I made the assertion in a previous post, based on solid information that has been given to me, that there have been no minority interviews in the hiring processes at our entities. I asked, even begged for information to correct that. If one of the search teams has interviewed a minority, I would love to be corrected and will publicly and loudly publish that correction. To this point, I have received no such corrections.
So, assuming that there have been minority applicants (there have – qualified ones) and that these minority applicants have not gotten through the vetting process to the interview stage, the obvious question is why that is the case. Andy Williams asked such a question in the comment section of that previous article and I ignored it, not intentionally, I just tend to move on pretty quickly and I didn’t see it until this morning. In addition to being a pretty good crooner, Andy asked a good question. I answered him, then thought perhaps my answer my make a good post. Permit me to rephrase the question.
Can we simply blame racist Baptists for the fact that no minorities have received interviews at our entities?
Questions and Answers
The answer to that is complicated – no simple yes or no will suffice. Here is my take.
- Are our search committees populated by racists who have determined to fill our entities with white leaders and exclude minorities from the process?
Absolutely not. I only know one of the leaders personally (having met Steve Swofford and sat next to him at a lengthy meeting after the 2017 Pastors’ Conference). If I still had a spleen, I would wager it that Steve is not a racist and that he is grieved that all of this focus over race has come to his committee. There are two minority members of his search team. NO, the search teams at our 5 open entities are not racist in makeup or intent.
- Do the process and the outcome APPEAR to be racist, or at least racially unfair to the minority communities of the SBC?
I have tried to assure minority Southern Baptists that we are making progress and that the intent of people on committees is not to exclude Black Southern Baptists or other minorities from the hiring process. But when we have 5 openings and to this point, not a single minority candidate has even gotten an interview, my words start ringing hollow. Thank God for JD Greear and his appointments. But then, people have complained loudly about his diverse appointments, so what does that communicate?
Again, I do not believe racism is in the hearts of all these people making the decisions, but the effect is hard to explain to minority communities in the SBC.
- Can we do better?
We have to!
Every estimate I have seen says that the USA will be “majority minority” within 30 to 50 years. If the SBC doesn’t become a more welcoming place for minorities – including them not only in our fellowship but also in our leadership, we will have no hope of reversing the slow statistical march to death we are on.
The future of the SBC MUST be as a multicultural and multiethnic denomination, or it will be as a small, regional, and insignificant (once great) convention.
Why are we where we are?
If it isn’t racism, what is it? I would make 3 suggestions.
1. The “Good Old Boy Network” is prominent in selecting new leaders.
We choose the leaders we know and are comfortable with, and those are white men (from that small circle of megachurches or from SBC academia). This does not come from an exclusionary heart.
You tend to choose those you know (and trust) for positions of power and influence. And, not to ignore the elephant in the room, power and influence are brought to bear on people to choose those “Good old boys” for those positions.
What is the solution to this? The “JD Greear approach” is probably best. Though there has been a hue and cry from some circles about his diverse appointments, he is getting new blood and fresh faces into trustee circles. If we keep doing this for about 6 to 8 years, the good old boy network will be made ineffectual and the next time there are openings, the search teams, made up of a new batch of trustees, will be more open.
It is a slow solution, but the SBC bylaws only allow for glacial coup d’etat by the election of new trustees. If we want change we have to be patient and consistent in elections at the Annual Meeting.
2. The Black Quarterback Syndrome
I am older than most of you and can remember when there was a quiet assumption among many that Black quarterbacks didn’t have what it took to play in the NFL. Of course, over time they have proven this wrong, but why would an eventual Hall of Fame QB like Warren Moon have to spend years in the Canadian Football League before he got a chance?
I hear statements that on the face of them seem to be reasonable.
Let’s ignore race and just pick the best man for the job.
God only made one race, not many. We should stop promoting racial differences.
I considered it an odd irony that in a previous article I wrote, I promoted the consideration of minority candidates for the leadership positions in the SBC and was roundly labeled a racist in the attack-drone circles of social media. Oh well.
The fact is that when we ignore race, we have a 180-year history of picking 100% white leaders in our entities. If we want to change that history and prepare for a denominational future that is more than just looking back on the good old days, we need to make racial inclusion a priority.
