourbon.”
I cannot agree with you Vol. I’ve been to the George Dickel distillery way back in the early 1980s. Then he and I had some shall we say, run ins. Lost my “taste” for George Dickel.
Fascinating tour BTW, even for teetotalers. As is the AB brewery tour here in St. Louis, even for teetotalers. Very informative and free! I want pics though if a bunch of you Baptist preachers go together on an AB tour this summer.
Oh! How foolish I feel. I was thinking that it had to do with mixture. I should have known it had to do with quantity.
Could be worse. Could be Caffeine-free Diet Mountain Dew. First time I saw that in the grocery store, my thought was “What’s the point?”.
Yeah, prohibition worked so well too. 😉
Yes, Ryan Abernathy, William is right. However, there is no reason to make statements toward David R. Brumbelow suggesting he is unstable. His position is very defensible and has merit. You cannot make his position appear to be that of a theological dwarf by casting aspersions toward his position as if he has pulled it from some mystical cloud which hovers over Neverland. He is a good and honorable man and solid follower of Jesus. I will state that some of his friends are far less than honorable men, but I do not think him to be cut of the… Read more »
CB I have mad respect for you and your position even though I do not agree with it. You do not attempt to manipulate the text make it say something it does not say. I respect that immensely. David B does and that was the intent of my “fantasy land” comment. If you say he is a good man, I believe you. I don’t doubt that he is a brother in the Lord. I simply cannot condone the manipulation of the Bible to make it agree with one’s already decided position. The integrity of scripture is more important to me… Read more »
Diet Dr. Pepper is the best of the diet sodas. Diet Mt. Dew is the worst.
William Thornton is right. It has always been that way. There is also another factor that is not that often spoken of among the law abiding citizenry. There is always the “white collar black market” operations that do not want “commercial Vandals and Visigoths” coming over the walls and undercutting the undercutting of the illegal vendors who undercut the legal vendors.
Not all pirates look like pirates, but all pirates will stick together to keep a new Captain Kid out of their waters.
Zoom baits!!! A 9 inch zoom watermelon seed colored plastic worn is the most deadly culprit I fish with.
Do not go messing with the production and selling of them or we are going to fall out of fellowship.
Used to know a guy who worked there who would give me the less than perfect baits. I don’t do much fishing since I retired.
“I don’t do much fishing since I retired.”
That sounds backwards.
Dean Stewart,
That does sound backwards. I was thinking the same.
Well, it’s sorta the way it worked out. When I think about fishing now, it’s too hot, too cold, too windy, too sunny, etc.
I think I went fishing three times last year.
“The three-tier system of alcohol distribution is the system for distributing alcoholic beverages set up in the United States after the repeal of Prohibition. The three tiers are producers, distributors, and retailers. The basic structure of the system is that producers can sell their products only to wholesale distributors who then sell to retailers, and only retailers may sell to consumers. Producers include brewers, wine makers, distillers and importers.” “After Prohibition, the states began to seek methods to regulate and control the alcohol industry lest it return to the excesses and abuses that led to Prohibition years before. The states… Read more »
Archaic system but quite lucrative to segments of the industry.
David R. Brumbelow,
There has never been a time when there were not excesses and abuses in the regulation, sales, and control of the alcohol industry of this nation. The same is true of the regulations, sales, and control of tobacco and firearms. That is the reason we have the ATF.
Alcohol, tobacco, and weapons are commodities of which the normal laws of supply and demand never apply in regard to cost or taxation. The demand for all three shall never decrease and the supply shall forever be existent whether regulated or unregulated.
Tobacco use is price sensitive, particularly among younger users. It stands to reason that if society finds it in the general public interest to discourage kids from acquiring the habit, then tax policy should be used to elevate the price to the maximum effective point. OTOH, people with lower income and levels of education people use tobacco at higher rates, making a tax look like these were targeted.
Here’s an area where mods/libs and con baptists could cooperate.
William Thornton,
The sale of black market tobacco products will trump placing higher taxes on the products. The sale of un-taxed cigarettes has always been a source of revenue in this nation. Increasing the tax will only make it more profitable.
I thought this was supposed to be a place to talk about things related to the SBC… but it seems we’re just discussing the price of beer. Maybe if someone has the time they can go back up and read my first comment.
