I have been sharing with you my thoughts on Theology in a system I call “Woven Theology”. The thoughts aren’t new, I am sure that they have been thought and spoken before, my goal is to place them all into order and structure. I have found that the existing theological systems have become so clouded they have stopped conveying a clear idea. There are varying degrees of Calvinism and Armenianism where those systems have stopped having meaning. You can’t tell someone’s theology by the word “Protestant” or “Calvinist” or even “Baptist”. My aim is to communicate my theology clearly, and receive your feedback.
In my previous posts, No More C Word, and Woven Evangelist, I have gone over some of my thoughts on how this system works. The main tenant is that God is an eternal being, who exists outside of time/space and is completely sovereign. As God holds the universe together and directs each action, He also interacts with us temporally, in a way that we can experience Him and know Him. Simply put, God comes to us in a way that we can relate and interact with Him. He has discussions with us, He relates to us, even places in scripture where He changes His mind based on our pleading (Gen 18:22-33, Exodus 32:14, 2 Kings 20:5-6). We know that God does not change, so these actions are done in relationship, and for our benefit.
This relational aspect of God’s character, this temporal part of who God is takes the most radical step in establishing relationship. He empties Himself of divinity, takes the form of a servant and becomes obedient to death on a cross. God becomes man in the person of Jesus Christ. God then experiences those things in this aspect of His nature that His eternal nature doesn’t experience. The Father in His glory does not experience want or need. The Father is not subject to anything, but the Son was submissive to the Father, and learns obedience (Philippians 2:6-8, Hebrews 5:8).
In these two persons of the Trinity, we relate to a God who knows, sees and understands all things through time and space through God who experienced life as a man, who was tempted yet did not sin, who experienced want and need, who suffered and experienced pain and struggle and death. No other religion can speak of a God who experienced life as a man, yet remained fully God. The temporal nature of God can relate to us in every possible way through the person of Jesus Christ.
Hi Dan,
I have been reading along with your “woven” ideas. I will make one suggestion. You don’t want to say that Jesus “emptied himself of his divinity.” If that is the case, he is no longer God. You may want to say that he “made himself nothing” (other translation) or “emptied himself by taking on human flesh.” His is a case of “subtraction by addition.” I’m not trying to be critical, just trying to be helpful.
Jim G.
I was thinking maybe Dan meant that Our Lord ‘humbled Himself’ for our sake. But the way Dan wrote it, I can see your point . . . he needs to ‘clarify’ a bit, and Jim G., I remember when you noticed something I wrote and pointed it out to me some time ago, and I ‘clarified’ it after you pointed it out. I was grateful for your assistance then. 🙂 It is so hard for people to write about the nature of God, as ‘Holy Trinity’, and certainly it is difficult for people to write about the great mystery… Read more »
Thanks for the encouraging words, Christiane. It is difficult sometimes to navigate between the ditches of heterodoxy. I guess I have been doing it for a while and have seen where some of the historical pitfalls lie. The “emptied himself” is the position of the nineteenth-century kenotic theologians that was countered by the Princeton thinkers (notably Charles Hodge). I don’t think Hodge’s answer (veiling his attributes of infinity) was satisfactory, either. Subtracting by adding seems to work best in preserving his full deity while not sacrificing any of his humanity.
Jim G.
Thanks for the feedback Jim!
If Dan Barnes starts a theological movement, we all have reason to hope for the apocalyse!!!
Thanks Dave.
Always trying to encourage!
Hi Dan, I am rereading your post. I have some other potential suggestions where you can refine your ideas. I’m taking Christiane’s advice, but trying to do so in a way where we can all grow from it. I think it would be good to clarify what you mean by God being “completely sovereign.” Do you mean that he controls everything that occurs or do you mean that there is nothing outside of what he allows? These are two divergent paths that both appeal to the idea of sovereignty. It also might be helpful to begin with saying God is… Read more »