But we have an assumption that when we include minority candidates we must be using “affirmative action” – lowering the standards to pick minorities instead of choosing the more qualified white candidates – it is what I call “Black Quarterback Syndrome.” I have seen question after question that says essentially the same thing.
Should we ignore more-qualified white candidates to choose a minority candidate?
First of all, that assumes that the qualifications are so clear that we can rank the candidates in an objective order. Puh-leeese! The committees’ have such loose bases upon which they choose that ranking candidates is an exercise in more subjectivity! And the idea that there are always 5 or more white candidates more qualified for interviews than the best minority candidate – can we see how that might be offensive to our minority communities?
There are qualified minority candidates. I can name them, but would rather the discussion not be about X or Y or Z, but more theoretical.
3. The elevation of social and cultural norms.
Pardon me whilst I offend, okay?
We have elevated cultural, political, and social preferences as theological norms in conservative America. I am a pretty conservative guy – probably too conservative for my own good. But I’ve been called a liberal about 2372 times because I do not fully support the policies of Donald Trump. Not just a political liberal – my Christianity and my theology has been called into question. We are at the point where we (all too often) equate the GOP political platform with biblical fidelity.
And minority communities come from a different cultural milieu. They do not see the world through the same social and political eyes we do.
- When we talk about the greatness of America in the 50s and 60s, Black Americans may sometimes roll their eyes. They were on the other end of segregation and systemic oppression, so they may not view those times with quite the idyllic zeal we do.
- We view abortion as the single great moral issue of our day. But many Black Baptists would say that while they agree with us that abortion is heinous, the dehumanization and degradation of racism grow on the same tree as the dehumanization and degradation of abortion. If we are truly pro-life we must be both anti-abortion and anti-racism. It is not that they are pro-abortion, but that they see racism as a sin of equally or near-equally heinous effect.
- Many white Christians view voting Democrat as a denial of the faith (see the abortion discussion above). Many black Christians are willing to vote with the Democratic party because they see the GOP as hypocrites on abortion and as suspicious on racism.
- Many white Baptists view Donald Trump as a gift from God to save America. Most black Christians have…uh…um…well…let’s say a different view of President Trump.
None of these things touches fundamental doctrine, but we tend to treat them as if they do. So, when we discuss including minorities, some panic because we are afraid that they will compromise.
When Baptist Press published its article on the appointment of Curtis Woods as chair of the Resolutions Committee and Keith Whitfield as his vice-chair, there was a comment on the article on Facebook, bemoaning the danger of doctrinal drift. No one questioned whether Keith was going to lead us astray, but the appointment of a Black man as chair brought out immediate fear of doctrinal drift. Dr. Woods is a solid man who holds to the BF&M, so what reason could we have to question his doctrinal fidelity? He works at the Kentucky Convention – hardly a liberal bastion. Why the panic? Because appointing a black man takes us out of our comfort zone.
Is that racism? Probably not. But it reveals racial issues that we need to continue to fight until we no longer need to fight them!
I don’t know if we have run the course on this discussion, perhaps we have.
If people do want to discuss here, I wish they would stick to the issues of the post – why is it that minorities are not getting interviews.
If you want to excoriate me for reporting that fact, I am comfortably uncomfortable with reporting it, but you can complain as others did on the previous post. Let’s not continue that here.
And if you want to renew the “let’s pick the best man” arguments, you will only raise my blood pressure. Really, haven’t we trotted those tired chestnuts out enough?
I would like, as much as I am able, to get us to focus on the issue of why we are not interviewing minorities.
