I think alliteration is silly…except when I use it.
The lawsuit against LifeWay over Glorieta (the sale of which was over four years ago) continues to hang by a thread. It’s like the wierd uncle that won’t go away. The underlying issue is a complaint about compensation of one couple who had a house on camp property, a land lease renewed annually. For those who complain about fair market value not being offered to the few dozen who were in this situation, exactly what would the fair market value of your house be if you did not own the land it sits on? Not a whole lot if the landowner could order you off of their property.
The above hasn’t stopped one SBC blog from touting the lawsuit. The latest is an “open letter” from the plaintiff, one in which he repeatedly refers to himself in the third person. Odd.
And while in the neighborhood, what’s with the same blog and the rambling, disjointed conspiratorial 6,000 word novella about…well, something really seriously doggone bad going on in the SBC? Like I said, there’s always a market for anti-SBC stuff especially if it involves Calvinists. My friends over there must have exhausted their supply of tinfoil hats by now. Time to reorder from goofball.com in time for next year’s nonsense.
Needless to say, the Pressler civil lawsuit should be in the top ten stories of the year. Baptist Press reported on it.
The Johnson Amendment stays, I read. Nothing in the tax bill removing the restriction on 501(c)3 exempt organizations, most churches, from engaging in political activity. Not that such is a good idea but some of the brethren think the country can be saved by politics.
Did you miss it? The article, “Try this weird trick and your dead church will take off like a rocket?” Yeah, I missed it too but seems like that title would fit many of the latest and greatest, top-down church growth articles coming from various denominational organizations.
I suppose the reporting on the Blue Ribbon Evangelism Task Force, composed of 19 Southern Baptist men, all experts in the field, is about right. OK, I’m open to it being explained how things can be fixed. Witness more? Set baptism goals? Try this weird evangelism trick?
Georgia Baptists have a sparkling HQ building that is debt free and worth, as one leader put it, $40-50 million. Now that Golden Gate sold their land overlooking the Pacific, no SBC entity has a surplus asset that is as valuable (unless IMB is still sitting on real estate in Hong Kong or Bangkok or somewhere). The GBMB has declared an intent to sell. What will my colleagues do with $50 million cash? I don’t know but we’ve got a committee thinking about it. The Florida Convention gave half of the proceeds from the sale of their building to the Cooperative Program. I’ll bet Georgia pecans (that’s ‘pea-CAHNS’ not ‘PEA-cans’) that we will not give $25 million away. A huge pool of money. A lot of financially hungry entities. Instant conflict.
A guy here referred to the Georgia Bulldogs as being big and slow. Come on bro’, you loose all street cred with that kind of nonsense. Everyone knows that the Big Ten is the conference with the lumbering tubs of lard, not the SEC. Nonetheless, I’m wary of the Sooners. They’re pretty good.
What brilliant, forward-looking, hipster pastor has cancelled their worship on Sunday, December 24th, Christmas Eve? That’s a big family or travel day, right? I don’t know of any but I’d bet you could find one. Odd how that last year, some wore the cancellation of worship on Sunday, Christmas Day, as a badge of honor. Try this weird trick: On the Lord’s Day gather and worship.
Who is the smartest person in any room with a bunch of SBC pastors and denominational folks? The guy who keeps his mouth shut until others are finished with their incessant verbal hemmorhages. Try that weird trick, brethren.
Got a ‘Merry Christmas” text message from a state convention staffer yesterday. I might be retired but not forgotten. Thanks.
Take the rest of the week off, brethren. Have a nice Christmas.
Brother Thornton,
Golden Gate Seminary was located on Strawberry Hill which overlooked Richardson Bay. Richardson Bay is flanked by Mill Valley, Tiburon and Belvedere. It is part of the larger San Francisco Bay. It did not overlook the Pacific but was a perfect spot to admire the Bay, nearby Angel Island(the Ellis Island of the West Coast) and the City.
On another note I think the Evangelism Task Force has reinforced a problem related to our SBC shortfalls in evangelism by not having any lay members. If I missed one then please correct me. By having only pastors and seminary professors it reinforces the view that sharing the gospel is a job for the pros and not the lay members. The lack of any women helps emphasize that it is a man’s job but Timothy and Aquila would certainly disagree. Then the lack of anyone who is not a Caucasian is a glaring omission. We await their professional, manly and white opinion on correcting course in the SBC.
Thanks for the clarification on the site of GG. I’ve never been there. I guess the idea on the evang TF was to put ‘experts’ on it from the seminaries, etc. I’ve never seen Gaines or anyone attempt to explain it otherwise.
Just wondering if there was ever a thought, or a discussion, about leasing the land that was so valuable instead of selling it. Land is only going up in value, certainly in San Fran, but also overseas and probably in the Georgia case as well. Curious as to whether businessman (within the SBC) who have a knack for making money were even considered being consulted versus simply selling off land that has probably increased tenfold since it was sold.