I’m really curious what some of the older crowd thinks about the fact that these kinds of discussions may push a lot of younger conservative evangelicals toward non-denom churches, even though they could be in 100% agreement with the BFM. Is abstinence really a sword we need to fall on at the convention level? Sincerely asking.
I see no way that any SBC annual session will yield a resolution that is less than total-teetotalism on steroids. And it’s not Calvinism in my view that drives the moderate drinking stuff but demographics. But no, I don’t see that today’s typical religious consumer, church shopper puts alcohol high up on their list of must haves for a church. SBC churches have always been de jure dry but de facto rather damp, probably moreso now than previously. And I gather that the biblical case against any consumption of alcoholic beverage is not seen as very persuasive. I bet even… Read more »
“SBC churches have always been de jure dry but de facto rather damp, probably moreso now than previously.”
Yep, William Thornton. Having buried a few Baptist deacons and SS teachers with diseased livers, I am inclined to agree with you.
William has hit some important points here, I think: 1. “And it’s not Calvinism in my view that drives the moderate drinking stuff but demographics.” –> I agree, while I was in a conservative Christian College in the late 90’s/ealy 2000’s, filled mostly with Baptist students…Even then It seemed most of the students were of the persuasion that alcohol use is often unwise, but not totally forbidden by scripture. 2. “But no, I don’t see that today’s typical religious consumer, church shopper puts alcohol high up on their list of must haves for a church.” –> True for some perhaps,… Read more »
I wrote off the the local 1st Baptist in town, because their Statement of Faith included the fact that “The sale, purchase, possession, or usage of alcohol as a beverage is a sin.” It’s not even that I crave alcohol as a beverage, but it told me a lot about the folks who attended the church, and who supported such a specific statement. This wasn’t buried in their church bylaws, but was one of the bullet point, “We believe”s, right up there with the Trinity and the Virgin Birth.
I remember during the worship wars some people left the Baptist faith and joined other denominations because they still had organs and hymnals. One member of my immediate family approached me saying they were joining another denomination because of music. I pointed out the denomination they were considering joining baptized infants, did not believe in the eternal security of the believer, and had homosexual and lesbian pastors but at least they sing what you like and evidently that is the most important. That would be my response on this issue. If a man leaves a denomination whose statement of faith… Read more »
Dean,
Amen and amen.
If people leave a church, because they want to have their ears scratched and tickled, then Adios.
David
Bob Browning, You asked if discussing alcohol will push people away from our churches. My first thought is that if using a recreational, mind altering drug (beverage alcohol) is wrong, we should speak against it whether it is popular or not. There is also the danger of someone saying, “Why didn’t you warn me?” Many have said even if the Bible did not condemn alcohol, they would oppose it out of common sense and medical, scientific information. We should not be silent about the most dangerous drug in America, because some get offended. We should practice evangelism and missions without… Read more »
Ladies and Gentlemen,
When you read David R. Brumbelow’s comment of, March 2, 2016 at 9:44 am, you have to admit that you have read a comment that had its genesis in the heart of a pastor. No matter how you stand on the subject of this post, you have to agree that a man with a pastor’s heart has spoken.
I say: May his tribe increase.
CB,
I add my “amen” to this, as well.
David
CB, and Volfann,
Thanks very much.
And, I agree with the comments CB has made about fetal alcohol syndrome. Some have even advised the safest thing is for all women of child bearing age to abstain from alcohol because by the time a woman finds out she is pregnant, damage may have already been done.
Of course, the safest, wisest thing is for everyone to abstain.
David R. Brumbelow
BOB BROWNING: “I’m really curious what some of the older crowd thinks about the fact that these kinds of discussions may push a lot of younger conservative evangelicals toward non-denom churches, even though they could be in 100% agreement with the BFM. Is abstinence really a sword we need to fall on at the convention level? Sincerely asking.” DAVID BRUMBLOW: “You asked if discussing alcohol will push people away from our churches….My first thought is that if using a recreational, mind altering drug (beverage alcohol) is wrong, we should speak against it whether it is popular or not.” Even though… Read more »
Andy, When you said, “Playing cards, preaching without a tie on, using the church sanctuary for non-sacred activities, going to a movie theatre, drum sets and guitars in church, women wearing pants,” I would agree with you. Those things are not dealt with, in the Bible. Alcohol is. Proverbs talks about the foolishness of drinking fermented wine. It’s foolish to drink something that can bite you like a rattlesnake, and take over your life. And, it’s sinful to get drunk on alcohol…to let liquor influence your emotions, and thinking, and choices. It’s sinful to let alcohol control your life. And,… Read more »
Three deacons and myself have a running Rook game. We even play in the fellowship hall sometime but most of the time in our homes. The card game itself is not sinful but the lies and cheating we do sure are. 🙂
Ah, Rook. Back when I was going to Asbury College (now Asbury University), the school had a ‘no regular playing cards’ rule. As a result, Rook was rather popular.