I contacted Danny Roberts of the SWBTS Search Team and asked him to confirm or deny the information I’d received related to the search process. Here is the response I received from him. He asked that I publish it in full:
Southwestern Seminary is committed to racial and ethnic unity as an essential result of the Gospel’s power. Southwestern also believes that racial, ethnic and cultural diversity was first authored by God and that these differences are celebrated and cherished within God’s Word. The seminary is blessed with a racially and culturally diverse faculty, staff, student body, alumni, and Board of Trustees who joyfully serve the racially and culturally diverse churches of the SBC. Since it’s formation, Southwestern Seminary’s Presidential Search Committee has been determined to make decisions that support and foster the diversity of the seminary community and its steadfast, biblical commitments to racial and cultural diversity and unity. Furthermore, in its deliberations, the Presidential Search Committee has fully supported the desire of the churches of the SBC to increase diversity within the denominations leadership positions. Such an increase, the Committee believes, would only serve to reflect the diversity already represented in the churches of the SBC. Towards these ends, the Presidential Search Committee openly welcomed nominations from all churches of the SBC and, in addition, personally invited racially and culturally diverse candidates to apply. Once nominations were received, the committee began to prayerfully assess candidates, never losing sight of the Seminary’s mission, treating all candidates with equity, and constantly protecting the integrity of the search process. The Committee’s work is not done. The Presidential Search Committee covets every Southern Baptist’s prayers as we seek God to determine whom He has called to be the next President of Southwestern Seminary.
Danny Roberts
I cannot fault the statement from the SWBTS search team. I can’t see how they could respond otherwise.
Dave in my experience which is very little I am only 36 i have pastored in two locations. One in which there was a large African-American Population and another in which outside of maybe five people the population is all white caucasion. I have seen problems in both places with the issue of race. I am speaking specifically of people within the church.
1. In the town with a large population of African Americans the mindset was by both ethnicities was that whites had there church and the blacks had theres as well. The blacks were not to attend white churches and whites were not to attend black churches. Both mindsets were wrong but were so ingrained in the mindset I made a few enemies along the way fighting this mindset. Whether we realize it or not we sometimes have a mindset that they belong there and we belong here.
2. In the town where there is no African American population they have and out of sight out of mind mindset. I would not call them racist by anymeans but they cannot even begin to understand what it is like being and African American or any other minority. They can also get somewhat of a hostile mindset due to much of the media coverage of riots and so forth. This is not an ok mindset either and many in the SBC I do not believe they understand the plight of African Americans in our country nor in our convention. I would not call this racism but maybe a continued ignorance due to lack of exposure to minorities.
I do think that as a convention we need to make strides to defeat these mindsets and I think this may be what some of our committees are dealing with as well. I cringe when I hear the word racist tossed around by believers at believers. I think it is ungodly but we do need to retrain the way we think about minorities in general in our churches and denomination.
Anyway I am done with my ramblings.
Interesting thoughts – ignorance more than racism.
How many black churches are under the SBC umbrella? How many of the black churches are truly associated with the SBC as their first and only organization? How many black Pastors lead a mostly “white” church and how many white Pastors lead a mostly minority church? When will the Spanish speaking services offered at many churches disappear , if ever? If the SBC wants to be bold and do more than talk, have several medium to large churches in large metro areas have the largest minority church take over leadership and pool resources with the head Pastor a minority.
I have attended many a funeral , weddings and other social events at black churches and while I am more at home with the message, songs and belief of the “black” church than most mainline churches, there is a difference in services based on cultural and social experiences. I make no value judgement and hope I am clear enough on my point, my traditional SBC church is more reserved is one way to put it or the black church are more open to showing their faith .
So black leaders of a mostly white organization may bring more black laymen or it may not. What is the goal? The goal is to preach the gospel . I guess the devil is the details.
:Picked based on the total package including an appreciation that we must be committed to spreading the Gospel to all
I am really not sure what you are recommending, but we don’t have the power to make autonomous churches do things.
How about this idea, the SBC “merge” with the National Baptist Convention and give a large portion of the leadership positions to the leaders of the National Baptist Convention. Perhaps black Christians do not wish to be a part of the SBC any more than the many in the SBC would not want to join the National Baptist Convention. Is that racist?
The title of the article is like the old “Are you still beating your wife” updated to “are you still beating your wife or did she just stop reporting it”. There are not many blacks in the churches in Iowa, is that because of racism? Are there more qualified black leaders in the National Baptist Convention than the SBC? I would say so , so use that and the many other fine black evangelical churches to draw from to fill the positions if the SBC talent pool is too shallow. That is where I was trying to go.