I don’t get the impulse of people who ALWAYS think they know better than those who make the decision and cast suspicion on every decision made.
I’m guessing many options were discussed.
Second-guessers are, I guess, inevitable in an organization like the SBC. I’m sure it doesn’t make it any less annoying.
I wasn’t second guessing Dave. I said, “I wondered.” Didn’t realize curious questions were second-guessing. If these kind of discussions happened, which they probably did, I was curious as to what the thought process was. William seems to know these things, so I didn’t think the question was out-of-bounds.
The question isn’t out of bounds, but it is also part of a pattern, isn’t it?
With the constant stream of black helicopter, tinfoil hat vitriol coming out of SBC Today, I’m growing weary of it all.
Since I don’t follow SBC Today, I guess I missed the memo.. 🙂 Again, I figured William might have some insight and I thought it was a pretty honest and straight-forward question.
Have a Merry Christmas Dave! (No innuendos on that statement, just a well-wish).. 🙂
Well, two points on the plus side for you!!
Sorry if I was grumpy. All the garbage they’ve been flushing…
It is incredible to see SBCToday calling out the fictional moral failings of Russ Moore and Al Mohler while having been in the tank for folks like Caner and Trump.
Bill Mac,
The post on the “deep state” reminds me of Info Wars. I kept expecting something about chem trails and the world bank. I think Alex Jones is writing over there now.
I was also laughing heartily as their favorite whipping boys were taken to task for having friends and professional relationships with people they may not agree with theologically (perish the thought of being light to the world…) while having seen multiple defenses of Trump and Roy and Caner.
It’s a sad day, but it IS good for a laugh every now and then.
You don’t even have to go as far into crazytown as InfoWars. Fox News has become the Pravda of the Trump administration. It would be laughable if it wasn’t the primary news source of evangelicals. It’s no wonder parts of the SBC are swirling around the drain with them.
William, I’m going to overlook the insult to the Big 10.
However, if after the bowl season the Big 10 has proven you wrong, I intend to devastate you with withering ridicule.
It is true, though, that Big 10 players are sometimes hampered because they actually have to attend class – not like SEC Football players or North Carolina basketball players.
Not sure the SEC has much this year apart from the two teams in the playoff. For you, though, I will be appropriately humble and contrite if necessary.
I don’t know anything about the GG property sale other than what was said. Everyone has known it was a valuable parcel for a long time. I’m sure they had smart people on it.
Plenty of info is available from Baptist Press. We were blessed to be close to Golden Gate and they served us when we were without a pastor. They had a vaulable property that needed to be renovated. They did not have the funds to do so. They tried for years to get Marin County approval to develop a parcel of their land to generate funds for a campus renovation. They kept hitting a brick wall.
They then came to the realization that their mission was not to hold onto this land but to equip people for ministry. This was an ah-ha moment after much prayer and their eyes were opened. A buyer was found for the Marin campus and the price tag would allow them to establish a new main campus in SoCal, a branch in NorCal and have a significant new endowment. The building approvals would be the new owner’s headache in the future.
Due to the earlier economic downturn a finished office building, land and another building waiting to be finished inside was available in the far more populous and in CA numbers more affordable area of the Inland Empire of Southern California. They decided that the NorCal satellite should be close to the center of population, have good public access and close to the three aiprorts and main highways. They were basically looking in the Fremont area. This would not be an insignificant investment. Then a pastor called Dr Iorg. His church was located where the seminary wanted to be and the dwindling congregation had decided to gift it to Golden Gate for use as they saw fit. How does that happen without the Lord?
Notice that once they began to focus on their mission that the Lord began to open doors across the state for them? Clearly Dr Iorg was a leader in this huge change but from a short distance it looks to me that the Trustee system by which all SBC institutions are managed worked well. The SBC now has a main seminary campus in population rich and diverse Southern California, a new branch campus in NorCal in an area with a large population of people from both South and Central Asia. Gateway also has a healthy endowment for the future.
I’ll say up front that I’m a former glorieta summer staffer. I have followed this story since the sale of the property. I don’t think the Tompkins have much to stand on legally. However, the question I have never been able to get an answer for is this: why didn’t lifeway at least attempt to protect the properties where the homes were built?? Camp Eagle/ Glorieta 2.0 (the purchaser) isn’t coming anywhere close to using all the property formerly owned by lifeway, especially the streets where these homes are located. And they never will. Lifeway knew this was going to be a sticky issue with many. There’s no way camp eagle would have walked away for the purchase if lifeway insisted on this. The fact that lifeway wouldn’t at least make this attempt (and if they did it would have been public by now) to show compassion to families like the Tompkins is troubling. If lifeway made a legit attempt to do this, please someone tell us.
About alliterated sermons–Adrian Rogers often alliterated his sermons, and it worked out well for him. I like to alliterate, assuming it can be done naturally without using obscure words. I believe it helps folks remember the sermon. I know some of the young preachers dislike alliteration, but the psalmist who wrote Psalm 119 embraced it.