Vol,
In all honesty, giving up card playin’ and pool shootin’ was really hard for me- near about killed me!. . . . and dancin’?? Now that one was almost more than I could handle. . . . almost made me join the Pentecostals.
Alcohol is dealt with in the bible, but it is not prohibited across the board. That is the difference. It is similar to Bart Barber’s recent article on Lent. I can agree with a lot of what he is saying, without going so far as to say those who practice lent are sinning. Paul addressed “observing special days” and concluded observing or not was ok. Bart agreed, and did not go so far as to say observing lent was sinful. With alcohol, the biblical case for saying it is always sinful is weak. I do not find a biblical basis… Read more »
Andy, For each of the issues you bring up, and others, I’d simply say consider a couple of issues. 1. Does the Bible directly speak against it? 2. Do the teachings and principles of the Bible speak against it? In the case of alcohol, I believe both speak against it. Some who oppose alcohol would agree with #2, but not #1. By the way, those who oppose slavery have mainly used #2 to oppose it. David R. Brumbelow PS – And in the case of Dean and his card playing, in church no less, a motion needs to be presented… Read more »
David, I think the problem is not that scripture doesn’t condemn alcohol abuse, or drunkenness, but that it in other places condones or even encourage it’s use. If it ONLY spoke about it in the negative, the case for biblical abstinence would be stronger. Just for fun, In addition to alcohol, tithing, and lent, I’ll throw out one more thing in this category: Gambling. I don’t believe there is a blanket prohibition on gambling….so we have things like the stock market, raffles for charity, and perhaps even 2 boys saying, “I’ll race you to that stop sign and whoever loses… Read more »
It seems that some consider the abstinence from the use of alcohol as a beverage issue of culture and generational morality, ethics, and biblical interpretation. I think that may be a limited perspective. As more research comes to bear on alcohol consumption by women in their child-bearing years, I feel compelled to warn young adults and even teens as to what alcohol consumption can do and cause. Frankly, the subject of Lent and beverage alcohol consumption are apples verses oranges in my opinion. Beverage alcohol consumption is dangerous to women/their unborn babies. I think it wise to stay away for… Read more »
For consideration regarding the use of beverage alcohol: According to the CDC and the U.S. Surgeon General, “There is no known safe amount of alcohol to drink while pregnant. There is also no safe time during pregnancy to drink and no safe kind of alcohol.” According to the American Academy of Pediatrics: “There is no safe amount of alcohol when a woman is pregnant. Evidence based research states that even drinking small amounts of alcohol while pregnant can lead to miscarriage, stillbirth, prematurity, or sudden infant death syndrome.” When you drink alcohol, so does your developing baby. Any amount of… Read more »
Andy, I and many others do believe the Bible condemns the use of beverage alcohol. I believe it’s use is abuse. Yes, in places the Bible condemns wine, in other places it commends wine. But the word wine is used differently in Scripture and in the ancient world. The Bible calls fermented wine by the word wine (Proverbs 20:1; 23:29-35; etc.). The Bible also calls unfermented wine or grape juice by the word wine (Proverbs 3:10; Isaiah 16:10; 65:8; etc.) In the very same verse (Matthew 9:17), Jesus even referred to both fermented and unfermented wine by the word wine… Read more »
Thanks David, I have read much about the different kinds of wine in the Bible, and on the topic in general. Even the explanations by total abstainers on passages like Deut. 14:26, in which they talk about the Jews diluting their “strong drink” so as to make it less potent… leads me to being very comfortable with my position of encouraging people to not drink, while not saying those who do are sinning. I have no differing opinions with CB’s arguments. And I in fact reject the idea put forward by some advocates of moderation that some social or evangelism… Read more »