I rarely comment here, but since this is relates to what I do, I’ll indulge. I think your first point really arrives at the crux of the matter. We tend to select those we know or whom have a background we relate to. There’s not enough relationships built across racial lines, especially in the area of pastoral leaders, to establish the trust needed to feel comfortable selecting someone different from those chosen in the past. When our leaders set the example, as I believe JD Greear is doing, only then will we see more racial diversity in leadership positions at SBC Entities. Pastors and other leaders of predominately white churches need to become more intentional about building relationships with ethnic churches in their area, seeing them as equals. Until those relationships are built and trust comes as a result, I doubt things will change much at all.
My take as well, the good ol’ boy network is still strong. And I know it’s not like when we elect an SBC President, but in the influence of the megas as far as where we look weighs in as well
Just for the record, I didn’t respond to my own comment…. :).
Or did I? ;).
Appears the answer to the headline question is, “No.”
http://kentuckytoday.com/stories/so-baptist-committee-actively-seeking-non-anglo-presidential-candidates,17650?preview_key=b9b027c6849c1cd2a5ae53ad64ebbbd1&ts=1549571935
Hadn’t seen that. Good to see they are responding.
Respectfully Dave, that’s called a ‘correction’ as you put it. So, ………
It really isn’t. No minority interviews.
But we won’t argue about it.
Is the interview process finished. It is my understanding no one will be presented at the next meeting. This is a question not a statement
No one knows for sure
If we have no knowledge that the interview process has concluded perhaps this discussion should be postponed until we know…just my opinion of course. Thats for letting me comment…Blessings my brother
For the second time in less than a year an SBC committee has been charged publicly of at worst being racist and at best not caring about diversity in the SBC. In both cases it has proven to be an undounded accusation. The two African-American members on the EC search committee, “expressed a ‘100% confidence level’ that our process has been Christ-honoring regarding the question of ethnic diversity.”
I read an accusation that this search committee is choosing candidates based on their color as well as ability.
I would like to apologize to the EC search committee for such hurtful comments that some Southern Baptist have made. Thank you Brothers and Sisters for doing this job for us. I give you the assurance that I have prayed for and our other entities in the search process daily at 7:30 a.m. I anticipate with excitement your recommendation of our new EC president.
Amen
I amen your statement too, Dean.
DL!!!!!!! I’m so glad to see you back it’s been a while.
Yeah awhile. I retired for the third time, had couple heart attacks but feeling great.
Of course, I think that is a tremendously unfair analysis of the situation.
Speaking out to advocate racial inclusion is not allowed?
People are very hypocritical about this. Speaking out about things they support is heroic but when we speak in areas where they disagree, or where their buddies are involved, it is wicked.
Racial inclusion is a value I support and will not be bullied into silence about it.
Sorry.
Dave, I have read a lot lately about 1st world problems. If you can read my comment and come to the conclusion I am trying to bully you into silence about racial inclusion then we have an example of 1st world persecution.
Every ounce of my desire is to have racial inclusion in leadership positions throughout the SBC. You and I are in agreement so I have no desire to see you silenced.
Bro, you have to remember it’s 2019, everything is racist now!
I have to be honest here and say I don’t put a lot of weight or credence on those who write as you have Ethan, and then do not sign your full name to take responsibility for this comment. It’s easy to say insulting thing and be anonymous.
Debbie, FYI, neither Ethan nor David are anonymous, though you may discredit whatever they say because of the use of a first name only. Generally, the drive-bys use multiple names and fake emails and are deleted as soon as that becomes evident.
William: You may know who they are but I do not nor does anyone reading know who they are. It’s the same as having an anonymous name. In fact, it’s still being anonymous.
Debbie, we have discussed our commenting rules. Not sure what we should be doing. We prefer people to use their full names, but at this point we have only required that people give us a real email.
That policy is CONSTANTLY under discussion.
This isn’t a challenge to comment rules. This is a challenge to stand by ones comments by giving a full name. Giving just a first name or a last name still gives people a false courage to say things that are ridiculous. And if one is going to say something ridiculous at least have the guts to stand by it fully by giving a full name. It is why I give my full name.