Louis Cook has provided good information about the sale of the Golden Gate Seminary property. I heard Dr. Jeff Iorg, the president of GGBTS, explain this. Basically, the local Home Owners Association and the county planning commission harassed and blocked any campus improvements that the seminary needed/wanted. After struggling with those entities for years the seminary administration recommended and the trustees approved the decision to sell the property. Actually, the many governmental restrictions on the property’s use reduced its value considerably. Because Golden Gate Seminary already had more students at its southern California campus, the move to Ontario, on the east side of the Los Angeles area, made good sense. Here is a delicious irony–after the seminary sold the property, the Home Owners Association came to Dr. Iorg and begged that the seminary stay. Why not lease the property? See above. The HOA and the county’s restrictions would have made that impossible.
Mark: “About alliterated sermons–Adrian Rogers often alliterated his sermons, and it worked out well for him. I like to alliterate, assuming it can be done naturally without using obscure words. I believe it helps folks remember the sermon. I know some of the young preachers dislike alliteration, but the psalmist who wrote Psalm 119 embraced it.”
I have been young and now am old, and have never been a fan of alliterated sermons. This is something that is well done by some — I’d say Adrian Rogers was a master of it, and David Jeremiah seems to get along pretty well with it — but when not so well done it seems contrived and phony. Probably a lot of that because of odd and obscure words chosen for alliteration over clear and apparent words chosen for meaning.
On alliterated sermons – I’m of the opinion that those who can – do and like it… those who can’t don’t and don’t like it. I find it quite easy to alliterate but would and do listen to others of different style and find many reasons to be thankful. Then again — I’ve heard bad on both end also.
Looks like Rick doesn’t like your Glorieta comments. Go figure.
William, the property in Hong Kong and Bangkok was sold years ago. If there is expensive property still owned by the IMB in other counties, it is because it was purchased years ago when it was inexpensive and is being used today for the purpose it was bought and would be economically unfeasible to sell it. We drained the bank before the VRI option was used.
The Johnson Amendment brouhaha was much to do about nothing. The Johnson Amendment protects churches. Churches need not fear losing their tax exemptions for taking any stand they wish on moral or social issues related to political decisions. Churches are even free to endorse any political candidate they want. They just cannot use tax exempt money to do that. Free speech is a First Amendment right. It was embarrassing to see many SBC leaders standing by Trump when he signed that executive order and falsely claimed it would do away with the Johnson Amendment. The House had a clause defunding the enforcement of the Johnson amendment in the tax bill, but it was taken out before passage.
Dave Miller offers good advice on the Pressler lawsuit. It is best to wait and let the issue play out before making judgments. This is a sad situation no matter how you look at it.
On a related matter, I saw in one of the articles about the lawsuit a picture of a stained-glass window at SWBTS picturing Pressler and his wife. I was at SWBTS this week and went by to see the restored Lottie Moon home and the Walk of Martyrs. Some of my friends were listed on the Walk of Martyrs and I had visited Lottie’s home in Ping Du years ago, so I was interested in seeing them. I wandered over to the auditorium to see what was up with the stained glass. I am used to seeing stained glass in churches depicting scenes from the Bible. This reminded me of when I visited the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown. There was an array of Conservative Resurgence heroes. Dr. and Mrs. Patterson were prominently displayed as well as many of the recent SBC presidents. They even had a window for Barry McCarty. I guess parliamentarians rank up there with theologians. Maybe I am showing my bias, but it seemed in poor taste and very self-serving. The stained glass was not of high quality, so I hope they didn’t pay a lot for it.
Ron West said:
“Maybe I am showing my bias…”
Gee, ya think????
Lol.
I would respond, Ron, but I know it does no good with you.
I think that was a bit of a cheap shot – though I don’t know if I am a huge fan of the stained glass thing anyway.
Guess William decided to take his comment down.
I agree with your measured opinion, Ron.
Thank you William for your measured response to my measured opinion. Your first response may have been too unmeasured for some.
Dave, I am not sure why you would not respond and why it would do no good. Where is the cheap shot. I just think t is in poor taste to fill a worship center a SBC entity with stained glass windows in praise of men when I am not sure what the criteria is. You and William seem to have mixed feelings about it also. The pictures of former presidents in the main building is understandable and has been done for years. I am just unsure of this.
By the way, the recreation Lottie Moon’s home and accompanying historical presentations are excellent. I hope all will go by and see them if you have the opportunity.
I got to visit the new missions building at Southwestern Seminary recently. It both beautiful and functional. The Lottie Moon display is great. For me the most meaningful feature of the building is the Martyrs’ Walk. There are covered walkways on two sides of the building. Stones with brass plaques commemorate Southwestern alumni who died while on foreign missions service. A few of these I knew; some I had read about; and all deserve our respect.