I am not new and only semi-anonymous. I have commented on SBC Voices every now and then for a while now. I do not put my last name cause if someone does not share your opinion, you attack them(not just you). So why identify myself if you’re just gong call me a racist/sexiest, which in-turn might hurt my reputation as a minister?
The reason why I posted my previous comment was that I think it hurts race relations when we assume racism in every situation. This ultimately will make it hard to identify true racism when it does present itself because people have cried wolf so many times. Maybe I should have explained myself like I am now, but I was busy and did not have the time.
How is it hurtful to expect that minority candidates will be interviewed or to question whether and why minority candidates have not been interviewed? The EC has not addressed that key issue. Looking at resumes and sending out questionnaires is insufficient. I don’t think it unreasonable to expect all of our search teams to interview non-anglo candidates as part of their process. And, IMO, whether or not there is minority representation on the search team or said minorities are satisfied with the process is irrelevant. I as a messenger (and I am not alone) am not satisfied with the process and this is not what the Convention has asked for or expects of its search teams. To call into question the process is not racist or calling others racist, it’s just being a good Baptist.
Todd, you and I are in agreement on most things and this one is no different. I believe we can and should question the process. However, on this site I read this comment concerning the EC search committee, “I think consciously or unconsciously the current candidates were chosen for their skin color as well as ability.” To choose a candidate because he is white and ignore candidate because he is not white is racism. Is this comment not charging the committee with racism?
I also read this comment, “It seems the history of the good-ole-boy club and/or the Mega-Church crowd who has control of virtually all top-tier positions, committees, etc. in the SBC echelon is the problem.” Does this quote not indicate the EC search committee is considering only the boys from the club and not interested in diversity?
As for as the minority members of the search committee, I believe they are more aware of what is going on in the search process and also have an interest in diversity.
I respect James Merritt immensely. Before his sermons were available at the click of a button I traveled around the country to listen to him speak. Vance Pitman is one of, if not the voice of Southern Baptist in Western United States. It used to be he was recognized as Bob Pitman’s son. Now Bob Pitman is recognized as Vance Pitman’s dad. He is great. I have nothing but respect for Bryan Wright. These three brothers in Christ wrote a letter questioning the process but having witnessed their behavior through they years, I know they didn’t question the character of the committee. I am grateful for their questioning the process. The unfair things said about this committee is what I addressed and I am proud I did so. These accusations are unfounded.
If my apology to the EC search committee for the hurtful things that have been said does not apply to you then ignore it, but don’t tell me I have attempted to silence anyone questioning our processes. I have not mischaracterized a thing. Our brothers and sisters on this committee has received some shabby treatment from some and that treatment has been ignored by others. This is not acceptable. There is enough hurt and pain in our lives without our brothers and sisters adding to it.
The Correction requested has certainly and clearly been offered:
The following is taken directly From the link referencing the statement from the EC trustee chair and the EC CEO search committee posted above….
These 2 statements are VERY relevant to public assumptions and discussions taking place:
“Email to full SBC Executive Committee from EC chairman Mike Stone:
“Members of the Executive Committee,
“Due to some recent online stories and related social media activity, the members of your presidential search team unanimously asked me to forward the following statement to you regarding our commitment to ethnic diversity in our presidential search. We are thankful for the privilege of serving you as we all seek the Lord’s guidance in these days. We appreciate your prayers.
“Mike Stone
“Chairman, Executive Committee”
Statement by the EC presidential search committee:
“When our board met on April 17, 2018, under challenging circumstances, you elected a diverse presidential search team. The search committee not only desired ethnic diversity in our process, we have actively pursued resumes from non-Anglo candidates.
“In a meeting of your search committee on February 4, 2019, the two African-American members you elected to the seven-member committee addressed the ethnic diversity in our process. Pastor Rolland Slade and Dr. Adron Robinson, Vice Chairman of the search committee, expressed a ‘100% confidence level’ that our process has been Christ-honoring regarding the question of ethnic diversity.
“Your search committee views every recommendation as a sacred trust from Southern Baptists and has given every candidate serious consideration. Every decision has been united and unanimous.
“We look forward to providing expanded details in our full committee report to you on February 18th in Nashville. While we will not have a nomination to share with you at that time, our goal of finding God’s man remains unchanged. We are grateful for your prayers for us.
“Respectfully,
“Steve Swofford, Chairman
“Adron Robinson, Vice Chairman
“Joe Knott
“Stephen Rummage
“Rolland Slade
“Mike Stone
“Carol Yarber””
Dave C: The “correction” as of now is just words until we see how they now will handle this. It’s not much of a correction. The words “God’s man” again. That bothers me to no end.
I am not equating the GOP platform with “Biblical fidelity”, however, there are significant policy differences when it comes to the issue of abortion and after the events of this past week, those differences are becoming more clear. The Republican Party has taken a definite Pro Life position (even though not all elected officials agree with it), yet the Democratic Party has not only reaffirmed its support of abortion, but in their 2016 Convention, they called for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment and for tax payer funded abortions though all nine months. To further their support, the NY State Legislature recently voted to allow abortions throughout the whole term of the pregnancy (with cheering by the legislators) and the Democrats in the State of Virginia attempted to do the same thing.
The current scandals of the VA elected officials all began because of a radio interview in which Governor Ralph Northam said he would be in favor of essentially infanticide. Some of his fellow classmen in Medical School were so appalled at the statement, they found and released the now famous picture of him. However, the calls for him to resign are not because of his support of infanticide, but instead because of a college picture of him in either black face or dressed as a Klansman.
I would have a hard time supporting anyone who was in a leadership position who supported elected officials who shared the views of Northam (and apparently a large number of Democrats) regardless of their race. In our American culture, acceptance and inclusion are now the ultimate values. The Christian community must be careful that we don’t make inclusion an end in itself, but rather a means to an end.
David: Again I have a hard time taking seriously comments that have one name as that is anonymous to the rest of us, but what has this got to do with interviewing or hiring of minorities? If you are saying no black, Hispanic etc. candidate would sign the BFM, I think you are horribly mistaken. I frankly am tired of reasons like this, it is unfair and a stereotype.
I am not saying that no black or Hispanic can be appointed. I’m not making a stereotype. If anything, I’m addressing a stereotype that the Republicans are a bunch of racists and the Democrats are not. I was addressing Dave’s argument when he made the point following: “We see abortion as the single great moral issue of our day..”
The whole situation in Virginia turns that argument on its head. There are significant policy differences between the two political parties particularly when it comes to abortion, and I have a hard time justifying the sentiments of many in the Evangelical community who were vocally supportive of Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election. Hillary’s candidacy was significant because it was the first time in our country’s history that a political party’s platform advocated for taxpayer funded abortions throughout the term of a pregnancy. Now, we see state legislatures controlled by Democrats voting for unrestricted abortion (and even after birth in the case of VA). By contrast, many Republican controlled legislatures have passed restrictions on abortion providers which have led to a reduction in the number of abortion clinics in their respective states.
I vote based on specific policy, not because of how I may feel personally about the personalities involved. The whole situation in Virginia shows that the Democratic Party has not only support for abortion, but has racists, too, when both the Governor and Attorney General had racist pictures exposed. This calls into question the justification for supporting Democrats because the Republicans are a bunch of racists (and the Democrats are not).
Whether someone signs a document like BFM is not as important to me as their actions. In fact the Governor of VA is a member of a Baptist Church with an African American pastor. I’m afraid that there are so many who are so appalled by Donald Trump, that they will vote for candidates who will vote as the VA legislature attempted to do in this case, just to send a message of their outrage about Trump. George Will, a long time conservative columnist, advocated this in the Midterm elections. Now, we are seeing the policy consequences and I have a hard time supporting individuals regardless of their race, who act this way. Race doesn’t have anything to do with it.
I would really prefer not to have a political discussion.
My point was the difference in perspective in black and white Christians concerning political priorities.
White conservatives view abortion as above all issues, while many Blacks see racism as growing from the same root and being equal in evil.
I really don’t want a political food fight
I’ll not talk about racism, but I would to comment about the Church.
We want to see diversity in our denominational leadership because it is a more accurate picture of the Church – nationally and globally. It is a more accurate picture of a biblical future. Where are we going as a denomination if we are not yet aware of this? The global church is already not white in majority. Many are Southern Baptist if not by name, by practice. And they are from Africa, Asia and Latin America.
Some of us want diversity in the SBC because it is already the reality in our world and because it the future of the kingdom of God. “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, ‘Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!’” To get to that promised throne room, Southern Baptists institutions and churches can strategically, joyfully and expectantly position themselves to be part of the mission of God. Representatives of the Rev 7:9-10 crowd at the leadership level, is a good place to start.
Suzanne, a hearty AMEN to what you wrote.
I second Mark Terry’s amen and am so glad to see you and Amy Downey comment.
I’m going to answer you Dave with an illustration.
I grew up part of my life as a BMA pastor’s kid. The practice was to move to move up the 2nd VP up to 1st VP to President. There was an African-American who had done his due diligence and it was his turn to be president. Instead of voting him in, someone nominated a white pastor from the floor and he was elected. So, yes, to your question there is still racism.
Great thoughts, Dave! Thanks!
This is well laid out, Dave. You are more gracious in your wording than I am with this stuff. I think we will get there sooner rather than later though. Theses kinds of articles certainly catch their attention. Sometimes the comments do too.
Dave Miller,
You made a comment on the other post,”racism is alive and well in the SBC” . Now in this article it seems you are saying the leaders and appointees are not racist.
It would seem if we follow a common sense course that if there is racism at play in the choosing of leaders then the said racism would be racism within the leaders and appointees to committees. It certainly isn’t the rank and file church members and small/ medium church pastors making those decisions.
If you conclude that these said leaders are not acting on some form of racism then where did your previous remark come from?
Alan Davis
To say that racism exists and to say our leaders are racist are two different things.
To say there are cheaters in sports doesn’t mean all athletes are cheaters.
I have witnessed blatant racism, but not among our leaders.
So your past comment was pointed at rank and file SBC members then. Would you not say that those who use the black quarterback theory and the good old boy system leaving out minority’s is racist?!!
And you did say racism is alive and well in SBC…so if you say none of the leaders have a form of racism then what’s the point of the article??!! For the article you wrote asks that very question of the decision makers….
I submit if there is racism in the decisions of the committees it is THEIR RACISM.
It seems you want to hedge with the leaders and blame rank and file…
Dave, Thank you for your response to my question. (Which was really a re-wording if a question you asked in your first post, albeit rhetorically, but didn’t answer there).
In would say that your #2 The black Quarterback syndrome argument seems not to fit under the heading “If it isn’t racism, what is it?” That seems like the very definition of racism if I were to believe a black man is incapable of an intellectual leadership position BECAUSE he is black. I don’t know that including this point fits, especially when we start askin WHO in the current abc has that view of Black leaders, and if it is not those making leadership decisions, then why is it relevant to this discussion. If those making the decisions do not ascribe to the “black Quarterback” reasoning, how is the fact that “some others” do preventing minorities from being interviewed for positions?
But overall, In think this second post clarified your view more than the first post alone, so I thank you for that.
-Andy Williams (not the famous crooner, Though I do like to sing and play guitar)
Maybe it would serve us pastors ( im semi-retired) to ask how many minorities we have interviewed for openings at our churches. And don’t use that worn out response that are few minorities in our community. Look at Dave’s church right next to Souix City…surly there is a minority candidate available even there….a Grass Roots movement…
I just don’t know how realistic this is to the way things work.
When I was on staff at a church in a Small, 95% white, city about an hour from Louisville, we began a search for a staff (non-senior) pastor. Intersted candidates came mostly from SBTS, not from our Community. One of the people we did ask to follow up with was someone of Hispanic appearance. It didn’t work out, and we hired a white man for the position.
But I don’t think we can so easily dismiss the “few minorities in the community” reasons, as being just a smoke screen for Some great dereliction of duty. In our case, had we looked only in our community, we almost certainly would not have come across a non-white candidate.
I agree with you Andy. My Question is this. How many on here have minorities on their staff or deacon teams? How many pastors here have interviewed a minority for a staff position?
Very valid point, Alan
How many predominantly white churches in the SBC would call an African American or Latino pastor? How many white Southern Baptists belong to a church made up of a majority of minority group members? That may be a way of measuring the influence of racism, or of reticent racial prejudice that exists within the SBC. It’s there. Whether it is a factor in what is happening with the selection of new leadership is more a matter of perspective. Racism isn’t a major factor in what’s happening, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that it is not a factor at all.
The Southern Baptist Convention is a denomination with 15 million members in almost 50,000 churches. But in reality, the denominational structure, prone to backward and provincial thinking, is led by a very small, narrow group of individuals who connected themselves to a few influential kingmakers and bulldozers who spent the time and energy to change the scope of denominational leadership from another group of exclusive good ole boys who held power prior to 1979 to their own group. The structure not only permits this, but it was designed to do things this way. There have been a few, very few, individuals from outside the inner circle who have achieved leadership in any SBC entity and most of those got disgusted by the politics and what was required to avoid difficulty and left when the opportunity came around. The way the denomination does business creates a power structure of elites among a narrow circle of individuals who got themselves on trustee boards or the EC by using their influence with friends or associates who had the power to put them there. And if you take a look at who’s been hired in the past, that’s where virtually all of the executive leadership of SBC entities and institutions comes from.
Very few minorities have the connections. The few who have been there ran afoul of the movers and shakers when they voiced their own opinion and attempted to contribute from their own resource of expertise. The performance record of the entities and institutions is a demonstration of the fact that “the best man for the job” has rarely been hired.
I agree Lee.
However you describe the current conditions in the SBC … and the USA in general … It took a long, long time to get this way. The building of mindsets, traditions, thought processes, etc … and it’s going to take a long, long time to recognize and undo the parts that turned out wrong.
I know in my own case, my childhood formed certain reactions in me that I still battle, 70 years later. Thankfully I have won the battle, but that doesn’t mean I’ve lost that inner reaction to certain things. And I am not necessarily speaking of race there, either.
On the racial front, a lot of factors led to the tendency of blacks and whites to live in separate areas. The solution to the resulting separation of blacks & whites in schools was tackled by busing of students to schools further from their neighborhood, but racially diverse.
Guess what. It worked! And I believe it is going to take just such an overt plan to help overcome the racial tendencies in the SBC, such as overtly going after black (and native American, Asian, etc) prospects to fill those entity positions.
I don’t have any “tracts or charts or a book by Truett”* but IMHO the process of more inclusion must start in the local churches if we are going to have any meaningful change in the SBC. I’m not sure much will “trickle down”” to the churches just by hiring two or three ethnic leaders to head an entity. If that is inclusion then our concept is not Biblical and is mere tokenism. It will do little to nothing to bring meaningful equality. If however we have the proper perspective of the SBC and view the local church as the top rung of the latter, and seek to bring real equality there ,then it would more easily trickle down to the EC and other entities. Also it is my opinion, for which I have great respect**, that we have vested too much power and authority in the entity CEO’s. That is why the politics and the good ole boy clubs are an issue in the convention. Brethren and Sistren*** the entities serve the churches, the churches do not the entities. Also the entities serve at the pleasure of the churches, or at least they should. OK i got on my soapbox a little too much. My main point was to say, meaningful equality and inclusion must start at the local church level…again IMO.
* Anyone old enough to remember Dan McBride
** anyone old enough to remember Ron Dunn
*** William I didn’t even know this was a word until i may you
BTW I definitely believe there should be ethnic leadership elected to some of the open slots. I graduated SWBTS and it seems to me that an Hispanic American would be very advantageous to the school
Consider this possibility:
Those in a position to choose are not racists but one big reason good old boys keep getting the job is because of relationships and trust. And we can surmise that the lack of interaction between blacks and whites is due in a great part because of past racism.
Racism in the past kept blacks and whites separate in many ways. And thus this lack of interaction and thus the missing of any positive relationship contributes to the quandary we have now.
You want to be responsible by putting a good man in the job but the only good men you know aren’t dark skinned.
Let us pray for those choosing.